Who embodies your team at the moment

Waiting for people to arrive to play poker. If you could pick one player who embodies your team at the moment who would it be? I don't mean who your best player is. For example I could pick Richie not because he is a rugby legend but because he is ageing and we don't really know what the form is going to be this RC.

But I'll go for Dan Carter for similar reasons. At the top in his category but no one quite knows for how long and plenty of contenders. Doubtful for 2015 RWC but if he can play a part in the latter stages you wouldn't want to bet against him. Capable of mastery but also prone to breaking down occasionally, he represents NZ at the top of his game but his duff drop goals show we are capable of buckling under pressure.

Who would you choose and Kiwis feel free to pick your own.

No one for Wasps really since Lol and Fraser Waters.

Ashley Johnson and Joe Launchbury are tops for sheer effort. And Hugo Southwell is a very good captain on, and off the field.

We need an explanation sorry Hound. Why does your player (in the singular ) represent Wasps?

Ok kia, this is on the international board. Lol was a Wasp through and through. A one club man who helped build a winning ethos and never say die attitude to our team. Our greatest captain.

Waters was a defensive rock of a centre who gave his all, and also had an eye for the try line.

Others played their part in a club that won 8 trophies in 6 years, and who won 10 finsls on the trot. But those two were what it meant to be a Wasp back in the noughties.



Yup, I know that"s not singular, but both were equally importanr in our best years.

At this very moment?...Kieran Reia.. for these majestic comments after Conrad Smith's:

"You only have to look back to when they had Robbie Deans in his first test - they gave us a good touch-up," All Black centre Conrad Smith said.

"We have to expect the same. It brings a big fizz and it brings a whole new energy about it. They'll have the feeling they are going to create something new with a new coach so we've just got to expect that and deal with it."

Enter Read:
"You look at the Aussies and they've played some test matches at a very high intensity [against the Lions]. So you look at where they've come from and you have to think they will be pretty primed.

"Then the circumstances around the new coach will have them excited, and give them that little bit of extra confidence.

"Its our job to go over there and try and smack that out of them pretty early." While Australia became a bit of a known quantity during the Deans reign, the All Blacks coaching staff are wary of innovations McKenzie might bring.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/9027531/All-Blacks-aim-to-end-McKenzie-feel-good-factor


Love it!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Waiting for people to arrive to play poker. If you could pick one player who embodies your team at the moment who would it be? I don't mean who your best player is. For example I could pick Richie not because he is a rugby legend but because he is ageing and we don't really know what the form is going to be this RC.

But I'll go for Dan Carter for similar reasons. At the top in his category but no one quite knows for how long and plenty of contenders. Doubtful for 2015 RWC but if he can play a part in the latter stages you wouldn't want to bet against him. Capable of mastery but also prone to breaking down occasionally, he represents NZ at the top of his game but his duff drop goals show we are capable of buckling under pressure.

Who would you choose and Kiwis feel free to pick your own.

Kia, Are we allowed to pick players that dont come from Canterbury?

Richard Cockerill the dog.

Difficult to use only one person that embodies SA rugby, the reason for it is the two schools of thought.

Jean de Villiers emobies the ild school, bash them, thrash them and wanting to be a bit more expansive but don't really have the skill, then you get Willie le Roux, the new school, wants to run the ball, wants to be more creative and exciting.

The question is which will ultmiately be utilised by Heyneke Meyer.

Just noted that this is an International thread. As a player possibly Dan Cole as he's the only man not subject to real competition for his place.

On the coaching side of the team, probably Andy Farrell who specialises in attritional defence over strike play.

Katherine Jenkins has been the heart and soul of everything good in Welsh international rugby since 2004. Her intervention, singing the anthem, smiling from the stands, is what has turned rugby in Wales around.

Every player, coach, even fan plays their part harder, faster, better and with more intelligence, just on the off chance that Katherine might just smile in their direction.

I met her at a schools board meeting once, she smiled at me whilst we were introduced. It was like being kissed by angels.

Player wise...! Warburton or North are the most likely nominees I guess, they represent the new wave of young talented professionals representing Wales as a powerful dynamic team.

