5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August

First topic message reminder :

With England having won the series, I wonder what changes we will see to the teams.

England
The batting, barring Ian Bell, is misfiring. Too many times batsmen are getting in, but getting out for cameo scores. Prior is struggling a little with bat and gloves, but as the new boy and without a big innings, Jonny Bairstow is most at risk.
The wickets have been shared amongst the bowlers. Onions was unlucky to miss out at Chester-le-Street, but having now broken a finger is ruled out for two weeks. Monty's well publicised indiscretion will not endear him to the management and Steven Finn will probably be left to regain form and confidence with Middlesex. On his own ground, Chris Tremlett may get a run out, especially if they feel that Anderson or Broad need a rest.

all in all I suspect that changes are unlikely.


Australia
The good news is that they may have found an opening pair. The bad news is that the middle order is desperately fragile unless skipper Clarke scores runs. Khawaja and Smith are both batting at least two positions too high and unless he is able to bowl, Shane Watson looks a waste of a spot. Possible chances of recalls for Hughes or Cowan at 3 - and consideration has to be given to Faulkner lower down as an all-rounder.
Bowling has stood up well, but in another horses for course selection we may well see Starc replace Bird. Australia will be desperate for Harris to stay fit.




England have not played very well so far, especially the batters, yet are 3-0 up. Australia have shown they can compete but seem unable to win, even against a faltering team. If England can actually play well we could see a real thumping, but the money men at Ca will hope their team can sneak a win to create interest for the return series.

397/6 at tea, 36 overs left in the day. A very uninteresting Test match so far - draw nailed-on?

I'd say so Duty, especially with more rain scheduled for Saturday and Sunday, according to my BBC weather app.

Very lopsided scorecard that , isn't it?

Been a bit of a weird innings all round really. Aussies have resolved to just play off Anderson, Swann and Broad so theres vast periods of nothing, then carnage against the debutants.

Rain today and some yet to come really means Australia have to get the follow on.

HOW have i missed this game!!

what!!

oh well. aus have done kind of well not to gutted

mystiroakey wrote:HOW have i missed this game!!

what!!

oh well. aus have done kind of well not to gutted

You haven't missed much.

Give Kerrigan an over. What's the worst that can happen? Everyone is on the fence anyway.

Sorry but I don't understand why they haven't bowled Kerrigan today. Heck even Trott has had a bowl. If one thing it does is just destroys the debutants's confidence. He'll be thinking why he was even there.

Australia declare on 492-9

So near enough 300 to avoid the follow on first up

If England avoid the follow-on, and they should quite comfortably, this game will be over as a contest with all the bad weather approaching.

again an early declaration.. They should have gone for another 50. we will easily hit 300

Yeah I can't understand why Kerrigan wasn't given an over or two today at all. Poor young lad probably chomping at the bit to right his wrongs yesterday

Olly wrote:Yeah I can't understand why Kerrigan wasn't given an over or two today at all. Poor young lad probably chomping at the bit to right his wrongs yesterday

As I saw it runs were leaking here, there and everywhere even off of Swann and Anderson so even if Kerrigan had leaked more runs it would have given him a chance to exorcise a few ghosts. Instead now he must really be wondering what he is doing there if Trott gets a bowl before him.

England 28/0 after 14 overs. Tomorrow could be a bit dull - maybe super Kev will liven it up a bit?

32/0 at stumps.

England's over rate shocking.

About time umpires had power to punish sides for it. Perhaps add on 5 runs to the batting side for each over the bowling sides is behind.

Cook was being unashamedly slow today, talking to Woakes between balls, doing everything he could to stall for time. It was embarrassing.

Yeah I don't like to see it, but until something is done about it, they're well within their rights to do it.

Aus has had many positives in this series.....which the 3-0 scoreline thus far doesn't reflect....they have gained far more than Eng from this series.
Smith my pick for the next Aus star capped it with a big hundred eventually.....solving the top-5 problem for Aus. Now between Marsh/ Maxwell/ Moises they will find a good number 6 and they are set.

