Cleverly: Retirement/Future and some observations.

First topic message reminder :

During a recent interview with BBC Sport, Nathan Cleverly has hinted at an early retirement following his loss over the weekend (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/wales/23746523).

I'm not one to knock a guy following a loss, I'm certainly not about to start, but I have to admire Nathan and his honesty here. Whilst, at the same time, silently judging him for taking the easy way out...

Let's look at this objectively.

Nathan is still VERY young and just lost by TKO against a well known dangerous puncher... I wouldn't say he was embarrassed at all. I don't want to draw comparisons, but let's look at Amir Khan: Lost by savage KO, learnt under a new coach and became World Champ. Yes, he's suffered another loss by KO, but he's still on the scene.

Where to for Clev? Only he knows, but if he continues in Boxing he needs to make one clear decision... Remove his Father from the corner.

Sometimes, having your Father as the coach/trainer works (Mayweather, Calzaghe) but there's a reason - they're Sons are incredibly talented and, to be honest, they could have probably been with anyone else and performed just as well. That said, the advice Enzo Calzaghe or Roger/Floyd Snr give their charges in the 60 seconds they have has always been top notch...

In the crucial 60 seconds Vince had with Nathan between the 3rd and 4th, Vince gave little to NO advice. His instinct as a FATHER took over, his worry outweighed his abilty to take charge and clear his Sons head. This hasn't been the first time. I've always been critical of Vince Cleverly, not because of any lack of boxing knowledge, but due to his clear inability to ADVISE his charge on a game plan... in that 60 seconds between the 3rd and the 4th, all I heard him say was "Come on Nath?! Come ON!" - Hardly the advice you'd expect Cus D'amato or Brother Naseem Richardson to be shouting?

The truth is, if Nathan wants to continue, he needs to remove his Micky Mouse team of smiling yes men and have a corner who are able to revert him back to the long range boxer he used to be. He hasn't the power to be phonebox fighting, but he has the speed and the energy to fight 12 rounds at range.

His Father and some easy wins over nurses have encouraged him to become a Swarmer and look/force for Knock Outs - this is his weakness, and although he wasn't fighting this style at the point of the Knock Out, I can guarantee you he would have ended up fighting this style eventually.

Cleverly: Retire or not it's up to you, you've accepted you may lack the power at World Level so feel it's an option to retire. But if you want to continue, use your head and get a BOXING Coach and not a Father with stars in his eyes.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Also, Strongy, what was your MPhil in, out of interest?

Engineering

TopHat24/7 wrote:He could've sat his finals and re-sat them twice in this 'prolonged absence' by now.....

Maybe he has got a job and realised there are more productive ways to spend his time. I don't bleeding know.

Haha no, thank-you, Mr Trussman, I was given a 'fresh' position purely for N&CA bored until it was closed

Strongback wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Also, Strongy, what was your MPhil in, out of interest?

Engineering

Wow, loads of engineers on here! STC and Rodders are too, plus a few more from memory.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Haha no, thank-you, Mr Trussman, I was given a 'fresh' position purely for N&CA bored until it was closed

If I was being cruel I would make some comment about a correlation there but it is beneath me so I won't bother.

Well done Rowley this board needs more class...

I'm sick of carrying it..

Rowley wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Haha no, thank-you, Mr Trussman, I was given a 'fresh' position purely for N&CA bored until it was closed

If I was being cruel I would make some comment about a correlation there but it is beneath me so I won't bother.

Haha what can I say, the truth hurts sometimes!

emancipator wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:His education is to be applauded.......I was never any good at Maths.......Struggled through Psychology..

My biggest love was history though...Straight A student.....If there was more money in the subject I'd have studied that...

Had my time again I'd have taken Sports psychology instead of Industrial..........

What happens when your head rules your heart..

Cleverly isn't too good for the sport though...he should remember that..

Life story.. zzzzz

You must be getting soft.. or maybe a bit senile  

No money in Archaeology but im studying it anyway. To be honest I have come back off this excavation with really bad knees and back. Commercial Archaeology has a short career span because the money is poor, people get health problems and sick of sleeping in caravans etc all the time. I will probably go into Heritage/Museum Mangament which is what I do as part of my degree anyway

I always knew Truss was a sellout at heart

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Well done Rowley this board needs more class...

I'm sick of carrying it..

What has your backside got to do with the quality of posters here?

Seems to a lot of talk around the net about Terry O'Connor carrying Cleverly back to the corner at the end of the third. Rewatching it I agree, he is taking the weight off Cleverly's feet.

Roy Jones Jr in the commentary called it "home town cookin".


Here's the HBO broadcast for anybody who hasn't seen it. They reckon Kovalev was getting tired.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=63lfPrLvMmA&desktop_uri=/watch?v=63lfPrLvMmA

Strongback wrote:Seems to a lot of talk around the net about Terry O'Connor carrying Cleverly back to the corner at the end of the third. Rewatching it I agree, he is taking the weight off Cleverly's feet.

