Card in Hand - Bottle - The missing link

Coming out of my comments on another thread and another disappointing weekend performance in a big comp. I'm trying to get to the bottom of why I score so poorly in big comps these days. I can quite happily weave it round in bounce games and indeed matchplay matches on average several shots lower than handicap.

I prepare thoroughly for big comps but I'm increasingly finding myself in a tailspin half a dozen holes in. There's clearly something destructive going on between the ears as I know (and have proven) that I can play the game to a decent standard and shoot a good score. I basically have all the shots in my armoury and can tonk the ball a decent distance and can plot and think my way around a course.

Macs assertion is that it's bottle and that I crack under pressure (hideously negative phrases which I don't subscribe to). The root of these phrases centres around nerves and the ability or otherwise to control them. That is something that I feel I can do and do well although I'm prepared to accept the possibility that it may be a factor (but in exactly what way is it manifesting itself) . I think it's more a lack of concentration leading to a poor shot, which is then compounded by reacting to the poor shot

What I really want to know is how to eliminate the head-farts and the instances of lack of concentration.

Who has been in such a situation with their game (bounce rounds and matchplay regularly under handicap - Medal Comps, the bigger the comp the worse the score, waaay over handicap?

More importantly who has managed to identify something which helped them break through a particular scoring ceiling in medals?

Not sure about bottle. You cannot play well everytime, so every time you play poorly doens't mean you lost your bottle, just as when you play well doesn't mean you played with bottle.

The big miss

You fear the horror shot which is less destructive in bounce games and matchplay.

The fact you prepare thoroughly for the big comps suggests you treat them differently to normal games. Treat them all the same. Don't overdo the preparation. I've found there is no substitute for course time. I do enjoy a good short game session, but find I'm more confident on the course if I've played a round or a few meaningless holes a day or two beforehand. Everything in moderation.
On the course, let your frustration out - laugh off your bad shots and thrive on the good ones.

Mac I dont fear a thing...certainly not on a conscious level. That doesn't mean I'm Gung Ho either. The morning round yesterday just seemed to have the complete set of mistakes early on. It went like this...

Slight overfade on 1st teeshot, got over almost all the trees, was left 155 yards out with a 10 foot(ish) tree about 15 feet in front of me. Will an 8 get up in enough time? Can I fade it round? Shall I knock it forward and wedge on? Easy with hindsight that option b was the highest tariff shot but I genuinely felt I could make it. Didn't quite get enough fade...greenside bunker, out and 2 putt for bogey.

Overfaded drive on 2 into trees, when I got up to it I had 2 options. Chip out sideways and leave a 4 iron(ish) in or Lob it up and over a bunch of trees to leave a wedge in. The additional risk of a slightly hampered backswing on the full lob shot made me decide to come out sideways. Then proceeded to knock the "safe shot" option directly into one of the trees between which I was trying to go and it rebounded deeper into the trees and a crap lie. Somehow glory shotted it out. 8 iron onto green and 2 putted (8 iron was a bit short - I then realised that the weight port had dropped out of it again - that happened back in March and it had to go back to Ping). So my mental state on the 3rd tee was not great. Pulled teeshot into greenside bunker, got out ok and proceeded to 3 putt.

Gathered myself and said...ok you've made all the silly errors and got them out of the way, now start to play golf. So...on Par 5 4th, boomed drive straight into fairway bunker, nice clean 7 iron out, 52deg wedge to 3 feet...missed the birdie putt.

Par 3 5th, 205 over water (180 carry). Committed to 4 iron as I'd put one to 12 feet in 4somes on the Thurs evening in similar conditions. Slightly fat, straight into water, chip across and 2 putt.

Hole 6 Par 5, Sky'd the drive (admittedly temper on the edge and lashed at it). Nasty tufty lie off fairway. Advanced it up fairway, caught right rough and slowed it up. 3rd shot. In rough, lying ok though, 180 in (back pin). Left to right crosswind, maybe slightly against. Utility or 4 iron? Took the option of 4 iron as the lie looked OK, had the utility come out hot it would have flown the green, had it come out high the wind could have pushed it right into some nasty stuff...Thinned the 4 iron into the hazard just short of the green.

9 over through 6 holes and with the exception of hole 4...utterly abysmal off the tee. In my own assessment the faded drives early on were me not turning through the ball (subconciously tense?)
Teeshots on 3 and 6 - Mind frazzled berating myself at mistakes on previous hole. Teeshot on 5 (just the most hideous swing of the day on the hole where there's least chance of getting way with a poor one).

