Belgian GP Thread - Contains Spoilers of Race/Qualifying & Practice - Sponsored by UnpredictableWeather.co.uk

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

It's been a long month but the 2013 Formula 1 season finally recommences this weekend and what a place for the defining second half of the year to begin: Spa-Francorchamps.

The fast, flowing circuit that pierces through the Ardennes forest may not possess the obvious glamour of a Monaco or Singapore but for many reasons Belgium is one of the most eagerly anticipated stops on the calendar for both drivers and fans.

The composition of corners around what is the longest lap of the season - Eau Rouge, Pouhon, Blachimont... - remains a truly spectacular concoction and this year's race could be a classic with Lewis Hamilton's pre-summer break victory having breathed new life and expectation into the title race.

So read on below, and watch Anthony Davidson's expert track guide above, as Sky Sports Online gives you the lowdown on this weekend's event...
The 2013 Belgian GP in a nutshell

Track: Spa-Francorchamps. Permanent track.

Race start time: 1pm UK time Sunday (2pm local).

Track length: 7.004 km.

Tyre allocation: Medium (white) and hard (orange).

DRS Zones: Two - Half-way down Kemmel Straight between turns four and five and on the pit straight, with separate detection points.

Driver steward: TBA.

Lap record: Sebastian Vettel - 1:47.263 - (Red Bull; 2009).

2012 pole: Jenson Button - 1:47.573 (McLaren).

Form guide

Perhaps even more than is the case at Monaco, the roll of honour at Spa-Francorchamps is a real who's who of F1's greatest exponents.

Since the race returned permanently to the new-look Spa in 1985 only twice (by David Coulthard in 1999 and Felipe Massa in 2008) has the race not been won by a World Champion. Indeed of the five title winners on the current grid, four of them have triumphed in Belgium - with a victory apiece in each of the last four years in fact.

Curiously it's the most experienced of them all, Fernando Alonso, who has yet to add his name to the glittering winners' list. By the Spaniard's sky-high standards Spa is not traditionally one of his strongest events, with second and third places in 2006 and 2007 respectively his only two podium finishes in eight previous starts. Furthermore, Alonso has only once finished the race in the last four years, with last year's exit particularly frightening - as well as being damaging for his title chances - as Romain Grosjean's out-of-control Lotus came hurtling over the front of his Ferrari.

It's Kimi Raikkonen then who boasts the most impressive record here. Up until his return to F1 after a two-year sabbatical last year, the fearless Finn had a very straightforward record at Spa - he either won (which he did four times) or didn't make the finish. Third place with Lotus in 2012 was therefore not in keeping with that trend and so, on the back of yet another runner-up finish in Hungary, Raikkonen will be eyeing a fifth victory around the famous old circuit this weekend which would draw him level with Ayrton Senna and one behind ultimate Spa master Michael Schumacher in the all-time victory standings.

2012 result: 1. Jenson Button (McLaren); 2. Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 3. Kimi Raikkonen (Lotus); 4. Nico Hulkenberg (Force India); 5. Felipe Massa (Ferrari); 6. Mark Webber (Red Bull); 7. Michael Schumacher (Mercedes); 8. Jean-Eric Vergne (Toro Rosso); 9. Daniel Ricciardo (Toro Rosso); 10. Paul Di Resta (Force India).

Last five winners: 2012: Jenson Button (McLaren); 2011: Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull); 2010: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren); 2009: Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari); 2008: Felipe Massa (Ferrari).

Tyre allocation

Spa-Francorchamps' array of fast corners and resultant loading demands necessitate that Pirelli bring the hardest two tyres in their range to the race weekend, the medium and the hard.

Indeed, F1's tyre manufacturer states that the 7km circuit places the "highest vertical load on the front tyres all season, mainly due to Eau Rouge corner".

Of course, as any veteran watchers of the Belgian GP will know, the circuit has something of its own micro-climate and therefore it's rare that there is not some rain during the three-day race weekend irrespective of its traditional summer slot. The sheer length of the circuit also means that it can be raining hard on one part of the track but bone dry at another, making strategic calls on if and when to switch to intermediate or wet tyres particularly challenging.

Weather Forecast: http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/6296499

Source: Sky Sports

[GSC]

How long until someone punches EJ?

[CaledonianCraig]

Rain is forecast but I'd still be surprised if it weren't either a Red Bull, Ferrari or Mercedes on pole position.

[GSC]

Raining

[GSC]

Gido Van de Garde, Jules Bianchi and Max Chilton make Q2  Gambled on the slick tyres

Both Toro Rossos and Williams out

[GSC]

Masterstroke from FI, everyone tries to sneak slick tyres in before the rain is too hard and bail out on the outlap.