Eng's negativity both in the field nd with the bat is not good.......problem with defensive negative thinking is you dig a hole for yourself and sink further and further into it.
If they bat positively they can still save the game.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Olly wrote:Yeah I can't understand why Kerrigan wasn't given an over or two today at all. Poor young lad probably chomping at the bit to right his wrongs yesterday

As I saw it runs were leaking here, there and everywhere even off of Swann and Anderson so even if Kerrigan had leaked more runs it would have given him a chance to exorcise a few ghosts. Instead now he must really be wondering what he is doing there if Trott gets a bowl before him.

To be fair Trott got a wicket and looked far more dangerous that Kerrigan did on Day 1.

KP_fan wrote:Aus has had many positives in this series.....which the 3-0 scoreline thus far doesn't reflect....they have gained far more  than Eng from this series.
Smith my pick for the next Aus star capped it with a big hundred eventually.....solving the top-5 problem for Aus. Now between Marsh/ Maxwell/ Moises they will find a good number 6 and they are set.

Eng's negativity both in the field nd with the bat is not good.......problem with defensive negative thinking is you dig a hole for yourself and sink further and further into it.
If they bat positively they can still save the game.

So based on a couple of hundreds on a flat track, in a dead rubber with two debutant bowlers who had very poor games, Australia's top five is sorted? Before this test most people were saying Australia's top five was a serious issue, how can one innings have sorted it?

I would say Australia will go to their home series with more confidence, but I think that has more to do with England not being as strong as maybe many thought before this series, than Australia improving dramatically.

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Aus has had many positives in this series.....which the 3-0 scoreline thus far doesn't reflect....they have gained far more  than Eng from this series.
Smith my pick for the next Aus star capped it with a big hundred eventually.....solving the top-5 problem for Aus. Now between Marsh/ Maxwell/ Moises they will find a good number 6 and they are set.

Eng's negativity both in the field nd with the bat is not good.......problem with defensive negative thinking is you dig a hole for yourself and sink further and further into it.
If they bat positively they can still save the game.

So based on a couple of hundreds on a flat track, in a dead rubber with two debutant bowlers who had very poor games, Australia's top five is sorted?  Before this test most people were saying Australia's top five was a serious issue, how can one innings have sorted it?

I would say Australia will go to their home series with more confidence, but I think that has more to do with England not being as strong as maybe many thought before this series, than Australia improving dramatically.  

Exactly, where was Smith in the run chases at Trent Bridge and Durham? Oh yes, sat in the pavilion for nearly all of it. He is still an issue at 5 and not a player the opposition will fear at all until he makes some tough runs.

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Aus has had many positives in this series.....which the 3-0 scoreline thus far doesn't reflect....they have gained far more  than Eng from this series.
Smith my pick for the next Aus star capped it with a big hundred eventually.....solving the top-5 problem for Aus. Now between Marsh/ Maxwell/ Moises they will find a good number 6 and they are set.

Eng's negativity both in the field nd with the bat is not good.......problem with defensive negative thinking is you dig a hole for yourself and sink further and further into it.
If they bat positively they can still save the game.

So based on a couple of hundreds on a flat track, in a dead rubber with two debutant bowlers who had very poor games, Australia's top five is sorted?  Before this test most people were saying Australia's top five was a serious issue, how can one innings have sorted it?

I would say Australia will go to their home series with more confidence, but I think that has more to do with England not being as strong as maybe many thought before this series, than Australia improving dramatically.  

I don't think that you should interperet me as Aus now has a world class top-5.
but rather they now know who to work with as their top-5....and won't need to chop / change / and start with a scartch in the next test match.
 
Rogers....played a number of good innings in all conditions....their most consistent fighter in this series...and has atleats 2 to 3 more years of cricket left in his tank.
 
warner...on seam friendly pitches of T3 and T4...dleivered enought to show that he is the best of the availbale resources as an opener. The day he fires even 1 in 4 games....he will take the game away like Sehwag.
 
