Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[dynamark]

First topic message reminder :

Hi folks not been around much lately due to new job and no access at work.
Digs I would avoid franchises and any long term property commitments connected to the business.
I very nearly bought into a coffee shop /café a few years ago and in the end it was the hours and time involved which put me off but the lad who bought it is flying .He will be open this morning and doing good business.Anything like that is all about position of course.One of the best businesses I have seen is a café bar in Bristol on the hill up to the Clifton area .opens at seven in the morning and closes at two in the morning.Change of menu and prices late afternoon and lighting /music for the evening trade.
Seen a few things in my new job with a large housing association providing social housing for the unwashed,unemployed,unfit,mentally ill,etc.One surprise is that they have properties and areas where only set religious groups are allowed to live.They call it 'creating communities'?
Hope all are well.

[super_realist]

What are you talking about Monty?

Oakey, no I'm not taxed on it. I get paid suffiently not to need it in my pocket where I would get taxed on it. I can reduce that amount to 10% too if I want but that is taxable.

[MustPuttBetter]

Mysti you're not taxes on your employers contributions no.

And property would be a much better investment but you need the lump sum to acquire a second property!

[mystiroakey]

What are you talking about Monty?

Oakey, no I'm not taxed on it. I get paid suffiently not to need it in my pocket where I would get taxed on it. I can reduce that amount to 10% too if I want but that is taxable.

The fact is you are actually paying 15% in reality(but as its tax free it is a tempting scenario)

[MustPuttBetter]

Historically the stock market (your pension fund) out performs property over extended timescales, 30 years plus.
I'd still rather have my money in property though

[super_realist]

Mysti you're not taxes on your employers contributions no.

And property would be a much better investment but you need the lump sum to acquire a second property!

Precisely.
I'm reasonable comfortable, but still can't garner enough money together for a deposit. Need approx £30k in Aberdeen to make it affordable and allow for over-payments and interest rate fluctuations.

[beninho]

Unfortunately you would be unable to make a joint JSA claim, as you are responsible for a child. Just the one claim allowed. Cannot see what else you could claim to top it up. So just have to get by on the £584pm, no worries about paying anything towards a pension scheme though.

[super_realist]

What are you talking about Monty?

Oakey, no I'm not taxed on it. I get paid suffiently not to need it in my pocket where I would get taxed on it. I can reduce that amount to 10% too if I want but that is taxable.

The fact is you are actually paying 15% in reality(but as its tax free it is a tempting scenario)

Well, you could put it that way if you like, although not really as if I wasn't in this industry I'd be on about half the annual salary, but considering the situation where I came from with no pension and no annual bonus or healthcare I'm happy to put that away until retirement.

[MontysMerkin]

What are you talking about Monty?

I'm saying that huge business's (such as energy) make absolutely massive profits, pay their workers well, give them extremely nice benefits (prob as a tax break to them), shift as much cash away from the taxman as possible, and leave us to quibble about a relatively small proportion of the population claiming a minuscule amount of money (in the great scheme of things).

Like I say it's not that hard to work out surely.

[MustPuttBetter]

Thanks Ben, I'll take these figures home for discussion  

[mystiroakey]

Historically the stock market (your pension fund) out performs property over extended timescales, 30 years plus.
I'd still rather have my money in property though

Property would be the sounder and more prudent investment due to the fact that rental prices is nicely tagged along with inflation.

2k today could be worth 500 in 30 years time, however a 1 k rental today would go up to 4k rental in 30 years(not exact figure but you should get the point)

[MontysMerkin]

Historically the stock market (your pension fund) out performs property over extended timescales, 30 years plus.
I'd still rather have my money in property though

Property would be the sounder and more prudent investment due to the fact that rental prices is nicely tagged along with inflation.

2k today could be worth 500 in 30 years time, however a 1 k rental today would go up to 4k rental in 30 years(not exact figure but you should get the point)

That's assuming things stay the same - come the revolution you landlords will be first against the wall (hope my couple of little rentals keep going up in value and remain occupied....)

[super_realist]

Monty, I wasn't aware Energy companies were having a go at those on benefits.

I know it's a small amount, and I'm more critical of the system than those benefiting from it.

