5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August

First topic message reminder :

With England having won the series, I wonder what changes we will see to the teams.

England
The batting, barring Ian Bell, is misfiring. Too many times batsmen are getting in, but getting out for cameo scores. Prior is struggling a little with bat and gloves, but as the new boy and without a big innings, Jonny Bairstow is most at risk.
The wickets have been shared amongst the bowlers. Onions was unlucky to miss out at Chester-le-Street, but having now broken a finger is ruled out for two weeks. Monty's well publicised indiscretion will not endear him to the management and Steven Finn will probably be left to regain form and confidence with Middlesex. On his own ground, Chris Tremlett may get a run out, especially if they feel that Anderson or Broad need a rest.

all in all I suspect that changes are unlikely.


Australia
The good news is that they may have found an opening pair. The bad news is that the middle order is desperately fragile unless skipper Clarke scores runs. Khawaja and Smith are both batting at least two positions too high and unless he is able to bowl, Shane Watson looks a waste of a spot. Possible chances of recalls for Hughes or Cowan at 3 - and consideration has to be given to Faulkner lower down as an all-rounder.
Bowling has stood up well, but in another horses for course selection we may well see Starc replace Bird. Australia will be desperate for Harris to stay fit.




England have not played very well so far, especially the batters, yet are 3-0 up. Australia have shown they can compete but seem unable to win, even against a faltering team. If England can actually play well we could see a real thumping, but the money men at Ca will hope their team can sneak a win to create interest for the return series.

Blimey ; England 3-0 up and Australia are gaining more from the series ?

KP_fan might be George Dobell ? Read his piece on Cricinfo about England's gloomy future... basically Swann is about to retire , Anderson won't be much longer , and the replacements are all pretty useless ...and the batting is about to fall into a black hole because the standard of County cricket is declining...might as well give up now  

Can't win ,those selectors : stick with their A Team and they are failing to plan ; try out a couple of prospects in a dead rubber and they have undermined the spirit of the contest...

I am not so blind as to ignore some issues that need work - saving comments for later - but really ...can't we enjoy a thumping win in the series without picking the bones off the carcass in a search for something to moan about ?

No we can't, we're England fans

Solid start, no rush lads, no rush.

I love seeing a batsman's score ticking along. Cook 17, 18, 22...get in son, keep it going.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:No chance the rain lets a finish to this game, unless England collapse today and have to follow on. Anything like 250/5 or /6 and England have rescued the draw.

Pity if the weather makes this a real damp squib finish to the series , though such is not uncommon at The Oval. Was hoping England might match the Aussie total at a decent rate and set up an interesting last day and a half...but the lost time and dodgy forecast suggest that is unlikely.
Still hope they bat with intent today : apart from anything else , I think they play better that way than when they seek to stonewall.

Should add some praise for Smith yesterday...jolly good innings , and he carried it on far better than I would have expected.
I like Smith , and was pleased to see him added to the squad ; but I honestly didn't think him capable of such a mature innings , albeit in mostly benign conditions. Still have reservations about him in pressure situations and on juicier tracks , but he has staked a strong claim to a spot in the return series for a start. Will review him again after that is played.
 for now.

Both Watson and Smith put in Test-best innings yesterday. If Cook or Root do that today, we can't lose this Test.

Going well this morning, not too much to trouble us. Shocking that this is England's best opening partnership of the series

Cook and Root bring up their first 50 partnership

Nice start

Alfie

Agree with you above - we should play on the assumption that we will get a full three days play in (even if that looks unlikely in reality), which means that we have to at the very least get somewhere close to the Aussie score by batting through today and well into tomorrow. No need to be stupidly aggressive, but look to put the bad balls away and keep the score ticking along (so far so goood this morning, after being very steady last night...), and we could still be in this game with a good batting performance.

Only risk would be having to follow-on, but if we fail to make 294 on this wicket we deserve to loose.

Exactly. If they are good enough , and the recent form suggests not but their long term suggests so and if they want to set a marker for their visit to Aussie then they must bat for two days and kill the game.

Are they capable right now though?

Well not just killing the game...if they could bat say until near tea tomorrow , that is perhaps 145 overs if it didn't rain , they would be level or in front : still be looking at a likely draw , but they could have a real go at Australia second time around - or Clarke might chance his arm with a declaration...
Not going to happen , I think ; but better to play with a purpose than just taking up time , so it would pay to have a plan like that in their minds.

Yeah I guess Alfie but batting well enough to stop the Aussie win has to be first objective, if they can.