Watson.....may never play a 176 run inning again....but has shown that if they want him in the side No. 3 is the place to be and he will deliver an average of 40 +.....getting some decent scores esepcially on days when openers have seen off the first 20 odd overs. If he does get to bat against slow and medium pace bowlers....he will smack the cover of the ball.
 
Clarke...is Clarke
 
Smith..is mercurial...I have marked him out as one with huge potential ...the next  Mark Waugh of Aussie batting.....and he just went better and better in the series.......he is an Australian captain in the distant future.
 
On the other hand......Eng inspite of having a superior side as of now....have regressed...no new player put up his hadn to be counted.
That Root failed as an opener more by intent then technique....as the biggest of the losses for Eng both in the opener as well as No.6 slot.
Bell's resurgence is the only reasurance.
 
they are showing the same pattern with resources pool and game approach as India did on their rise to No.1
 
 
Like India's Zaheer.....on the morning of next test on a green seaming pitch that renders Swann ineffective If anderson pulls up with a hamstring...gone is Eng's challange.
 
If KP's ankle acts up...30% of their batting strength wiped put.
 
Not that Eng doesn't have reserve talent...they have increasingly becoming concious of their winning positions , trying to hold on to their current position....and make many bad defensive choices in the process.
 
The crash when it hit India....wiped out their top standing, their pride and took about 2 years to painfully rebuild.

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Olly wrote:Yeah I can't understand why Kerrigan wasn't given an over or two today at all. Poor young lad probably chomping at the bit to right his wrongs yesterday

As I saw it runs were leaking here, there and everywhere even off of Swann and Anderson so even if Kerrigan had leaked more runs it would have given him a chance to exorcise a few ghosts. Instead now he must really be wondering what he is doing there if Trott gets a bowl before him.

To be fair Trott got a wicket and looked far more dangerous that Kerrigan did on Day 1.

A. Trott bowled in far more favourable conditions.

B. Kerrigan was supposed to be in for his bowling (unlike Trott) so if they are going to under bowl him then what was the point in selecting him?

It makes no sense whatsoever as it smacks of throwing the kid on the scrapheap after one day of test cricket.

KP_fan wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Aus has had many positives in this series.....which the 3-0 scoreline thus far doesn't reflect....they have gained far more  than Eng from this series.
Smith my pick for the next Aus star capped it with a big hundred eventually.....solving the top-5 problem for Aus. Now between Marsh/ Maxwell/ Moises they will find a good number 6 and they are set.

Eng's negativity both in the field nd with the bat is not good.......problem with defensive negative thinking is you dig a hole for yourself and sink further and further into it.
If they bat positively they can still save the game.

So based on a couple of hundreds on a flat track, in a dead rubber with two debutant bowlers who had very poor games, Australia's top five is sorted?  Before this test most people were saying Australia's top five was a serious issue, how can one innings have sorted it?

I would say Australia will go to their home series with more confidence, but I think that has more to do with England not being as strong as maybe many thought before this series, than Australia improving dramatically.  

I don't think that you should interperet me as Aus now has a world class top-5.
but rather they now know who to work with as their top-5....and won't need to chop / change / and start with a scartch in the next test match.
 
Rogers....played a number of good innings in all conditions....their most consistent fighter in this series...and has atleats 2 to 3 more years of cricket left in his tank.
 
warner...on seam friendly pitches of T3 and T4...dleivered enought to show that he is the best of the availbale resources as an opener. The day he fires even 1 in 4 games....he will take the game away like Sehwag.
 
Watson.....may never play a 176 run inning again....but has shown that if they want him in the side No. 3 is the place to be and he will deliver an average of 40 +.....getting some decent scores esepcially on days when openers have seen off the first 20 odd overs. If he does get to bat against slow and medium pace bowlers....he will smack the cover of the ball.
 
