Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[dynamark]

First topic message reminder :

Hi folks not been around much lately due to new job and no access at work.
Digs I would avoid franchises and any long term property commitments connected to the business.
I very nearly bought into a coffee shop /café a few years ago and in the end it was the hours and time involved which put me off but the lad who bought it is flying .He will be open this morning and doing good business.Anything like that is all about position of course.One of the best businesses I have seen is a café bar in Bristol on the hill up to the Clifton area .opens at seven in the morning and closes at two in the morning.Change of menu and prices late afternoon and lighting /music for the evening trade.
Seen a few things in my new job with a large housing association providing social housing for the unwashed,unemployed,unfit,mentally ill,etc.One surprise is that they have properties and areas where only set religious groups are allowed to live.They call it 'creating communities'?
Hope all are well.

[MustPuttBetter]

As I said, all about opinions! Crazy how wildly differently people can see the same thing

[beninho]

Russian pole vault winner showing she is in touch with the outside world...crazy homophobic country.

[super_realist]

Russian pole vault winner showing she is in touch with the outside world...crazy homophobic country.

Interesting question:

Do we have to give second and third world countries a chance to catch up with the more developed countries of the world in regards to many things such as views on things like race, sexuality etc.

For instance, It's unrealistic not to give developing countries the chance to improve their economic situation using fossil fuels in a way we did in the past but are trying to be less reliant on, or at least in a cleaner way.

Should we give them a bit of time to catch up socially too?

[raycastleunited]

I think comparing Xavi and Iniesta with Batty is like comparing Monet and Manet with the bloke who painted my fence.

Monet and Manet never both painted in the same team. We don't know how good they would have been together so your comparison is massively flawed

Fair play Manet played more of a Guardiola role as mentor to Monet. So let's say Monet and Renoir as the engine room with Degas and Cezanne out wide. Definitely a more creative influence than the Batty / Ince axis for England.

What I'll always remember about Batty is his poor shooting and his pathetic fight with Le Saux.

[raycastleunited]

Batty played his fair share for England a bit later on once he'd gone to Blackburn. But in the early 90s we seemed to prefer Carlton Palmer.....
Good old Graham Taylor

It wasn't just Graham Taylor... didn't Wilkinson replace Batty with Palmer at Leeds?

I remember watching an england game at Wembley in about 1993 (might have been San Marino WC qualifier). The England team were doing warm up drills and playing one touch 5 yard passes to each other. Carlton Palmer was all over the place, at least twice he failed to side foot the ball 5 yards to a team mate. And this was the era when John Barnes regularly got booed when he came on! Dark days for English football.

[1GrumpyGolfer]

I always remember a comment about Carlton Palmer, I think it was Graham Taylor who said it, which was he had great energy levels and covered every blade of grass on the pitch. I think the press commented that was because his first touch was so awful.

[Diggers]

There's only one Carlton Palmer
And he smokes marijuana
He's six foot tall
and his head's too small
walkin' in a Palmer wonderland.

[super_realist]

You're right Diggers, he had a pea head.

[pedro]

I always remember a comment about Carlton Palmer, I think it was Graham Taylor who said it, which was he had great energy levels and covered every blade of grass on the pitch.  I think the press commented that was because his first touch was so awful.

No, it was because he checked whether he could smoke it.

[navyblueshorts]

Russian pole vault winner showing she is in touch with the outside world...crazy homophobic country.

Yes, but as Jonathan Edwards said, she's a product of her society and it wasn't so long ago that we were no different in the UK. It's only been ~25 years since Communism there collapsed. It'll change eventually because that's the way the wind's blowing but it'll take time. Hopefully, some more enlightened colleagues/competitors are having a quiet word off-camera...

[mystiroakey]

Tbf Edwards is product of a 2000 year old society.

[pedro]

Ironically, with all the macho man and naked torso surrounding Putin I bet he is gay.

[McLaren]

Super

Maybe we need to give the misguided citizens a chance to catch up - not sure I am actually that understanding - but governments and nations implementing homophobic policy do not deserve any leeway. These governments should get no sympathy and sanctions should be applied no matter what economic status they are.

Russia should have it's Olympics and world cup taken away from it, there is no other rational reaction to such abhorrent policies. If we are willing to bomb nations for the tenuous reasons we currently do then removing the privilege of holding an international sporting event should be as easy as deciding to take an unplayable from inside a gorse bush.

[super_realist]

Mac. While what Russia have done and what isinbayeva have said might be deemed unacceptable to the modern west it isnt illegal.
Isinbayeva can say what she likes if she isnt actually breaking any laws. Just because we may not like it we cant impose sanctions simply because we deem it as something else over here.
The 'say what you like as long as we agree with it' attitude is as bad as anything she says

[McLaren]

Not sure about laws but it seems sexual orientaion is covered by human rights

http://www.hrea.org/index.php?doc_id=432

Plenty enough reason to put some UN sanctions in place if anyone in power cared enough.