Though I would say Halfpenny is the life blood. Fearless defencively records, pace, guile accuracy..! He is an inspirational player that has already exceeded everyone's expectations and he is still young.

For England, I would say Brad Barritt: Articulate, well spoken, below world class and foreign.

For Ireland, I would say Simon Zebo: Good craic, top shagger, mediocre professional.

For Wales, I would say Sam Warburton: Mature, uber professional, maximising his talent.

For Scotland, I would say Sean Lamont: Big, powerful, poor game awareness.

I think Ryan Jones both for Wales and the Ospreys. Leads by example, a true proffesional who just loves rugby and wants to play no matter what position. He taken his knocks over the seasons both physically and verbally and has always bounced back! Don't think Wales will truly appreciate him until he retires and then it willbe too late.

Are England embodied by Ashton? A bit over rated, massively arrogant, will celebrate before they've a achieved anything and despite all the promise and hype, very seldom deliver?

Glorious, not sure thats England (although ask me again around 6 nations time lol) but you got Ashton of to a tee!!!!!

Matt Scott - hard working, passionate and talented with a lot of potential, but lacking in confidence and underrated by world rugby at large.

Scrumdown wrote:For England, I would say Brad Barritt: Articulate, well spoken, below world class and foreign.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Are England embodied by Ashton? A bit over rated, massively arrogant, will celebrate before they've a achieved anything and despite all the promise and hype, very seldom deliver?

The question was about YOUR side ladies. Still, it's nice that you care.

madmaccas wrote:Matt Scott - hard working, passionate and talented with a lot of potential, but lacking in confidence and underrated by world rugby at large.

I wouldn't say scotland are talented or particularly underrated. They haven't beaten Wales for example in nearly a decade!

Scrumdown wrote:

madmaccas wrote:Matt Scott - hard working, passionate and talented with a lot of potential, but lacking in confidence and underrated by world rugby at large.

I wouldn't say scotland are talented or particularly underrated.  They haven't beaten Wales for example in nearly a decade!

Since when was beating Wales a yardstick of rugby excellence?

You're truly a credit to your nation, scrumdown

Laurie of course you can pick a non Cantab.  

Here's another possibility. Conrad Smith. What is it that he does? He's not possessed of great size or great speed. But he does the basics very well and has a smart rugby brain knowing the right time to attack.

Cyril wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:For England, I would say Brad Barritt: Articulate, well spoken, below world class and foreign.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Are England embodied by Ashton? A bit over rated, massively arrogant, will celebrate before they've a achieved anything and despite all the promise and hype, very seldom deliver?

The question was about YOUR side ladies. Still, it's nice that you care.

England are one of my sides Cyril. I think of them as an errant child who desperately needs tough love.

Scrumdown wrote:

madmaccas wrote:Matt Scott - hard working, passionate and talented with a lot of potential, but lacking in confidence and underrated by world rugby at large.

I wouldn't say scotland are talented or particularly underrated.  They haven't beaten Wales for example in nearly a decade!

Nearly a decade? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/6347567.stm

For Wales I'd say Jamie Roberts. Currently peaking in age and performance, and oozing power and solidity (if you can ooze such things). Yet lack diversity and suffer when the occasion calls for variety or improvisation. Decent skills and composure compared with more extravagant skills and poorer composure of yesteryear. Absence in the team is not easily filled.

Ireland I'd say Heaslip, should have achieved far more in green, and too often lacking the physicality married with footballing skills when it counts. When on form, supremely talented and effective, but equally prone to being bullied when things do not go well. Like Wales, suffers also when replacement called upon.

Scotland, probably Johnnie Beattie. Good skills and the desire to play an offloading game, but not quite consistent enough to perform it successfully at the highest level. Also suffer from frequent selection and deselection, affording the players little chance to gel into a cohesive and familiar unit.

England, Owen Farrell. Power and strength from an early age is a given, as are solid rugby skills along with the confidence to propel them to victory. Beginning to attempt to play a more expansive game they perhaps don't have the skills for, and there's the sense positions and perhaps even personnel may change before the 2015 World Cup with a few competent rivals waiting in the wings. Could equally become world beaters.

