Capital One Cup Thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd pop one of these up...

Norwich currently beating Bury 3-0, Ravel Morrison gives Dolphin a boner with a goal on full debut

MK Dons currently leading Sunderland 2-0 meaning Sunderland players shall be starved tomorrow

Peterborough absolutely spanking a strong Reading side as well

[JamesLincs]

that hurt.

[Fernando]

Full time

Spurs 1-2 West Ham 

Look on the bright side of life Spurs fans it can't get any worse   

#BringBackJuandeRamos

[Dolphin Ziggler]

If Sherwood doesnt get a win then he should be handcuffed to the gates and slapped by every manager of Spurs' past

Christian Gross is waiting

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Beyond all the jubilation, Avram also got us to the semi finals

[Fernando]

Prediction for the draw

Manchester United vs West Ham
Sunderland vs Man City

[Fernando]

Actual Draw Is...

Sunderland vs Manchester United
Man City vs West Ham

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I kind of wanted United. City worst draw, but really who cares!



Football, bloody hell!

[NickisBHAFC]

Manchester final then. Better than the Bradford vs Swansea final last season! 

Shame we haven't seen that fairy-tale side though this year.

[Guest]

At least it will be a competitive final & worthy of watching.

[compelling and rich]

At least it will be a competitive final & worthy of watching.

did you not see our last derby!!

[Fernando]

Sunderland 1-0 Man Utd - Phil Bardsley or Giggs OG

[The Special Juan]

OG I think.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Feels like about 20 years since Vidic scored

[The Special Juan]

That's a timely goal. It was typical that it had to be O'Shea and Wes Brown who didn't get anywhere near him too.

Evans off injured, poor penalty decision.... When it's not going your way, it's not going your way!!

[Fernando]

Sunderland 2-1 United - Borini Pen

[Fernando]

, poor penalty decision....  When it's not going your way, it's not going your way!!

The only issue i have with it was weather it's in or out the box but it's a foul all day long. Silly tackle by Cleverley

Rafael gotta go surely for that. was only 5 seconds late but no he's got away with it somehow.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

#cleverleyfortheballond'or

[The Special Juan]

Rafael's such a liability.

[The Special Juan]

, poor penalty decision....  When it's not going your way, it's not going your way!!

The only issue i have with it was weather it's in or out the box but it's a foul all day long. Silly tackle by Cleverley

Rafael gotta go surely for that. was only 5 seconds late but no he's got away with it somehow.

It was a silly foul but I don't think it was in the box. Marginal, but not inside. I think Rafael was saved by Borini leaping into the air when his ickle toe was trodden on. One more and he's off.

[Fernando]

You're currently being wanked on by Adam Johnson, Just seemingly walking past your players at the moment.

[The Special Juan]

Januzaj's doing likewise.

What does Cleverley even do, aside from give away penalties?

[Fernando]

Apparently he is a footballer. Im starting to think im being lied to....

[The Special Juan]

I think he's Ali Dia v2.0

[Guest]

That 74 mins by Cleverley was simply embarrassing to watch.

[Fernando]

FT Sunderland 2-1 United

United got a lot of work to do in 2nd leg.

[Liam]

Dire performance, no creativity and no real sign of a game plan/tactics sent out by Moyes. He was too late in his substitutions again and it hurts me to say it but Giggs looks more and more past it each game he plays and realistically shouldn't play unless injuries force our hand. We obviously need better players to come into the football club but there's bigger problems really. I really want to back Moyes and i'll stick with him, never going to be easy but he needs to look at the way he's setting the team out and the way they play and quick.

[owen10ozzy]

I look at tonight's performance and what I see is a lack of effort across the board except one or two players. Everyone can go around moaning about Moyes all they like but the man was hand picked by Ferguson; the man who is the messiah at Old Trafford. He is not a bad manager, far from it....yet because Martinez is having an Indian summer at Everton suddenly Moyes is rubbish.

Yes Ferguson was good at getting the very best out of average players, a trait which Moyes may not be as good at...but why does that mean Moyes gets the blame? Why not the players themselves, who by all accounts are AVERAGE!

Though even that whole argument I can't buy into completely because Moyes was the man who got the likes of Jags, Osman, Piennar playing well above their station...and also introduced and bedded in Barkley & Coleman last season.