Roy Jones Jr in the commentary called it "home town cookin".


Here's the HBO broadcast for anybody who hasn't seen it.  They reckon Kovalev was getting tired.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=63lfPrLvMmA&desktop_uri=/watch?v=63lfPrLvMmA

RJJ: Better finish it now or he'll be in trouble in 2 or 3 rounds......

It was home cooking alright, if he wanted to do clev a favour he should have halted it in the 3rd. It wasn't like clev was easing himself into the fight. He wad getting beaten up.

I have a message to Clev:

Listen. It's quiet, isn't it? When you retire, it's too quiet. Your too young to retire, anyway.

Look, man. When you beat Tony Bellew, he hurt all over. He didn't wanna know from nobody, not even his kids.

Every fighter knows that hurt (except unbeaten ones ofcourse). They get sick inside trying to live with it, so don't back off now.

Make it right for yourself or you'll be sorry you didn't. You held the greatest title in the whole world.

You lost that fight for all the wrong reasons. You lost your edge. All right. I know your father training you had you all messed up inside.

But the truth is you didn't look hungry. Now when you fought Bellew, you had that eye of the tiger, man, the edge.

Now you gotta get it back, and the way to do it is to go back to the beginning...

Interesting viewpoint from Jones that Kovalev was tiring, it wasn't something that crossed my mind at the time but watching it back there are times in between the knockdowns where he is breathing heavily. It may be something of nothing but something to consider nonetheless.

Steffan wrote: You held the greatest title in the whole world.

What the Vacant WBO World Light Heavyweight title? Is the greatest title in the world in much the same way as Police Academy is the Greatest Film in the world.

Rowley wrote:

Steffan wrote: You held the greatest title in the whole world.

What the Vacant WBO World Light Heavyweight title? Is the greatest title in the world in much the same way as Police Academy is the Greatest Film in the world.

You always gotta be pedantic aint ya...

Just a little joke Steffan, all good natured I promise. Am genuinely gutted for him, said before I hoped he would win, but as I said on another thread he is young enough to come back from this and I hope he does.

Rowley wrote:Just a little joke Steffan, all good natured I promise. Am genuinely gutted for him, said before I hoped he would win, but as I said on another thread he is young enough to come back from this and I hope he does.

I know sir  

Im hoping he comes back a better fighter. Ditch Vince and go for a more tactical style of boxing. Still plenty of fights for him out there he now he has lost his 0

I have a PhD, in physics. As a fellow nerd, Ive got a lot of time for Cleverly. I hope he keeps on going, hes got time and hopefully can learn not to block punches with his face.

Rowley wrote:

Steffan wrote: You held the greatest title in the whole world.

What the Vacant WBO World Light Heavyweight title? Is the greatest title in the world in much the same way as Police Academy is the Greatest Film in the world.

More like Police Academy: Mission to Moscow is the best film in the world.

Hyperbole / morale boosting aside, I side with Steffan on this on (first time for everything). Cleverly has still a lot to offer and the boxing scene would be poorer without him.

[quote="bhb001"]

Rowley wrote:

Steffan wrote: You held the greatest title in the whole world.

What the Vacant WBO World Light Heavyweight title? Is the greatest title in the world in much the same way as Police Academy is the Greatest Film in the world.

More like Police Academy: Mission to Moscow is the best film in the world.

Hyperbole / morale boosting aside, I side with Steffan on this on (first time for everything). Cleverly has still a lot to offer and the boxing scene would be poorer without him.[/quote]
Whereas Steffan has nothing to offer and the board would be a better place without and his stupidly unfunny Rocky quotes

Dave, if you are going to have a needless pop at someone, don't drag my posts into it.

Rowley wrote:

Steffan wrote: You held the greatest title in the whole world.

What the Vacant WBO World Light Heavyweight title? Is the greatest title in the world in much the same way as Police Academy is the Greatest Film in the world.

Jeff, would you rather watch all the Police Academy movies back to back or listen to all of Westlife's albums back to back?
I've noticed that you're a big fan of both.  

I mock both of them but it is all a front, you've pretty much described an average weekend for me.

bhb001 wrote:Dave, if you are going to have a needless pop at someone, don't drag my posts into it.

You're far too sensitive mate, I would be overjoyed if someone used a post of mine as a springboard to have a go at Steffan.

bhb001 wrote:Dave, if you are going to have a needless pop at someone, don't drag my posts into it.

Its ok...Dave has been having needless pops at me since V2 started. He even tried to get me banned once then got told off for trying to bully me. I have learnt to ignore the vile individual. I agree though no need to drag your posts into it

Don't worry about it Steffan, you're not going anywhere. Am half welsh myself so feel a sense of loyalty towards you. Also still amused by your world cup flag avatars.

Steffan wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Dave, if you are going to have a needless pop at someone, don't drag my posts into it.