Clarke...is Clarke
 
Smith..is mercurial...I have marked him out as one with huge potential ...the next  Mark Waugh of Aussie batting.....and he just went better and better in the series.......he is an Australian captain in the distant future.
 
On the other hand......Eng inspite of having a superior side as of now....have regressed...no new  player put up his hadn to be counted.
That Root failed as an opener more by intent then technique....as the biggest of the losses for Eng both in the opener as well as No.6 slot.
Bell's resurgence is the only reasurance.
 
they are showing the same pattern with resources pool and game approach as India did on their rise to No.1
 
 
Like India's Zaheer.....on the morning of next test on a green seaming pitch that renders Swann ineffective If anderson pulls up with a hamstring...gone is Eng's challange.
 
If KP's ankle acts up...30% of their batting strength wiped put.
 
Not that Eng doesn't have reserve talent...they have increasingly becoming concious of their winning positions , trying to hold on to their current position....and make many bad defensive choices in the process.
 
The crash when it hit India....wiped out their top standing, their pride  and took about 2 years to painfully rebuild.

Are you Steve Smiths agent?

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Aus has had many positives in this series.....which the 3-0 scoreline thus far doesn't reflect....they have gained far more  than Eng from this series.
Smith my pick for the next Aus star capped it with a big hundred eventually.....solving the top-5 problem for Aus. Now between Marsh/ Maxwell/ Moises they will find a good number 6 and they are set.

Eng's negativity both in the field nd with the bat is not good.......problem with defensive negative thinking is you dig a hole for yourself and sink further and further into it.
If they bat positively they can still save the game.

So based on a couple of hundreds on a flat track, in a dead rubber with two debutant bowlers who had very poor games, Australia's top five is sorted?  Before this test most people were saying Australia's top five was a serious issue, how can one innings have sorted it?

I would say Australia will go to their home series with more confidence, but I think that has more to do with England not being as strong as maybe many thought before this series, than Australia improving dramatically.  

I don't think that you should interperet me as Aus now has a world class top-5.
but rather they now know who to work with as their top-5....and won't need to chop / change / and start with a scartch in the next test match.
 
Rogers....played a number of good innings in all conditions....their most consistent fighter in this series...and has atleats 2 to 3 more years of cricket left in his tank.
 
warner...on seam friendly pitches of T3 and T4...dleivered enought to show that he is the best of the availbale resources as an opener. The day he fires even 1 in 4 games....he will take the game away like Sehwag.
 
Watson.....may never play a 176 run inning again....but has shown that if they want him in the side No. 3 is the place to be and he will deliver an average of 40 +.....getting some decent scores esepcially on days when openers have seen off the first 20 odd overs. If he does get to bat against slow and medium pace bowlers....he will smack the cover of the ball.
 
Clarke...is Clarke
 
Smith..is mercurial...I have marked him out as one with huge potential ...the next  Mark Waugh of Aussie batting.....and he just went better and better in the series.......he is an Australian captain in the distant future.
 
On the other hand......Eng inspite of having a superior side as of now....have regressed...no new  player put up his hadn to be counted.
That Root failed as an opener more by intent then technique....as the biggest of the losses for Eng both in the opener as well as No.6 slot.
Bell's resurgence is the only reasurance.
 
they are showing the same pattern with resources pool and game approach as India did on their rise to No.1
 
 
Like India's Zaheer.....on the morning of next test on a green seaming pitch that renders Swann ineffective If anderson pulls up with a hamstring...gone is Eng's challange.
 
If KP's ankle acts up...30% of their batting strength wiped put.
 
Not that Eng doesn't have reserve talent...they have increasingly becoming concious of their winning positions , trying to hold on to their current position....and make many bad defensive choices in the process.
 
The crash when it hit India....wiped out their top standing, their pride  and took about 2 years to painfully rebuild.

Are you Steve Smiths agent?

yeah true.
I was reportedly KP's agent last year;) 

Big day for Cooky and Root. If Root has another failure with the bat then his place surely has to be under severe threat. That would be 8/9 failures this series. Cook also needs some big runs, a real captains innings is what's required now.

