WBC - Take Vitali's title off him now!!!

First topic message reminder :

This has to be a joke.

Vitali having just pulled out of his latest match against Stiverne again.

http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/8870089/vitali-klitschko-pulls-out-of-mandatory-wbc-title-defence-against-bermane-stiverne

Say what you want about Stiverne, but he has fought 2 eliminators to get the match and like it or lump it he deserves his shot.

Vitali hasnt fought in a year and a half and this set back looks like it will be about 2 years without Vitali facing his mandatory. Ward must be loving this. Being stripped himself for not defending his WBC title within the timeframe.

Whats your thoughts lads?

Cheers

Dee!

DAVE667 wrote:TRUSSY, you're way way waaaaaay off the mark if you think haye doesn't want to fight Wlad again. After being humiliated last time round (much of it self inflicted in fairness) he wants nothing more than to try and make amends. Maybe, as others have alluded to, he doesn't think he can beat him but I think he knows he can give a much better account of himself.

He's called out Vitali constantly......I know you're a fanboy but he still thinks he's a superfighter when in all reality he bottled his biggest fight and his stock is lower overseas than Enron.....

He doesn't want Wlad or else he wouldn't be calling out Vitali...........and to say he is being ducked....well of course....119-108 is enough to make anybody terrified..

Stick up for more deserving fighters Mate..

Is not strictly true to say he has called out Vitali constantly. When the Wlad fight was struggling to get made Vitali made many a noise about stepping into the breach, calls which largely went unanswered. Has only really been interested in Vitali since Wlad slapped him about and Vitali is starting to show clear signs of regression as Truss rightly says.

I was talking post Wlad but I'll agree with everything else...

He doesn't want a rematch and he also thinks he's worth more than he is...

Doesn't hit home to him how awful he was to overseas fans.....

After being beaten and Boente et al mocking him about his injury, Haye knew he was going to get piddled about by Wlad for an immediate rematch (rightly so) but Vitali was the one making noises about wanting to KO Haye for having disrespected the family name etc etc. Haye said "Bring it on" (knowing it was an oppotunity to get himself another big fight even though, as you rightly say, his stock was at an all time low) However, Vitali's political aspirations took centre stage and I'm sure Haye could see that money slipping away. Of course he's going to resort to allegations of ducking to try and revive the fight.

Haye gets stick for bad mouthing the K's to get a fight yet Fury is deemed to be a cheeky character for bad mouthing Haye to get his fight. And I'm yet to see anyone give Vitali stick for calling out Lennox Lewis repeatedly even though Lewis was older than Vitali is now.

Make no mistake, Haye wants the Wlad fight (even if it's only to emulate your favourite take-the-money-and-runner, Nigel Benn). He'll employ whatever tactics he deems necessary even if it's the much ridiculed "fighting his way into contention".

Did Fury badmouth Haye??

DAVE667 wrote:After being beaten and Boente et al mocking him about his injury, Haye knew he was going to get piddled about by Wlad for an immediate rematch (rightly so) .

Are you his agent ????

He's a classless turd...........Who is to up-his-own-butt to realise he only appeals to British fans and isn't worth big money anywhere else....

I hope Fury knocks him out.....So he can go and "be a bigger actor than all the action stars like Vandamme, and be like Deniro" because in Hayemaker World acting is easy and Deniro got where he was with one/two years training...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I was talking post Wlad but I'll agree with everything else...

He doesn't want a rematch and he also thinks he's worth more than he is...

Doesn't hit home to him how awful he was to overseas fans.....

And it still hasn't hit home to Wlad just how dreadful he was when he fought Ibragimov in the USA. That fight was the sole reason the US decided to stop screening HW title fights. If you think Haye was poor against Wlad you need to rewatch that pile of cack against Sultan.

Haye still has a big UK fanbase despite his poor showing and Wlad still has a big European fanbase despite him being less than enthralling on occasion. Whoever Wlad fights, they'll turn up in their droves to watch, same with Haye. IF Haye secures a fight with Wlad, there'll be another 50,000 watching....they just won't get the box office viewers.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:After being beaten and Boente et al mocking him about his injury, Haye knew he was going to get piddled about by Wlad for an immediate rematch (rightly so) .