Aussie batted very well and England have to do the same to make a point before going down under.

I was surprised at some comments on the BBC yesterday that genuinely felt Aussie dominated this series, that they're on the up (that is true) and that they are so good England have nothing to touch them for the next five ashes series. People said that sort of thing.

That was clearly not out to everyone, why did Australia waste that review?

Joe Root to make a ton, then 90% of people to say it doesn't matter. Guaranteed.

Cook gone

and there is your answer.  not bloody good enough.


flat track where even Watson and smith arrived at the party and cook utterly fails again.

this shambles will get smashed down under without major changes.

maybe the bbc people were right and we are just crap compared to aussie.

Duty281 wrote:Joe Root to make a ton, then 90% of people to say it doesn't matter. Guaranteed.

more likely he now feels the pressure and limply fails again sadly.

eng to be all out for 180 and aussie to win this at a canter with the way eng are batting.

something massive has to change here.

Starc has a touch of Mitchell Johnson about him

Some nitwits making comments on the BBC then  

People are making too much of similar team averages : this is distorted by the fact that Australia have won the toss on the only two really good batting pitches of the series , and cashed in with two good scores.
The key issue is that although Australia have competed better than perhaps expected , and got themselves into some goodish positions ; over the five days England have always overcome them - as the better team tends to do. Winning the key moments...

I didn't think Australia were complete rubbish before the series : the Indian trip was a disaster where they completely fell apart ; but before that they gave SA a tough series at home - probably a better measure of their potential. Though they couldn't close their advantage out then either...
They have actually batted a little better than I expected , to be honest. I think the dry pitches have actually helped them a bit - might have been good for Swann , but more seam friendly pitches might well have seen Anderson and Broad run through them a few times.

The return series was always likely to be closer. I have seen nothing from Australia to change my view on that one , though I am a little more concerned about England's batting than I was a month or two ago. But we will see how everyone is shaping up in November.

Cook goes after doing the hard part , again...he will be disappointed. Didn't have to play that. Think he will be working on adjusting his technique again when he gets some free time after this Test ...I am not too worried , he has ironed out technical flaws in his game before.

Duty281 wrote:Joe Root to make a ton, then 90% of people to say it doesn't matter. Guaranteed.

Makes a change from Root failing 7/8 times and people being chastised for daring to question him

So Cook has been the worst opener and one of the worst players in this series?

Not nice to see that from Captain. Maybe he needs the pressure of captaincy removed so he can focus on the batting.

GSC wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Joe Root to make a ton, then 90% of people to say it doesn't matter. Guaranteed.

Makes a change from Root failing 7/8 times and people being chastised for daring to question him

He needs time, that's all.

Fan-fudging-tastic. I leave the office for 20mins, come back, Cook gone. Honestly. Why did they ever bring the drinks break into the game?

some fair points on twitter about how slow Cook and Root are compared to the flyers Rogers et al keep getting off too.
 
negative and sets a poor tone.

England could do with nudging the scoring rate up, Australia settling into line

Cook was born slow. He doesn't hit sixes, he's happy to play 10 maidens. He's just not gotten into gear this series. He could have played much worse tbh.

Cook's had a bad series but at the end of the day he was always going to have one eventually. Can't keep hitting hundred after hundred in every test series can you. He'll be back. OZ pitches will suit him more, especially Root also. I think we'll see both flourish down under

Cook's had a bad series but at the end of the day he was always going to have one eventually. Can't keep hitting hundred after hundred in every test series can you. He'll be back. OZ pitches will suit him more, especially Root also. I think we'll see both flourish down under

Glad for Root that he has 41. Even if he's out now, this is no failure. I think he now has his place down under wrapped up.

Strauss in good form today

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=7362;type=series

The only batsman's who's averaged over 45 in this series thus far is Ian Bell, with 71. Just shows what a difficult series it's been with the bat for both teams.

Madness. And yet the bowling has also been rubbish from both sides

Duty281 wrote:http://stats.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=7362;type=series

The only batsman's who's averaged over 45 in this series thus far is Ian Bell, with 71. Just shows what a difficult series it's been with the bat for both teams.

Perhaps not altogether surprising , given two decent attacks and pitches which haven't been minefields but apart from this and Old Trafford have not really been great for stroke play.
Bit unexpected that players like Cook , Clarke and Trott should have had underwhelming series : shows they aren't robots I guess.
Do think both teams have been quite good at mapping opponent's strengths and weaknesses and bowling accordingly , which has had an effect.

50 for Root.  