For the record, salaries/pensions etc are also a miniscule amount in terms of an Energy companies outgoings. My companies is about 2.5%, so they are hardly likely to care, or be too concerned about tax write offs or a few ne'er do wells rinsing the benefits system.
They just treat their employees well due to A) lack of skilled employees in Europe and competitions between companies for expertise. B) Compensation for living in Aberdeen and associated cost of living up here.

[SmithersJones]

Interesting that it's not ok for people to receive more benefit than they need as an absolute minimum, but it's fine to pay less tax than you could or normally would by reconstructing your own remuneration.

Why is receiving more from government than necessary worse than paying in less, particularly if those paying in less are doing so deliberately and those receiving more are doing so by virtue of arrangements they can't avoid?

[super_realist]

Where is anyone doing that?

[MustPuttBetter]

Mysti most people are doing well if the rent in meets the mortgage, letting agent fees etc and it washes it's face.

Usually you're just looking at the capital growth. Unless you've got so much money you don't need a mortgage of course

[mystiroakey]

Historically the stock market (your pension fund) out performs property over extended timescales, 30 years plus.
I'd still rather have my money in property though

Property would be the sounder and more prudent investment due to the fact that rental prices is nicely tagged along with inflation.

2k today could be worth 500 in 30 years time, however a 1 k rental today would go up to 4k rental in 30 years(not exact figure but you should get the point)

That's assuming things stay the same - come the revolution you landlords will be first against the wall (hope my couple of little rentals keep going up in value and remain occupied....)

True I mean anything can happen right. But the size of the UK is what truly aids our housing market in the long run. The place is just too small. If your rentals are in the right areas I think its the safer risk. And hey you are managing your own pension- rather than leaving it to people that you don't know from adam!!

[beninho]

SR, tell me you do not believe that companies, big and small, do not do all they can to reduce tax liability?

[mystiroakey]

Mysti most people are doing well if the rent in meets the mortgage, letting agent fees etc and it washes it's face.

Usually you're just looking at the capital growth. Unless you've got so much money you don't need a mortgage of course

No i would allways look at the rental not the growth- because that is the prudent approach- This is a long term pension outlook. Its about saying what will get me the money i need to live on regularly when I am retired..

And hey you can of course sell up If you want. that is your option. That isn't even an option on most pensions..You will have to just take a monthly pension(and maybe a nice large amount when you hit age as well. But not all of it)

[super_realist]

SR, tell me you do not believe that companies, big and small, do not do all they can to reduce tax liability?

When have I ever said they didn't?

We're talking about pensions and the benefit system. Nothing to do with big companies.

[beninho]

Sorry, i read it that mr SJ, was talking about tax avoidance in businesses, and you replied where is anyone doing that?, it seemed you doubted his claim that companies try to avoid tax. My mistake if i read it wrong.

[MustPuttBetter]

All true enough Mysti

[super_realist]

Sorry, i read it that mr SJ, was talking about tax avoidance in businesses, and you replied where is anyone doing that?, it seemed you doubted his claim that companies try to avoid tax. My mistake if i read it wrong.

I think he was slyly saying that I was tax avoiding because I choose to allow my company to pay my pension rather than freeing it up as a salary for the government to take tax on.

[MontysMerkin]

By minimising their tax, they are increasing the tensions at the lower end. Big business has got far to comfortable with those in power in my opinion. And as this thread has demonstrated this tension is where all the oooh shock horror stuff comes in.

Mysti, that's Love sacks. This country could easily take double what it has. Admittedly the SE would sink under the weight, but that would be no great loss.

[SmithersJones]

No, not just you. And I'm genuinely interested in why it's ok to deprive the government of income but not ok to receive more from the government than absolutely necessary?

[super_realist]

No one has said it's ok for companies not to pay their tax.

[mystiroakey]

By minimising their tax, they are increasing the tensions at the lower end. Big business has got far to comfortable with those in power in my opinion. And as this thread has demonstrated this tension is where all the oooh shock horror stuff comes in.

Mysti, that's Love sacks. This country could easily take double what it has. Admittedly the SE would sink under the weight, but that would be no great loss.

Trust me- Buying in the SE is a more prudent pension option over sticking it into a company fund that is created (not actually just for tax relief) but more to do with liquidity!

[MontysMerkin]

No one has said it's ok for companies not to pay their tax.

But it's no great leap to see why demonising those less fortunate doesn't solve the issue?