Italy, Alberto Sgarbi. The first wave of a professional Italy, with aggressive defence and a desire to tackle all day. Will run hard and true with ball in hand but do not possess fine footballing skills to create opportunities, with attempts at offloading often leading to knock ons. Inexperienced at being in a winning position and holding a lead.

France, Maxime Medard. Fine club pedigree rarely transferred into the blue shirt for an international season. Regular promotion and demotion of players alongside make consistency an impossibility. Strong, fast, and skillful, possess all the attributes to be amongst the best in the world, yet questionable whether the motivation is there to transcend club and personal boundaries to realise the talent possessed.

Francois Louw - Not the worst player, in fact a very good one. But the fact that he will keep playing at the expense of fetcher, when the lack of one cost us the Rugby World Cup Quarter-final (and possibly the title given our recent record in NZ, and how tight NZ got) shows all of our qualities
Stubborness
Stupidity
Bash-em-up
Run-at-faces-not-spaces-ness

Keith Earls embodies Ireland- back in 2009 everyone thought our potential was sky high, that we could be world beaters, but we've never delivered on that promise. We seem to inexplicably lack confidence in basic parts of our game and yet when we click we can look very impressive in patches. However, once the confidence goes it goes and our rivals have far more polished all round games. We need the guidance of an excellent coach to bring out the great promise that is undoubtedly lurking behind our under-performance, improve many technical aspects of our game and exorcise some of the mental issues that are holding us back.

Cyril wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:

madmaccas wrote:Matt Scott - hard working, passionate and talented with a lot of potential, but lacking in confidence and underrated by world rugby at large.

I wouldn't say scotland are talented or particularly underrated.  They haven't beaten Wales for example in nearly a decade!

Since when was beating Wales a yardstick of rugby excellence?

You're truly a credit to your nation, scrumdown

Wales (population 3m) have hammered both England (population 55m) and Australia (population 23m) in their last two games so are a pretty good yardstick for any rugby nation especially Scotland (population 5m).

This is especially the case when you consider the fact that England and France are now selecting multi national teams as a result of their wealthy clubs ability to sign pacific islanders and south africans on lucrative 3 year residency deals.

Two words, one name
= Adam Jones
His pure presence on the pitch gives us more confidence because we can assure ourselves a good platform and set piece. He is also a top bloke and a really nice guy. He never down plays his opponents game or abilities even though it's clear that he can probably out scrummage anyone set against him. Shows how down to earth he is

Scrumdown wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:

madmaccas wrote:Matt Scott - hard working, passionate and talented with a lot of potential, but lacking in confidence and underrated by world rugby at large.

I wouldn't say scotland are talented or particularly underrated.  They haven't beaten Wales for example in nearly a decade!

Since when was beating Wales a yardstick of rugby excellence?

You're truly a credit to your nation, scrumdown

Wales (population 3m) have hammered both England (population 55m) and Australia (population 23m) in their last two games so are a pretty good yardstick for any rugby nation especially Scotland (population 5m).  

This is especially the case when you consider the fact that England and France are now selecting multi national teams as a result of their wealthy clubs ability to sign pacific islanders and south africans on lucrative 3 year residency deals.

 Don't remember Wales hammering Australia. I remember the British and Irish Lions (population 70 million) winning though.

Do you think the inherent lack of confidence that allows Wales to lose the close games on the big stage comes from this national small man syndrome you are illustrating?

For instance it can't be coincidence that Wales (population 3 million) haven't beaten NZ (population 3 million) for almost 6 decades when places such as Rhodesia have managed it! 

Even the Scott's managed a draw!

Jhamer25 wrote:Two words, one name
= Adam Jones
His pure presence on the pitch gives us more confidence because we can assure ourselves a good platform and set piece. He is also a top bloke and a really nice guy. He never down plays his opponents game or abilities even though it's clear that he can probably out scrummage anyone set against him. Shows how down to earth he is

Judging by some of the Welsh posters on here, being "down to earth" isn't a national quality   

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:

madmaccas wrote:Matt Scott - hard working, passionate and talented with a lot of potential, but lacking in confidence and underrated by world rugby at large.