Are you his agent ????

He's a classless turd...........Who is to up-his-own-butt to realise he only appeals to British fans and isn't worth big money anywhere else....

I hope Fury knocks him out.....So he can go and "be a bigger actor than all the action stars like Vandamme, and be like Deniro" because in Hayemaker World acting is easy and Deniro got where he was with one/two years training...

Wrong side of bed today big fella? You sound as unhinged as STRONGBACK. Classless turd...classy!

Wlad has never run like a thief......

Watch the fight again Truss, I can assure you Haye didn't run - he was completely and utterly outclassed by a far superior boxer and had no plan B.

Not watching that "event" again..............won't call it a fight.....He was petrified.....

Haye won't fight either of the Klits again because the companies in America won't touch him after that garbage..

Haye thinks he's a big fighter.............and he is OVER HERE.........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Wlad has never run like a thief......

Nope but has been rolled like a drunk. He's also stunk the place or numerous occasions but had pundits calling it a very safety first/clinical performance as they're too terrified of losing their jobs to stand and screaming "Booooooring!!!"

Have to side with Jabby that, even as a "fanboy" Haye was out-thought that night and lacked an alternative gameplan. Very chastening experience for him and one we'd like to think he'd learn from however, there are certain posters who think he shouldn't be given another shot because "it's bound to be more of the same". Thanks for the objectivity fellas.

Dave I know you dont care for me much, but in all honesty if Haye earns it he deserves another shot like everyone else.

Truss you have to accept that if Haye earns a mandatory then fair play to him, and if he climbs in with Klitschko again through working his way through then fair play to him, doesnt sound like a man that is "afraid" and "running like a thief" to me....

Where have I said it isn't fair....You don't know what we are talking about do you..

Problem is that there's such anti-Haye feeling from some quarters that whatever he does, he's getting slated. He fights Charr and there's cries of "Who is he? Soft option" etc. He then signs to fight Fury who some nitwits are claiming is a future HW champion and its "Fury's a chump, you're ducking Charr." Then we discover there's a possibility that Vitali may be stripped of the belt and the WBC may in their infinite wisdom declare haye and Fury to be for the vacant belt despite Stiverne having a genuine claim to be next in line and once again haye's accused of sneaking his way to a World title fight.

I agree that simply nagging the K's for a fight is the wrong way to go about things but he fought and hammered Chisora who had (supposedly) aquitted himself well against Vitali, then he's fighting Fury and, even if the fight is only an eliminator for the title, I believe Haye wiill be prepared to fight whoever is installed as challenger.

Still, it's just not enough is it?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:TRUSSY, you're way way waaaaaay off the mark if you think haye doesn't want to fight Wlad again. After being humiliated last time round (much of it self inflicted in fairness) he wants nothing more than to try and make amends. Maybe, as others have alluded to, he doesn't think he can beat him but I think he knows he can give a much better account of himself.

He's called out Vitali constantly......I know you're a fanboy but he still thinks he's a superfighter when in all reality he bottled his biggest fight and his stock is lower overseas than Enron.....

He doesn't want Wlad or else he wouldn't be calling out Vitali...........and to say he is being ducked....well of course....119-108 is enough to make anybody terrified..

Stick up for more deserving fighters Mate..

The "Stick up for more deserving fighters mate" line may suggest that you feel Haye isnt deserved of a title shot.

So if Haye becomes mandatory is he or isnt he deserving Truss???

DAVE667 wrote:Problem is that there's such anti-Haye feeling from some quarters that whatever he does, he's getting slated. He fights Charr and there's cries of "Who is he? Soft option" etc. He then signs to fight Fury who some nitwits are claiming is a future HW champion and its "Fury's a chump, you're ducking Charr." Then we discover there's a possibility that Vitali may be stripped of the belt and the WBC may in their infinite wisdom declare haye and Fury to be for the vacant belt despite Stiverne having a genuine claim to be next in line and once again haye's accused of sneaking his way to a World title fight.