As for FIFA and the IOC, they dont need laws to make a statement. They could easily withdraw the Olympics and world cup based on nothing other than Russia attitudes to gay people.

[super_realist]

I really don't see how there are Mac.
Russia have a law in which the promotion of homosexuality cannot be promoted to those under 18. I'm not sure how you could apply sanctions based on that.

Look at the human rights records of other countries which have held major events in the recent past and hardly an eyelid is batted.

You cannot withdraw a tournament based on one small law in which one country or organisation disagrees with another. Brazil, Qatar, China, South Africa and even America have some pretty dodgy policy, so this is really a storm in a tea cup, and a complete over-reaction and selective call from the liberal agenda.

[JAS]

They could easily withdraw the Olympics and world cup based on nothing other than Russia attitudes to gay people.

Erm no that's not the way those organisations work...Slip their officials hefty backhanders though and you never know!!

[JAS]

Good to see the Ruski pole vaulter bats for the right side though...that means my chances are 0.01% rather than 0.00%

[Bob_the_Job]

Good to see the Ruski pole vaulter bats for the right side though...that means my chances are 0.01% rather than 0.00%

Have you seen the calluses on the hands of a female pole vaulter?? Trust me, you don't want to go there!

[Davie]

Good to see the Ruski pole vaulter bats for the right side though...that means my chances are 0.01% rather than 0.00%

Actually I was a bit surprised she walked the right side of the street. The camera men kept showing a very attractive woman in the crowd when the Russian was on her victory parade. I'd come to the conclusion she was a bit of a mug-runcher

[beninho]

A bit of a mug muncher. Good to see it's not just the Russians that need educating.
I don't think you should excuse a country for having dodgy laws. But It-shirts down to personal choice about competing countries should not make the decision. Has there been talk of boycotting Qatar world cup due to their dodgy views on homosexuality?

[Davie]

Beninho - at least my words were deliberately jumbled. In your case I recognized all the words, just not necessarily in that order  

[mystiroakey]

"Has there been talk of boycotting Qatar world cup due to their dodgy views on homosexuality"

loads.Its been going on since before they were awarded it.

[super_realist]

At least there take on homosexuality is that they deem it illegal. Russia jjust has a rather outdated law on the promotion of it.

Storm in a tea cup.

[beninho]

The thing with football though is it tries to keep homosexuality issues in the background. The guy at Leeds who came out decided to quit English football at the same time. The abuse an openly gay footballer would get in the UK or large parts of Europe would be horrendous. Though football seems to be making a bigger issue over the weather then the gay rights in Qatar. Didn't blatter make a general statement sweeping it under the carpet.

[navyblueshorts]

Ironically, with all the macho man and naked torso surrounding Putin I bet he is gay.

Now, that would be something wouldn't it?

Mac. The IOC must surely have been aware of the way the wind currently blows re. homosexuality in Russia. They awarded them the Winter Olympics knowing this. They can't simply take it away or they'll be sued into oblivion I would think. They wouldn't dare to take it away from Russia either.

[super_realist]

Where was Mac when the World Cup was in South Africa, America, Brazil, Olympics in China etc. Some really serious things happen there yet Mac cries about a bye-law in Russia regarding the promotion of homosexuality amongst minors.

Was he parading in Downing Street to protest against Clause 16(or whatever it was called) in Euro 96?

[mystiroakey]

At least there take on homosexuality is that they deem it illegal. Russia jjust has a rather outdated law on the promotion of it.

Storm in a tea cup.

Its very strange though isn't it. Its like a thought control law.. And at the same time they are not seemingly punishing people for homophobic attacks.

If you can't teach the young not to hate then how can they ever change the country. It will just get worse

[beninho]

I would be interested to see if any athletes or footballers refuse to go based on the views held in that country. I would be surprised. Though I do not think it is down to sportsmen or organisations based on politics. Though Qatar for the world cup sure as hell wasn't based on sport!! Still is a ridiculous decision.

[super_realist]

I'm not sure Oakey, Countries like Russia are a bit like the UK was 25 years ago, we can't necessarily expect them to think and act like we do simply because we are ahead in our economic, industrial and social development.

[Diggers]

Isinbayeva is apparently very tight with the ultra Conservative power groups in Russia. Lets face it a woman pole vaulter is never going to be a huge global star so much better for her to court attention and favour in her homeland which lets face it is still a bit behind the times.
Shame she won the other day really, clearly an utter diva regardless of all of this latest stuff.

[super_realist]

I wonder if Mac has boycotted Ireland on account of their draconian Abortion laws?

[mystiroakey]

SR - not sure mate. This is a country specifically promoting gay hate.

The world had an issue with homosexuality years ago. Mainly due to our collective religions but did we make up these crazy 1984 styled laws(25 years ago) to try and stop gays ever being seen in a normal light..

