NZ vs Oz second round.

First topic message reminder :

New Zealand:
15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Tom Taylor, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (capt), 6 Steven Luatua, 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Brodie Retallick, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Andrew Hore, 1 Tony Woodcock.

Replacements: 16 Dane Coles, 17 Wyatt Crockett, 18 Charlie Faumuina, 19 Jeremy Thrush, 20 Sam Cane, 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22 Colin Slade, 23 Charles Piutau.


Australia:
15 Jesse Mogg, 14 Israel Folau, 13 Adam Ashley-Cooper, 12 Christian Leali'ifano, 11 James O'Connor, 10 Matt Toomua, 9 Will Genia, 8 Ben Mowen, 7 Michael Hooper, 6 Scott Fardy, 5 James Horwill (captain), 4 Rob Simmons, 3 Ben Alexander, 2 Stephen Moore, 1 James Slipper

Replacements: 16 Saia Fainga'a, 17 Scott Sio, 18 Sekope Kepu, 19 Kane Douglas, 20 Liam Gill, 21 Nic White, 22 Quade Cooper, 23 Tevita Kuridrani.

Date: Saturday, August 24
Venue: Westpac Stadium, Wellington
Kick-off: 19.35 (07.35 GMT)
Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Craig Joubert (South Africa), Lourens van der Merwe (South Africa)
TMO: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)


Saturday's Test in Wellington will feature a debut, a centurion and in all likelihood an All Black victory. However, Ewen McKenzie's Wallabies will be hurting after their first Test performance and are eager to strike back.

New Zealand will be keen to win their first home match and in the process take an early position of strength in this year's Rugby Championship. Conversely, McKenzie's young charges are in desperate need of an improved performance that will validate their selection.

Both sets of coaching staff have shown faith in the combinations that did battle a week ago, which saw New Zealand sail to a convincing 47-29 victory. The only changes have been injury enforced, with New Zealand being more affected.

Scott Fardy will earn his first start for the Wallabies, replacing the injured Hugh McMeniman on the flank, in the only change made to the Australian starting XV. The slight reshuffle caused by the injury allows Kane Douglas to take his place on the bench.

It is a sign of faith shown my McKenzie who is backing his new-look team to deliver on the promises that he made during Robbie Deans' tenure.

McKenzie emphasised the point that he believes in his players by saying: "Right now, I'm more concerned with how each individual responds to the defeat. We need to fix aspects of our performance but we will get better the more time we spend together."

He did, however, say that players would not get more opportunities than they deserve. "You only get a finite number of chances at Test level so it's important that you don't let the moment pass. That's been made very clear this week as has the expectation of the level of improvement we need from each player within the squad," said McKenzie.

This last comment may refer to Matt Toomua in particular, who has been selected ahead of Quade Cooper, a long time favourite of McKenzie. This Test gives Toomua possibly his last chance to get the better of his opposite number before Cooper is given a start in the number ten jersey.
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen has stuck to the theory of not 'fixing' anything that isn't broken. In line with this belief, only two enforced changes have been made to his starting XV that comprehensively defeated Australia a week ago.

Brodie Retallick comes into the second-row for Luke Romano who has injured his groin. The big change however is at fly-half where Tom Taylor will wear the number ten jersey on debut. The slightly more experienced Colin Slade offers cover from the bench, in the event that the injury curse of New Zealand fly-halves continues.

There are a number of changes on the bench, in what seems to be a rotational policy. Hooker Dane Coles, fit-again prop Wyatt Crockett, Jeremy Thrush and the exciting Charles Piutau all come into the match-day 23.
Hansen has a lot of faith in the depth of his squad and is expecting a polished debut from his young fly-half.
"We want to firstly congratulate Tom on his selection in the starting XV," said Hansen.
"He is mentally tough and plays the game with a lot of confidence and maturity.
"These factors, along with his assured goal-kicking under pressure, has made this an easy selection. We have every faith that he will handle the occasion with aplomb."
New Zealand's flashy backs often overshadow the hard work done by the big men up front. This Test will be Tony Woodcock's 100th, joining the exclusive club which currently only includes Kevin Mealamu, Mils Muliaina and Richie McCaw.