I wouldn't say scotland are talented or particularly underrated.  They haven't beaten Wales for example in nearly a decade!

Since when was beating Wales a yardstick of rugby excellence?

You're truly a credit to your nation, scrumdown

Wales (population 3m) have hammered both England (population 55m) and Australia (population 23m) in their last two games so are a pretty good yardstick for any rugby nation especially Scotland (population 5m).  

This is especially the case when you consider the fact that England and France are now selecting multi national teams as a result of their wealthy clubs ability to sign pacific islanders and south africans on lucrative 3 year residency deals.

 Don't remember Wales hammering Australia. I remember the British and Irish Lions (population 70 million) winning though.

Do you think the inherent lack of confidence that allows Wales to lose the close games on the big stage comes from this national small man syndrome you are illustrating?

For instance it can't be coincidence that Wales (population 3 million) haven't beaten NZ (population 3 million) for almost 6 decades when places such as Rhodesia have managed it! 

Even the Scott's managed a draw!

New Zealand have an advantage in that the only game in town is rugby. They also effectively have first pick of samoan, fijian and tongan rugby talent. They draw their talent from a population size far larger than £3million!

Football is a strong competitor for sporting talent in wales.

Welsh winger Gareth Bale for example is set to be the most expensive player in the history of football. If he were born in auckland he'd probably now be playing full back for the all blacks.

If Dan Carter had been born in south wales, he may well have been recruited by the swansea city or cardiff city football academies.

The reason Wales lose to new sealand is that their basic skill levels are not as high - nothing to do with lack of confidence. But the gap is closing. The under 20's have been 3rd and 2nd in the last two world cups and have beaten both south africa and new zealand.

This really poor attempt at a debate is threatening to ruin a good idea for a thread.

Pay no heed to them. I really liked your effort miaow. Ka pai  

Leigh Halfpenny for Wales

Young, talented, trains stupidly hard and well disciplined - the characteristics of the new generation of Welsh talent (Warbs, North, Lydiate, Faletau). The best part is that the era of egos and arrogance is over.

Ryan Jones represents the old guard in the Welsh squad - the only ones good enough to still be around are the players that were determined to get better before Gatland's discipline and fitness - players who are incredibly passionate about playing for Wales and give 100% to keep up with the younger generation - Ryan Jones, AWJ, Adam, Gethin.


The Cardiff Blues seems to be embodies by Gavin Evans at the moment, passionate but completely outclassed by almost all opposition  . Amazing when we have Halfpenny, Warburton and Gethin in the squad.

Alex Corbisiero - clearly emblematic of England.
Powerful, talented, smart, really just coming into his own.
Overcame adversity, hard worker, role model for other players.
Class individual, modest to a fault.

Its not well known, but when he traveled to Argentina with the England squad before taking his rightful place with the Lions, he prevented another Falklands war by his sheer presence alone.  Documents liberated from the Argentine President's office reveal CFK (President Cristina Fernandes de Kirchner) as saying "Madre de Dios! If all Englishmen are like him, we are fooked".  She did go on to say something about inviting him over for dinner and a nightcap, however.

Yes, emblematic of England, Englishmen, and the England rugby squad.

Thats true doc he was certainly a 3rd tester that can put his hand up high...I made a point of watching a lot of the scrummaging afetr Gats comments...impressive alright.

...but he has come on fairly quickly doc...care to share?

You're not sending him any of those little post cards with those unusually raised Garfield and donald duck faces on them are you? ooops...

Scrumdown wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:

madmaccas wrote:Matt Scott - hard working, passionate and talented with a lot of potential, but lacking in confidence and underrated by world rugby at large.

I wouldn't say scotland are talented or particularly underrated.  They haven't beaten Wales for example in nearly a decade!

Since when was beating Wales a yardstick of rugby excellence?

