GE Fixes Rugby IV : referees

Here's the rub: a large proportion of fans know far less about the laws of rugby than they admit. Most pundits and commentators know less than they espouse. Many fans "learn"'nonsense from the nonsense espoused by pundits and commentators.

How many times have you heard a TV commentator describe a penalty rationale and get it completely wrong or claim a decision was made for a reason contradicted by the reflink? How many times have pundits decried a referee only to find out the ref was right? 

Solution: All referees and commentators will swap places for one season. Brian Moore will have to referee every international scrum under IRB guidance for one year. Meanwhile Poite, Barnes, Joubert and Walsh will call the games and explain how well they are doing. 

At the end if the year we will review the situation and decide if things are better or worse, and if they should swap back.

Who's with me?

GloriousEmpire wrote:Who's with me?

I thought you left?

Besides refereeing is all about consistency. Rugby is too fast with too much happening at once for one referee to catch everything.

Change the laws, make them simpler and easier to interpret.

Good idea actually, but instead of current refs in the comms box, how about some ex referees stepping up to the plate and taking on commentating roles. How many ex refs do this? They just seem to fade away into oblivion, poor guys, gone and forgotten..

Im picturing Jonathan Davis in his squeeky little voice telling Andrew Hore not to belt some one.

ebop wrote:Good idea actually, but instead of current refs in the comms box, how about some ex referees stepping up to the plate and taking on commentating roles. How many ex refs do this? They just seem to fade away into oblivion, poor guys, gone and forgotten..

That's a great idea, mate.  

In American sport a few officials (baseball umpires, NFL, NHL referees) have done it.  A few were quite amusing and informative.  Unfortunately, none really wanted to rat out their former brethren.  So we didn't get what we really hoped for, but they usually did share perspectives which were unique and interesting.  Those guys, though, were few and far between.

The biggest problem, however, is most officials were simply boring and killed whatever game they were covering.

Cool, so it is done eh Doc. It'd be quite good PR thing as well, because let's face it the refs are almost always the untouchable bogeymen and we never really get to know them. I'm sure a few of them are good guys and maybe even funny and worth listening to, off the pitch:)

ebop,
The one referee who stands out for me would be Tony Spreadbury, who retired a few years ago.  He was genuinely funny and was a darn fine referee.  Would joke with the players during matches but never lost control.  To me, would be a perfect candidate for being part of a Rugby commentator team,.  Wayne Barnes, on the other hand, seems as entertaining as watching butter turn into cheese.

Even if the referee/commentator doesn't challenge decisions made in matches they would be covering, I still think their point of view would be fascinating. After all, they are the only non-player on the pitch.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Brian Moore will have to referee every international scrum under IRB guidance for one year

Moore is a qualified ref so is probably in the best position of any pundit.

Would this mean the entire NZ team would have to commentate rather than ref every game?

Would this mean the entire NZ team would have to commentate rather than ref every game?

Ooops. Bitter!

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Im picturing Jonathan Davis in his squeeky little voice telling Andrew Hore not to belt some one.

I can imagine there being a ruck, heaps of stamping on the man on the deck, and Jiffy pulling out his yellow card.......................and showing it to the stampee.

Brian Moore is a qualified referee I think, so he could do that at least

I also don't get why we don't make the scrum less of a waste of time by taking it off the clock. Game time should be the time the ball is in play

Just abandon scrums. Tap free kick and let's get going. Make the forwards stand in a 5 meter circle will the achieve the same thing.

ChequeredJersey wrote:I also don't get why we don't make the scrum less of a waste of time by taking it off the clock. Game time should be the time the ball is in play

some people will struggle to catch the last train to get back home after the game!

Facing in or out?

doctor_grey wrote:ebop,
The one referee who stands out for me would be Tony Spreadbury, who retired a few years ago.  He was genuinely funny and was a darn fine referee.  Would joke with the players during matches but never lost control.  To me, would be a perfect candidate for being part of a Rugby commentator team,.  Wayne Barnes, on the other hand, seems as entertaining as watching butter turn into cheese.

Even if the referee/commentator doesn't challenge decisions made in matches they would be covering, I still think their point of view would be fascinating.  After all, they are the only non-player on the pitch.  

I would beg to differ about Barnes. I went to a presentation he gave on the breakdown at Ealing RFC about 3 years ago.

It was very informative in terms of what refs look for, material and non material illegal play*. Plus he was funny and articulate.

* An example of illegal play that did not affect the play was a player flying over the ruck and into a clear offside position.

However the ball was nearly out and the 9 got it away cleanly. Result; no penalty as the flow of the game was not affected. Most of the Middlesex county refs who were there said 'clear penalty'.

Personally I would like to see players who run over the ruck on their own ball and impede  opponents from taking part in the contest, penalised.

Irritates the hell out of me that one.

Personally I think Wayne Barnes should ref every NZ game.

Hound of Harrow wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:ebop,
The one referee who stands out for me would be Tony Spreadbury, who retired a few years ago.  He was genuinely funny and was a darn fine referee.  Would joke with the players during matches but never lost control.  To me, would be a perfect candidate for being part of a Rugby commentator team,.  Wayne Barnes, on the other hand, seems as entertaining as watching butter turn into cheese.

Even if the referee/commentator doesn't challenge decisions made in matches they would be covering, I still think their point of view would be fascinating.  After all, they are the only non-player on the pitch.  

I would beg to differ about Barnes. I went to a presentation he gave on the breakdown at Ealing RFC about 3 years ago.

It was very informative in terms of what refs look for, material and non material illegal play*. Plus he was funny and articulate.

* An example of illegal play that did not affect the play was a player flying over the ruck and into a clear offside position.

However the ball was nearly out and the 9 got it away cleanly. Result; no penalty as the flow of the game was not affected. Most of the Middlesex county refs who were there said 'clear penalty'.

Personally I would like to see players who run over the ruck on their own ball and impede  opponents from taking part in the contest, penalised.

Irritates the hell out of me that one.

Me too, the ABs mastered it, as did Ireland for a bit. Drives me mad.

Hound of Harrow,
I would never have guessed that Wayne Barnes made a good presenter in addition to being funny.  Unfortunately, knowing that now makes my little joke look weak.  And in fact you made me look thin-skinned, condescending, supercilious, shallow, pompous, arrogant, and all kinds of big words.  

Seriously, I'm glad to be corrected, because appearances can be deceiving.  Barnes gets a bad rap from a lot of people, so that's good for him.  I usually don't do the emoticon thing, or give people the finger, but I think your correction merits it:   

No worries doc, and my comments were not intended to belittle

More to inform that a ref's on field persona (where they are as much under scrutiny from their employers as the players), does not show their true character.