Woodcock is one of the finest loose-head props to have graced the game and his coach appreciates all that he brings to the squad.

"He (Woodcock) is a hugely respected player within the group who always puts the team first. It has been business as usual for him and the team this week, but we will enjoy acknowledging his achievement with him after the game," said Hansen.

The All Blacks will have a great deal of motivation to give their loosehead a result to celebrate. The momentum they carry into this encounter, coupled with it being the Test where New Zealand Rugby earns its fourth centurion suggests that it will also be the day that they retain the Bledisloe Cup.


Ones to watch:

For New Zealand: Richie McCaw had his first taste of international rugby in almost a year last time out. The run would have done him the world of good and it was clear to see the All Blacks captain getting used to the pace of Test rugby as the match progressed. This will be his first Test on home soil since lifting the World Cup. We're sure he will have a serious effect on this encounter and have his hands on another trophy at the end of the 80 minutes.
For Australia: If the Wallabies manage to restrict McCaw's influence at the breakdown and in the process get some quick ball, then their talented back-line will be able to show their skill. It will be up to the midfield to create opportunities for the likes of Israel Folau on the outside. Even if he is presented with a one-on-one, he will show why he is so highly rated as an incredible finisher.
Head-to-head: Matt Toomua vs Tom Taylor. In the Super Rugby final and again in the first Rugby Championship Test, the Australian fly-half Toomua was out-played by Aaron Cruden. The injury to Cruden as well as his usual back-up Beauden Barrett, means that Toomua will square off against Tom Taylor who will be making his Test debut. This will be Toomua's best chance of gaining some ascendancy over a Kiwi counterpart and could tilt the momentum is Australia's favour.


Recent results:

2013: New Zealand won 47-29 in Sydney
2012: 18-18 in Brisbane
2012: New Zealand won 22-0 in Auckland
2012: New Zealand won 27-19 in Sydney
2011: New Zealand won 20-6 in Auckland
2011: Australia won 25-20 in Brisbane
2011: New Zealand won 30-14 in Auckland
2010: Australia won 26-24 in Hong Kong
2010: New Zealand won 23-22 in Sydney
2010: New Zealand won 20-10 in Christchurch
2010: New Zealand won 49-28 in Melbourne
2009: New Zealand won 32-19 in Tokyo


Prediction: Australia will look to restore some pride and prove that they deserve to be in Ewan McKenzie's plans for the future, but New Zealand will be too good at home. New Zealand to win by 10.

hat trick looks on the cards I'd say. In the end its the pace of the game, the individual skills and making the breaks thats making the diff in the end again. The set pieces are talking points but in the end the ball running and passing is king. Getting that ball from Luatua to Smith was slick. These are things you can't train easily in one week.

More trouble for Oz methinks...theyve worked hard for little reward and got frustrated by the ref. Cooper to come on late and theyll boo...its inevitable. Pity..just hopes its the initial one and not every time.

JOC is still deadly in space

Here we are at the 50 minute mark- same point the ABs took off last week. Ozzie look just about fed up enough to allow it to happen again...fireworks time perhaps?

Not turning down points this time. Let's see if the gears go up.

This NZ side aren't too shabby at all.

Woody going hard at it in the scrums on his 100th cap and Oz scrum reeling back from the big push. Rousing stuff!

NZ invented the pavlova but the Aussies invented the scrum crumble.

Sorry need a coffee desperately.

good idea Kia, coffee sounds good...

I think its time we started looking at replacing Nonu. He's just doing the same old again

jeepers just as I say that...!nonu you...!

That was my bad! Good on you Ockers. Get another. (Let's see if that puts the kibosh on them!)

spilt my dam coffee thats for sure...

Assuming we've got this I think we've warmed oz up suffciently for the Boks. They just need more attacking in their repetoire. Mogg has to go...again.

Well done Taylor...a credit to the ultra reliable Cantab factory line. Went exactly as we thought and probably then some with a couple of hit ups.

Why on earth is Mogg playing at fullback?

He was awful last week, and was dire again tonight - offered nothing but a boot and was destroyed in the kicking battle.

Folau or JOC have to start at FB if Aus want to win anything.

Much more interesting game than last week, Australia seem to have adressed their shuffling the ball on tactic of last week, but AAC and Mogg offered nothing ball in hand, and Conner just isn't settled on the wing!