The simple fact is that Ferguson walked away at the perfect time; off the back of a season which saw perhaps the most underwhelming squad lift a premiership trophy. He knew it, hence he was quick to suddenly retire. That's not to slate him; after all he has done is entitled to walk when he want's. But he left knowing he had probably just got the final push/performances from the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Ferdinand, Vidic....and in the past 3 years did very little to build players to fulfill their positions.

Moyes needs time; if he gets it then United will be challenging for trophies again and quickly. I fully expect a mass exodus come the end of the season..and anyone who thinks that they won't be able to bring in big players without champions league football knows very little about the modern game!

[compelling and rich]

That 74 mins by Cleverley was simply embarrassing to watch.

74 minutes i wish!! try all of his united career

not quite sure whether its simply that januzaj is simply a wonderful talent or that the rest around him are that clueless there making him look so good

[The Special Juan]

I look at tonight's performance and what I see is a lack of effort across the board except one or two players. Everyone can go around moaning about Moyes all they like but the man was hand picked by Ferguson; the man who is the messiah at Old Trafford. He is not a bad manager, far from it....yet because Martinez is having an Indian summer at Everton suddenly Moyes is rubbish.

Yes Ferguson was good at getting the very best out of average players, a trait which Moyes may not be as good at...but why does that mean Moyes gets the blame? Why not the players themselves, who by all accounts are AVERAGE!

Though even that whole argument I can't buy into completely because Moyes was the man who got the likes of Jags, Osman, Piennar playing well above their station...and also introduced and bedded in Barkley & Coleman last season.

The simple fact is that Ferguson walked away at the perfect time; off the back of a season which saw perhaps the most underwhelming squad lift a premiership trophy. He knew it, hence he was quick to suddenly retire. That's not to slate him; after all he has done is entitled to walk when he want's. But he left knowing he had probably just got the final push/performances from the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Ferdinand, Vidic....and in the past 3 years did very little to build players to fulfill their positions.

Moyes needs time; if he gets it then United will be challenging for trophies again and quickly. I fully expect a mass exodus come the end of the season..and anyone who thinks that they won't be able to bring in big players without champions league football knows very little about the modern game!

That might be one of the finest posts I've ever read. I just hope Woodward also helps this time.

[kingraf]

If you can't blame the manager for average players playing average... then surely you can't blame average players for playing to their ability? You have to blame whoever brought them in, no?

[NickisBHAFC]

FACT: Manchester United have lost every match in 2014.

[compelling and rich]

owen, fergie also choose veron, djemba djemba, kleberson and many others did we stick with them even though they were not good enough? simply because fergie choose them, why does moyes get a free pass despite him walking from one calamity to another. fergie is not perfect he does make mistakes

fergie knew it was the right time to retire as the squad wanting rebuilding and he knew he didnt have the time to do it again so left when the manager taking over would have a massive war chest and be able to bring in his own players. its not fergies fault that moyes has proven totally inept in doing so.

this team isnt average, no team ever to win the premership is average. with the right direction and good management and a couple of right signings this team could still have challenged, certainly not uniteds strongest squad, but still better than nearly all other prem teams. i bet if we got mourinho instead of moyes we would be up there challenging

[owen10ozzy]

I look at tonight's performance and what I see is a lack of effort across the board except one or two players. Everyone can go around moaning about Moyes all they like but the man was hand picked by Ferguson; the man who is the messiah at Old Trafford. He is not a bad manager, far from it....yet because Martinez is having an Indian summer at Everton suddenly Moyes is rubbish.

Yes Ferguson was good at getting the very best out of average players, a trait which Moyes may not be as good at...but why does that mean Moyes gets the blame? Why not the players themselves, who by all accounts are AVERAGE!

Though even that whole argument I can't buy into completely because Moyes was the man who got the likes of Jags, Osman, Piennar playing well above their station...and also introduced and bedded in Barkley & Coleman last season.

The simple fact is that Ferguson walked away at the perfect time; off the back of a season which saw perhaps the most underwhelming squad lift a premiership trophy. He knew it, hence he was quick to suddenly retire. That's not to slate him; after all he has done is entitled to walk when he want's. But he left knowing he had probably just got the final push/performances from the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Ferdinand, Vidic....and in the past 3 years did very little to build players to fulfill their positions.