I agree that simply nagging the K's for a fight is the wrong way to go about things but he fought and hammered Chisora who had (supposedly) aquitted himself well against Vitali, then he's fighting Fury and, even if the fight is only an eliminator for the title, I believe Haye wiill be prepared to fight whoever is installed as challenger.

Still, it's just not enough is it?

Why shouldn't there be anti-Haye feeling Dave...........Some people must have saved for months to go to Germany..........To see a non-effort..

Then for him to say after he wasn't FIT !!......Isn't that taking money under false pretences...

and then classless like he is...Accuses a brother who had a ringside seat for the non-event of ducking him...

Shengy I'm not interested

Yeah agree with Dave again (amazingly), Haye has beaten Chisora and if he takes out Fury, who do people want him to fight after that?

Like or loathe the man, he does deserve perhaps another dig at a Klitschko......in all honesty you guys are a little hard on Haye.....its a weak division as we are all in agreement with, why not give him another pop?

shenglongreturns wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:TRUSSY, you're way way waaaaaay off the mark if you think haye doesn't want to fight Wlad again. After being humiliated last time round (much of it self inflicted in fairness) he wants nothing more than to try and make amends. Maybe, as others have alluded to, he doesn't think he can beat him but I think he knows he can give a much better account of himself.

He's called out Vitali constantly......I know you're a fanboy but he still thinks he's a superfighter when in all reality he bottled his biggest fight and his stock is lower overseas than Enron.....

He doesn't want Wlad or else he wouldn't be calling out Vitali...........and to say he is being ducked....well of course....119-108 is enough to make anybody terrified..

Stick up for more deserving fighters Mate..

The "Stick up for more deserving fighters mate" line may suggest that you feel Haye isnt deserved of a title shot.

So if Haye becomes mandatory is he or isnt he deserving Truss???

Chisora had lost his last three fights..............So a shutout loss and Chisora........

You didnt answer though:

So if Haye becomes mandatory is he or isnt he deserving Truss???

But you still can't name a bigger star or better boxer outside the K2's and Povetkin can you Truss?

The heavyweight scene is dire. We get it. But pouring xenophobic vitriol over Haye is pretty pointless when you can't name a single boxer more deserving of a shot or thats a bigger fighter.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:But you still can't name a bigger star or better boxer outside the K2's and Povetkin can you Truss?

The heavyweight scene is dire. We get it. But pouring xenophobic vitriol over Haye is pretty pointless when you can't name a single boxer more deserving of a shot or thats a bigger fighter.

Didn't you say you didn't want the wbc sanctioning Haye-Fury.

Still don't see you answering that question TRUSS. Irrespective of your anti-Haye feeling and the reasons for it (you've already admitted elsewhere you felt let down after backing him to win...so did I but I seem to have let it go) the questions are, if Haye becomes mandatory will he be deserving and if not, who else becomes a bigger draw?

I'd have him fight for the wbc title against Fury.............

But he is as deserving as everyone else.....Wilder...Stiverne etc...by default

It's the heavy division..

I dispute however that Chisora and a shutout against Wlad make him warrant a shot....

He warrants one because the division is pathetic..

If the WBC sanctions Haye vs Fury for number 1 contendership, its a joke because Stiverne has achieved that status fair and square. It should be an elimiator for who gets to face Stivene and then who fights for the then probably vacant title. So I agree with you on that, but facts are facts - Haye is the best boxer outside of the K2's and Povetkin.

"You can't name a better or bigger boxer out of K2s"

and yet If he gets a shot at the wbc you think it's a joke......

They aren't sanctioning Haye-Fury for wbc 1 contendership...It'd be for the title..

Stiverne could fight the winner....

Right or wrong if he beats Fury than he's done more than most to deserve another shot at Wlad. Chisora and Fury are both useless but wins over them at this moment in time actually means something, Thompson has worked his way back into a decent position just by beating Price says it all.

..and Thompson would be looking at a third crack at Wlad. Are we now saying THAT'S perfectly acceptable but for Haye to want another go, ISN'T?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:"You can't name a better or bigger boxer out of K2s"

and yet If he gets a shot at the wbc you think it's a joke......

They aren't sanctioning Haye-Fury for wbc 1 contendership...It'd be for the title..

