PGA Tour: Careers on the Line at Greensboro: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).A melodramatic statement, perhaps, but that's what this week's "Wyndham Championship" in Greensboro, North Carolina, is (mostly) all about. One golfer, though, whose career looks secure is Jason Dufner so let's first look back at last week's PGA Championship at Rochester's Oak Hill.

2).Congrat's to Duff Daddy, a well deserved win, as emphatic in its own way as Mickelson's Open Championship. Good to see Keegan Bradley among the very first to congratulate the guy he beat in Atlanta's play-off for the 2011 Championship, a strangely rare sight of esprit de corps among US Tour players.

3).Oak Hill seemed to hold its own remarkably well as a true Championship test - albeit that softish greens after Friday morning's unrelenting rain perhaps made for a bit more target golf than the PGA might have liked. Congrat's also to Doncaster's very own Kerry Haigh for setting the course up as a wonderfully fair test.

4).What of the golfers Dufner beat?
~Furyk: 54-hole leader played well in his 500th Tour start but was out-golfed by Dufner - no shame in that, but Furyk will be disappointed that he's still adrift in the race for a Presidents Cup spot. He will, however, earn an invitation from Billy Payne for the 2014 Masters.
~Stenson continued his almost incredible run of summer form. Will this hot streak continue, or is that Henrik's best?
~Blixt: Nervous to start with, played some extraordinary shots to keep his tournament going, and one to keep an eye on as his career develops.
~McIlroy: Undone by the very dodgy fifth green on Sunday, fought back well. Better days are coming.
~Westwood: Recovered from a pair of Round 2 brain-farts on #8 and #9 (his 35th and 36th holes) to get back into the tournament with a good Round 3 only to get off to a disastrous start on Sunday. Get back on the phone to I B-F.
~Simpson: Fantastic Round 2 from Webbgod, playing in the absolute worst of Friday's cold rain shot a 64 to equal the course record, at least four shots better than the rest of his "wave", or at least those who played more than nine holes in the Jack Crapp. Conditions were so dismal that Tim Clark, for instance, had to lay up on three par fours after hitting the fairway with his driver.
~Garcia: Right in the tournament after 36 holes, sleep-walked his way thru the weekend. Not sure went wrong on a course that should have suited him.

5).And then there's Tiger Woods: Oak Hill was never going to suit him but the intransigence of his game-plan such as hitting driver just once on Thursday (for instance) was bound to leave him long approaches with no margin for error. Add to that just one reachable par-5 and you have a recipe for disappointment - for Tiger and his fans anyway.
But next year sets up very well for Woods: Augusta (say no more), Pinehurst (runner-up to Campbell), Hoylake (2006 win) and Valhalla (2000 win).

6).The Top 15 finishers (and ties) earn themselves a place in the field for Valhalla in 2014. Those not otherwise exempt include:
Furyk, Stenson, Blixt, Piercy, Day, 2xJohnsons, Weekley, Leishman, Stricker, Castro, Streelman and Marc Warren - "chapeau" to Mr.Warren.

7).Adam Scott is the first player to finish in the top five in three Majors in one year since St.Padraig in 2008. His cumulative score for all four Majors was +2, equalling Jason Day (Aussie, Aussie, Aussie!) as best of the Major year.
Eleven others also made all four Major cuts, and no surprises amongst 'em:
Choi, Dufner, Garcia, D.Johnson, Kaymer, Kuchar, Mickelson, Snedeker, Stenson, Westwood, Woods.

8).And so, from one Donald Ross masterpiece to another Ross classic, Sedgefield CC in Greensboro. Sergio beat Tim Clark here last year and there's a good field challenging him for this year's title.
Loads of Carolina Boys like Haas, Glover (no 5-putting from four feet this week please Lucas), and 2011 Champ Simpson, plus nouveau Tar-Heel residents Clark, de Jonge, Karlsson and Pettersson.
And a strong contingent of other Europeans with plenty to play for: Paul Casey (hope he's made up with his caddie), Fisher, Garcia, Hanson, Harrington, Kaymer, Norlander, Owen as well as Brian Davis and David Lynn, but sadly no Russell Knox - is there an anti-Scot bias going on?

9).Any previous assertion in these notes that just the top 125 FedEx points scorers join other exempt golfers with a 2013/2014 Tour card appears completely wrong, and the top 125 money-winners will also qualify for next year.
So Colsaerts is taking the week off as he is apparently content with re-upping on Tour next year but foregoing the chance to play in the FedEx Play-Offs. But Hanson and Harrington are both going for a Play-Off place while other notables who risk being out of the top 125 in both money and points - and have no exemption safety-net - include:
Appleby, Immelman, Cauley, Fisher, Owen, Ricky Barnes, Karlsson, Ishikawa and Sean O'Hair.