Di Resta straight onto the inters and gets the best conditions

[GSC]

Paul Di Resta looks set for pole now

[GSC]

Rosberg has nicked it. Tracks got better suddenly

[GSC]

Hamilton last across the line in improving condition takes pole.

Poor Di Resta, almost a masterstroke

[GSC]

Thrilling end, looks for so long that FI and Di Resta had nailed it, but it turned out to be last man across the line got the best of it.

Should be good tomorrow if rain arrives

[Fernando]

Michelin have held talks with the FIA over becoming supplier for the 2014 season

[Guest]

Fascinating session at the end, thoroughly enjoyable. Fourth consecutive pole for Hamilton, quite brilliant. Vettel must be sick of the sight of Lewis now. Raikkonen & Alonso once again way down the grid and playing catch-up from the word go, making life easier for Vettel in his attempt for No.4. Hamilton needs to continue winning and Vettel to endure issues, otherwise if this form continues, I can see Vettel managing Hamilton all the way through to Brazil. Unlucky for Di Resta & FI. Vergne out-qualifying Ricciardo.....thought I'd add that in.

Should be a good race, weather could play a significant role. Hopefully Lewis can add to Hungary.

[GSC]

To be fair to Ricciardo, Spa is a speciality for Vergne

Also neither qualified well

[dyrewolfe]

Michelin have held talks with the FIA over becoming supplier for the 2014 season

Well provided they can avoid any repeats of the Indianapolis fiasco, I'd have though they'd be welcomed back with open arms.

I know Pirelli provided evidence that the puncture and delamination during practice were caused by the same piece of debris, but you have to think the drivers are a bit twitchy regardless, due to the earlier problems that WERE down to the tyres' construction.

Just hope Michelin have been watching closely and done their homework to avoid the same problems Pirelli have had.

[dyrewolfe]

Qualifying was again something of a lottery, thanks to Spa's predictably unpredictable weather, but in the end there weren't too many shocks.

Good to see Marussia and Caterham get through to Q2, thanks to some quick thinking, sending their cars out on slicks during a brief dry window.

Felt a tad sorry for Di Resta who looked as though he might have scored his first pole,  going out on inters before the rest of the field and putting in an early lap on a dampening track.

Sadly for him he was pushed down to a still-creditable 5th, by the late-charging Mercedes and Red Bulls, as the rain abated during the final minutes. Another brilliant result for Hamilton, scoring his 4th consecutive pole. Fingers crossed he can repeat his Hungary performance and pick up his 2nd win of the season.

As before he's going to have his work cut out for him with Vettel and Webber breathing down his neck. Hopefully Rosberg can cause them some problems.

Surprisingly good quali for Button, who starts 6th. He seemed pretty upbeat about his chances of a podium, but I think he'll be hoping for changeable weather to catch out the guys in front of him.

Disappointing results for Lotus and Ferrari, who occupy the 7th to 10th slots, though I'm sure we can expect Alonso and Raikkonen to at least finish in the top 6.

Set up for an intriguing race tomorrow...

[Guest]

Pretty much going Vettels way. Alonso looks quick, Mercedes don't have the pace. DRS too strong. Not great, need rain.

[GSC]

Good sign for RB going into the Monza that the car seems to perform well on the straights with the lower downforce setup

[beninho]

I love f1. But that was dull. Vettell congrats on a fourth championship. Shame you only have to be better then Mark Webber to win it. And as Webber isn't great there is no competition.

[CaledonianCraig]

Congrats to Vettel. Got the start he needed and once ahead the Red Bull pace was always going to be impossible to match. Mercedes just never had race pace today and they were crying out for rain. The Ferrari looked pacey but they cut their throats qualifying so poorly.

Driver of the day either Vettel or Alonso. Would just go for Alonso for storming through the field from 9th to finish 2nd.

The title race looks pretty much all over now to me - four up for Vettel.

[SteveG]

Vettel: so where was the god damn rain - you know that wet stuff that was supposed to fall all weekend. Gambled with a small wing and it paid off. Had it rained then would have been in trouble. Lady luck continues to smile and the fat lady has cleared her throat. Game over.

Webber: another dodgy start when alongside Vettel. Funny that!!

Hamilton:

Brundle: take your tongue out off Vettels a*** its embarrassing.

[bogbrush]

Interesting how good the relationship is between Vettel and Hamilton, and how much Alonso sits outside it all.

Coulthard just received some of that chemistry on the podium!

[bogbrush]

Vettel: so where was the god damn rain - you know that wet stuff that was supposed to fall all weekend. Gambled with a small wing and it paid off. Had it rained then would have been in trouble. Lady luck continues to smile and the fat lady has cleared her throat. Game over.