When you play what are your expectations?

recently i think ive figured why im way better when playing bounce games/ practicing on course than when i have a card in hand.

in a practice round if i hit a bad one i drop another ball and get it out of my system by correcting it immediately and its forgotten about by the time i get to the next tee/iron shot/putt of similar circumstances.
in a competition though, i carry the bad shot with me to the next time i have a similar shot and its all i'm thinking about when im hitting it. ie don't slice this left, don't catch it thin, don't pull this 4 footer etc.
i'm now thinking about what not to do rather than i what i should be doing.


that's the diagnosis........ i have no idea how to fix it really, maybe i should stop dropping another ball in practice.

beninho wrote:When you play what are your expectations?

Too high I suspect beninho, I'm expecting to play my best golf and there's way too high a level of frustration when it starts to become clear that I've fallen short.

Score wise I don't like to try and target an expected score but the numbers swilling around in my head that I'd find acceptable based on my current form are mid 70's, low 70's would be great but not consistently expected, there's a sub 70 in there too I'm sure of it. Going the other way I just hate the very idea of missing the buffer, I can accept that it will happen from time to time, of course it will, doesn't mean I like it and I certainly don't expect it on a regular basis.

hend085 wrote:recently i think ive figured why im way better when playing bounce games/ practicing on course than when i have a card in hand.

in a practice round if i hit a bad one  i drop another ball  and get it out of my system by correcting it immediately and its forgotten about by the time i get to the next tee/iron shot/putt of similar circumstances.
in a competition though, i carry the bad shot with me to the next time i have a similar shot and its all i'm thinking about when im hitting it. ie don't slice this left, don't catch it thin, don't pull this 4 footer etc.
i'm now thinking about what not to do rather than i what i should be doing.


that's the diagnosis........ i have no idea how to fix it really, maybe i should stop dropping another ball in practice.

I've done that too but also, there have been occasions when I've done that, when the course is quiet, and continued to play both balls. It's quite surprising just how many times the "bad shot ball" turns out with the same score or better than it's substitute. That in itself is a good reinforcer when you hit a bad shot.

Sounds like you need to get back to enjoying the game. That is probably the reason you carried on after taking it up. Just go out to enjoy it no matter what happens.

That's a good point re keeping things the same Barra although I must admit, I do think 36 holers require just that wee bit extra in terms of prep....Silly things like washing the clubs the night before, plenty of balls marked up with my distinctive marking, Clean bag towel, extra cereal bars & drinks in bag. Change of clothing for the afternoon round. Trivial things but they all add up if sorted out the night before.

The 2-3 day before practice thing, I usually do for a big one that I don't always do for a normal medal. On this particular occasion we had a 4somes Q/F on the Thurs which I felt was a fairly good exercise. I also look at the specific wind forecast and the difference between practice and comp day. Note down the yardages of shots with certain clubs on certain holes. All info that you could call on if required.

Jas ,again not trying to be insulting, but for most people an over fade is a slice.

Is it possible you are blocking out what is actually wrong with your game.

You have a slice (or some technical problem) and get nervous with the card in hand.

Maybe like a few have suggested above you need to rethink what to expect given your current technical proficiency?

beninho wrote:Sounds like you need to get back to enjoying the game. That is probably the reason you carried on after taking it up. Just go out to enjoy it no matter what happens.

Must admit I'm getting to that point where much as I love the game and love playing the game, I don't love playing in Competitions where I constantly let myself down. It won't take much more for me to abandon all hope of reaching Cat 1 and just play the game for pleasure rather than competitively

