Cleverly: Retirement/Future and some observations.

During a recent interview with BBC Sport, Nathan Cleverly has hinted at an early retirement following his loss over the weekend (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wales/23746523).

I'm not one to knock a guy following a loss, I'm certainly not about to start, but I have to admire Nathan and his honesty here. Whilst, at the same time, silently judging him for taking the easy way out...

Let's look at this objectively.

Nathan is still VERY young and just lost by TKO against a well known dangerous puncher... I wouldn't say he was embarrassed at all. I don't want to draw comparisons, but let's look at Amir Khan: Lost by savage KO, learnt under a new coach and became World Champ. Yes, he's suffered another loss by KO, but he's still on the scene.

Where to for Clev? Only he knows, but if he continues in Boxing he needs to make one clear decision... Remove his Father from the corner.

Sometimes, having your Father as the coach/trainer works (Mayweather, Calzaghe) but there's a reason - they're Sons are incredibly talented and, to be honest, they could have probably been with anyone else and performed just as well. That said, the advice Enzo Calzaghe or Roger/Floyd Snr give their charges in the 60 seconds they have has always been top notch...

In the crucial 60 seconds Vince had with Nathan between the 3rd and 4th, Vince gave little to NO advice. His instinct as a FATHER took over, his worry outweighed his abilty to take charge and clear his Sons head. This hasn't been the first time. I've always been critical of Vince Cleverly, not because of any lack of boxing knowledge, but due to his clear inability to ADVISE his charge on a game plan... in that 60 seconds between the 3rd and the 4th, all I heard him say was "Come on Nath?! Come ON!" - Hardly the advice you'd expect Cus D'amato or Brother Naseem Richardson to be shouting?

The truth is, if Nathan wants to continue, he needs to remove his Micky Mouse team of smiling yes men and have a corner who are able to revert him back to the long range boxer he used to be. He hasn't the power to be phonebox fighting, but he has the speed and the energy to fight 12 rounds at range.

His Father and some easy wins over nurses have encouraged him to become a Swarmer and look/force for Knock Outs - this is his weakness, and although he wasn't fighting this style at the point of the Knock Out, I can guarantee you he would have ended up fighting this style eventually.

Cleverly: Retire or not it's up to you, you've accepted you may lack the power at World Level so feel it's an option to retire. But if you want to continue, use your head and get a BOXING Coach and not a Father with stars in his eyes.

I don't think he'll retire. He'll probably take a break for a few months, and then come back fresh - he's only 26 after all.

On BBC Sport today are these quotes:

"I will have a holiday now and recover and see where I go from here and see what I want to do in life now," said Cleverly.

"I will go away and live a normal life for a bit now. Just leave boxing for a bit - it has been an intense period.

"You know six weeks into that where you want to go. Your instincts tell you if you are missing boxing, or are you going to find another career path. Who knows where my heart is going to lie?

"If I continue, I will come back and give it a go. But the background I have got and the brain I have got, do I really need to continue? It could go either way, my career."



Having things go wrong for you in life can be a sickening blow and some people never come back from that. Naseem Hamad is a classic example of this.

There are loads of quotes on this here are some:


"You can learn a line from a win and a book from a defeat."


"It is defeat that turns bone to flint; it is defeat that turns gristle to muscle; it is defeat that makes men invincible."


"We may encounter many defeats but we must not be defeated."

But the background and brain I've got.......................

How patronising to his fellow boxers.......

Run a long Mate and use your brain..........After all you've used it well avoiding quality and making good money.....for years

Must be something in the water in Wales..

Has he made good money though?

How much does Frank make in ticket sales off Cleverly?

How many people subscribe to BoxNation to watch Cleverly, not many is my guess.

I'd say cleverly has only made domestic/Euro type money which wasn't enough to allow Munroe to give up the bins.

He'll be paid a fair whack as he was one of the last items in Warren's stable....

He must have been well paid for Bellew as he was top of a big bill........and he'd have been paid the same or more ever since..

He'd be well off...........

