Nigel Benn - The best I've ever faced

First topic message reminder :

"The best I've ever faced" is a series that Ring Magazine run. It can be hit or miss depending on the subject, but I enjoyed this one with Nigel Benn

Fascinating to hear him talk about McClellan's power and how beat up he was after the fight. Also funny to hear him speak about Eubank with a hint of affection. Difficult to imagine when you think about the old footage of Benn seething as Chris delivers pretentious insults - "I personally do hate him" haha.

Anyway, I thought some of you would enjoy the read.

compelling and rich wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Using losing fights isn't a great way to bolster an argument.....

Mclellan was also doing very well before he became unhealthy..

Why did he become unhealthy ??

Eubank was 29 and in great shape.  I can't pick great wins after the first Collins fight because these aren't any but it is possible to put on credible losing performances, Ali v Frazier for instance.  Collins exposed Eubank twice.  Eubank was the best of the Brits, an also ran came over from America and beat him.  That tells the story.  Do you agree?


A fighter having a brain injury is very exception and is rarely the outcome in the  1000's and 1000's of fights that happen every year around the world.   The brain injury obviously indicated an underlying issue.  Some speculate McClellan was have problems long before he met Benn.

tyson was thirty and in good physical shape for the 1st holyfield fight

Remind me of when Eubank went to jail for years.


Collins an average fighter beat a very good version of Eubank in their first fight.

No other fighter I have mentioned would have lost to Collins. McCallum beat Collins up.

compelling and rich wrote:also quotes from fighters about the past have to be taken with a pinch of salt especially fighters who have humbled a lot since retiring. you ask big cuddly foreman about how he would do against previous atg and he would probably say they all beat him. far too nice

Eubank humble.......lol.


Watch his recent address at Oxford University, the mans ego has actually grown bigger over the years. If you have a problem with cringing don't watch his speech in the link below. My god the man is deluded. He's dressed as a priest.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxyCxQxxwcU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You are seriously over rating some of the 90's middleweights, McCallum was never a consistent middleweight so I can only imagine he'd be more inconsistent at super middleweight while the same is true of Nunn. McCallum was a world class light middleweight the best there has ever been but by the time he stepped up we had 12 round fights and he was ageing.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:You are seriously over rating some of the 90's middleweights, McCallum was never a consistent middleweight so I can only imagine he'd be more inconsistent at super middleweight while the same is true of Nunn. McCallum was a world class light middleweight the best there has ever been but by the time he stepped up we had 12 round fights and he was ageing.

McCallum was good enough to beat Collins barely losing a round. The defeats to Johnson and Kalambay also define Collins rating. Eubank then loses twice to this guy. There was so much hype around British middleweight fighting it became overrated. Collins proved it was a hype bubble.

Thing is I can't take your hyper biased diatribe seriously when you're discussing an Irish boxer.

I seem to remember collins wobbling on the ropes and eubank wasting time begging the ref to stop it.

ShahenshahG wrote:I seem to remember collins wobbling on the ropes and eubank wasting time begging the ref to stop it.

Eubank certainly had the talent to beat Collins but in two attempts he couldn't do it.

I followed Collins career he was very limited. I remember his being described as a dog at the time, not much skill but threw whatever he had at the opponent.

True but Eubank chose not to finish him off, it seems to support the evidence that he was much less than his best regardless of his physical condtion.

ShahenshahG wrote:True but Eubank chose not to finish him off, it seems to support the evidence that he was much less than his best regardless of his physical condtion.

Collins' chin was good enough to suggest Eubank may not have been able to finish him had he tried. Eubank is quoted many times saying he wanted to hurt Collins because he hated him. Collins was ahead on points when Eubank landed a good one.

I remember watching the 1st Eubank v Collins fight and beforehand not giving Collins much of a chance. As I watched the fight develop I realised Eubank just wasn't as good as the hype.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:Thing is I can't take your hyper biased diatribe seriously when you're discussing an Irish boxer.