If we had made those laws 25 years ago, we wouldn't be were we are today.

I would say russia is more like 50 years behind!

[Diggers]

Legislation doesn't change everything. Plenty of people in the UK and certainly in the States have huge problems with homosexuality.
For a lot of people its not about education, they fundamentally don't agree that its a natural state of affairs. Its not that they aren't informed, its a personal viewpoint.

[super_realist]

That's not what the issue is Oakey, It relates to a law which forbids people promoting homosexuality to under 18's.
We weren't that different all that long ago.

There are far worse things that countries do than this, unpleasant as it is.

It wasn't that long ago that being a homosexual carried a jail term in the UK, and even more recently homosexuals weren't allowed in the arms forces, so I don't think as a country we should be so pious and condemnatory

[mystiroakey]

"It relates to a law which forbids people promoting homosexuality to under 18's.
We weren't that different all that long ago."

I know that.. Its exactly my point.

"There are far worse things that countries do than this, unpleasant as it is."


This isnt a game of tot for tat. We have every right to have a pop at russians policy.

"It wasn't that long ago that being a homosexual carried a jail term in the UK, and even more recently homosexuals weren't allowed in the arms forces, so I don't think as a country we should be so pious and condemnatory"

not 25 years ago. as i mentioned- 50 years ago would be more precise

[super_realist]

Yet Oakey, less than 25 years ago we had laws forbidding the promotion of homosexuality for those under 18. No different from Russia now. So why do we expect them to see things as we do now?


We are within our rights to have a pop at Russia's policy, however less well developed countries will always lag behind, what we can't do is try and impose our will upon them.

Plenty countries are ahead of us in terms of social policy. We aren't at the top of the tree in terms of being civilised.

[mystiroakey]

Not sure I understand your thinking mate. We can have a go at our policy as well.


Have you got a link about these anti homosexuality laws in the uk 25 years ago. I certainly don't remember them

[Diggers]

Anyway back to actual athletics....some really disappointing UK performances after such a good start to the championship. Just watched Adam Gemili make running 20.17 look very easy indeed, brilliant bend from him. Id put money on him being the first British guy to go sub 10 and sub 20 in the sprints, hopefully the sub 20 will come this week though even that might not get him a medal.
Big night for Mo, huge ask for him. Have a feeling that the Africans are going to make it a pretty e, at least if they have any sense that's what they will do, last lap burn up and it should be Mo's.

[Bob_the_Job]

I think people in general put far too much stock in what the laws of a particular country are as a measure of how tolerant or advanced they are as a society. The UK has laws against discrimination of all sorts, but it still happens here, and often happens and goes unpunished. The UK has laws to protect minors and yet they still get abused. Really you have to look at the people in a country, and in the past, there were strong cultural differences between nations which reflected their levels of tolerance and openness.

However, now I think as we see easier and higher levels of emigration and immigration, those differences and distinctions are breaking down. As Europe and to some extent the world becomes one large cultural melting pot, rather than being able to distinguish one country as tolerant and advanced its thinking, they are all starting to look much the same, or on the road to being much the same. Sadly that sameness is characterised by a polarisation between the tolerant and fair, and the narrow minded and fundamentalists.

[Diggers]

Not sure I understand your thinking mate. We can have a go at our policy as well.


Have you got a link about these anti homosexuality laws in the uk 25 years ago. I certainly don't remember them

Section 28 in 1988, part of the Local Govt Act. Basically it forbade he promotion of homosexuality by local authorites Mysti.

[mystiroakey]

local authorities but not individuals..

[Diggers]

Its still legislation and it caused a huge amount of strife at the time.

[mystiroakey]

there was still gay pride weeks back in the late 70's they weren't illegal were they?

That is very much illegal in Russia.

So I am not sure how this is the same dude?

[beninho]

Whilst Britain did have the section 28 in place, which i do not recall or know much about, I would say Britain was a far more tolerant country towards homosexuals back then. How big a song was Frankies Relax!

[Diggers]

Nobody is saying its exactly the same, as you said its not boobie for tat.. The point is it was very poor govt policy which was clearly against the promotion of homosexuality. There were massive marches and protests at the time. The gay community were up in arms.

[mystiroakey]

Yes exactly, our society had the right to protest and change the laws at that point. And clearly did!!

In russia they are sh!t scared to do this.. There is no freedom of speech there!

[Diggers]

Yes we do have freedom of speech here.....though clearly if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time on a protest the police can kill you...make a half hearted apology after lying about the facts.....and that's that.
We are hardly perfect.

[mystiroakey]

I never said we were. Just that todays russia was nothing like uk back in the late 80's

We have always had empowerment.

they sadly never ever have had this. They have always been subject to thought control propaganda!

[Diggers]

Which makes it amazing that we could elect a govt back in 1988 that would implement such out dated policy...yet it happened.

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