KP_Fan do you mean Steve Waugh for your Smith comparison? Mark Waugh was one of the most elegant players I have ever seen, Smith will never described as such but could turn out to be a scrapper in the Steve Waugh mould.

I used to dream of Mark Waugh. Some of his innings for Essex were heaven-sent.

KP_fan wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Aus has had many positives in this series.....which the 3-0 scoreline thus far doesn't reflect....they have gained far more  than Eng from this series.
Smith my pick for the next Aus star capped it with a big hundred eventually.....solving the top-5 problem for Aus. Now between Marsh/ Maxwell/ Moises they will find a good number 6 and they are set.

Eng's negativity both in the field nd with the bat is not good.......problem with defensive negative thinking is you dig a hole for yourself and sink further and further into it.
If they bat positively they can still save the game.

So based on a couple of hundreds on a flat track, in a dead rubber with two debutant bowlers who had very poor games, Australia's top five is sorted?  Before this test most people were saying Australia's top five was a serious issue, how can one innings have sorted it?

I would say Australia will go to their home series with more confidence, but I think that has more to do with England not being as strong as maybe many thought before this series, than Australia improving dramatically.  

I don't think that you should interperet me as Aus now has a world class top-5.
but rather they now know who to work with as their top-5....and won't need to chop / change / and start with a scartch in the next test match.
 
Rogers....played a number of good innings in all conditions....their most consistent fighter in this series...and has atleats 2 to 3 more years of cricket left in his tank.
 
warner...on seam friendly pitches of T3 and T4...dleivered enought to show that he is the best of the availbale resources as an opener. The day he fires even 1 in 4 games....he will take the game away like Sehwag.
 
Watson.....may never play a 176 run inning again....but has shown that if they want him in the side No. 3 is the place to be and he will deliver an average of 40 +.....getting some decent scores esepcially on days when openers have seen off the first 20 odd overs. If he does get to bat against slow and medium pace bowlers....he will smack the cover of the ball.
 
Clarke...is Clarke
 
Smith..is mercurial...I have marked him out as one with huge potential ...the next  Mark Waugh of Aussie batting.....and he just went better and better in the series.......he is an Australian captain in the distant future.
 
On the other hand......Eng inspite of having a superior side as of now....have regressed...no new  player put up his hadn to be counted.
That Root failed as an opener more by intent then technique....as the biggest of the losses for Eng both in the opener as well as No.6 slot.
Bell's resurgence is the only reasurance.
 
they are showing the same pattern with resources pool and game approach as India did on their rise to No.1
 
 
Like India's Zaheer.....on the morning of next test on a green seaming pitch that renders Swann ineffective If anderson pulls up with a hamstring...gone is Eng's challange.
 
If KP's ankle acts up...30% of their batting strength wiped put.
 
Not that Eng doesn't have reserve talent...they have increasingly becoming concious of their winning positions , trying to hold on to their current position....and make many bad defensive choices in the process.
 
The crash when it hit India....wiped out their top standing, their pride  and took about 2 years to painfully rebuild.

Are you Steve Smiths agent?

yeah true.
I was reportedly KP's agent last year;) 

 

VTR wrote:KP_Fan do you mean Steve Waugh for your Smith comparison? Mark Waugh was one of the most elegant players I have ever seen, Smith will never described as such but could turn out to be a scrapper in the Steve Waugh mould.

Not like Mark in style.....but in being naturally gifted in cricket

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Big day for Cooky and Root. If Root has another failure with the bat then his place surely has to be under severe threat. That would be 8/9 failures this series. Cook also needs some big runs, a real captains innings is what's required now.

Agree about Root, he really needs a score. Still think even with two failures and he will still start 1st Test in OZ, but the pressure will be immense. If he does not make 50 in each match, wonder when the last time an Opening Batsmen play 10 Innings in a series and only passed 50 once?