Moyes needs time; if he gets it then United will be challenging for trophies again and quickly. I fully expect a mass exodus come the end of the season..and anyone who thinks that they won't be able to bring in big players without champions league football knows very little about the modern game!

That might be one of the finest posts I've ever read.  I just hope Woodward also helps this time.

I've been saying it for past few years mate; it's shocked me how little effort Fergie & those around him put in when coming to rebuilding the team. Lest we forget that this is a club who have for years been praised about the way in which they get their cycles spot on so that as old players left, young prospects were ready to step up....Robson, Bruce, Pallister etc...onto Giggs, Scholes, Neville. They used to be so good at building the spine of the team with talent from the academy and then completing the team with a couple of 'big names/proven players'.

Those they have brought in have on the whole failed to live up to expectations... Nani, Anderson, Valencia, Young, etc.

For me Fergie deserves his share of criticism for the problems at the club right now; he won't receive any because of the success he has had.

It's funny because even Gill has come out looking like an angel, when if you reflect on the signings he helped make....was he even that great?! I would question his credentials certainly.

Kingraf - You can blame the players for seemingly not putting in the efforts they were putting in 12 months ago. I could see your point if they even looked interested, they don't!! Like you said...blame whoever brought them in...that being the old regime...like i mentioned above. In fact the two bright spots of Uniteds squad atm are two players Moyes has arguably made a decision on...Januzaj & Welbeck who has played a more prominent role under Moyes.

[compelling and rich]

not buying into its all fergies fault, he left a title winning team!! its not his fault moyes cant get the same out of them!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

It's not all Fergie's fault C+R, but he has to take a fair chunk of the blame. This is an average squad, with aging players past their best, and youngsters not quite ready yet.

Last season was such a weird one, because Utd weren't great. Just total incompetance from other title rivals led to such a wide winning margin

[compelling and rich]

what fergie would have been critised for was if he signed loads of players then retired, players who probably only came because of fergie (rvp anyone) and moyes may well have been stuck with loads of players he didnt want. he left him a clean slate to do what he wants with it and a shed load of money

[compelling and rich]

fact is if moyes was doing his job properly we wouldnt even be talking about fergie, in fact if moyes was just doing averagely we wouldnt be talking about it. most united fans had small ambitions this season (top 4 and challenge in a cup preferably a fa over league cup) and those ambitions with the team he was inheriting with the money given should have been easily achievable

[Duty281]

How long before Moyes hears the first rumblings of discontent?

Maybe he's already hearing them?

[owen10ozzy]

owen, fergie also choose veron, djemba djemba, kleberson and many others did we stick with them even though they were not good enough? simply because fergie choose them, why does moyes get a free pass despite him walking from one calamity to another. fergie is not perfect he does make mistakes

fergie knew it was the right time to retire as the squad wanting rebuilding and he knew he didnt have the time to do it again so left when the manager taking over would have a massive war chest and be able to bring in his own players. its not fergies fault that moyes has proven totally inept in doing so.

this team isnt average, no team ever to win the premership is average. with the right direction and good management and a couple of right signings this team could still have challenged, certainly not uniteds strongest squad, but still better than nearly all other prem teams. i bet if we got mourinho instead of moyes we would be up there challenging

Fergie had a much larger array of players to choose from at the time of those signings. Moyes has inherited a squad full of old players, average players (in comparison to other Utd teams) and injury prone players. Giggs, Ferdinand, Vidic looking their age. Jones, Smalling, Evans constantly picking up niggles. It's easy saying he had a war chest in summer but everything points to the contrary; lest we forget that United made plenty of changes at boardroom level in the summer...something which would have had a huge impact on when they could go about their transfer business and indeed how they went about it.

Regards him knowing he didn't have the time to rebuild...surely that is the point, it shouldn't have got to that point. This was a man famed for having a new team built in time for the passing of the guard. Something he hasn't done over the past 4 years.