Impressed with Smith tonight (Aaron), He really showed maturity in playing his game and making Taylors life as easy as possible, which Taylor was happy about.

Australia though once again made too many unforced errors, Lilo is having a nightmare, the lineout was read and beaten, and the scrum showed as soon as nations adapt they'll get the better of Australia.

The standout performers for me tonight were Aaron Smith, Dagg and Read true quality!

Great comeback from last week for Oz. They'll definitely take confidence for the Bok game in two weeks. They have that break to regather and refine their play. Hooper was outstanding today and made Richie quiet. I think they should start Cooper and get rid of Mogg and more or less they look good.

NZ weathered the storm early on. Lucky not to get a yellow and no doubt Link will have something to say about that. But NZ just too good at converting their chances. We're lucky to have Ben Smith and Luatua to fit in so seamlessly. Plucky performance from Taylor but hopefully we'll have Carter back for SA as well as the other two.

Bledisloe locked away for another year. Woody's 100th a memorable one with the scrums. Showed he's not a spent force. Plenty to work on but a great start to the campaign under trying circumstances.

101st victory over Australia.

Too much talent in the AB side to lose this when you think of the individual strengths of each of the Oz players. They dont bat very deep in terms of experience and it showed. Backs were 6's and 7's on attack...what on earth was Mogg working on all week- the same Mogg came out again tonight!

Luatua has again impressed with his presence in the tight and made a scithing run to set up the try. Exciting career ahead for him.

Oz were marginally better but I thought they were better for the first 50 mins last week. An intercept try kept the margin down, otherwise the defences held again.

I think this intentional giving away of penalties will be a talking point and Oz wont be happy with the calls- tomorrow will see that coming out.

Neither pack protected their 9 well enough-with weather like that getting scragged is criminal.

Why the hell wasn't Moore awarded a try-or why didn't the ref go upstairs? He had a bit of a shocker IMO. NZ should have been carded and there were a few forward passes missed.

McCaw was anonymous really. Hooper shaded him again. Australia was superior at the breakdown and if not for their ponderous lateral backline play I think we'd have been in trouble. Hooper is looking really good.

Taylor was very solid. I'm ok with his missing those kicks. Hard place to kick is the Cake Tin. Very composed. Well done that man.

JOC had one break and Folau showed how easy he can beat people but man you need more from your back three. Mogg looks very average at international level.

Kaino may not be needed for the Blues let alone the Blacks. Luatua again had a stormer. Brilliant hands.

Hard to go past a 3-0 result being realised in Dunedin under the roof.

i actually think the third will be our likeliest losing test for the year if we get past the boks as we will be in the hong kong / draw scenario- all trophies in the cabinet with oz out to prove a point.

McCaw has still a few games to go until we see the best of him. Cane is in the squad and he doesn't inspire me so best to get Richie up to speed for Eden Park as we'll need him. But Hooper is class. One position where Australia have great depth. Don't have it elsewhere. Beale is sorely missed.

Hillary Shield is a hole at present TM.

BTW I expect Nonu to be cited. Dunno what he was on about with that shoulder charge. It's not like they're still legal in league.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:McCaw has still a few games to go until we see the best of him. Cane is in the squad and he doesn't inspire me so best to get Richie up to speed for Eden Park as we'll need him. But Hooper is class. One position where Australia have great depth. Don't have it elsewhere. Beale is sorely missed.

I am also not convinced about cane (nor is Rennie), which got me thnking that Luatua might be playing himself into the first call No 6, if that happened do you think Shag might look to Messam as a back up number 7?

Nonu's getting to look out of whack with this side. Like the sxv sides he played with its like he just does his job and goes home. His work rate is usually high but the citing possibility, the intercept pass and his just not having any variety in his play is becoming tiresome. He is what he is and wont get any better. Hes lucky SBW left and that no obvious successors are around- Tom Taylor might be okay there but not convinced of that either...just yet...

aucklandlaurie wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:McCaw has still a few games to go until we see the best of him. Cane is in the squad and he doesn't inspire me so best to get Richie up to speed for Eden Park as we'll need him. But Hooper is class. One position where Australia have great depth. Don't have it elsewhere. Beale is sorely missed.