You're truly a credit to your nation, scrumdown

Wales (population 3m) have hammered both England (population 55m) and Australia (population 23m) in their last two games so are a pretty good yardstick for any rugby nation especially Scotland (population 5m).  

This is especially the case when you consider the fact that England and France are now selecting multi national teams as a result of their wealthy clubs ability to sign pacific islanders and south africans on lucrative 3 year residency deals.

I can't remember Wales hammering the Aussies, never mind in recent memory.

Yes, they hammered England in one game. Well done

As soon as to start bringing population, money and 'nationality' into it you really are getting a bit desperate. If I was going down that route I'd say you poached most of your national side from England. Still, I wouldn't do that. It's a bit petty.

Mentioning recent results against England and Scotland (and, erroneously, Australia ) don't really set you up as the team to beat. It'll take a while for NZ and SA to sit up and listen.

Adam Jones
AWJ

Hard to split

McCaw (yawn). 102 from 116.

ps.Deaker on Sport doing a 1 hr special on Lomu this Wed (830), worth a watch maybe.

rainbow-warrior wrote:Adam Jones
AWJ

Hard to split

Before the Lions tour, I'd have definitely have said Adam Jones for this. However, after AWJ's performances for the Lions and especially in the third test, you're right- it's so hard to split!

AJ. AWJ. Hard to split them. There's just a W between them.

Do you two agree with Jhamer25's assessment of AJ and if so, does AWJ embody the same thing for you when you think about Wales?

Scrumdown wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:

madmaccas wrote:Matt Scott - hard working, passionate and talented with a lot of potential, but lacking in confidence and underrated by world rugby at large.

I wouldn't say scotland are talented or particularly underrated.  They haven't beaten Wales for example in nearly a decade!

Since when was beating Wales a yardstick of rugby excellence?

You're truly a credit to your nation, scrumdown

Wales (population 3m) have hammered both England (population 55m) and Australia (population 23m) in their last two games so are a pretty good yardstick for any rugby nation especially Scotland (population 5m).  

This is especially the case when you consider the fact that England and France are now selecting multi national teams as a result of their wealthy clubs ability to sign pacific islanders and south africans on lucrative 3 year residency deals.

 Don't remember Wales hammering Australia. I remember the British and Irish Lions (population 70 million) winning though.

Do you think the inherent lack of confidence that allows Wales to lose the close games on the big stage comes from this national small man syndrome you are illustrating?

For instance it can't be coincidence that Wales (population 3 million) haven't beaten NZ (population 3 million) for almost 6 decades when places such as Rhodesia have managed it! 

Even the Scott's managed a draw!

New Zealand have an advantage in that the only game in town is rugby.  They also effectively have first pick of samoan, fijian and tongan rugby talent.  They draw their talent from a population size far larger than £3million!

Football is a strong competitor for sporting talent in wales.

Welsh winger Gareth Bale for example is set to be the most expensive player in the history of football.  If he were born in auckland he'd probably now be playing full back for the all blacks.

If Dan Carter had been born in south wales, he may well have been recruited by the swansea city or cardiff city football academies.

The reason Wales lose to new sealand is that their basic skill levels are not as high - nothing to do with lack of confidence.  But the gap is closing. The under 20's have been 3rd and 2nd in the last two world cups and have beaten both south africa and new zealand.

NZ were at the last football World Cup - I don't recall seeing Wales. NZ also play international cricket without limpeting on to the leg of their neighbour. So interns of competition for sport I'd say its at least even.

Also NZ can only select those of Polynesian descent who are actually NZers. Much like Wales select Englishmen on the same basis (North et al), so I'd say your Arguments hold about as much water as a sieve.

Also the population of Samoa and tonga combined is around 260,000 which I suspect you didn't know. 

Which makes it all the more surprising that Samoa (apparently denuded of their first line talent by the evil NZ) have managed to account for Wales so regularly...?

For NZ I'd say the duality at number 10 is what embodies NZ.
A top player that oozes class but is slowly losing it partnered with a young fella that is quickly getting ready to take his place. There's a bit of sadness and concern but there's also hope and excitement.
The Koru (budding palm frond) represents new life or regeneration in Maori and it is this constant regeneration that has allowed the ABs to do so well over the decades.