[MontysMerkin]

By minimising their tax, they are increasing the tensions at the lower end. Big business has got far to comfortable with those in power in my opinion. And as this thread has demonstrated this tension is where all the oooh shock horror stuff comes in.

Mysti, that's Love sacks. This country could easily take double what it has. Admittedly the SE would sink under the weight, but that would be no great loss.

Trust me- Buying in the SE is a more prudent pension option over sticking it into a company fund that is created (not actually just for tax relief) but more to do with liquidity!

Thats what my Mum thought in the 80's. She lives in a shed now. Interest rates at 15% can sure change that view in a hurry!

[super_realist]

No one has said it's ok for companies not to pay their tax.

But it's no great leap to see why demonising those less fortunate doesn't solve the issue?

On a simplistic level, yes I agree, but you are overlooking the other things which add huge benefit to the public purse.
Big business is essential.

[mystiroakey]

Well the house my mum and dad bought in the late 70's was bought for 20k and sold for a million 5 years ago.

As long as you can grind it out and have other assets you will get buy a massive change in interest which will never last for ever.

and off course anyone not going for a 5 year fixed today needs to rethink!

[beninho]

Interest rates will not sky rocket again, politicians are to scared. The housing market for the country needed a crash when it all kicked off a few years ago. Prices needed to be brought in line. But They stopped it from happening. Now talk is prices are going up again. All that will happen is that FTB will be priced out again, and properties will be brought by landlords. Good for the landlords, not great for the FTB. But then Gideon wants to bring in his scheme to inflate the market even more.

[beninho]

Anyway, who doesnt love a good debate??!!

So much more fun then talking about Tigers swing on a golf forum.

[super_realist]

Indeed, no mud slinging either. Well done lads.

[mystiroakey]

You are spot on benhio, interest rates rocketing to 15% plus would kill the country because house prices are to high.

Back in the late 70's and early 80's interest rates were high- but they could affordably be high. as the average house price to average earnings was so much lower.

But you have to even understand what a 2% rise would effectively do to you and that on average would still be an extra 200 quid a month you need to find!!

[super_realist]

Exactly why I can't afford to buy at present Oakey, well not unless I want to commute for 40 mins every morning and evening.

[mystiroakey]

To get the house I want I have to move 30 miles out of London SR.

[MontysMerkin]

That's what worries me (not in the SE). Average house prices are, what, 220K now? 3 times salary for a mortgage = over 70k. Unsustainable in the long term I reckon.

[mystiroakey]

Monty you can get 4 times and the government is doing a 5% scheme starting in jan. However to sustain this ,Interest rates have to remain low

[MontysMerkin]

That may be so, but it means the banks taking on bigger risk (which they just love). And it still means earning 50K?

[mystiroakey]

We are forced into cohabiting aren't we!

[goldwolf]

My mortgage deal is about to expire and they're offering me 4% fixed rate for 2 years, thinking I might go to variable, what do you guys reckon?

[MontysMerkin]

Think the b of e has basically said no rises for at least 2 years so I should go with base rate for at least 18 months.

[MustPuttBetter]

I think SJ is slyly referring to Mysti's minimal salary and dividends to max out his basic rate tax band set up more than you Super

[mystiroakey]

I would go fixed, its just safer. but 5 years. I think a 1-2% rate is coming along soon enough.

[mystiroakey]

I think SJ is slyly referring to Mysti's minimal salary and dividends to max out his basic rate tax band set up more than you Super

It means i pay more corp tax!

[MustPuttBetter]

How much equity do you have Goldy

[MustPuttBetter]

How much equity do you have Goldy

Monty the B of E has said no rises until unemployment gets down to 7%. It was at 7.7% last month so who knows, very volatile

[beninho]

I used to be a mortgage advisor until it started being beneficial for people to stay on the SVR instead of remortgaging. So unless you can get a great fixed rate, then stick to the SVR. I remember when some variable rates where linked to BBR, that stopped, which is a shame.

My mates still love the base rate +0.26 for life deal he took years back.

[goldwolf]

About 75% MPB. I think the 5 year deal is higher.

[MustPuttBetter]

I think SJ is slyly referring to Mysti's minimal salary and dividends to max out his basic rate tax band set up more than you Super

It means i pay more corp tax!

Which is cheaper than taking a salary and paying higher rate rate plus employer and employee NI

I'm not complaining, tax advice is what I do! Just pointing out I think that's what SJ is referring to

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