Think you’re over-egging the pudding with the Khan comparison there.  Khan was an actual young fighter (aged 21) on the up and his trajectory took a knock.  Clev is/was 26 (the same age Khan is now), already a ‘world champion’ with, technically, multiple defences under his belt.  Also, whilst Khan’s was still humbling, a quick blowout like that allows room for ‘caught cold’ excuses and naivety of youth, Clev has none of that – he was destroyed over four and thoroughly shown up.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Think you’re over-egging the pudding with the Khan comparison there.  Khan was an actual young fighter (aged 21) on the up and his trajectory took a knock.  Clev is/was 26 (the same age Khan is now), already a ‘world champion’ with, technically, multiple defences under his belt.  Also, whilst Khan’s was still humbling, a quick blowout like that allows room for ‘caught cold’ excuses and naivety of youth, Clev has none of that – he was destroyed over four and thoroughly shown up.

True....The manner of the defeat was most enlightening.....Khan tends to dominate and then get caught.

Not sure I would like him to retire as he is only 26 and Kovalev obviously hits hard enough to take a guy out if he connects. Think he is doing the right thing though in taking a bit of time in seeing if his heart is still in it because boxing is a pretty unforgiving game if you are not 100% committed.

Think he needs to make some tough decisions though. As others have said the advice he was receiving in the corner after the third rounds hardly conjured up images of Dundee or Futch, he needed calm sensible advice on how to muddle through a crisis, he got clichés. Also needs to decide what he wants from his career. Most agree he has stagnated a little over the last few years. Has taken too many unnecessary punches in pretty much all his defences and has got away with it solely because he has not fought anyone capable of exploiting it until Saturday.

Nathan is clearly a smart kid and has options outside of boxing but would hope he continues as still believe he has enough talent to rebuild but coming back from such a crushing defeat will not happen overnight and will certainly not be done by bowling the Karpency’s of this world over.

Warren is his promoter...Rowley.

Maybe he is better of retiring..because Karpency is probably considered too high risk now.

His brain obviously isn't anything special, he got a 2:2 at uni if I remember correctly. Hardly something to shout from the roof tops.

He got a 2:2 in Mathematics whilst also boxing full time. Suggests he is not stupid. Obviously in the company of all the PhD holders and Mensa members that frequent this board he comes up a bit short but lets not judge him by such exacting standards.

i think clev will come back because i doubt he wants that fight to be his legacy in boxing

His education is to be applauded.......I was never any good at Maths.......Struggled through Psychology..

My biggest love was history though...Straight A student.....If there was more money in the subject I'd have studied that...

Had my time again I'd have taken Sports psychology instead of Industrial..........

What happens when your head rules your heart..

Cleverly isn't too good for the sport though...he should remember that..

I wonder if the noises for a Clev vs Maccarinelli fight will be louder now he's been well and truely beaten, it could even be a nice little earner for them both, providing Maccarinelli doesn't get ko'd again in his first defence,

I wonder if we'll even get Maccarinelli vs Kovalev.....................

Rowley wrote:He got a 2:2 in Mathematics whilst also boxing full time. Suggests he is not stupid. Obviously in the company of all the PhD holders and Mensa members that frequent this board he comes up a bit short but lets not judge him by such exacting standards.

Pah. You get loads of time off in boxing.

Welsh rugby player, Jamie Roberts, managed to get a medical degree whilst playing club and international rugby. Far more outstanding achievement.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:His education is to be applauded.......I was never any good at Maths.......Struggled through Psychology..

My biggest love was history though...Straight A student.....If there was more money in the subject I'd have studied that...

Had my time again I'd have taken Sports psychology instead of Industrial..........

What happens when your head rules your heart..

Cleverly isn't too good for the sport though...he should remember that..

More likely "What happens when Warren's wallet rules your heart AND head."

It's easy when something goes wrong to think the grass will be greener on the other side.

Cleverly would probably end up a teacher or something similarly glamourous.

tommyhearnsprodigalson wrote:I wonder if the noises for a Clev vs Maccarinelli fight will be louder now he's been well and truely beaten, it could even be a nice little earner for them both, providing Maccarinelli doesn't get ko'd again in his first defence,

I wonder if we'll even get Maccarinelli vs Kovalev.....................