As for your last point; perhaps average is the wrong word...but I would certainly claim it's perhaps one of the 'worst' (in comparison to those who have won) squads to have won the league title. Lest we forget how much of United's title winning season was down to Van Persie alone last year...a guy who has suddenly gone back to his injury hit self...something else which hinders Moyes ability to do anything with this team. As for the squad being better than nearly all other premiership teams; for me that claim shows how lucky United fans have had it to even think that. There are so many players in that United squad which simply are not good enough to be wearing the shirt:

Valencia
Rafael
Anderson
Fabio
Young
Smalling (controversial one but don't think he has the physical prowess or defensive mind to be a top top defender)

Those that are past it/too old/injury prone

Giggs (Too Old now)
Fletcher (an ok player at his best, far from that following his bad luck)
Ferdinand (not able to play at a constantly high level anymore)

I'm not saying Fergie is completely to blame, and of course Moyes does need to do better. But he has been without Rooney for large parts of the season, Van Persie has been out...two huge blows. You say Fergie would have been critcised for signing a load of players and retiring...but that isn't what Fergie ever did. What he did was bring through 5/6 youngsters (from academy) as the spine and surround them with good signings. That is something he failed to do over the past 4 years and now we are beginning to see that; unfortunately for Moyes it's happening under his regime...partly his fault yes...enough to warrant the criticism he is getting from many Utd fans...definitely not!

[Liam]

Moyes needs time. He hasn't had chance to bring in his own players and inherited a squad that is average and past it. The summer was a disaster and we went after unrealistic targets such as Fabregas. Like Ozzy illuded to, there are many players that need to be moved on at the end of the season:

Fabio
Ferdinand (may retire)
Vidic
Cleverly
Young
Giggs (definitely retire)
valencia
Anderson

That's allot of players but it needs to happen and it'll free up allot of the wage budget. There is a need then to bring through the next generation of players like Fergie did many times:

Lindgard
Januzaj
Zaha
Keane

then bring in some good players around them and build a squad over the next few seasons, with the main areas needing strengthening being:

CB
LB
CDM
CM (Probably 2 needed here)
LW
RW

That is what is needed and we need to give Moyes that chance to do so.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Fergie won the league at a canter with this squad so to blame him is ridiculous and he was quite clearly rebuilding the squad at the same time.

De Gea, Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Welbeck, Januzaj and Zaha all young players either bought or brought through in the couple of seasons preceding his retirement, hell he'd even bought the best striker in the league. He left a championship winning squad, a squad that had won the league easier than any team has for years, that squad should be performing at a far higher level than it is. At a level that Ferguson himself would have demanded them to play at, so the people to blame are those who didn't invest properly during the summer; Moyes and Woodward.

Another issue that Moyes brought with him was changing the back room staff, we had the most meticulously chosen coaches possible, losing Meulensteen in itself is something Moyes should have avoided at all costs.

[Duty281]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2534925/David-Moyes-handed-200m-rebuild-Manchester-United.html

This absolutely takes the biscuit - Moyes has apparently got £200 million to rescue Manchester United.

[compelling and rich]

totally agree hammersmith, some of the names mentioned there are some of the best young talent in the league.

owen i agree with the majority of the players you mentioned, apart from rafael who has come on well the last couple of years, pretty steady now if only he could remain fit. Valencia still has a place in the squad, in fact decent squad player whos always willing to put 100% and probably wont mind not starting every game, nani and young are the two wingers we need shot of.

also extremely harsh on smalling, consistently out performed jones when both played at cb. yet everybody is creaming over jones. smalling is by far and away the more natural defender and reads the games better than jones. jones gets away with it because his physicality and pace. but smalling as well as jones have been disappointing with injuries

the team moyes inherited :

de gea - best keeper in the league for the past two seasons
rafeal- good enough rb for united
evans- been great at the back for a few seasons, will help if he gets a consistent partner
smalling/jones - both top young up and coming cb
evra- past his best, but still ok. has varied performances now
carrick- voted best cm under fergie in previous season
clev/anderson/giggs- the obvious gap that moyes himself filled with fellaini who's looked pretty shocking so far
januzaj- credit to moyes for bringing him in, but he still inherited him and the hard work and already been put in
zaha/valencia- give zaha a chance he might flourish, valencia a steady winger to replace him if not
rvp and rooney- dont forget these two two of the best players in the prem, with handy replacements like wellbeck and hernadez as back up

is this team really that weak and old? i see a team there if got playing properly with the right direction (not all this negative football we have played under moyes so far) that should easily make top 4. if he had signed someone else instead of fellani that team could have looked even stronger.

[Guest]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2534925/David-Moyes-handed-200m-rebuild-Manchester-United.html

This absolutely takes the biscuit - Moyes has apparently got £200 million to rescue Manchester United.