Mac with all due respect, you don't have to try that hard, you are insulting, I faded my first 2 teeshots. Missing the fairway by less than 5 yards (one of them to a left to right cross-wind) does not mean I have an endemic fade in my game or a slice.  I know my swing well enough to narrow down why I fade (on the infrequent occasions when I now do). It's either because, I haven't turned through, my hands are late, or I've overswung, tilted and got stuck. The 2 teeshots I mentioned...I felt were down to a lack of turn. Reinforced by the extra emphasis on turn with the teeshot on 4

complete meltdown in the medal tonight - putting it down to all the bottle talk on here  
needed a 0.2 cut to get down to 4 for the first time. -1 through 8, playing good - a couple of sloppy shots, but 3 birdies. nice drive up 9 and 11, but those were the ONLY two shots i hit well on the next 6 holes, the score spiralling out of control: bogey, bogey, d.bogey, t.bogey, t.bogey, bogey. poor drive and not a great wedge on 15, but good enough for a straightforward 2-putt par. snap hooked tee shot on 16, made bogey. poor tee shot on 17 but nailed a 2iron from 235 out of the rough to leave a tricky downhill 40 foot eagle putt - made birdie. nice drive up the last but tugged approach into greenside bunker.
i've been striking the ball pretty well over the last few weeks but tonight it completely deserted me. my timing was out, my swing felt horrible. didn't help that one of our playing partners walked in after 9 as he was having a mare - disrupted my rhythm a bit, but it was frightening how badly it spiralled out of control as i was feeling great until my second shot on 9, though the wheels really came off on 11-13. bounce game on friday coming up - hopefully it'll be out of my system by then, but its the first time i've come off the course in a wee while really glad to put my clubs in the locker. gutted.

We've all been there Barra. You'll be itching to get out there by Friday morning. Couple of good swings and it's all back on track!

most worrying thing was i started fluffing chips again - something i've not done for a few weeks. but put that alongside snap hook drives (which i never do - slice is my miss) and chunked pitches i guess its just a (comprehensive) blip. no golf this weekend, so hopefully friday will be better.

JAS wrote:
What I really want to know is how to eliminate the head-farts and the instances of lack of concentration.

Develop and rigidly adhere to a sound pre-shot routine.

JAS wrote:Mac with all due respect, you don't have to try that hard, you are insulting, I faded my first 2 teeshots. Missing the fairway by less than 5 yards (one of them to a left to right cross-wind) does not mean I have an endemic fade in my game or a slice.  I know my swing well enough to narrow down why I fade (on the infrequent occasions when I now do). It's either because, I haven't turned through, my hands are late, or I've overswung, tilted and got stuck. The 2 teeshots I mentioned...I felt were down to a lack of turn. Reinforced by the extra emphasis on turn with the teeshot on 4

JAS, I'm no better than you at posting a score, but one thing I do know you're supposed to do is accept the swing you have on the day and not try to fix it. As such, the thing to do on 4 was probably aim further left rather than try to turn more?

SmithersJones wrote:

JAS wrote:Mac with all due respect, you don't have to try that hard, you are insulting, I faded my first 2 teeshots. Missing the fairway by less than 5 yards (one of them to a left to right cross-wind) does not mean I have an endemic fade in my game or a slice.  I know my swing well enough to narrow down why I fade (on the infrequent occasions when I now do). It's either because, I haven't turned through, my hands are late, or I've overswung, tilted and got stuck. The 2 teeshots I mentioned...I felt were down to a lack of turn. Reinforced by the extra emphasis on turn with the teeshot on 4

JAS, I'm no better than you at posting a score, but one thing I do know you're supposed to do is accept the swing you have on the day and not try to fix it. As such, the thing to do on 4 was probably aim further left rather than try to turn more?

I know what you're saying SJ and if I didn't have a Scooby why I had faded the first 2 drives then maybe. But had I done that and just swung I'd have either been in the trees left or blocked out with the 2nd shot (right to left dogleg Par 5). The first 2 drives were poor execution and not reflective of the 3 drives I hit on the range. 4 was an opportunity to aim where I normally aim trust the swing (a slight fade on that hole isn't the end of the world). It came off and by and large the driver worked for the rest of the day (with a couple of exceptions)

JAS wrote:

SmithersJones wrote:

JAS wrote:Mac with all due respect, you don't have to try that hard, you are insulting, I faded my first 2 teeshots. Missing the fairway by less than 5 yards (one of them to a left to right cross-wind) does not mean I have an endemic fade in my game or a slice.  I know my swing well enough to narrow down why I fade (on the infrequent occasions when I now do). It's either because, I haven't turned through, my hands are late, or I've overswung, tilted and got stuck. The 2 teeshots I mentioned...I felt were down to a lack of turn. Reinforced by the extra emphasis on turn with the teeshot on 4

JAS, I'm no better than you at posting a score, but one thing I do know you're supposed to do is accept the swing you have on the day and not try to fix it. As such, the thing to do on 4 was probably aim further left rather than try to turn more?