Let's hope not!! Kovalev has got much bigger fish to fry

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Rowley wrote:He got a 2:2 in Mathematics whilst also boxing full time. Suggests he is not stupid. Obviously in the company of all the PhD holders and Mensa members that frequent this board he comes up a bit short but lets not judge him by such exacting standards.

Pah.  You get loads of time off in boxing.

Welsh rugby player, Jamie Roberts, managed to get a medical degree whilst playing club and international rugby.  Far more outstanding achievement.

 

Well done him then, don't recall saying Cleverly's acheivement stood as the greatest ever sporting/academic based achievement so not sure what the acheivements of Mr Roberts have to do with anything but always nice to learn something new, even if it is about a sport/subject I have little to no interest in.

Personally I think Clev was embarrassed. He was beaten from pillar to post from round 1. I said to my mate after the first that the fight was over. Can he come back? Yes, but talent is talent and I don't seehim ever being right up there because he has neglected certain aspects of the sport for years. He must get rid of his father, regardless. He doesn't seem to do anything for him at all.

Here is an interview with Nathan Cleverly after the fight

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/latest/feature/nathan-cleverly-reflects-on-crushing-loss-to-sergey-kovalev-i-remember-thinking-if-he-catches-me-i-m-gone

You should have been born in Wales Rowley !!.Not only would you get a good degree...you could spend quality time with Steffan..

Rowley wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

Rowley wrote:He got a 2:2 in Mathematics whilst also boxing full time. Suggests he is not stupid. Obviously in the company of all the PhD holders and Mensa members that frequent this board he comes up a bit short but lets not judge him by such exacting standards.

Pah.  You get loads of time off in boxing.

Welsh rugby player, Jamie Roberts, managed to get a medical degree whilst playing club and international rugby.  Far more outstanding achievement.

 

Well done him then, don't recall saying Cleverly's acheivement stood as the greatest ever sporting/academic based achievement so not sure what the acheivements of Mr Roberts have to do with anything but always nice to learn something new, even if it is about a sport/subject I have little to no interest in.

Get you.

Rowley wrote:He got a 2:2 in Mathematics whilst also boxing full time. Suggests he is not stupid. Obviously in the company of all the PhD holders and Mensa members that frequent this board he comes up a bit short but lets not judge him by such exacting standards.

He probably isn't stupid. But a 2:2 isn't anything to write home about, even if it is in mathematics.

Now the real interesting bit, do we actually have PHD members?

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Rowley wrote:He got a 2:2 in Mathematics whilst also boxing full time. Suggests he is not stupid. Obviously in the company of all the PhD holders and Mensa members that frequent this board he comes up a bit short but lets not judge him by such exacting standards.

He probably isn't stupid. But a 2:2 isn't anything to write home about, even if it is in mathematics.

Now the real interesting bit, do we actually have PHD members?

Yeah STRONGBACK (if PHD stands for POSTING HYSTERICAL DROSS)

Lumbering_Jack wrote:
Now the real interesting bit, do we actually have PHD members?

I assume we have 100's with how fast we all tend to be to dismiss Cleverly's qualifications whenever the subject arises.

At the end of the day........Does he want to teach Maths to a bunch of ungrateful whippersnappers who he can't smack...

Or make decent money with a bunch of guys he can smack....

He'll be back...............Just like Arnie..

Lumbering_Jack wrote:His brain obviously isn't anything special, he got a 2:2 at uni if I remember correctly. Hardly something to shout from the roof tops.

And it was only Cardiff Uni.......even worse than Keele!

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:His brain obviously isn't anything special, he got a 2:2 at uni if I remember correctly. Hardly something to shout from the roof tops.

And it was only Cardiff Uni.......even worse than Keele!

Not hard though, Keele was only a Poly.

Rowley wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:
Now the real interesting bit, do we actually have PHD members?

I assume we have 100's with how fast we all tend to be to dismiss Cleverly's qualifications whenever the subject arises.

We also dismiss boxers who operate at a far higher level than any of us are capable of (apart from Jabby). You don't have to be more qualified than someone to realise what they have qualification wise is just a bit shabby.

It today's job market with his degree and personality he'd be lucky to get a job.