I dont believe a word of this

The only thing I believe about 200 million is the value that the club has declined by on the stock market after recent results


As for getting back on topic of the capital one cup tom cleverley really doesnt do himself any favours. This guy should be the one going out with a point to prove but hes so pedestrian its borderline insulting that he picks up a footballers wage.

I would imagine Moyes will also be recieving a letter from the FA after his post match comments

[Hammersmith harrier]

I will apportion absolutely none of the blame on Ferguson, you cannot blame the single most important person in the clubs history for anything, without him we wouldn't have had the success we have had.

If the squad really is as poor as some people make out then Ferguson needs to canonised because he pulled off more than one miracle in recent years. Winning the league without really breaking sweat after January, losing the previous title on goal difference and winning the league the season before that.

Moyes need to realise what Fergie did, that we do not have the defensive capability to keep 14 consecutive clean sheets so play attacking football to make use of the best players we do have. All the problems we have this year we had last year but unlike last year we can't score 4/5 goals a game to get out of a hole.

[compelling and rich]

not seen his post match comments gazzy, turned it off in a huff. what did he say?

[Guest]

It was in jest but seeing as the FA dont have a sense of humour I can see them giving him a slap on the wrists

He said that recently we havent just been playing the opposition but the match officials as well

[owen10ozzy]

totally agree hammersmith, some of the names mentioned there are some of the best young talent in the league.

owen i agree with the majority of the players you mentioned, apart from rafael who has come on well the last couple of years, pretty steady now if only he could remain fit. Valencia still has a place in the squad, in fact decent squad player whos always willing to put 100% and probably wont mind not starting every game, nani and young are the two wingers we need shot of.

also extremely harsh on smalling, consistently out performed jones when both played at cb. yet everybody is creaming over jones. smalling is by far and away the more natural defender and reads the games better than jones. jones gets away with it because his physicality and pace. but smalling as well as jones have been disappointing with injuries

the team moyes inherited :

de gea - best keeper in the league for the past two seasons
rafeal- good enough rb for united
evans- been great at the back for a few seasons, will help if he gets a consistent partner
smalling/jones - both top young up and coming cb
evra- past his best, but still ok. has varied performances now
carrick- voted best cm under fergie in previous season
clev/anderson/giggs- the obvious gap that moyes himself filled with fellaini who's looked pretty shocking so far
januzaj- credit to moyes for bringing him in, but he still inherited him and the hard work and already been put in
zaha/valencia- give zaha a chance he might flourish, valencia a steady winger to replace him if not
rvp and rooney- dont forget these two two of the best players in the prem, with handy replacements like wellbeck and hernadez as back up

is this team really that weak and old? i see a team there if got playing properly with the right direction (not all this negative football we have played under moyes so far) that should easily make top 4. if he had signed someone else instead of fellani that team could have looked even stronger.

I agree that the starting XI isn't all that bad at all yet there are glaring issues which Moyes has faced which I don't think he is as culpable for as he is being made out. Lets go with that team you mentioned as the best XI for United...

Jones rarely played in his preferred position for Alex Ferguson and the same can be said for Smalling; You can't suddenly put a player into a position and expect him to get to complete grasps with it when for the past 2 years they have barely had a consistent run in the first team and even when they have they have been playing in different positions like it was a game of musical chairs.

I disagree regards Rafael; whilst he can have his good games he often becomes petulant when things aren't going his way and he can often be found wanting when transitioning between attack and defence...in the modern era of the roaming full back he falls well short of being Man Utd class. The same can be said of his twin brother.

Whilst I am one of those who rate Carrick highly; he is a player who retains possessions and nothing much else. Now I'm not saying that it isn't influential and important because it is....especially in Europe, yet it is only effective when you have a midfielder (or two) in front of him who are looking to receive the ball and penetrate that final 3rd be it with a run or pass...something Utd have lacked since around 2008/9! There is no one to blame but Ferguson for not having sorted out this gap already! That leads me on to Fellaini who has been very disappointing so far and is now out injured.

Then we move out wide....the gravest area of concern for Utd for me. When you consider this is an area which has had the likes of Sharpe, Beckham, Giggs, Ronaldo, Kanchelskis etc the current crop are far from that standard. I have to agree I am baffled as to why he hasn't given Zaha a chance and this is the one thing which I think you can really chastise him. Again though you have to look at the previous regime who wasted money on relatively unproven players when looking to replace Ronaldo etc. Young?! One good season at Villa...well one and a half. Nani complete waste of money (quite why he was handed a 5 year deal lord only knows)! Valencia is ok but I see him as the Milner of Utd...does nothing great but nothing that useful either, basically puts in a shift.