I think "diatribe" is an overly harsh description of what I have written.

I've given my opinion and a debate started, all I did was defend my opinion. since the 1990's I have held the same view.

Collins being Irish has no bearing, I have already written Collins was very limited.

Strongback wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:True but Eubank chose not to finish him off, it seems to support the evidence that he was much less than his best regardless of his physical condtion.

Collins' chin was good enough to suggest Eubank may not have been able to finish him had he tried.  Eubank is quoted many times saying he wanted to hurt Collins because he hated him.  Collins was ahead on points when Eubank landed a good one.

I remember watching the 1st Eubank v Collins fight and beforehand not giving Collins much of a chance.  As I watched the fight develop I realised Eubank just wasn't as good as the hype.

Perhaps, but I think what we saw negates what he said. If he did truly hate him, he would have smashed him. Both benn and Eubank suffered mentally from the tragic occurences in their fights and it showed in their fights. I imagine if that fight was before Watson collins would be just a footnote.

ShahenshahG wrote:

Strongback wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:True but Eubank chose not to finish him off, it seems to support the evidence that he was much less than his best regardless of his physical condtion.

Collins' chin was good enough to suggest Eubank may not have been able to finish him had he tried.  Eubank is quoted many times saying he wanted to hurt Collins because he hated him.  Collins was ahead on points when Eubank landed a good one.

I remember watching the 1st Eubank v Collins fight and beforehand not giving Collins much of a chance.  As I watched the fight develop I realised Eubank just wasn't as good as the hype.

Perhaps, but I think what we saw negates what he said. If he did truly hate him, he would have smashed him. Both benn and Eubank suffered mentally from the tragic occurences in their fights and it showed in their fights. I imagine if that fight was before Watson collins would be just a footnote.

Spot on, it's as if we're meant to believe that the pair weren't affected mentally by nearly killing someone, Eubank in particular was never the same, his knockout % severely dropped and he laboured throughout the majority of his career. He did enough to survive in his fights but very rarely any more. The Eubank who beat Watson in their ill fated return would at least try to step on the gas at some point.

I would not be so adamant in my opinion if Eubank was not so overrated. Herol Graham was a greater talent in my view but unfortunately for him he was not part of that clique that fought on ITV. Eubank, Collins, Benn and to a lesser extent Watson made a lot of money fighting each other inside a hype bubble. People cannot completely ignore this or the superior operators that were around at the time.

Toney and Jones jr were probably a cut above but Toney could never be relied upon to turn up in shape. The others were probably on a par or only one step above - think you are overreacting a bit to the hype and putting them down too much, they were the chasing pack where Toney and Jones were the marker - no shame in that

McCallum beat Watson, Graham and Collins so that has to stand for something. Kalambay is another. Michael Nunn. In my view there were 5 five or more fighters in front of Eubank around middleweight.

McCallum scraped past Graham by the smallest of margins, he was good but he wasn't anything special at middleweight not to mention that the majority of Benn and Eubanks title careers were a division above. I think you're rating Kalambay that highly based purely on beating McCallum despite losing to Chris Pyatt, he was not a step above at all.

Benn in beating Barclay, De Witt, Malinga and Mcllelan showed that he belonged in the upper reaches of the division. Before you rubbish his win over Gman, it's worth remembering why that happened to him, Benn beat him into a coma with his never say die attitude, not many would have survived that first round.

Eubank had Watson, Benn, Holmes, Rocchigiani and Malinga.

Neither of them had the record of average fighters who didn't belong at the top, Toney, McCallum and Nunn may have had more talent but they didn't always show it and were more than beatable.

Kalambay beat Graham, Barkley, DeWitt, Simms and McCallum.

Can you say McClellan did not have an underlying problem? No you can't.

Eubank's record is average for a World Champ because he didn't fight the better fighters campaigning at the time. The WBO belt wasn't taken seriously at that time either.

