5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August

First topic message reminder :

With England having won the series, I wonder what changes we will see to the teams.

England
The batting, barring Ian Bell, is misfiring. Too many times batsmen are getting in, but getting out for cameo scores. Prior is struggling a little with bat and gloves, but as the new boy and without a big innings, Jonny Bairstow is most at risk.
The wickets have been shared amongst the bowlers. Onions was unlucky to miss out at Chester-le-Street, but having now broken a finger is ruled out for two weeks. Monty's well publicised indiscretion will not endear him to the management and Steven Finn will probably be left to regain form and confidence with Middlesex. On his own ground, Chris Tremlett may get a run out, especially if they feel that Anderson or Broad need a rest.

all in all I suspect that changes are unlikely.


Australia
The good news is that they may have found an opening pair. The bad news is that the middle order is desperately fragile unless skipper Clarke scores runs. Khawaja and Smith are both batting at least two positions too high and unless he is able to bowl, Shane Watson looks a waste of a spot. Possible chances of recalls for Hughes or Cowan at 3 - and consideration has to be given to Faulkner lower down as an all-rounder.
Bowling has stood up well, but in another horses for course selection we may well see Starc replace Bird. Australia will be desperate for Harris to stay fit.




England have not played very well so far, especially the batters, yet are 3-0 up. Australia have shown they can compete but seem unable to win, even against a faltering team. If England can actually play well we could see a real thumping, but the money men at Ca will hope their team can sneak a win to create interest for the return series.

alfie wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:This from Vaughn

"
"Since Nathan Lyon came into the side at Old Trafford, he had an iffy first innings there and didn't really get an opportunity in the second innings, but he bowled well at Durham and suddenly Australia look like they have nine of their 11 places secure going into the winter - they just need a number six, and a third seamer to go with Harris and Siddle."
"

My god englands plan has been a masterstroke.  the aussies are now totally certain this is the side.

Dunno.  Lyon is seen as a Hauritz - or Giles type here : the Aussies crave excitement , leggies , a Second Warne...
There will be a push for Fawad Ahmed in the home series for sure.

And Harris is about due to break down again.

But they may well start with this batting group.  Which England won't mind , as long as they can get a fit Bresnan , a revived Tremlett and/or a firing Finn into action...


Lyon and Smith bowling quite well here...new ball or wait a bit ?

Success breeds success..Which back home in the USA is true.............However as Australia had Shane Warne for so long..you'd think they would have someone better than this Lyon guy and Ager coming through......

Swann for me is the difference between the two teams........Getting important wickets at right times..........

New ball taken.

Cue possible carnage.

When did you start taking an interest in cricket , Truss ?

You wouldn't be on here just to wind people up of course  

There we go, Trott gone straight away.

alfie wrote:When did you start taking an interest in cricket , Truss ?

You wouldn't be on here just to wind people up of course  

God forbid....

Love all my bat sports.....Red Sox fan..........

and Trotts dire form continues.

looking very difficult for eng to reach the follow on now.

they reall must shuffle the top three before aussie.  though of course Cook and Trott seem more suited to those pitches so maybe it'll be a different story.

still, aussie in command here.

Trott gone ! I thought it pitched outside leg , but Hawkeye confirms Mr Dar got that one right.
Tight call but correct.

Just what Australia wanted from the new ball.

England just can't get a dominant partnership going here. Still following similar pattern to Old Trafford.

wouldnt say getting starts and to 40's is dire form...

Duty281 wrote:New ball taken.

Cue possible carnage.

if we were half good enough we'd be able to cope with it.

surely even you can see we've grave problems in the line up now doods?

Shane Watson gets 178 in 6 hours...........

England get 176 in the same time..

Dire...........Bring someone in at the top of the order who moves it a long...

Your top 3 is the best advertisement for t20 there is...

I don't think a t20 only top three would do the job though.  But yes they need someone who will move it along, Root has changed his style since moving up suggesting the problem might be coaching.  In which case a coach change is in order.

and Watson has been pretty poor in this series. one good knock on a flat track doesn't stop him being a walking lbw who's desire to rush the game on doesn't help him at all much of the time.