Its ok...Dave has been having needless pops at me since V2 started. He even tried to get me banned once then got told off for trying to bully me. I have learnt to ignore the vile individual. I agree though no need to drag your posts into it

They're not needless pops Steffan, you keep on posting these stupid Rocky tributes in a effort to appear clever or amusing and I feel they're neither. Not really concerned about your fanatical love of all things Welsh (someone has to and it may as well be you) but the other stuff seems to do you a dis-service fella.

If it's any consolation (and it probably won't be) I like you more than I like Shenglong  

Rowley wrote:Don't worry about it Steffan, you're not going anywhere. Am half welsh myself so feel a sense of loyalty towards you. Also still amused by your world cup flag avatars.

Cheers Jeff. Didnt realise you were half Welsh. The avatars were a good bit of banter fair do so glad you liked them

I aint going anywhere Dave...suck it up baby  

Rowley wrote:Don't worry about it Steffan, you're not going anywhere. Am half welsh myself so feel a sense of loyalty towards you. Also still amused by your world cup flag avatars.

My God Rowley, and you have the temerity to lambast me for consorting with lancastrians.

Shame on you, sir!!!!!!!!

Steffan wrote:

Rowley wrote:Don't worry about it Steffan, you're not going anywhere. Am half welsh myself so feel a sense of loyalty towards you. Also still amused by your world cup flag avatars.

Cheers Jeff. Didnt realise you were half Welsh. The avatars were a good bit of banter fair do so glad you liked them

I aint going anywhere Dave...suck it up baby  

You don't have to leave Steffan, please just stop with the ROCKY nonsense (and don't take this as permission to start re-creating something equally stupid to compensate)

DAVE667 wrote:

Steffan wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Dave, if you are going to have a needless pop at someone, don't drag my posts into it.

Its ok...Dave has been having needless pops at me since V2 started. He even tried to get me banned once then got told off for trying to bully me. I have learnt to ignore the vile individual. I agree though no need to drag your posts into it

They're not needless pops Steffan, you keep on posting these stupid Rocky tributes in a effort to appear clever or amusing and I feel they're neither. Not really concerned about your fanatical love of all things Welsh (someone has to and it may as well be you) but the other stuff seems to do you a dis-service fella.

If it's any consolation (and it probably won't be) I like you more than I like Shenglong  

The Rocky stuff is not clever or amusing. I still do it anyway though

My fanatical love of all things Welsh is tounge in cheek half the time. People need to read between the lines

You also had a pop at me once because I was talking about archaeology and said that there was no need for me to mention it...that hurt Dave...it really hurt me

If I annoy you that much then please by all means add me to your foe list then you aint gotta read it

However now you have said im above Shenglong im sure its the start of something beautiful

Steffan wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

Steffan wrote:

bhb001 wrote:Dave, if you are going to have a needless pop at someone, don't drag my posts into it.

Its ok...Dave has been having needless pops at me since V2 started. He even tried to get me banned once then got told off for trying to bully me. I have learnt to ignore the vile individual. I agree though no need to drag your posts into it

They're not needless pops Steffan, you keep on posting these stupid Rocky tributes in a effort to appear clever or amusing and I feel they're neither. Not really concerned about your fanatical love of all things Welsh (someone has to and it may as well be you) but the other stuff seems to do you a dis-service fella.

If it's any consolation (and it probably won't be) I like you more than I like Shenglong  

The Rocky stuff is not clever or amusing. I still do it anyway though

My fanatical love of all things Welsh is tounge in cheek half the time. People need to read between the lines

You also had a pop at me once because I was talking about archaeology and said that there was no need for me to mention it...that hurt Dave...it really hurt me

If I annoy you that much then please by all means add me to your foe list then you aint gotta read it

However now you have said im above Shenglong im sure its the start of something beautiful

From little acorns, mighty oaks do grow.

Can I now complain about being used to start some sort of love-in!! Dave, Steffan; get a room.

When will they start pulling each other's pigtails?

Clev is right to take some time out. If he decides to quit then he can be pleased he at least won a strap.

That said, he is still young. The hype about his loss is over the top. His fight plan totally failed and he failed to adapt. When trying to stand his ground didn't work he should have moved and see if he could have taken Kovalev into the later rounds. Kovalev had only been beyond 4 rounds something like 3 times.

Truss - I wouldn't take his comments so hard. He's just been humiliated infront of his home crowd at what was meant to be his crowning fight.

Who has a PhD in the history of boxing?

In Clev's post-fight interview he talks about how he has never focussed on defence or technical things in training. Doomed from the start.

Cleverly should take a breather,ditch his father from training him,then take a plane to the states and get a top class trainer who will try and iron out his weaknesses,and get him quality sparring partners and will also tell him it like it is instead of blowing smoke up his backside, then we may see a technically better fighter who might win another world title, if not forget it and choose another career.