You mean the men a division below him? You talk so much garbage, if only they were Irish and they'd be the best thing since sliced bread.

Is there any evidence to suggest he had any neurological problems going into the fight and consider every boxer has scans before a fight.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:You mean the men a division below him? You talk so much garbage, if only they were Irish and they'd be the best thing since sliced bread.

Is there any evidence to suggest he had any neurological problems going into the fight and consider every boxer has scans before a fight.

What men like Jones Jr, Toney and Hopkins that Eubank didn't face? The last few post of mine are on whether Eubank was top rank in the 2nd tier.

Where have I been complimentary towards Collins? Shows the weakness of your argument when you have to pull Trussy's "Irish" jibe every time your argument hits a brick wall of fact.

Are you a consultant neurologist? if not stop talking about things you know nothing about before you embarrass yourself further.

I'm not the one taking it as gospel that he had problems going into the fight which reading up on it there is nothing to suggest he did, all reports after the fight mention the heavy battering his brain would have taken throughout. If you can provide any proof that it was a longstanding issue then please show me but if you can't then i'll still regard it as a great win for Benn.

Eubank stepped up to 168lbs in 1991 and it wasn't until 1994 that Toney and Jones stepped up, Hopkins isn't a consideration at all for two reasons, he wasn't highly rated until the late 90's and competed exclusively at middleweight until he was an old man. A fight with Jones was possible in early 95 and that's about it and by this point Toney was having a lot of trouble making weight also. There was a very small window of opportunity and neither were going to travel over here and money wise it made little sense for Benn or Eubank to travel to America.

You can't say if there were underlying brain issues or not. Many people are struck down by strokes and aneurysm who have never got punched in the head. Winning by the opponent having a brain injury, especially as McClellan had been battering Benn, is a tragedy and very bad luck. How you see this is a great win is beyond me.


All these big name fights could have been made at middle and super middle. They did not happen because ITV created a hype bubble and money around 2nd tier fighters who were fighting for a poorly recognised WBO belt that the American's could not care less about. At least Benn went after the proper belts. His wins say more about Eubanks ability than Eubanks own achievements which is pretty sad considering the riches and glories that were in the sport at middle/ smw at that time.

Have you seen the fight or are you just guessing because other than the first round which Benn did well to survive it was very even, i'd be happy to say the number of heavy blows he took to the head played a significant part in his injuries.

He stepped up because he outgrew 160lbs so any prospective fights would have had to have been made at 168lbs and the window for that was very small, it takes two to tango and the americans were for the large part also happy fighting outmatched opponents in their own backyard.

You are happy to say it was only Benn's blows that created the problem. If you can write a few papers backing this up you might well be in line for a Nobel Prize for medicine.

If money and a proper belt were on the line Hopkins would have taken pleasure battering Eubank and Benn. Hopkins fought Jones Jr in 1993 btw.

Why do you think Mayweather stepped up to fight Oscar or now Canelo???

Strongback wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I see Benn always struggling with Collins at 168..........If you took Benn's shot he wasn't that great at pacing himself..

Collins, who wasn't all that in America, spotted the amount of money Eubank, Watson and Benn were making fighting each other and decided he wanted a piece of the pie.  Collins rolled into town and beat a prime 29 year old Eubank having the effect of putting a pin Tinkywinky in the hype bubble that surrounded British middleweight boxing/ ITV television at the time.

A healthy McClellan would have finished off Benn.  Anybody bar an impartial Benn fan can see McClellan's facial expressions were bizarre.  Rewatching the fight knowing the outcome really emphasises McClellans plight.

outrageously bad comment. the worst i've read on 606 on many levels. prime eubank? watch the mcclellan jackson fights. gum shield & out blinking. interview before benn fight, blinking. the guy had a tick. both guys got a pasting and one wasn't strong enough to take it. not nice but mcclellan went out to hurt people. just came up against someone who wasn't going to be bullied

Can you provide any evidence at all that is was an existing injury or are you just going to act like an ass instead?