 I am also not convinced about cane (nor is Rennie), which got me thnking that Luatua might be playing himself into the first call No 6, if that happened do you think Shag might look to Messam as a back up number 7?

Messam can cover 6 and 8 so it's a definite possibility. Vito has been sent away to work on his game but he's still an option.

What about Luke Braid?

God, just looked at the match thread on the Roar, I'm glad our Aussie supporters (and dare I say it even all our supporters, which frightens me) aren't as fickle, player-hating, one-eyed to their own clubs and histrionic as many of that bunch. Together with the BBC comment threads, it really hammers home what a good site we have here, despite the occasional firefights

Rory_Gallagher wrote:What about Luke Braid?

Luke Braid just cannot get the grasp of defensive lines, andthis is coming from a one eyed aucklander.

I'd rather see him there Rory than Cane but he hasn't caught the eye of the selectors. Then again they gave Vito a string of chances before giving him the heave so maybe Cane could be next. I'd rather see Todd or Braid than Cane in there at the moment.

We can live without DC but can we survive without McCaw? He's our trump card at the moment. Surely we'll take a massive hit. We've always had a worthy 7 successor but not now. We should be quite a bit worried.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:What about Luke Braid?

 Luke Braid just cannot get the grasp of defensive lines, andthis is coming from a one eyed aucklander.

Surely that is something that can be easily fixed with the right coaching and with experience? Then again he is fairly experienced with the Blues by now isn't he?

To me he looks to be one of the premier 7s in the S15. Very dangerous in the loose, always seems to beat his man and has a lovely offload. Any time I have watched him I have been seriously impressed.

Might I ask what puts people off Sam Cane as an option? What is he lacking?

Todd's done ok replacing him at the crusaders, hasn't he?

Sam Cane is great in the open and linking up Rory but he's been found wanting in the tight. I think Todd had a great season for the Crusaders and felt McCaw shouldn't have replaced him in the last few years for Canty. McCaw and Carter should just play test footy.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:What about Luke Braid?

 Luke Braid just cannot get the grasp of defensive lines, andthis is coming from a one eyed aucklander.

Surely that is something that can be easily fixed with the right coaching and with experience?  Then again he is fairly experienced with the Blues by now isn't he?

To me he looks to be one of the premier 7s in the S15.  Very dangerous in the loose, always seems to beat his man and has a lovely offload.  Any time I have watched him I have been seriously impressed.

Might I ask what puts people off Sam Cane as an option?  What is he lacking?

What you see with Braid is he misses a lot of tackles one out, one up. he has some very good coaching minds available but it just dosnt seem to get better, you are right in all other aspects hes a very good player.

My aversion to cane is that he is just not busy enough, nor does he dominate in the tackle.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Sam Cane is great in the open and linking up Rory but he's been found wanting in the tight. I think Todd had a great season for the Crusaders and felt McCaw shouldn't have replaced him in the last few years for Canty. McCaw and Carter should just play test footy.

Do you mean he doesn't get involved enough in the tight? Or that he gets physically dominated there?

ChequeredJersey wrote:God, just looked at the match thread on the Roar, I'm glad our Aussie supporters (and dare I say it even all our supporters, which frightens me) aren't as fickle, player-hating, one-eyed to their own clubs and histrionic as many of that bunch. Together with the BBC comment threads, it really hammers home what a good site we have here, despite the occasional firefights

 

Both mate. Messam has his days of dominance and others he's found wanting. Cane this year was just found wanting. You never want to see a player injured but Luatua has made an appearance at the right time. He must play the home matches and have no problem him staying there. Glad he hasn't been faffed around covering lock like he was before.

Agree Kia, Luatua has been a revelation. Very impressed with his low error rate and conspicuousness. Remember Kaino and Messam had a terrible time when they started out in the ABs. Not Luatua. SA will be an informative test.

I thought luatuas error rate might be a problem from his Blues throw it around days but he's been the opposite- tight and accurate- exactly what the doctor ordered. Messam still has had better ball carrying days but thats something we'll see more from luatua I'm sure. Regardless, good to now have yet another back up for a normally weak position.

