Tom Taylor : Latest Legend to be Unleashed

With both of the worlds best first five eighths injured and unavailable for the All Blacks (I'll leave you to your opinion on whether Carter or Cruden is the #1 or #2) and with All Black development project and age group world champion Beauden Barrett also out with injury; the All Blacks will unleash Tom Taylor this weekend. 

The latest Canterbury production line superstar is already rated ahead of all three Ozzy options, and with a starring roll in Super Rugby this year, yet another versatile star will be added to the All Blacks armoury to gain experience in the All Blacks set up ready for the World Cup.

This kind of depth, where a fourth string option is still likely to be the star turn in a matchup between the two best teams in the worlds top rugby competition underlines the staggering depth developed in New Zealand  currently and I believe it's about time for the IRB to investigate this phenomenon so that a similar structure can be franchised out into developing and second tier nations to bolster the game. Surely countries that suffer from high player attrition to overseas clubs such as Samoa, Fiji and Wales could sorely use some assistance from HQ? 

We need to keep the game competitive globally and simply installing Kiwi bred coaches into the majority of international roles is only one piece in the jigsaw in my opinion.

Jeepers, you're a champion story teller alright GE. I'll just be grateful if he survives the challenge in one piece.

I have no problem with Tom taylor being selected as the All Black first five eighth (well apart from coming from Canterbury), he is a very solid player and adds another dimension with his goal kicking.

He is currently landing about 90% of his kicks, which is a far higher success rate than most players in World rugby.

If we leave it up to old GE, we will be able to run through the five Super rugby franchises squads un about 16 weeks.  

He's just another humble down to earth Canterbury lad (like all of us) who will put the team first and do the job required of him. Nothing flashy. Just pure red and black gold. Makes you proud to be a Cantab.  

So I take it GE's not from Canterbury Kia...

I do feel there is still good in him chilly. He hasn't gone completely to the dark side. There's a bit of red and black trying to get out and I won't ever give up on him until it does. He is after all... my father.   

What about George Marvin?

Surely he deserves a chance. I think he'll qualify on the "time-lapsed" criteria now.

How delusional. He's one of the most average backs in the SXV.

Ha! Just under the radar this far. Do you remember how confident the lions were in 2005 because they were coming up against this average unknown 10 for NZ because Carlos Spencer had moved on? The all blacks had been "forced" to shuffle in this young kid from second five eighths (inside center for you poms) and NZ were going to be rudderless and naiive? Because not only was this Carter fellow out of position, but he was so ordinary anyway? Maybe a half decent goal kicker but nothing in the caliber that the lions had? 

Hmmm... History never repeats, I tell myself...

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/6747721/Crusaders-Tom-Taylor-shrugs-off-record-tally


Average. Yeah, right.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Ha! Just under the radar this far. Do you remember how confident the lions were in 2005 because they were coming up against this average unknown 10 for NZ because Carlos Spencer had moved on? The all blacks had been "forced" to shuffle in this young kid from second five eighths (inside center for you poms) and NZ were going to be rudderless and naiive? Because not only was this Carter fellow out of position, but he was so ordinary anyway? Maybe a half decent goal kicker but nothing in the caliber that the lions had? 

Hmmm... History never repeats, I tell myself...

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/6747721/Crusaders-Tom-Taylor-shrugs-off-record-tally


Average. Yeah, right.

No but it would be hard to recall something that you made up.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Ha! Just under the radar this far. Do you remember how confident the lions were in 2005 because they were coming up against this average unknown 10 for NZ because Carlos Spencer had moved on? The all blacks had been "forced" to shuffle in this young kid from second five eighths (inside center for you poms) and NZ were going to be rudderless and naiive? Because not only was this Carter fellow out of position, but he was so ordinary anyway? Maybe a half decent goal kicker but nothing in the caliber that the lions had? 

Hmmm... History never repeats, I tell myself...

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/6747721/Crusaders-Tom-Taylor-shrugs-off-record-tally


Average. Yeah, right.

 The most fundamental difference being that one of them is Carter and the other Taylor... Yeah don't bother considering that in your latest pack of lies.

Taylor and Crotty are two of the most average backs in NZ who get an armchair ride from what is pretty much an All Black pack that is marshalled by the best fly-half to have played the game. There is nothing All Black about them and they'll struggle to make the Crusaders team next season if some more of your past U20s start to progress. I would compare them to that guy heralded as the next Dan Carter (Stephen Brett), but would that be necessary?

Erm... The crusaders pack is nothing like the All Blacks pack. But despite the parts where you are completely wrong (all of your post) it's almost a compelling argument.

Oh so I'm guessing Franks, Romano, Whitelock, McCaw and Read, the spine of the AB pack don't play for the Crusaders then... It's opinion, it's neither right or wrong. Though in the coming months you will see such cause for an opinion. You on the other hand, your opinion stems from delusion.