I hope that England are a bit more positive today, too often this series they have been defensive and although they have got to landmarks, end of day, Lunch etc. without losing wickets their lack of run scoring has meant the game has never really gotten away from the bowling side.

Australia I don't think bowled that well yesterday and if they hit their strides this morning it could be a rough day.

I don't agree with KP_Fan about many things, but I really like Steve Smith as a cricketer as well, He's got the talent, and he's obviously gone away and worked really hard at his batting and is now starting to reap the rewards. Plus he's got the bowling option and is generally a pretty good fielder as well.

He'd be their ideal number 6 imo

dm he will get a 50 today- so..

Days like today are what Cook was made for. Pressure on, need a score, need to bat for ages, pitch conducive to scoring runs. If he's in any kind of nick, he can go out there and put on a big score to rival Watson's.

I wonder how KP will fare with his supposed injury, and this not being his kind of game*














* Just going by what everyone else says

I don't think KP will get to bat. I think cook and root will just bat the game out.














making up for not being about the first two days

I have no confidence in Root batting to 1105, never mind 1805.

KP_fan wrote:Aus has had many positives in this series.....which the 3-0 scoreline thus far doesn't reflect....they have gained far more  than Eng from this series.

Is this similar to when Australia were in the ascendancy (somehow) just before the Test series?

Anyway, it'll be England who take more out of this series than Australia. England have only been at top gear in one Test, and they wiped the floor with Australia. Along the way, England have also tried out new players, and got under Australia's skin a fair bit.

What price the same score (3-0 England) down under? Pretty good I'd imagine.

If the forecast is correct, we should get a full day's play in today, but the weather is still going to be atrocious for the last 2 days.

Australia had little to no hope of winning the series, and I think the same applies to the return leg down under. What they are doing is knitting a team together, getting the likes of Smith the experience they need to lead this team going forward. In 2-3 years we may look back on these two series as the time the next great Australia team was born.

I don't think we will, but you never know.

Gosh, the negativity. Yes, England's over rate was poor and yes, the debutants have had shockers.
But England are 3-0 up and have won without playing particularly well. After years of bitter disappointment, humiliation and resounding losses endured by long-suffering England fans, this is like manna from heaven.
Am looking forward to other boring, under-achieving England sides winning Ashes series.

sirfredperry wrote:Gosh, the negativity. Yes, England's over rate was poor and yes, the debutants have had shockers.
  But England are 3-0 up and have won without playing particularly well. After years of bitter disappointment, humiliation and resounding losses endured by long-suffering England fans, this is like manna from heaven.
  Am looking forward to other boring, under-achieving England sides winning Ashes series.

Well I'm enjoying it, even if few others are.  

   

It's a shame though, imagine if we'd been on fire and handed the Aussies 5 innings defeats. That would have been good. And we should have been capable of it too.

sirfredperry wrote:Gosh, the negativity. Yes, England's over rate was poor and yes, the debutants have had shockers.
 

Kerrigan maybe. Don't know that Woakes has had a 'shocker'.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:It's a shame though, imagine if we'd been on fire and handed the Aussies 5 innings defeats. That would have been good. And we should have been capable of it too.

Yeah, 5-0 would have been great. But be thankful that England achieved three innings victories away from home in the last Ashes series against a much stronger Australian team than this one. OK, the feast this summer after the years of famine aint been quite so sumptuous as anticipated,. But, hey, it's still solid food.

I think we've had the steak, we're now struggling through a mound of peas. And they're cold. And the gravy is cold too. And I have no mash left to hide them in.

If it wasn't for the oncoming downpour, England could still win this game if they bat 4 and a half more sessions. Ah well, I'll take the 3 nil.

I think Aggers is by far the worse of the negative pundits and that's saying something. He literally loves it when we do badly.

Looking forward to Warne's next article as ever: "Australia the moral Ashes winners" or similar. Sure to feature the phrases "in the ascendency" and "take more positives".

No chance the rain lets a finish to this game, unless England collapse today and have to follow on. Anything like 250/5 or /6 and England have rescued the draw.