Webber: another dodgy start when alongside Vettel. Funny that!!

Hamilton:

Brundle: take your tongue out off Vettels a*** its embarrassing.

Oh dear, that's desperate.

[Guest]

Webber's basically confirmed Ricciardo is his replacement on channel 10. Hearing Horner & Newey post race, claiming it was not a race formality n we have weaker racers coming up is just embarrassing. 46 point lead, basically game over. Mercedes don't have the pace, unlike Ferrari on low down force tracks. Raikkonen was never in title fight anyway in my opinion, needs to move. Just a feeling of deflation.

[SteveG]

Just heard Webbers interview on the beeb talking about his 'clutch problems' before the race. and you can read between the lines. Lets put it this way his book will be top of my xmas list when he leaves F1.

[GSC]

Great win for Vettel. Got the move done when he needed to then controlled the race. Alonso showing some signs of life. Shame for Kimi

[bogbrush]

Just heard Webbers interview on the beeb talking about his 'clutch problems' before the race. and you can read between the lines. Lets put it this way his book will be top of my xmas list when he leaves F1.

Yes, I'm sure they sabotaged their own car, teams are always doing it. Either that, or Mark is so distressed about how he's been humiliated year after year by his team mate that he's become very bitter.

Ooh, now which of those is the more likely?

[GSC]

Lets not pretend Webber would have got off to a lightning start either way

[bogbrush]

I've lost count of the number of poor starts Webber makes.

[GSC]

He can't even make a fast start on Mario Kart

[SteveG]

Just heard Webbers interview on the beeb talking about his 'clutch problems' before the race. and you can read between the lines. Lets put it this way his book will be top of my xmas list when he leaves F1.

Yes, I'm sure they sabotaged their own car, teams are always doing it. Either that, or Mark is so distressed about how he's been humiliated year after year by his team mate that he's become very bitter.

Ooh, now which of those is the more likely?

Listen - it wasnt that long ago when a certain piquet was told to crash his car so you've no idea what goes on behind the scenes. But its a fair assumption that the powers that be at RBR don't give a stuff about Webber whilst at the same time brush their teeth with Vettels sh*t. All I know is that every time Webber is in a position to threaten something always seems to happen to nullify that threat. You believe what you like and I'll believe what I like. Ok.

[bogbrush]

Fine, you want to apply the actions of the biggest proven crook the sport has seen to explain Mark Webbers consistent slow starts if you want to.

I'll go with him being demoralised and bitter.

[Bull]

Steve G and his conspiracy theories  

[Guest]

Steve G and his conspiracy theories  

Christian Horner, the Red Bull team boss, says the clutch issues are inexcusable and highlight a potential chink in the team's armour that could prove costly as it bids to seal a fourth consecutive world championship title. Funny how they never happen to Vettel

"We approach each race as they come, we try to get the best out of the car, we keep pushing in all areas - but there are things we need to improve," said Horner. Yeah, fixing the KERS on Webber's car might be a good start.

"We particularly need to address the start issue with Mark, and have to get on top of that. It has cost us too many points so far." You don't say
Horner said that Webber's poor start in Belgium was down to the clutch not working as expected. So you knew it was going to happen? Once Webber had dropped down the order there was very little he could do to recover. RB plan succeeded in preventing an RB duel on track

"We had a clutch that under delivered and created a horrible start for Mark," explained Horner.

Okay, so it's taken you all this time to realise the severity of the situation with Mark and now you suddenly want the issue fixed ASAP. More likely, you've hindered Mark on numerous occasions and basically taken him out of the WDC reckoning in terms of points and by the time you've fixed the issue, Mark will be so far behind that it doesn't really matter anyway and he has to play the supporting role again. However, he's not because he's fallen for that trick year after year and now the team can't actually control him. Hence, his interview on channel 10 stating that Ricciardo is his replacement. RB denied the story.

SteveG should like this story I'm not a huge fan of Webber's ability but his issues are unbelievable, that I can't imagine a top professional like Webber is at fault.

[bogbrush]

Yes, they're sabotaging his car. I mean, their car. I mean, that's far more likely than them just saying publicly that with the championship as it is they have impressed on Mark the need to help the team achieve the double crown isn't it? Then if Ark disobeyed once they could just drop him.

Yes, much more likely to play a series of tricks on him. I particularly admired the one where they pretended to tell Seb to stay behind him. How cunning was that?!

I don't believe you lot sometimes, I think hatred of Vettel has warped perspectives.