Slade is a brittle Merts clone and Taylor is of the philpot, mannix variety. Funny how both taylor and DC have 90% goalkicking records this season for the same team...how rare is that?

Just read on the Roar that Tom Taylor will be the 10 on the weekend?

I probably would have opted for Slade, who is more familiar with the team.

The Saint wrote:Oh so I'm guessing Franks, Romano, Whitelock, McCaw and Read, the spine of the AB pack don't play for the Crusaders then... It's opinion, it's neither right or wrong. Though in the coming months you will see such cause for an opinion. You on the other hand, your opinion stems from delusion.

McCaw was out most of the season.  NZ has five franchises with the All Blacks distributed amongst them so you could make the same comment about any of them.
Frankly, its a non argument. Despite being surrounded by All Blacks talent,
Tom Taylor still shines is another way to look at it.

Slade's time has been and gone. He had opportunities but never grasped them, he was too nervy, didn't have the confidence. And his injury list is hard to believe, he's just an unlucky guy. Glad Tom will play.

I guess this tom taylor should get the benefit of the doubt in any case. also being 4th choice flyhalf for the ABs pretty much guarantee him a starting spot in the next RWC final once the next wave of injury will have taken its toll so better try him now.

Guarantee depending on the quality of refereeing that gets layed on by the RFU this time around of course...

Don't think Slade will go away too oon. At his best he's as good as anyone in the pos...he just keeps getting injured. A sustained injury free run will give him the confidence he needs and then we'll see how he goes. I think he deserves a look if he can play a whole season without injury.

During the 1st Bledisloe the panel talking about the 4Ns,Bledisloe.the draw etc.a lot of seeming complacent comments.Arm chair ride for any 10 etc.tomorrow we will see,Slade,like Brett spent.

Too much bench sitting at the Crusaders,for DC then injuries and being in the weakest Nz conference side hurt him.
The nerves only got to him in the RWC he wasn't alone THERE!!!Taylor is solid and a goal kicker which helps.
Highlanders sans Thomson are not the same HE was immense for them and Slade before injury was a big part of there revival 2012.
A midfield of Taylor/Slade,Crotty,Ben Smith,may not yet be GREAT All Black material but
would not disgrace ANY test side.
Journeymen yes,and proud to be it,doing there job EVERY game not just now and then.

I must admit, I think Taylor is extremely average and shows even NZ haven't got unlimited high quality in each position.

Encouraging for the rest of the "big 3" (SA & Eng) going forward.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
I have no problem with Tom taylor being selected as the All Black first five eighth (well apart from coming from Canterbury), he is a very solid player and adds another dimension with his goal kicking.

He is currently landing about 90% of his kicks, which is a far higher success rate than most players in World rugby.

He's a decent player no doubt and a good kicker.... although kicking at the top generally isn't about talent... its about pressure and how players deal with it, Charlie Hodgson was always a better kicker then Wilkinson... but he couldn't deal with test rugby pressure, Wilkinson could.

Ha! Love it folks mistake their inability to spot talent independently of having it sign posted by the media with actual mediocrity.

It's important in life to use your brain for thinking and not just remembering what other people have told you to think!

Encouraging for the rest of the "big 3" (SA & Eng) going forward..

Love what you did there Sarge... 

Highlighting a chap who plays week in week out for the crusaders is not my idea of someone who can spot a diamond in the rough???

If this was written 2 years ago perhaps.

2 years ago he was the first five for the Canterbury team that won the ITM cup.

"It's important in life to use your brain for thinking and not just remembering what other people have told you to think!"

The easy option would be to agree here and believe the hype of the next AB superstar.

I've watch Taylor at ITM & Super level for a few years now and think he's very average. He'd get nowhere near any other top Int team imo, certainly not as a top 3 choice anyway.

Not all AB's are world class.....

exactly AL.... I'm sure some people would have said it then and fair do's. Saying it after the end of a SR campaign and boasting about it when the particular player received many plaudits throughout is hardly something to raise your cap to.

I remember many people who said that Sam Warburton would be the next Lions captain on here long before he ever asserted himself in the Wales team around the same time of the 09 tour, most laughed at it, I for one hadn't even seen him play then so I couldn't say one way or the other although I wasn't overtly impressed on first view later on.... but fair play to those guys, they stuck their neck out when it was unsure at best.

Warburton is very average in my opinion and rose to the top of a very average bunch in what was one of the poorest lions series in recent history.

one thing I would mention is that he does get an arm chair ride and has one of the best players of all time on his shoulder so it makes life a little easier. Mike Tindall was a world class player inbetween Wilkinson and Greenwood.

Lets see how he features against a bok pack in SA.... a true test of skill.