Of course its a joke. being a bigger and better boxer doesn't automatically mean you deserve a shot you haven't worked for in my eyes. Otherwise we'd be seeing Billy Joe Saunders facing Martinez, Wilder vs Klitschko etc.

Got to earn the shot to deserve the shot

Think there is a distinction between whether we want to see it again or whether Haye would deserve a shot. For the former I have no interest as I saw nothing first time around to suggest there would be a different outcome and the first fight was a turgid old affair.

However, as pitiful a statement as this is, consecutive wins over Fury and Chisora represent about as good a couple of wins as anyone else can boast in the division so guess he deserves it as much as anyone.

So Haye doesn't deserve a shot JM ????

WTF are you talking about...

Haye warrants a shot because of the contenders around him... but beating Chisora who lost his last three fights and losing a shutout...Doesn't strike one as deserving..

Haye doesn't deserve a shot unless he beats Stiverne. Stiverne has earned his place and should be fighting for the title. We can't ignore that fact.

There you go Dave...Haye doesn't deserve a shot unless he beats Stiverne.....

If someone can tell me in the last 30 years when a guy has got a shot by beating the number 1 contender though I'd be happy..

Haye does warrant a shot...but like Stiverne and the rest he doesn't deserve one..

we are where we are.

Stiverne deserves the shot, he's beaten Ray Austin and won the "silver" title. Then went on to beat Arreola. He's earned his shot by jumping through the hoops. Haye hasn't.

He doesn't need to since Jose Sulaiman took a liking to him.

Haye was a wba champ and was in a superfight.......So how you can say Haye who has achieved more than Stiverne ever will is less "deserving" is remarkable..

Should Hagler have been stripped for Leonard ??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Haye was a wba champ and was in a superfight.......So how you can say Haye who has achieved more than Stiverne ever will is less "deserving" is remarkable..

Should Hagler have been stripped for Leonard ??

You're either making a mockery of the ENTIRE hierarchy of boxing or just being argumentative. If a fight is for the number 1 contender spot, then it should be that he gets his shot regardless of whoever suddenly pipes up and fancies a go because he used to be a champion.

If boxing was left in your hands Truss, it would be quite an ugly sight where boxers don't have the earn their shot, they just take them on past glories.

So Hagler should have fought Graham instead of Leonard..

By being the number one contender it doesn't mean that Haye and Fury can't fight for the title if it becomes vacant, the winner will just have to defend against Stiverne.

I take it you're just being argumentative. Cheer up Truss its Friday!

We can't compare Haye to Leonard. To even think about doing so has made my eyes sting.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:By being the number one contender it doesn't mean that Haye and Fury can't fight for the title if it becomes vacant, the winner will just have to defend against Stiverne.

And what have Haye and Fury achieved (recently) to make this worthy of a world title?

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I take it you're just being argumentative. Cheer up Truss its Friday!

We can't compare Haye to Leonard. To even think about doing so has made my eyes sting.

FFS you never give rebuttal........Yes I'm being argumentative because your argument stinks and you don't answer any questions..

Ali got a shot against Holmes..........He hadn't done anything for two years...

Holmes should fight Bobick instead ??

They are both ranked inside the top ten by the WBC I believe so would be a worthy match up for the title. Why can't we compare Leonard to Haye, if anything Haye deserves another shot at Wlad a lot more than Leonard did against Hagler, one unconvincing win in 5 years is worthy of a shot is it?

Your Wumming knows no bounds Truss, how about going over to ja606 and staying there with the rest of the morons where you will fit right in.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:By being the number one contender it doesn't mean that Haye and Fury can't fight for the title if it becomes vacant, the winner will just have to defend against Stiverne.

I'll ignore the d**k..........Thing is lots of no 1 contenders have been paid to step aside..

I'm sure stiverne would step aside..

It's how Haye got his initial shot against Valuev by promising Ruiz the winner, money talks it always has and always will.

It's what has always happened....

Number one contenders make money for doing nothing......

I think the general consensus will be that Haye and Leonard are a massive gulf apart in terms of why they got a shot. Ali is Ali. Leonard is Leonard.

Find me a period where the heavyweight scene stinks and pull out a comparison thats fair.