Handy first over from Starc. He can be dangerous , though he can also leak runs.

Tricky period here for England with Harris ready to have a real go...

About now we start to wonder at the wisdom of the five bowler strategy...Bairstow hasn't been prolific this summer , but he has played some useful knocks. Woakes is yet to be Tested as an England number six.

Tea. 181/3. Bet England wish that had just been a normal two hour session !

I'm just waiting for someone to use the phrase 'proper Test Match cricket' e.g. mindnumbingly dull!

Would people class Cook as our biggest failure in this Ashes series? Another dreadfully low score.

Well batted Joe Root  Think Cook and Root will 100% remain our openers for the future and rightfully so. 

Love to see Ian Bell, hit a big score, perfect way to finish his best ever Ashes Series, and probably claim Player of the series award. 

(First post in a while, when football overlaps cricket and when the ashes becomes boring, i lose interest!)

Okay I did it again, 30mins away, Trott goes

Bell scoring a ton now would definitely make this series 'Bell's Ashes'.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Okay I did it again, 30mins away, Trott goes

Bell scoring a ton now would definitely make this series 'Bell's Ashes'.

Azzy

Are you planning to stay chained to the desk until about 7 tonight*?

* I think play can go to 7.30, but it's got a bit cloudy here in Hemel Dumpstead, so I guess the light isn't to great in Vauxhall either, and we'll not get through to the scheduled end.

Sadly I can't, I'm leaving in 22mins. But it takes me 45 seconds to get to the car, at which point TMS is already on. Then 30mins to drive home, whereby I'll have a wind-up radio already in my hand.

So a chance for 2/3 wickets to fall by the time I'm eating dinner.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Okay I did it again, 30mins away, Trott goes

Bell scoring a ton now would definitely make this series 'Bell's Ashes'.

I am going to have someone tie you to your chair , Azzy  

Kinky.

trebellbobaggins wrote:I think Lyon looks a pretty solid option.  He's not Warne but nobody is.  Looks a good honest bowler.

Agree! Lehman must come in for some criticism for dropping in favour of Agar at the start of the series.

Less than 100 to go for England to avoid the follow-on. Pity about the weather, because England have timed this innings beautifully to put Australia under pressure in the second innings.

200 up for 3 wickets.

OK, the run rate isn't exactly making for a scintillating game, but so far so professional in making sure we don't play ourselves into trouble. We should be fine for the follow on as long as Azzy doesn't leave his desk again  

Pretty slow going from England this. But if KP and Bell could see them through that follow-on score, then they should feel a great deal more comfortable. Think a bit more positivity might help England's cause

Australia have treated all their recent spinners rather inconsistently. Seems they sometimes react to a heavy loss by dropping the incumbent spinner just to be seen to be doing something (no point in changing the batsmen because none of the spares are much good  )

Krezja took twelve wickets in India - albeit for about five hundred! , and was almost immediately discarded never to be seen again. And more recently it was a total merry go round in the latest India tour , with Lyon in and out there...and of course Hauritz just faded away with no real explanation.

I think Lyon is a decent spinner, though he sometimes suffers from impatience. Probably should be left to keep learning and improving...but as long as Australia aren't winning the desire for a Wild Card is always threatening to a vanilla finger spinner...

Weather is apparently looking very bad for tomorrow.

This innings could be rolling into day 5 if that happens. They say it is changing now.

Surely if so England would just be playing for safety and Aussie might need to roll the dice for the win.

Duty281 wrote:Less than 100 to go for England to avoid the follow-on. Pity about the weather, because England have timed this innings beautifully to put Australia under pressure in the second innings.

They have timed it with a sundial then  

Even if the weather remained fair , they would need to go on to about 600 to exert any real pressure ...which looks a little unlikely. They are inching towards the follow on I suppose.

Actually I was hoping they could get close to the Australian score some time tomorrow , so that young Kerrigan could get a meaningful second chance. It is looking now as if he may either be bowling in a mad rush onslaught (if Australia are in a similar position to the Old Trafford fourth day) or possibly a playing out time on the fifth...
But I am looking too far ahead. Should just concentrate on the here and now with Faulkner adding to his meagre ration of overs and Bell and KP digging in ...