England should be reasonably happy with their morning's work - approaching 100 with only the one wicket down (and Cook will be seething about giving away a start AGAIN), and Root looking increasingly assured.

I don't get those people here and particularly on the BBC calling for England to push on the rate and try to be entertaining - we are in a position where winning the Test is very unlikely (we'd need 700+ in this innings and then to scuttle the Aussies on the last day), so mission one is to not loose, for which the first part is avoiding the follow-on. We should get there by the end of today just with sensible batting.

Really the best we can get out of this match (given the forecast weather tomorrow) is some good batting practice for the likes of Root, Trott and Prior, who haven't been great so far. Stop the Aussies gaining any momentum for the return series.

BTW - Anyone else impressed by Flower's cunning of letting Watson and Smith get decent hundreds in this dead rubber match, so that the two walking wickets are kept in the Aus squad for the return?  

I think they could stand to push the rate up a tad and push Australia onto the backfoot a bit more. Australia not quite worried yet

Our top order is so slow and boring. Struggle through at 2 runs an over and just hope KP and Prior turn up. Since Root has been put at the top of the order his batting style has completely changed.

jimbohammers wrote:Our top order is so slow and boring. Struggle through at 2 runs an over and just hope KP and Prior turn up. Since Root has been put at the top of the order his batting style has completely changed.

And yet we haven't lost in 12, soon to be 13, Test matches. So does it matter?

Of course it matters. England have struggled to bat teams out of games and the bowlers have bailed them out. Should never look to stand still

Duty, yes it does IMO

I hate how long lunch is. I have mine in 8mins, why can't the cricketers?

jimbohammers wrote:Duty, yes it does IMO

2 boundaries in the first over after lunch.

Hope you're happy, I'm happy too.

Duty281 wrote:

jimbohammers wrote:Our top order is so slow and boring. Struggle through at 2 runs an over and just hope KP and Prior turn up. Since Root has been put at the top of the order his batting style has completely changed.

And yet we haven't lost in 12, soon to be 13, Test matches. So does it matter?

ermm.. we could easily lose this!!

still, glad Root has got a 50 but it needs to be converted.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

jimbohammers wrote:Our top order is so slow and boring. Struggle through at 2 runs an over and just hope KP and Prior turn up. Since Root has been put at the top of the order his batting style has completely changed.

And yet we haven't lost in 12, soon to be 13, Test matches. So does it matter?

ermm.. we could easily lose this!!

still, glad Root has got a 50 but it needs to be converted.

The rain is a'coming Trebbs. The storm is brewing. And England are cantering towards safety, and the urn.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:I hate how long lunch is. I have mine in 8mins, why can't the cricketers?

at work?

you really need to slow down and take a proper break at some point during the day if you don't want to be totally burned out when you're older.

I've seen so many frazzled too soon by never knowing when to stop.

Duty281 wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

jimbohammers wrote:Our top order is so slow and boring. Struggle through at 2 runs an over and just hope KP and Prior turn up. Since Root has been put at the top of the order his batting style has completely changed.

And yet we haven't lost in 12, soon to be 13, Test matches. So does it matter?

ermm.. we could easily lose this!!

still, glad Root has got a 50 but it needs to be converted.

The rain is a'coming Trebbs. The storm is brewing. And England are cantering towards safety, and the urn.

oh is there rain on the way up there?

it's been so lovely down here.  was out on the water for hours last night once the emmets had gone and it was just perfect.  lovely late summer day.

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Azzy Mahmood wrote:I hate how long lunch is. I have mine in 8mins, why can't the cricketers?

at work?

you really need to slow down and take a proper break at some point during the day if you don't want to be totally burned out when you're older.

I've seen so many frazzled too soon by never knowing when to stop.

I spend the other 52mins reading stuff on the interweb, don't worry, I'm no workaholic

Azzy Mahmood wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:

Azzy Mahmood wrote:I hate how long lunch is. I have mine in 8mins, why can't the cricketers?

at work?

you really need to slow down and take a proper break at some point during the day if you don't want to be totally burned out when you're older.

I've seen so many frazzled too soon by never knowing when to stop.

I spend the other 52mins reading stuff on the interweb, don't worry, I'm no workaholic

oh haha.

Good to hear. 

Most days I take an hour and a half lunch, no-one ever notices. I've been watching the cricket on my Sky Go account for half the morning.

   Now that's more like it!!

Sadly it's on silent, but I can pretend I'm working on excel by typing on this forum and staring at the cricket like it's a complex sum I'm working out

I like this Faulkner kid. Looked good with the bat, looks lively with the ball.