10).Finally, non-members who would have earned enough FedEx points to be in the top 200 will also be eligible for the web.com Tour Finals.
Does this mean that the appearance of players such as Gonzo, Franny Molinari, Fisher and Olesen among the early commitments for the Wales Open signify that they are all committed for next year's European Tour? But Marcel Siem is not signed up for Wales and, perversely, nor is Casey even though it is his photograph that adorns the European Tour Wales Open web page!
Frankly, I haven't been able to find an absolutely definitive statement as to who will finally be eligible for what - anecdotedly one feels one has it right but this is a little bit like Champions Tour eligibility in that definitive qualifications appear to be a well kept secret.

The weather will be unseasonally cool in Greensboro and possibly showery but this is another Ross course that looks great on TV. My two bob each way will be on forgotten Carolina Boy Jonathan Byrd.

Interesting list on pgatour.com of golfers who have reached the FedEx Play-Offs each year since their 2007 inception. There are 46 altogether, including Europeans:
Rose, Donald, Jacobson, Garcia, Poulter, Davis and Harrington.

Harrington is the only one of these still to secure his place this year and probably needs at least a Top 40 finish to play The Barclays at Liberty National - where he tied for second the only time LibNat has been used before.

Yes, I forgot Zach is playing.

GPB wrote:Yes, I forgot Zach is playing.

You mean 'praying'?

13 non-Americans (four Englishmen) in to Round 2 (last 32) of US Amateur. Wonder if that's a record?

pedro wrote:

GPB wrote:Yes, I forgot Zach is playing.

You mean 'praying'?

I guess that is a bad thing. I guess he could be all night getting drunk and trolling for trolls like one Brit.

And FTR, Zach is not playing Barclays. He is attending his brothers wedding according to a GC tweet.

I guess it's good for him. But I wish he'd stop missionaring. Just as I'd rather not listen to political propaganda.

So Americans now with two majors in a row .... Predict Mr. McIlroy will put and end to that in 2014.

GPB wrote:

pedro wrote:

GPB wrote:Yes, I forgot Zach is playing.

You mean 'praying'?

I guess that is a bad thing.  I guess he could be all night getting drunk and trolling for trolls like one Brit.

And FTR, Zach is not playing Barclays.  He is attending his brothers wedding according to a GC tweet.

Frankly yes it is, as pointless and fruitless as throwing money in a wishing well. Nobody would think that is good preparation. All that bible thumping and prosletising and he still isn't and never has been as good as someone you describe as a drunken twitter troll. Says it all really, despite his solitary Major win.

Spend less time praying to a fictitious deity and being arrogant enough to think they give enough of a crap that they'll improve your game at the expense of those sensible and rational enough not to be gullible or spend more time practicing? Mmm, I wonder which one will actually work? What's the expression? "Nothing fails like prayer"

Super

As you know, I am no fan of prayer or indeed anything else religious, but to say prayer doesn't work makes no difference to the point made as I suspect Zach does all the things a normal pro would just without the drinking. And it was drinking which was referred to in GPB's post.

It is clear that Zach's praying does him no good, but it doesn't have to if he also carries out a normal practice schedule.

What is not so clear is how much Lee Westwoods drinking impacts on his game?

I would agree that Westwood's drinking could be detrimental, although GOlf is hardly full of players you could describe as proper athletes.

However Johnson actually believes it's doing him good, when obviously it isn't, so he's deluding himself, so he's wasting his time and placing hope on absolutely nothing.
As pointless as talking to the ball.

super_realist wrote:
As pointless as talking to the ball.

Wouldn't catch me doing that   'c'mon me little beauty get in the feckin hole wouldya..'

We need to do an experiment like Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin carried out in her school days to determine the effectiveness of prayer.

Do all you want Mac, but there is no difference to praying to whatever Johnson does and praying to a dog merde. Neither works.

McLaren wrote:...It is clear that Zach's praying does him no good...

How do you know? Maybe it helps if Zach can offset some of the things that happen to him, golfing of otherwise, to his God? Certainly less self-responsibility if you believe that sort of thing. Call it placebo, or anything else for that matter, but I suspect it has at least some +ve influence on him. I can't really see the difference between what he does and what someone like Rose does when he's spouting his latest sports psychologist stuff or Day does trying to engage whichever hemisphere of his brain he thinks is more important to his game.