England settling for the draw on day 2 sadly.

Bat well and properly and they could've had a few sessions at Aus on day 5

GSC wrote:England settling for the draw on day 2 sadly.

Er now, let me see. 3-0 up. Lost the toss on a belter of a batting track and so missed out on the best batting conditions. Ended up, partly due to ourown poor bowling, more than 500 behind

But of course they should be going for it and trying for the win  

I wouldn't care, but when Root and Cook tried to take a risk, look what happened

This is great TEST cricket. A side gets a hatful of runs, the first objective of the opponents is then not to lose

England can never win. I remember a couple of Tests under the latter days of Vaughan's regime, when they went hari-kari and lost and got creamed for it

It's bad enough listening to the smug Jim Maxwell. You'd think that it was 3-0 to the Aussies as he gives the impression that they're the ones playing the cricket. Doesn't help when Agnew is nothing if not always negative about England

Yes, apologies for taking it out on you, but I'm sick of all the carping. We're doing great and as we proved in the last match we are the better team and we'll prove that in Aus

Good points. And then Vaughan attacks them for not being as stupid as he was. Nice one MV.

Did Root impress enough today lads (I couldnt watch)

I'd have much rather seen England try an bat to 500 and make it a 1 innings game than dig in on day 2/3. Especially because its 3-0 and not 1-1

Not to mention it keeps Australia in the game. 1 wicket from Woakes and Prior and England have barely got anywhere

Kevin Pietersen reaches a slow halfcentury.

I remember England getting a slating for batting too slow in this match:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/63901.html

The players said they just wanted to get close on first innings, the rate was immaterial. Worked on that occasion. England have to assume 2 full days remain here so are not playing this too badly. Get to 450 and you never know.

I always feel KP's Test scores are more impressive the slower his RR..

He must be in good form tbh, there is no need to bat fast- it would be ridiculous., This game is only about the future tests(a draw is as good as a win). If we strangle Aus we have the momentum. If we hit hard and got out and Aus got a win they will be on the up..

At least Boycotts enjoying it

That's more like it

Crowd looks a grumpy lot

Here comes Mitchell Johnson Starc

mystiroakey wrote:Did Root impress enough today lads (I couldnt watch)

He nearly always impresses. Let's remember that been an opener in the last test and batting first wasn't easy. This is another thing that puzzles me; this question is asked as though he's playing for his place in Aus

I remember Haden going around 18 months without any great scores (including here in 2005) and it was hardly discussed

Root's a natural at this level. Let's just have a bit more faith in him

Aus think they have KP

And KP is out. England might be in trouble here

Still 75 for the follow on. Should reach that about tea tomorrow at this rate

And Pietersen gets out to a casual wave...

Another batsman getting in and getting out. Seems Bell is the only one who does big scores any more  

Interesting time for Woakes to come in

Oh dearl see, they try to play and they screw up.

Slow and do nothing is the way on a track which is slowing down.

It was a win toss to win pitch, if Aussie don't win this then they should just give up.

They will win though now surely.

Another decent but not telling contribution and partnership. Everyone has got in but no-one has really gone on yet. Ian Bell century again?

Nice start  

Lovely cover drive. 

Woakes with the best shot of the last 6 hours

VTR wrote:Another decent but not telling contribution and partnership. Everyone has got in but no-one has really gone on yet. Ian Bell century again?

Tale of these ashes for eng.

It must be the worse batting I've ever seen in what on the surface would seem a dominant series.

The shoddy reality doesn't match the results at all.

England are going about this the right way. Rather this than 240 all out in 65 overs under the guise of 'entertainment'.

Oooh, good start for Woakes.

GSC wrote:I'd have much rather seen England try an bat to 500 and make it a 1 innings game than dig in on day 2/3. Especially because its 3-0 and not 1-1

Not to mention it keeps Australia in the game. 1 wicket from Woakes and Prior and England have barely got anywhere

They are trying to make it a one innings game. It would certainly be a two innings game if they 'go for it' like you want!!