[GSC]

I saw Helmut Marko sneaking into the RB garage with a goatee and an oversized wrench

[CaledonianCraig]

I wouldn't say they've sabotaged his car - absolutely pointless. Webber has been unlucky with mechanical issues but the truth is he just isn't fast enough or as fast as he should be in a Red Bull.

[bogbrush]

Mark is a good driver who has had more than his fair share of ill-fortune, and is utterly demoralised not least by being outclassed for a long time by a very young man.

[CaledonianCraig]

A good driver but not is the upper echelons of Formula One drivers and never has been - despite what the media may try to tell us. Look at his record and you will see he is not in the same league as Alonso, Hamilton, Button, Raikkonen, Massa and Rosberg and I'd hazard a guess a few other F1 drivers yet to drive a competitive car.

[GSC]

To be fair to Mark, he's had awful fortune in picking teams. Would've been a worthy 2010 WC

[Guest]

He has been outclassed and is demoralised but the issues he`s had are extraordinary really and difficult to take for him. Of course there not sabotaging his car, I was just playing up to the conspiracy theories. I've never rated Webber and he's the reason Vettel is a three time world champ. Just a shame that these mechanical issues are holding him back in his last year and that with Helmut Marko getting his young driver in for next year, this Vettel dominance at RB will unfortunately continue.

[CaledonianCraig]

For me he was too presumptious as I posted on another thread.

Look at his career and he came to prominence at minnows such as Minardi where he got cult status for a couple of eye-catching drives and moved on to bigger teams such as Jaguar, BMW and Williams but even so did nothing of note there and moved on to Red Bull. They, as a team, were still small and he probably felt he was top dog there but he was out-performed by an ageing Coulthard in his first season there and then Newey arrived to bring his technical wizardry and the team grew. Vettel came along but I'd say Webber still felt like he was the senior party there and therefore Numero Uno as they say in Italy but he got blown away. In short he has never been a spectacular driver with his best moments coming with the Newey-inspired Red Bull.

[GSC]

He didn't get blown away until 2011

[CaledonianCraig]

Sorry but where has he excelled in F1? He hasn't in my mind. The Red Bull seasons in 2009 and 2010 were his best but remember how good that car was. If you had put a number of other F1 drivers in that car I am confident they would have fared just as well or even better.

[GSC]

I never claimed he excelled. Bad drivers aren't in WC fights very often though. Vettels been in control since 2011, Mark was very much right with him before that.

[GSC]

Mark has declined, certainly in quali, and it does appear time for some fresh blood, but there's no shame in an older drier being outclassed by the best driver in F1

[CaledonianCraig]

I'd say Webber has almost appeared disinterested for the last year or so as he has moped about his predicament. Perhaps he has just fallen out of love with F1 because any edge he did have in say 2009 and 2010 has petered out. And GSC Mark was right with Vettel as he should have been - he had been at the team longer, had more experience and must have known the car better. Once Vettel got to grips with it it was no real contest. I couldn't see a Hamilton, Rosberg, Button, Alonso or Raikonnen being blown away so comprehensively in a Red Bull.

[GSC]

Rosbergs already being blown away comprehensively.

[CaledonianCraig]

Rosbergs already being blown away comprehensively.

Yes point taken but heck there is still a real chance Rosberg will finish above Webber this season and the Red Bull is the faster and more consistent car. Reverse those drivers and I'd hazard a bet Rosberg would be faring far better than Webber this year.

[CaledonianCraig]

Also Rosberg isn't being blown away to the degree that Webber is:- Hamilton 139 Rosberg 96 (Difference 43 points) Vettel 197 Webber 115 (Difference 82 points)

[SteveG]

Mark Webber may not be the most talented driver in F1 but is certainly one of the most experienced and so refuse to believe that all these dodgy starts are soley down to him. After 15 odd years in the business I think he knows how to work a two phase clutch. He never seems to have problems when starting further back - only when close to his teammate. So why is that? In an interview after the race he said his clutch felt like it was on a tractor. Why? Would also like to throw in Germany where Webber was blazing a trail and a spicy no holds barred duel between the two RB drivers was inevitable as he closed on Vettel. Cue one botched pitstop from a team that NEVER messes up pit stops and Webber's out of the picture. Sabotage is probably too strong a word but engineering the situation in order to keep their drivers apart - in Vettels favour as the leading driver in the WDC is not an impossibility. It's a case of keeping a now maverick driver at arms length where he will not harm his teamates chances but still bring in a decent points haul, And with a healthy lead in both championships its obviously working.

[GSC]

Rosberg has the advantage of familiarity in the car and also had like a 20 point swing when Hamiltons tyre exploded and Vettels gearbox failed

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