What he's saying Navy is that there are no results from praying. Praying has never worked for anyone in terms of a return, however there is plenty evidence that positive thought might help, but that's what it is, it's not praying that does anything, it's perhaps the positive thinking element he attaches to his praying that does, but there is no celestial reciprocal benefit to praying. There is no supernatural assistance.
It's psychology wrapped up in an hysterical religious excuse.

So that's Zach Johnson and Steve Stricker out of The Barclays - any more for any more?
Crucial week, therefore, for Zach if he wants a place in Freddie's Pres Cup Team. Stricker, currently ninth in qualifying, is taking at least a fortnight off so Zach (10th) could overhaul him and some others with a top finish this weekend.

Most of the morning wave have finished their bacon butties and are on the range, thirty or so already on the course in dry, 60-ish, conditions with a sunny, mild, occasionally breezy day in prospect. VERY (mid-sixties) cool and showery thru the weekend.

Harrington has to make the cut at the very least and probably needs a Top 40 finish, to reach the field for The Barclays. Par at the first.

Mmmmm bacon butties  /Homer

Predicting Harrington's performance is more and more becoming an exercise in futility.  He's all over the place even within a round let alone over 2 or 4 of them.  Fingers crossed though - I find his growing madness endearing.

super_realist wrote:What he's saying Navy is that there are no results from praying. Praying has never worked for anyone in terms of a return, however there is plenty evidence that positive thought might help, but that's what it is, it's not praying that does anything, it's perhaps the positive thinking element he attaches to his praying that does, but there is no celestial reciprocal benefit to praying. There is no supernatural assistance.
It's psychology wrapped up in an hysterical religious excuse.

Really? No! Surely not!? Mac made the point about Zach's praying not helping him - whatever the reasons, it almost certainly helps him. The actual reasons make not a jot of difference do they? Anyway, that's surely enough on this (boring) topic on Kwini's thread methinks...

Navy, still don't think you're getting it.
It might indirectly help him, in terms of the psychological/placebo aspect, but his prayers aren't literally answered which is what I think Mac was getting at, so when he "thanks god" for his performance, he's kidding himself that he's had celestial assistance.

Praying doesn't work obviously in real terms, no prayer has ever been answered, but the psychological aspect of positive thinking, and taking your mind off things may be a by-product which gullible people might interpret as supernatural.

It's no different to making a wish, or concentrating on something else to take your mind off/help keep you calm.

He's using psychology, he's just stupid enough to call it by something it isn't.

I get it fine and I think it's you that's missing the point but I'm not discussing it anymore in this thread.

Surely (quasi)religion is just as irrelevant to golf as a player's sex life - they don't talk about that (except Tiger who apparently feels the need to apologize for his) and they shouldn't talk about christ, the lord, saviour or god.
If it helps the best golfer in the world to have the waitress for his Perkins breakfast, that's OK.
If it helps (multiple choice unfortunately) to think their christlordsaviourgod will help, that's OK too.
Just shut up about it.

PS: Harrington hitting rock bottom, +3 after 6.

kwinigolfer wrote:Surely (quasi)religion is just as irrelevant to golf as a player's sex life - they don't talk about that (except Tiger who apparently feels the need to apologize for his) and they shouldn't talk about christ, the lord, saviour or god.
If it helps the best golfer in the world to have the waitress for his Perkins breakfast, that's OK.
If it helps (multiple choice unfortunately) to think their christlordsaviourgod will help, that's OK too.
Just shut up about it.

PS: Harrington hitting rock bottom, +3 after 6.

Come on Kwini, do you really think that Woods had any desire whatsoever to apologise for his sex life ? There isn't a player out there less interested in discussing his personal life than him. Whether it was sponsors, his wife or his mum who forced the issue I don't know but it certainly wasn't fuelled by any desires Woods had to purge his soul. I am utterly convinced he despised every second of it.

Navy

I was trying to support GPB's point that praying cannot do harm as long as you are not waiting on miracles and actually putting in the work, whereas westwoods drinking may be harming his game.

I am also curious where you have found evidence that prayer is useful in terms of being an act of positive thinking. It seems that is just your opinion.

I

Digs,
I'm sure you're right - I just couldn't think of any other golfer alluding to his sex life in public - whereas the bible is punched every bleeding day.

Lots of birdies out there in Greensboro - and Harrington's not making any of them, yet at least. +3 after 7.

McLaren wrote:Navy

I was trying to support GPB's point that praying cannot do harm as long as you are not waiting on miracles and actually putting in the work, whereas westwoods drinking may be harming his game.