Hopkins did fight Jones in 1993 but who exactly was he back then? It wasn't until the very late 90's that he started to get any plaudits as a world class operator and it's hard to believe he would step up to face either Benn or Eubank when he was in the process of rebuilding his career, he won his first title in 1995 he was a non entity at the time.

Mayweather stepped up for the money and knowing he'll win, Hopkins WOULD have had to cross the Atlantic to fight the pair something he wouldn't have done in a million years, he didn't have the prestige to lure either over with a big purse either.

seanmichaels wrote:

Strongback wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I see Benn always struggling with Collins at 168..........If you took Benn's shot he wasn't that great at pacing himself..

Collins, who wasn't all that in America, spotted the amount of money Eubank, Watson and Benn were making fighting each other and decided he wanted a piece of the pie.  Collins rolled into town and beat a prime 29 year old Eubank having the effect of putting a pin Tinkywinky in the hype bubble that surrounded British middleweight boxing/ ITV television at the time.

A healthy McClellan would have finished off Benn.  Anybody bar an impartial Benn fan can see McClellan's facial expressions were bizarre.  Rewatching the fight knowing the outcome really emphasises McClellans plight.

outrageously bad comment. the worst i've read on 606 on many levels. prime eubank? watch the mcclellan jackson fights. gum shield & out blinking. interview before benn fight, blinking. the guy had a tick. both guys got a pasting and one wasn't strong enough to take it. not nice but mcclellan went out to hurt people. just came up against someone who wasn't going to be bullied

Another consultant neurologist. The truth is Sean you don't know what was going on with McClellan, you are purely speculating. What we do know is that McCleloan suffered a catastrophic brain injury which is not a very common injury in boxing considering the 1000's and 1000's of fights that happen around the world each year.


Collins beat a very good version of Eubank. I know because I can remember watching the fights live and I have rewatched them since.


Its seems criticising Eubank or Benn is sacrilege such is their standing in the mindset of the collective British public. I'm sure the American's have their own views. As for the worst comment ever on 606..........have a word with yourself.

Watch those videos mate and if you don't i'll post them when I'm off the red. Collins beat a very good version of Eubank? The same Eubank who wouldn't finish the Collins who was searching for the ropes like a drunk? Watch it again mate.

Get outta here strongy!. Clueless over this fight!

Benn was getting battered??, A healthy Mcclellan would have finished Benn off??

Apart from the first round Benn was more than competitive and was giving just as much as he was taking. In no way was getting "battered"

To then to say a healthy Mcclellan would have finished Benn off is again disrespectful to Benn's performance.

Yes it was a tragedy what happened but it shouldnt be used against Benn as he put in one of the bravest performances seen in a British ring.

Ha, was wondering when you'd come to nigel's aid Haito. You are right though, it was a brutal fight and pretty even after the first.

Haito wrote:Get outta here strongy!. Clueless over this fight!

Benn was getting battered??, A healthy Mcclellan would have finished Benn off??

Apart from the first round Benn was more than competitive and was giving just as much as he was taking. In no way was getting "battered"

To then to say a healthy Mcclellan would have finished Benn off is again disrespectful to Benn's performance.

Yes it was a tragedy what happened but it shouldnt be used against Benn as he put in one of the bravest performances seen in a British ring.

Objective as ever when it comes to the Dark Destroyer.

I was a big Benn fan and really looked forward to his fights.

Benn did well in beating a guy that had a brain injury. I'll never get that logic.

McClellan was ahead on the scorecards despite looking totally disorientated for a couple of rounds before the finish.

You know my line on this as you've seen me write it before.

1 judge had Benn ahead, 2 had Mcclellan so as i said previously the fight was close and one Benn was 100% capable of winning.He was not getting "battered".