I know what you're saying SJ and if I didn't have a Scooby why I had faded the first 2 drives then maybe. But had I done that and just swung I'd have either been in the trees left or blocked out with the 2nd shot (right to left dogleg Par 5). The first 2 drives were poor execution and not reflective of the 3 drives I hit on the range. 4 was an opportunity to aim where I normally aim trust the swing (a slight fade on that hole isn't the end of the world). It came off and by and large the driver worked for the rest of the day (with a couple of exceptions)

Apologies, I misinterpreted

JAS wrote:Reinforced by the extra emphasis on turn with the teeshot on 4

to mean you'd hooked into trouble. On reading the earlier post I now see you in fact boomed it into trouble . I still think the point is valid, go with the swing you have on the day.

Have you tried a post shot routine?
A post shot routine has helped me with this kind of thing recently. Couldnt say I'm scoring much better but certainly bad rounds are not resulting in such bad scores. I definitely feel more relaxed during medals, matchplays and enjoying them more. I suppose my post shot routine helps me accept the fact that I will hit bad shots (as we all do).
I've made an effort not to swear (not that I was really bad with this, its more to try and not make any sort of verbal reaction) after a shot, then fix my divot/pick up tee, twirl the club for a good shot, TAP (not hit) the club twice for a really bad shot, reinforce in my head what I did right/what I should do (if its a bad shot) then once the club has been cleaned and back in bag thats the shot done with. Even if I forget to do my routine after a poor shot I will realise at some point I forgot then I just go over the shot in my head. It forces you to stop getting down and be subjective about it. Some will call it overthinking but thats probably whats gotten me into bad scores before. Some people can switch off (not me) and some need something to keep them busy.

And remember a double bogey at the end of the round counts exactly the same as 1 at the start or in the middle. Or in a bounce game. Meaning a bad hole shouldnt always be put down to nerves or bottle - can happen anytime.

I'm of the opinion that not playing in a "formal" competition removes some pressure that can allow me to play more freely and score better. I played 15 holes last night and was only 3 over, and I play off 12. The trick will be to bring that free flowing, relaxed swing to the qualifying competitions.

Do you think that playing off the back tees can make a difference? I know that when I play in a comp and the tees are right at the back it can make quite a difference re landing area, hazards, route through trees etc. The first at our place is wide open from blues or forward whites but off the very back you need a good 20 yards of fade to be able to get to the fairway (being a drawer of the ball, with a right to left wind with water on the left it is not an easy opener...) Giving it that little bit more to get to the spot you would play from more forward tees?

I only ever play off the backs, even in bounce games.

Do you guys prefer not to, or just not get the option to play in normal play?

Interesting Lairdy. I've never had (or even heard of anyone else having) a post shot routine before. I guess it could help compartmentalise shot vs non shot time and so give "closure" on each shot (good or bad).

Before I get to the post shot one I need to set a consistent pre-shot routine though! I suppose I haven't because I've not thought about it away from the course to decide on one, so not known what to practise so there is nothing ingrained. I do find it difficult on those shots that immediately become apparent to do anything other than grab club address and hit. Easier with ones that I am unsure about as I'll need think time anyway.

Definitely agree with going with what you've got on a day though and not trying to fix it out there! From there the original miss turns into a complete unknown miss as I either repeat the error or over compensate. Then, when I have that uncertainty I try to steer shots instead of properly swinging and going for them with the right club as a full shot. Then I'm in big trouble and anything could be written on the card!

super_realist wrote:I only ever play off the backs, even in bounce games.

Do you guys prefer not to, or just not get the option to play in normal play?

We play off blues for bounce games and whites are reserved for competition. But as I say where the whites are can make a big difference to the tee shot. Especially on 2 of the par 3's (can be as much as 2 clubs difference)

I don't see the point really unless you are playing with shortknockers.

When you play other sports you don't make them easier my increasing the goal size, using a bigger raquet or making the pockets bigger.

Each to his own I suppose, but I'm glad I'm not forbidden from playing any tee I like at my clubs.

Yeah I don't like it either but it was ever thus. Playing off the yellows is a joke!

I don't think we are forbidden to practise on the whites but it is certainly frowned upon and mention would be made!

There's certainly a few holes that are totally different length and angle and so there is little point practising what you would do in a comp properly from the yellow tees. Although they do give a chance to try out different types of shots and are so worthwhile in a different way.