One chap who I always thought was talented was Anscombe. Was treated harshly the season before but has done well with the chiefs at 15. Anyone who goes to the Versfeld and in an average side gets the single game points record for a visitor (on debut) is a guy who has not only talent but a lot of mental strength.

Yea Warburton is very average.......

Agree on Anscombe Fa, he's thriving at the Chiefs. Very classy player who'll no doubt be an all black.

Hope you got that trigger finger hovering on the 'told-you-so' button GE. The truth is, he's our 4th rated 10 by the AB coaches, fourth!! Come on, he's not a world beater. But he's got a chance to prove otherwise, maybe he will?

ps. Anscombe had discipline issues

one thing I would mention is that he does get an arm chair ride and has one of the best players of all time on his shoulder so it makes life a little easier. Mike Tindall was a world class player inbetween Wilkinson and Greenwood.

Lets see how he features against a bok pack in SA.... a true test of skill.

One chap who I always thought was talented was Anscombe. Was treated harshly the season before but has done well with the chiefs at 15. Anyone who goes to the Versfeld and in an average side gets the single game points record for a visitor (on debut) is a guy who has not only talent but a lot of mental strength.

Actually fa0019, Anscombe is a bit flakey.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I must admit, I think Taylor is extremely average and shows even NZ haven't got unlimited high quality in each position.

Encouraging for the rest of the "big 3" (SA & Eng) going forward.

I think you like saying big 3 and felt you could crow bar it into this thread.  

Chances are Dan the Man will be fit for SA and Argentina too one game at a time,look how many journeymen there are in your own sides then gloat.

Boom, in your face, nice one emack!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I must admit, I think Taylor is extremely average and shows even NZ haven't got unlimited high quality in each position.

Encouraging for the rest of the "big 3" (SA & Eng) going forward.

I think you like saying big 3 and felt you could crow bar it into this thread.  

Haha....not often it happens so we need to take advantage!

To be fair AlanMack look at the title of the thread.

There's plenty of average players in the England set up but not many post on here stating they're "legends" and "superstars".

I do think Taylor is distinctly average, he'd get nowhere near an England squad for example. I'd give my right leg for a Carter or Cruden though.....

Looks like everyone bar GE is reiterating The Saint's point .

It's one of those scenarios where none of us will know until he's played. So we can all stop winding each other up I suppose.

What we do know is that Taylor is very solid at Super XV level, has experience playing with All Blacks and in the AB environment at last year's tour, and that Kiwis are confident that he will acquit himself well at Test level-hence no real noises about Slade.

World class I think requires consistency. Which we won't get as it's one game or two. We don't need world class. We need solidity and dependablity at the moment. His goalkicking is world class and we'll all take that. If he tackles his channel and feeds his outsides well then there's not much more we can ask for.

As long as he doesn't play like Simon Mannix we'll be ok.

Someone once said you may not be any good,but if you make your tackles and kick your goals?.Saturday OZ will be after levelling things,surprised not starting Cooper,if AB forwards
do there job.It will be there or there about maybe a penalty shootout again yippee!!  

I think by not starting Cooper its all about percentages and defence. This is an Oz side that gave up 88 points in two tests AT HOME that for different reasons thought it could win either.

In todays cut throat environment thats bordering on delusional so the thought of coming to NZ to win must be putting a bit of reality back into the side. If anything Toomua represents stability and everything Cooper doesnt.

No this test is about resolve, determination and the Oz side going quiet this week means they are hardening up their arteries for this. So for me its irrelevant who is at 10. Both will acquit themselves fine with those around them. This is more about how Ewen Mac responds in the face of adversity and I expect a very hardened oz side this week.

ebop wrote:Hope you got that trigger finger hovering on the 'told-you-so' button GE. The truth is, he's our 4th rated 10 by the AB coaches, fourth!! Come on, he's not a world beater. But he's got a chance to prove otherwise, maybe he will?

ps. Anscombe had discipline issues

I'm not sure anyone has more "I told you so's" here than me.

Ben Smith, case in point.

Sgt.Pooley not get anywhere the current England Squad?debatable I`d start him before Manu Tualagi,or Owen Farrell any day,

alanmackie6 wrote:
Sgt.Pooley not get anywhere the current England Squad?debatable I`d start him before Manu Tualagi,or Owen Farrell any day,

I'm glad you're not picking the England side Alan!

Farrell is limited but a steely eyed killer in front of goal(proven), he's 10x the player Taylor is imo, an IRB world player backs him up a bit (although I don't agree with it).

Tuilagi plays 13 so not a comparison.

Farrell, Flood, Burns, Hodgson are superior FH's imo

Please stop mentioning these mediocre English players on the legend thread thanks! If you want to start another thread for fourth choice English backs who couldn't make the lions then do so, but this thread is about the emerging legend of Tom Taylor.

Haha, sorry fella....I'll stop hijacking, Tom deserves better