Then upfront you have two world class players. One was extremely unhappy and on the verge of leaving due to mismanagement by previous regime and the other has gone back to getting injured again. Ferguson was very lucky he got the one full length campaign out of Van Persie last season...something which I don't think Utd will ever get again.

So a decent XI but nothing outstanding...in fact I would say probably on a par with Liverpool with the exception that Utd don't have a player who is at the absolute peak of his game playing world class week in week out. Then when you look at the players below that then I'm sorry but it falls appalling short of what is expected of a Man Utd squad.

Ferguson is an absolute legend of the game no doubt about that; but I don't think he is exempt from criticism for the mess Utd currently find themselves. That isn't to say he isn't totally to blame because clearly Moyes isn't doing something which Ferguson did...and that's get the best out of them.

Moyes has been absolutely plagued by injuries this year and I think any team struggles without their best striker when they have a midfield which lacks creativity.

Like I said earlier; I just think the roots of these problems now being seen have been there a while but weren't rooted out under the old regime, now the cracks are too big to plug in and rather sadly United fans are already turning on the manager. I'll repeat my belief that Moyes is most definitely good enough for the Utd job....if he wasn't Fergie wouldn't have ensured he got the job.

Everyone will keep pulling out this Ferguson won the league last year; but he did so in a year of complete upheaval and mismanagement at those clubs around them. Man City were so inconsistent last year that anyone who put together a run of 8-10 results stood a chance of winning the title. Now of course Ferguson should rightly be heralded for ensuring Utd took full advantage....yet that doesn't mean you completely forget the point that other teams were just poorer. Arsenal had there best striker plucked from them, Chelsea looked like it was being run by a group of chickens & City looked like they were still on holiday until January.

[Champagne_Socialist]

stop being a WUM. Ferguson left a title winning winning team and it was moyes who tried to sign players who had no intention of joining united eg baines, fabregas etc that cost united.

If moyes had signed 2 decent players in the summer united would not be in this situation. Spending nearly 30 million on fellani was a massive waste.

[The Fourth Lion]

Manchester United won the Premier League last season because City were in a complete and utter mess with all the dressing room strife caused by certain disruptive personalities. Had they not had those issues to deal with, it is probable that the Premiership would have been a lot closer. Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea had their own issues to deal with and simply weren't up to the test.

Manchester United took advantage of everybody else's difficulties and with the master manipulator, Ferguson, pulling all the right strings at Old Trafford. His squad, brilliant in parts, moderate in others, was able to win the league by such a margin that they looked a far better team than they actually were.

One year on, things are a lot different. You don't need me to go into the details.

Frankly, I don't think Manchester United struggling is necessarily a bad thing for English football. Interest in the Premiership is being stimulated because the title race is wide open for a change. United are out of the FA Cup and unlikely to mount a serious challenge in Europe. If they can recover to beat Sunderland in the second leg of the League Cup and then overcome, (in all probability, given the way West Ham are playing right now) Manchester City in the final(and wouldn't City just loooooooove to turn them over in a Wembley final..!!) , they would gladly accept the crumb of comfort that the League Cup would be for a club of their stature.

As for last night's game, I thought United played some pretty sharp football at times against a Sunderland team that is becoming more and more dogged and difficult to beat as the weeks go by. Sunderland's goals were both fortuitous to say the least. it's not like United to go to sleep right on half time, but they did, and Sunderland benefitted with a scrappy goal. Usually, it's the other way round. The penalty for a foul on Johnson was harsh and I doubt very much that it would have been given at Old Trafford (how many games is it now, since United had a pen given against them there..? 75+, I think).

United have their problems..... that's pretty much obvious to anybody, but the only people shedding tears about that are Manchester United fans. It is going to take Moyse time to find his feet, sort out the team and deal with the increased challenges from other clubs who sense United's current weakness and will try to exploit it as ruthlessly as Sralex did when they were in a similar position.

As for the United fans, all that can be said about them, is that there is a generation of supporters who are learning for the first time what three defeats in a row feels like. I think the experience will do them no harm at all.

Look at it as character building, fellas.

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