5th Test - Oval, Weds 21st August

First topic message reminder :

With England having won the series, I wonder what changes we will see to the teams.

England
The batting, barring Ian Bell, is misfiring. Too many times batsmen are getting in, but getting out for cameo scores. Prior is struggling a little with bat and gloves, but as the new boy and without a big innings, Jonny Bairstow is most at risk.
The wickets have been shared amongst the bowlers. Onions was unlucky to miss out at Chester-le-Street, but having now broken a finger is ruled out for two weeks. Monty's well publicised indiscretion will not endear him to the management and Steven Finn will probably be left to regain form and confidence with Middlesex. On his own ground, Chris Tremlett may get a run out, especially if they feel that Anderson or Broad need a rest.

all in all I suspect that changes are unlikely.


Australia
The good news is that they may have found an opening pair. The bad news is that the middle order is desperately fragile unless skipper Clarke scores runs. Khawaja and Smith are both batting at least two positions too high and unless he is able to bowl, Shane Watson looks a waste of a spot. Possible chances of recalls for Hughes or Cowan at 3 - and consideration has to be given to Faulkner lower down as an all-rounder.
Bowling has stood up well, but in another horses for course selection we may well see Starc replace Bird. Australia will be desperate for Harris to stay fit.




England have not played very well so far, especially the batters, yet are 3-0 up. Australia have shown they can compete but seem unable to win, even against a faltering team. If England can actually play well we could see a real thumping, but the money men at Ca will hope their team can sneak a win to create interest for the return series.

Talk of England declaring after saving the follow-on, giving Australia the chance to set a target...which they could with a quick 100-150.

Would England really fancy chasing that in the time remaining?

No time at all Wolfie.  Silly idea.

If Aussie were truly out to win though they would declare after one and tempt England with a low gettable total.

Get another 100 and eng will bat out the little time that's left.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:

trebellbobaggins wrote:I see tms people are still asking for positive from England.

if they did that and threw away the game i'd be very annoyed.

play the situation, make it safe, it's test cricket.

Agreed. Game plan should still be to bore Australia (and the crowd) to death. No need to try and force a result.

Of course, with Prior  now in, I don't think it'll be too long before England are 6 down...

Woakes didn't last very long - a very inconspicuous debut with the bat. Still better than his bowling though.

England 269-5. Should still avoid the follow-on.

Woakes has taken as many wickets as Broad and scored as many runs as Cook. Not too bad a debut.

Not exactly setting a very high standard there, are you?

Not too high, no  
Still, while not a great debut, I don't see it as being a particularly poor one either. Average is about right.

I'd go with "unremarkable" myself. Still he is only a future prospect at the moment. Hopefully he'll get more chances to prove himself.

Down the leg side again? never seen so many dismissals down the leg side caught by the keeper in a series.

trebellbobaggins wrote:No time at all Wolfie.  Silly idea.

If Aussie were truly out to win though they would declare after one and tempt England with a low gettable total.

Get another 100 and eng will bat out the little time that's left.

Agree. If they really want to make a contest out of this, they'd only want another 50-100 runs maximum. That would still be tough to chase.


Oh dear - Bell's gone for 45. England are 298-6. With what batting we have left I don't think England will last much beyond lunch. Then Australia have to bat again and the onus is on them as to whether this game is a contest of any sort.

So eng try to play positive and that happens.

And aggers and tms want them to declare.

Presume they want them to lose.

Aussie still in a strong position to win this.

Anyone else's sound ppaying up with sky?

I cancelled sky after the latest price increase.  Free bt sport will do me now.  Just listen to cricket.

I can never bare to watch eng anyway, painful.

Broad gone.
At this rate debates about whether England should declare or not will become academic.

By a making the point eng have become incapable of posting good scores, not achieving 400 since NZ and messing up again here.

They are on pretty poor form really. Not sure what that says for Aussie when they manage 3-0 in this state.

So,Aussie back in favour of the win?

Though it is day 5 and we are still in innings one.

I hope the tms guys who want entertainment now expect Clarke to declare and set eng this total and slate him the same if he doesn't.

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Broad gone.
At this rate debates about whether England should declare or not will become academic.

I know the pitch was a wi toss and win pitch but this is all a bit pathetic isn't it. lose Bell and they have nobody else now.

Two of the oz boys made tons here and it was two who've been pretty poor. Nobody from eng got close. Poor stuff and a sign changes are needed, maybe in coaching and line up for batting.

Our batsmen have under-performed all series, bar perhaps Bell and Pietersen. The problem with this match is we had bowlers who let them off the hook.

Hood83 wrote:Our batsmen have under-performed all series, bar perhaps Bell and Pietersen. The problem with this match is we had bowlers who let them off the hook.

Yeah bit of a failed experiment.