I am also curious where you have found evidence that prayer is useful in terms of being an act of positive thinking.  It seems that is just your opinion.

I

Quite simple Mac, if you are the type to pray for a good round, and you have a good round, it's a simpletons opinion that it  is down to some sort of celestial assistance rather than talent, practice etc, That's the positive thinking effect.
Of course it doesn't mean the prayer worked, they are merely mistaking their positive hopes rather than thoughts for their prayer being answered.

Rather odd they never mention it when they have a bad one though, but then again bible thumpers are always selective.

FTR, I am not a religious fanatic and never been one.

But I am not ridicule or criticize Zach (or Webb's or anyones) personal relationship with God.

How many times have heard that the mental aspect of golf is one of the most important part of excelling at golf.

I very much think that a strong belief system DOES help some golfers gain a mental edge.

And when players thank God for their win, IMO, that is what they are doing. For helping them find the mental strength to excel.

GPB, THey are mistakenly calling their use of psychology as a belief of god. No one has a relationship with god anymore than they have a relationship with an imaginary friend, pixies, leprechauns etc. Substitute any of them in your winners speech and you'll be carted away.

If it helps them to have this crutch, fine, but it's a psychological tool, whether they are aware of it or not.

Using their imagination to help them, nothing wrong with that. but no clestial force is helping them, it's just using their minds (in a rather strange way) to help them.

SuperRealist wrote:"...If it helps them to have this crutch, fine, but it's a psychological tool, whether they are aware of it or not...."

William Shakespeare wrote:What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;

You say to-MAH-to,
I say to-MAY-to.


What the heck difference does it make?  Other than for some superficial reason for you (and others) to criticize American Players

I'm got nothing against American players, just bible thumping ones who can't see their "prayers" are no such things, but a psychological technique that they don't actually realise they are using because they are blinded by their gullibility and they dress it up as something it isn't.

A prayer is just thought, that's all, never answered, never responded to.

It is, like it or not, psychology.

In addition, I don't think being a god-botherer is unique to Americans in golf. I noticed JB Kruger has a cross stitched into the sleeve of all his golf shirts and I remember hearing of a few others like that on the European Tour.

I find a logical fallacy (as opposed to an ideological one) in any person attributing their success to any deity and I always want to ask them "So all the talent and practice - just a waste of time then?"

Old Bernhard likes to bother the old robed one on accasion. I believe he takes prayer sessions too!!!

super_realist wrote:I'm got nothing against American players, just bible thumping ones who can't see their "prayers" are no such things, but a psychological technique that they don't actually realise they are using because they are blinded by their gullibility and they dress it up as something it isn't.

A prayer is just thought, that's all, never answered, never responded to.

It is, like it or not, psychology.

I'll bite. What difference does it make WHAT the reasons are for a 'prayer' helping a player?? It doesn't matter does it (except to you)? I certainly wasn't advocating religion but you seem to have taken it as that. As GPB says:

How many times have heard that the mental aspect of golf is one of the most important part of excelling at golf.

I would have thought that any +ve effect on a players mental state while in a tournament has to be a good thing and as long as that doesn't come from the pharmacy then there's no problem.
Mac clearly stated that ZJ's prayers do him no good. What he should, perhaps, have said is that he didn't think any deity was going to help ZJ in response to an appeal.

Incidentally Mac, there's plenty of evidence out there re. the self-psychological effects of 'prayer' - I'm not going to do your job for you. Call it placebo or whatever you like, I'm not bothered. It's only positive thinking by another name. It's also completely different from saying "I'm praying for X to come out of that coma" etc - there's no evidence for any +ve effect of that sort of thing.
You might have a point re. Westwood's drinking and its effect on his golf but I don't know anyone that suggests he overdoes it do you? I also doubt he imbibes much/anything during or leading into a big tournament. What was Westwood's schedule post-Oak Hill? Maybe he has a few weeks off.

With you Kwini on the 'preaching' thing having just won something! Wish someone would come out and give credit to something completely bizarre just for a laugh and see what's said.

Bob_the_Job wrote:In addition, I don't think being a god-botherer is unique to Americans in golf. I noticed JB Kruger has a cross stitched into the sleeve of all his golf shirts and I remember hearing of a few others like that on the European Tour.

Bernhard Langer comes to mind as devout although I don't recall him ever banging on about it on telly.

Bob_the_Job wrote:I find a logical fallacy (as opposed to an ideological one) in any person attributing their success to any deity and I always want to ask them "So all the talent and practice - just a waste of time then?"