TBH when he got beat so easily, my first reaction was that I was glad that a protected paper champion had been found out... too many weak "champions" around, etc.

But on reflection, a day or so later, I felt differently. A man's dreams have been shattered. The realisation that he's so far below the top level must hurt more than any of the punches he took on Saturday night. It's not nice to see, I really feel for the guy. I really hope he carries on and chalks up some good wins - even though he will possibly never be a legit world champ, he can still have a good career and hold his head high.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:His brain obviously isn't anything special, he got a 2:2 at uni if I remember correctly. Hardly something to shout from the roof tops.

And it was only Cardiff Uni.......even worse than Keele!

Not hard though, Keele was only a Poly.

Wonder If they have Universities in downtown Spain..

If memory serves me correct, Tino ditched Uni and worked his way up from tea-boy to hedge funder....

"Of course, everybody is talking about Kovalev's power, but if anybody is going to get stopped, it'll be Kovalev. He'll (Clev) KO Kovalev 100 percent."

- Vince Cleverly

"I'll beat him with skill and heart. I can outbox him, and people will be surprised when I'm going toe-to-toe with him and knock him out."

- Nathan Cleverly

 

You'd think after so many fights Nathan and his dad would realise that the poor lad is feather-fisted and would adjust their tactics to accommodate Nathan's attributes rather than play against them.

TopHat24/7 wrote:If memory serves me correct, Tino ditched Uni and worked his way up from tea-boy to hedge funder....

Thought he worked in scrap metal?

His bubble's burst.

Regardless of who he's fought before in his head he's the next Calzaghe, they're friends & countrymen with the same promotor, WBO title & defending against cans most of the time, when people knock Cleverley for who he's fought (or not fought) he would look at Calzaghe's career who they said the same about, & think he's on the right path & now he's been wiped out so easily it's hitting home that he's never going to be the man in the division.

Bitter pill to swallow, but he has many more options than most other fighters & has never struck me as someone who is in love with the game so wouldn't be surprised if he does retire, maybe not yet but after a couple more fights

TopHat24/7 wrote:If memory serves me correct, Tino ditched Uni and worked his way up from tea-boy to hedge funder....

Hope for DAVE yet then....

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:If memory serves me correct, Tino ditched Uni and worked his way up from tea-boy to hedge funder....

Hope for DAVE yet then....

But Dave doesn't have the charm, wit and natural zest for life that I have.

I'm sure you're really American.. 

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm sure you're really American.. 

I understand irony.

and you can spell it too......I'm impressed. 

DAVE667 wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Rowley wrote:He got a 2:2 in Mathematics whilst also boxing full time. Suggests he is not stupid. Obviously in the company of all the PhD holders and Mensa members that frequent this board he comes up a bit short but lets not judge him by such exacting standards.

He probably isn't stupid. But a 2:2 isn't anything to write home about, even if it is in mathematics.

Now the real interesting bit, do we actually have PHD members?

Yeah STRONGBACK (if PHD stands for POSTING HYSTERICAL DROSS)

I did start a PhD but decided to finish up after a year qualifying with an MPhil.


Posters with PhD's? I have a vague memory that Fearless Bamber has one.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:His education is to be applauded.......I was never any good at Maths.......Struggled through Psychology..

My biggest love was history though...Straight A student.....If there was more money in the subject I'd have studied that...

Had my time again I'd have taken Sports psychology instead of Industrial..........

What happens when your head rules your heart..

Cleverly isn't too good for the sport though...he should remember that..

Life story.. zzzzz

Wasn't there a poster called Oxy, or something, who was studying medicine at Oxford? Basically the same thing.

I turned down an offer of a fully funded PhD from Reading following my Masters as I couldn't bear spending another 3 weeks let alone 3 years in that god-awful town!!

Also, Strongy, what was your MPhil in, out of interest?

Oxy...I'm sure he was studying medicine......

Oxy was indeed studying medicine. Believe he was approaching his finals, hence his prolonged absence from the boards.

What kind of dumbass excuse is that..

He could've sat his finals and re-sat them twice in this 'prolonged absence' by now.....

Didn't Toppy take his place as a moderator..

Better pm him.......Tell him he's got his JOB back !!