Also, given the time, Clarke may just have gone on far long again before declaring. He took the bait. He could win here but it's harder now.

trebellbobaggins wrote:So eng try to play positive and that happens.

And aggers and tms want them to declare.

Presume they want them to lose.

Aussie still in a strong position to win this.

Can't stand aggers - self appointed 'Guardian of the Spirit of the Game'. Everyone loves him but he seems a pompous @rse to me. Whatever England do, he'll criticise them. Even when they thump Oz it's 'bad for the game'. Utter bilge, thanks to players like him most of us still feel a win against Oz is rarer than hen's teeth.

Indeed Hood.  

He just doesn't want them better than he was I reckon.

You wouldn't know they had won three series on the bounce because he talks as if they've failed at everything every time.

Hood83 wrote:Our batsmen have under-performed all series, bar perhaps Bell and Pietersen. The problem with this match is we had bowlers who let them off the hook.

root half decent average(bolstered by a 180 though)

KP, root, bairstow all ok IMO

Bell Good

the rest poor.

However bres and broad have actually shown they can bat. - they have been useful.

So its not really doom and gloom is it.. Still winning when the two W Class batsmen are off form.(cook and trott) If those get there form back..... We are in great shape

trebellbobaggins wrote:Indeed Hood.  

He just doesn't want them better than he was I reckon.

You wouldn't know they had won three series on the bounce because he talks as if they've failed at everything every time.

Which is unfortunate for him, as they are, comfortably. I've been critical of our batsmen, I don't think they're as good as people believe or have previously raved about. I even worry that Cook may end as a player who had a protracted vein of excellent form rather than a whole career of excellency. BUT...they've won, so good on them.

Hood cook has the most 100's as an england player and averages over 48- you have lost focus on him mate.. You don't need to worry.

His issue is playing in england- he is suited better away.. Many players have prefered conditions and cook is no exception(bell is better at home than away). Not every player is as gifted as a KP that averages similar everywhere . These players are a rare breed.

mystiroakey wrote:Hood cook has the most 100's as an england player and averages over 48- you have lost focus on him mate.. You don't need to worry.

His issue is playing in england- he is suited better away.. Many players have prefered conditions and cook is no exception(bell is better at home than away). Not every player is as gifted as a KP that averages similar everywhere . These players are a rare breed.

Yep, Cook looks excellent, a cracking record. Just have a nagging feeling he'll taper off a bit like Vaughn. But I can't say it's based on much more than a hunch. I still believe our batsmen are a notch below our bowlers, who are a rare breed.

Our bowling is better than our batting agreed. India's batting is the best in world cricket. England's over all bowling is the best and SA's all round is the best IMO.

Likely old first session , eh ?

Matt Prior doesn't really play any other way , nor does Swann. And once the magic 293 came up the pressure was largely off...

Pity Woakes didn't go on - he looked OK with the bat , I thought. But probably not enough to win a spot on the tour party. One for the future , perhaps. , as a number six and serious fifth bowler.

Is the pressure off Alfie?

Aussie still have a big lead.  The problem for them is just the time in the game.  We are well into day 5 and on innings one still.

This is all thankfully a long way from how England would have replied in the bad old days,

We'd have been well into England's second tail by now and still 300 short.

oh well, no hope of 400 now and the idiots who wanted an entertaining England loss will probably get the wish,.

Aggers you numpty.

Prior had a poor poor series.  His worst I've seen in ages.

So then england start playing shots for some odd reason and wickets come along

anyway- england will get to 400 , then aus will have to smash it t20 for 10 and try and get 100 then try and bowl us out. still I would put my mortgage, my business and my family on a draw..

9 down. 73 overs still left in the game, so Australia have a bash for 15 overs and declare? England go for it (hopefully) leading to an exciting conclusion, perhaps?

England will not get there.

A entire series with no 400 scores? It's a bit of a failure in that sense.

And this shows the numpties that if England played this brainless stuff on Friday they would have been out for 200.

The hit and giggle crowd have no idea.

trebellbobaggins wrote:Is the pressure off Alfie?

Aussie still have a big lead.  The problem for them is just the time in the game.  We are well into day 5 and on innings one still.

Effectively , trebs. If Australia end up say 120 ahead they would surely want to double that before sending England back in...and that probably wouldn't leave too many overs ?
I think they can play quite late...assume no light problems today...but even so getting ten wickets quickly on a pitch where 13 fell in three days seems rather unlikely.

Anyway we will see Aussie's intentions soon enough , as England go nine down...they don't seem too bothered about protecting wickets today  

Wicket keeping record for Haddin ... He has had a good series , with some good catches. But he has dropped a few bad ones too...A record , but not a particularly meaningful one ; Haddin, with due respect , is nowhere in the list of great wicketkeepers.