I would just tell them to mind their own business.

It doesn't put anyone up or done where you play from so I don't understand the behaviour when people raise an eyebrow at people playing whites.

super_realist wrote:I would just tell them to mind their own business.

It doesn't put anyone up or done where you play from so I don't understand the behaviour when people raise an eyebrow at people playing whites.

I always assumed it was just to spread out the wear on the tees and retain a more pristine set for the club competitions, but I guess they could do that by regularly moving the tees about. I don't much care and there are only one or two holes it makes any difference on at my club. I'd much rather see them come down harder on players and societies who don't rake the bunkers correctly or repair pitch marks properly.

Surely if you let people use whatever tees they like then wear is spread around even more. It's only really par 3's where there is a real divot issue, and allowing people to tee it up further back would mean fewer greens being hit on par 3's so you save on pitchmark issues too.

I'm crap so I don't want to give the course any extra yards then necessary. I'm happy with the yellows.

I know Tiger has his post shot routine where he says he gives himself 10 paces to be angry and then it has to be forgotten

Lairdy, interesting that you have a different routine for good shots and bad ones. Would it be better if it was a consistent routine for all shots?

Thing is they're only relatively small areas at our place so I tow the line most of the time, does help protect them.

On tees - we had an inter club match (ostensibly committee vs committee) last Friday for a formal trophy but that was off the yellows, which I thought was bizarre.

probably hackers Roller

Beginning to think maybe I do have some form of scoreaphobia, could have birdied 4 of the first 5 today but missed all the putts (2 relatively easy ones). finally birdied 6 after stiffing a 5 iron from 210yards....So 1 under through 6, Everything was just flowing lovely. All of a sudden, no more free flow, it became a struggle, a scramble, finished 9 over...wtf??

On yellow v white tees ... I was always brought up to believe that whites were for comps only. When I joined my current club we always played from the yellows until we noticed that everyone else played off whites - so we asked in the pro shop and they basically said play from wherever you want.

So 95% of games now played off the whites - just occasionally I gatecrash a group of older gentlemen who only ever play off yellows .. and I must say I enjoy it playing off them for a change!

Only makes a real difference on probably 4 or 5 holes but they are very interesting to play with the difference

super_realist wrote:probably hackers Roller

Bit harsh - I'm not that bad!!!

I will have a card in my hand three times this weekend. Not sure bottle will be an issue, but the forecasted wind certainly will be.

Why is it always nice when you are in the office, but horrid come the weekend?

Don't forget it will return to being nice once the weekend is over. The forecast for our bank holiday weekend is showers and storms everyday and then nice on Tuesday.

Bloody typical eh? Mind you. For once last weekend I had two days of warm but overcast weather and no wind at all.

need to get yourself back down to edinburgh super - not much weather to complain about this summer

It's actually been a suberb summer Barra temperature and sunshine wise, the wind has been a nuisance at times though.

MustPuttBetter wrote:I know Tiger has his post shot routine where he says he gives himself 10 paces to be angry and then it has to be forgotten

Lairdy, interesting that you have a different routine for good shots and bad ones. Would it be better if it was a consistent routine for all shots?

The only difference is between either a quick twirl or 2 taps of the club. I did wonder about it being different but I suppose I have to allow myself some sort of reaction. The main point of it is having a subjective reaction to any shot. I really have to tell myself not to forget about the routine because thinking over a good shot is about as important as how you react to a bad shot. Got to emphasis what was good about the shot and keep that approach for the next shot.

I wouldnt say I have had one good medal round this year (ok, I've only been able to play 6) yet I have came down 1.2 and not a single 0.1 up the way either. Certainly wouldnt say its been down to a good short game getting me by - def been a better attitude.

Thanks Lairdy, that's interesting. I might try and pinch your idea if you don't mind! What specifically are the sorts of things you tend to reflect on the good shots? Line and length or more feel things (turn, swing speed etc)?

If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two imposters both the same...

Funny thing happened today on 17.One of our group putted up to no more than 8 inch and someone came over from an adjacent hole asking him a rules question(immovable obstruction) he answered the lad, went back to his put and somehow missed.probably the shortest putt I have ever seen missed! Comps its back tees IMO for most thinking too far in front and all a part of the overall test.

Well, as predicted, playing well both saturday and today and the winds of 30mph + ruined both rounds.