Only just had a chance to watch the game and have to say if I was an Australian i'd be fuming. by 25 mins in they should have been 14-0 up and playing against 13 men.

Moore looked like he'd done enough to reach out and brush the white line in the opening minutes.

Nonu should have seen a yellow card for a shoulder barge to the Oz players head.

Smith too should have been yellowed when killing the ball on the try line and there is a very good call for a pen try as well.

Instead the ref bottled the last decision and somehow missed the other two.

Add to that the ridiculous call against the Ozzie 8 late in the first half for holding on (except he never held his opposite number, just pushed him) and I hope EM gives the whole crappie referee set-up a chewing out post game.

Australia came out fired up and playing the best attacking rugby of their season so far. Yet it was pretty much wrecked by NZ's happiness to concede pens knowing they won't ever get yellowed and the referee being inept. Once NZ had got themselves back in the lead it was plain sailing from there and Australia were never going to get back in front again.

On the other hand well done on some brilliant counter attacking by NZ.

Yappy,

I agree with you on all counts. The referee should have used the sin bin on the All Blacks for illegally killing ball conceding consecutive penalties.

Maes, that's the second time running that we can say that. What's the betting it still won't be addressed by the time they get to the Northern Hemisphere and then when we're still picking them up on it we'll get the same old Northern Whingers tag?

Missed the game but just caught the highlights and I agree - the ref looked incredibly weak for not using the yellow card for cynical infringements in the red zone

Agree about the cards and that NZ benefited from the majority of Peyper's bad calls but Australia were quite cynical at times also and NZ could also gripe about several instances of obstruction being let go.

Forward passes and knock ons not being picked up or erroneously being picked up was a big issue too.

Yes he wasnt the best but it didnt matter. No way on earth did Oz deserve to win this test. Man for man they were outplayed in every position, McCaw overcoming Hooper in the latter part of the game. If Oz think the ref was a significant factor in this loss (and I've not seen that they are) then theyre seriously off he mark. Again they were ineffective, couldnt put any semblance of a backline attack together, got done at scrum time and more than equalled in the lineouts, and saved a larger margin through an intercept try.

Theyve more things to worry about than the ref...they were awful.

disneychilly wrote:Agree about the cards  and that NZ benefited from the majority of Peyper's bad calls but Australia were quite cynical at times also and NZ could also gripe about several instances of obstruction being let go.

Forward passes and knock ons not being picked up or erroneously being picked up was a big issue too.

Taylorman wrote:Yes he wasnt the best but it didnt matter. No way on earth did Oz deserve to win this test. Man for man they were outplayed in every position, McCaw overcoming Hooper in the latter part of the game. If Oz think the ref was a significant factor in this loss (and I've not seen that they are) then theyre seriously off he mark. Again they were ineffective, couldnt put any semblance of a backline attack together, got done at scrum time and more than equalled in the lineouts, and saved a larger margin through an intercept try.

Theyve more things to worry about than the ref...they were awful.

Both fair comment, the All Blacks were the superior team, it would have been good to see them forced to defend a bit more though

Not saying the ABs didn't deserve the win, just saying the ref should have been stronger - those sort of calls (or lack of them) can make a difference

Australia are desperate at the moment and close to implosion. They humiliatingly lost to the welsh lions and then stitched up by a rusty and raw All Blacks team for the 11th consecutive year. They will say anything to deflect failure from themselves but from what I've seen havent done so - taking it on the chin and looking within for a solution. My advice is that fans, especially those of other nations should take a leaf from their book and not start slinging mud.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Australia are desperate at the moment and close to implosion. They humiliatingly lost to the welsh lions and then stitched up by a rusty and raw All Blacks team for the 11th consecutive year. They will say anything to deflect failure from themselves but from what I've seen havent done so - taking it on the chin and looking within for a solution. My advice is that fans, especially those of other nations should take a leaf from their book and not start slinging mud.

No mud slinging, just agreeing with pretty much everyone, even a number of Kiwi fans that the ref should have used a few yellow cards in that game. Many other top referees would have done so.

Players adapt to the ref in the modern game. Both sides noticed leniency and exploited it. 

Norbert Weiner proved that all cybernetic systems naturally migrate to the boundary of their constraints. I don't see that either side profited from a wider net.