Oh I wish one of the TV interviewers would ask someone that after they've just finished!

Navy, I agree that the mental edge is vital to golf.
I'm merely saying that a "prayer" whether they admit it or not is a mental part of their game, rather than a supernatural one that they think it is.

Obviously a prayer has never been answered and only a supremely arrogant idiot would think a god could care about knocking a ball in a hole, All they are doing is positive thinking, and deluding themselves they are talking to "god"/leprechaun/pixie etc.

I do wish an interviewer would simply walk away though when they bring up their imaginary friends in interview though.

super_realist wrote:....I do wish an interviewer would simply walk away though when they bring up their imaginary friends in interview though.

Why?  We don't walk away when you talk about your friends...

GPB wrote:FTR, I am not a religious fanatic and never been one.

But I am not ridicule or criticize Zach (or Webb's or anyones) personal relationship with God.

How many times have heard that the mental aspect of golf is one of the most important part of excelling at golf.

I very much think that a strong belief system DOES help some golfers gain a mental edge.

And when players thank God for their win, IMO, that is what they are doing.  For helping them find the mental strength to excel.

It is no longer their "personal" relationship with God if they make it public at every opportunity.

Super- you don't know there isn't a God, so spare us the Richard Dawkins nonsense.

incontinentia wrote:Super- you don't know there isn't a God, so spare us the Richard Dawkins nonsense.

I think anyone with any common sense would agree that the burden of proof should lie with the person that claims something exists, not the person who claims it doesn't.

navyblueshorts wrote:And on that note, let's get away from theistic nonsense on this thread. I think that's more than enough now don't you?

Spoilsport.  

I thought it was an interesting conversation between Psychology/Science and make believe incredulity unwittingly achieving the same aims?

Incredulity?

You must be referring to Harrington. t138 at present - not much point of playing if that's the extent of his form. Very disappointing last six months for him.

Padraig missed six putts from 6 feet and less today. A few years ago he would have holed all of those putts and scored 67. Impossible to score if he can't hole anything. I think he should take a good break from all competitive play, probably until the Dunhil Links.

super_realist wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:And on that note, let's get away from theistic nonsense on this thread. I think that's more than enough now don't you?

Spoilsport.  

I thought it was an interesting conversation between Psychology/Science  and make believe incredulity unwittingly achieving the same aims?

Maybe, but the D4S thread is the place for it I think...

Tinmar,
Harrington will likely need a (five under par) 65 Friday or he'll be in for a break - he's among the early declarations for Celtic Manor.

And, talking of CM, I see his erstwhile compadre, Ross Fisher has nudged his way on to the leaderboard at five under par with three holes to play. He'll need to maintain that place to save his "Card" but one positive sign is that his best tournament this year so far was down the road at Charlotte.

Glad to see Sergio continuing where he left off last year and Peter Hanson is off to a decent start. Guys like Karlsson, Owen and Norlander have plenty of work to do over the next three days or it's the web.com Tour Finals for them.

...or the FAQ section on ZJ's homepage...

PH3!

I see only two US players in the QFs of the US Amateur. I'm guessing this is a record low. Who was the last English winner? Neil Raymond & Matt Fitzpatrick must have a great chance and it looks as though England will dominate the Walker Cup team.

Fitzpatrick seems to be a great prospect. I saw him on TV at the Open and he looked to be about 12. Plus, with that name, he must have a lot of Irish blood!

Possibility of one more as Matthias Schwab goes down the 18th fairway with Scheffler, all square. And Scheffler wins it.

Shame that the Continental Euros came up short but 2 x Aussies and a Canadian are showing that the rest of the world have much to offer the golf universe - whatever Finchem might think.

Fisher sleeps with a share of the Greensboro lead.

So far my predictions re. Sergio were right and Pettersson wrong.

I must be losing it. I could have sworn the USGA site showed Schwab having won that match at the time of my earlier post.

tinmar

Not sure about the last English winner but Richie Ramsay won it some time in the last five years or so.

Diggers wrote:There isn't a player out there less interested in discussing his personal life than him. Whether it was sponsors, his wife or his mum who forced the issue I don't know but it certainly wasn't fuelled by any desires Woods had to purge his soul. I am utterly convinced he despised every second of it.

Gee ya think? I agree completely.

My guess... that whole debacle was one of those namby pamby "steps" in his "therapy"... probably insisted on by the wifey (which I'm only guessing he was still trying to hold on to at the time). Oh well... life's a bitch, then ya die... time to move on.