Ka pai nganboy.  

We should name Dan the 6 million dollar man: we can rebuild him.

For bath I'd say Dave Attwood, a british giant, used to be one of the best in the country but fell away, now after some years regrouping is fighting back to the top echelons, things are looking up !!!

Maybe every country that plays any other sport than rugby should stop doing that, just to improve their chances to compete, or perhaps every country should be limited to the number of Professional rugby players they have to make it more fair.

Of maybe every country should simply focus on being better, having better development systems in place, having a better game plan, and ultimately ensure that politics, nepotism, poor administration etc, don't stand in their way of reaching their potential.

Biltong wrote:Maybe every country that plays any other sport than rugby should stop doing that, just to improve their chances to compete, or perhaps every country should be limited to the number of Professional rugby players they have to make it more fair.

Of maybe every country should simply focus on being better, having better development systems in place, having a better game plan, and ultimately ensure that politics, nepotism, poor administration etc, don't stand in their way of reaching their potential.

America woud likely dominate then...! More money, more population and have you seen the size of NFL players... Scary thought.

There are more registered football players in NZ than rugby ones. It's just like our cricket team, no one really cares. The media make it look as though there's only one sport in town for the winter months.

maestegmafia wrote:

Biltong wrote:Maybe every country that plays any other sport than rugby should stop doing that, just to improve their chances to compete, or perhaps every country should be limited to the number of Professional rugby players they have to make it more fair.

Of maybe every country should simply focus on being better, having better development systems in place, having a better game plan, and ultimately ensure that politics, nepotism, poor administration etc, don't stand in their way of reaching their potential.

America woud likely dominate then...! More money, more population and have you seen the size of NFL players... Scary thought.

Crazy speed for their size too.. But they are mainly focused on being explosive. Completely different skill set needed for an 80 min game with relatively few breaks in play

BamBam wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Biltong wrote:Maybe every country that plays any other sport than rugby should stop doing that, just to improve their chances to compete, or perhaps every country should be limited to the number of Professional rugby players they have to make it more fair.

Of maybe every country should simply focus on being better, having better development systems in place, having a better game plan, and ultimately ensure that politics, nepotism, poor administration etc, don't stand in their way of reaching their potential.

America woud likely dominate then...! More money, more population and have you seen the size of NFL players... Scary thought.

Crazy speed for their size too.. But they are mainly focused on being explosive. Completely different skill set needed for an 80 min game with relatively few breaks in play

Frightening...!

My nephew, who lives in Boston, recently showed me a video of a quarterback throwing a pass to a linebacker who could run faster than the ball was thrown. skill level is immense. But with the level of financing in the game it is no surprise that the players achieve such levels.

Ireland from the last ten years:

Peter Stringer. BO'D has probably been our best player for 50 years but Stringer embodies everything I love about Irish rugby. Here's why:

Ireland will generally always be an underdog to the upper echelons of International rugby because we are one of the smallest rugby unions in the world with limited resources etc.

When you look at Stringer everything about him looks like he should be steamrolled everytime. However, he was not and he became the best scrum half in the history of Irish rugby because:

-He is ultra professional and dedicated. A model pro.
-He is a winner. Traditionally Irish attitudes can be defeatist. Defininitely not Stringer. For me he was one of a new wave of Irish sports stars that challenged that attitude and aimed for the top.
-On the subject of poker he played to perfection the hand that was dealt to him in his career IMO. the IRFU has also managed their resources very well since the turn of professionalism.
-Full of dog, full of fight. Irish rugby has traditionally prided itself on hard nosed rugby players that wont go down without a fight. Stringer despite his size and at time rather foolishly picked fights with guys twice his size. His spirit and will to keep going is relentless and for me he is one of the most determined players I have ever seen play for Ireland.

I could name a million other reasons why Stringer is a legend but those are a few why for me he embodies Irish rugby.

Nice post Guns. I was thinking of Ogara along those same lines for Ireland.