Nobody knows for certain when Mcclellans injury started not even you. What is apparent though is Gman was not showing any ill signs in terms of performance until the later rounds it was an end to end tear up. It was a Benn uppercut which accelerated the problem which lead to his symptoms becoming more obvious.

The fight ended tragically and nobody wants to see that in the ring but for you to be the only one on the forum to totally ignore the sheer courage and determination Benn showed that night shows that your the one not been objective.

Mornin Haito - like yourself, I'm not a medical expert and think speculation on whether McLellan was injured before the fight or not takes something away from what he did to come back from that first round.

It's quite possible that there was an underlying issue/threat with Gerald and the war Benn dragged him into that night triggered a more serious manifestation of it. I mean, he didn't look very injured in the first when he was smashing Benn round the ring and through the ropes, did he?

All we know is that as far as Benn would have been concerned at the time, he was in with a fully-fit opponent who hit like a train and quickly demonstrated how sickening his power could be. To come out of that round and then take the fight to G-Man took real balls (and some slightly generous refereeing it should be said).

Rounds 2-8 were like basketball with violence, proper end-to-end stuff. Watching it again, you can see something isn't quite right in the 9th and Benn finishes it in the 10th.

Morning Cast.

Exactly.

The fight was an out and out war for 8 rounds with both men not giving an inch. Nobody will 100% know when Gmans injury occurred we can only go on the fight itself.

It only became really noticeable Mcclellan wasnt right after Benn landed that huge uppercut. His work rate dropped, blinking became very obvious and his gum sheild was hanging out his mouth so something wasnt right. Im not saying the uppercut was the cause but like you say it accelerated it ten fold. Gman dropped off the cliff and tragically we now know why.

Rounds 1-8 though Benn was in the fight of his life and to discredit Benn the way Strongy does is very harsh as you will be hard pushed to see a fighter did as deep as Benn did that night.

That fight we all know tragically effected Mcclellan. But it also finished Benn as a fighter. He was a shadow of who he was in the fights after.

No argument there - if there was an underlying health risk then getting into that sort of war is going to accelerate it bigtime, just as over-working or serious stress can bring medical issues to the fore.

Both men took some serious punishment in there - I'm pretty sure Benn passed out shortly after the fight was over and had to spend the night in hospital himself?

It basically took everything he had left at the bottom of the well for Benn to turn that fight around. Like you say, there was nothing left for the next moment of adversity and he was lucky that Nardiello (quite hilariously) and Perez lost their way after making pretty good starts against him.

Malinga was tougher than either of them and wasn't going to let Benn off. Can't believe one judge actually had Benn winning that, although I also have Malinga winning both their fights quite handily in reality.

Yep passed out, was urinating blood for 5 days a d had a shadow on his brain. When he did return your right he struggled lethargically against nardiello and perez who were very average at best, he then lost to Malinga who lost straight after to Woodhall, Benn also admitted having to put 100k on himself to beat Collins because his motivation was waining. The writing was on the wall really but 2 wars with iron chinned Eubank and the brutal Mcclellan fight were always going to take a toll on Benn who lets face it wasnt hard to find with punches!

Just think its a shame when the way Benn cameback to beat Gman gets overlooked because of the tragedy of Mcclellan.

Benn said it himself... It was his defining fight, but you can't talk about it as a great fight because of what happened to McClellan.

I was there and only watched a vid of it last year for the first time. It's hard to reconcile screaming for benn to kill him, and then feel too good about yourself when he almost does.

Picked up the latest issue this morning at the airport and there's a little feature on a few British fighters and their favourite music, films etc

Scott Quigg's favourite film of all time is Pretty Woman   

Group Cpt Lionel Mandrake wrote:Picked up the latest issue this morning at the airport and there's a little feature on a few British fighters and their favourite music, films etc

Scott Quigg's favourite film of all time is Pretty Woman   

its probably why he's such a good boxer, would have had to fight off the bullies with film taste like that!!