Duty281 wrote:9 down. 73 overs still left in the game, so Australia have a bash for 15 overs and declare? England go for it (hopefully) leading to an exciting conclusion, perhaps?

Clarke is the hero of the entertainment crowd and aggers, he must repay them by putting England straight back in and proving how exciting he is.

Duty281 wrote:9 down. 73 overs still left in the game, so Australia have a bash for 15 overs and declare? England go for it (hopefully) leading to an exciting conclusion, perhaps?

Perhaps. More likely the Aussies play out time. Doubt they would want to give England a sniff after having the better of the match to now.

Tbh, it wouldn't surprise me if Australia had a quick thrash. England have showed little desire to win the game, and even if England do chase it down its hardly going to be morale destroying in the circumstances

I think they would have aimed for at least a 350 lead here if there was time, to take away any chance of an eng win.

As it is now they need to dangle a carrot so not waste any time.

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:9 down. 73 overs still left in the game, so Australia have a bash for 15 overs and declare? England go for it (hopefully) leading to an exciting conclusion, perhaps?

Perhaps. More likely the Aussies  play out time.   Doubt they would want to give England a sniff after having the better of the match to now.

But I thought Australia loved this "brighter" cricket? I though they were the heroic saviours of this game, the team that people flocked from far and wide to see, while England were that dusty, dull team that no one liked?  

If you listen to tms yes.

The people who wanted eng to declare 250 behind.

there is no way aus will allow us to chase it down.even though that would be the only way they could win the game.I bet they will get to about 250 ahead and only give themselves 30 overs to get us out.

if they allow themselves 50 or more overs to get us out then fair play to them. It could make a game of it

Must admit I am a bit surprised that England have totally reversed Friday's strategy...
If they wanted an early presentation they probably only had to bat until mid afternoon - a slightly less aggressive approach might have seen us seven down at most by now.

Perhaps they do harbour hopes that Clarke might offer them a bait ?

100 lead certainly would have been a minimum requirement if you batted first here. It was a peach and not one you can be wasting chances on.

well then this innings could be exciting. They have to go 20/20 style.

wouldn't it be funny if we bowled them for under 50

The thing is , even if they gave England fifty overs to bat , taking ten wickets would be rather unlikely , on what appears to be still a good batting surface.

I think all these "boring England" quotes from the Aussie players are largely journo driven. With a bit of stirring thrown in  

We'll see soon enough...all out 115 behind. Rather lucky four wickets for Faulkner and a breezy 34 for Swann.

Unusual scorecard - 377 with a top score of 68

If they went hit happy, the pitch has slowed down and they made a lash of it?

Would be funny. Unlikely though.

Hope they give Kerrigan a bowl

Time to see if Australia have any balls, or if they'll just defend until it's time to shake hands.

BTW if they only go odi style(5 an over) and not full on smash and grab t20- then its bad for cricket- and I mean very bad, We will possibly have to cancel the game- it sets up a bore fest that we never ever want to see again.  

alfie wrote:The thing is , even if they gave England fifty overs to bat , taking ten wickets would be rather unlikely , on what appears to be still a good batting surface.

I think all these "boring England" quotes from the Aussie players are largely journo driven.  With a bit of stirring thrown in  

We'll see soon enough...all out 115 behind.  Rather lucky four wickets for Faulkner and a breezy 34 for Swann.

Unusual scorecard - 377 with a top score of 68

Unusual.

FLat out poor on this track.

I'm very disappointed in how poor England have become with the bat.

Not one player converting a start. An absolute shambles giving Aussie a good lead on a good track.

Not Good enough at all.

trebellbobaggins wrote:This is all thankfully a long way from how England would have replied in the bad old days,

We'd have been well into England's second tail by now and still 300 short.

oh well, no hope of 400 now and the idiots who wanted an entertaining England loss will probably get the wish,.

Aggers you numpty.

Prior had a poor poor series.  His worst I've seen in ages.

My thoughts exactly.

So maxwell on tms says the fun begins now because Aussie are out there.

I think it was fun already this morning, albeit a brainless waste of a good position from England.

Faulkner finishes with 4 wickets. Operation 'keep the mediocre players in the Aussie team' has been an unqualified success

Olly wrote:Faulkner finishes with 4 wickets. Operation 'keep the mediocre players in the Aussie team' has been an unqualified success

nice positive thinking there

Oh so Aussie bring in young players and they get four.

We bring in young players and they are hopeless and out of their depth.

Any more proof needed we are it bloody mess with lack of depth and those says Aussie will dominate for years are correct.

Aussie have a hugely talented talent coming through. England are in trouble.

mystiroakey wrote:

Olly wrote:Faulkner finishes with 4 wickets. Operation 'keep the mediocre players in the Aussie team' has been an unqualified success

nice positive thinking there

We let Watson and Smith get hundreds  

Yeah we did that, That was clever. They will pick the again now.