Capital One Cup Thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd pop one of these up...

Norwich currently beating Bury 3-0, Ravel Morrison gives Dolphin a boner with a goal on full debut

MK Dons currently leading Sunderland 2-0 meaning Sunderland players shall be starved tomorrow

Peterborough absolutely spanking a strong Reading side as well

[Guest]

Van Persie won the premiership for Man Utd last year. This year he is injured. They also had an aging Scholes performing in the mid-field and he has retired. They brought in Fellaini and he has been injured. Rooney is now injured - but I think they have been overusing him - he seems to play all over the pitch (defence & attack).

It's going to be a question of whether Moyes can build a team. The longer he goes without winning a trophy doubts will remain on his cup management credentials.

The BBC had a report out a few days ago saying last summers transfer period for Man Utd was a one off & that Moyes cannot be blamed for the lack of transfers during it (something about head of recruitment also moving on with Fergusson - Fergusson not having any plans in place regarding targets etc and Moyes not having had time to assess the players at Man Utd ...). Unfortunately I can't find that report on their website now - so can't give the link.

Ps I am not happy with Moyes moaning that the penalty shouldn't have been awarded to Sunderland.

[Guest]

I found this - this opinion piece puts more of the blame on Moyes - in particularly Moyes is blamed for firing the Man Utd back room staff (hence loss of continuity and knowledge) and moving them on & then taking a holiday rather than getting to work immediately:
http://worldsoccertalk.com/2014/01/07/the-7-mistakes-manchester-united-made-in-the-sir-alex-ferguson-david-moyes-transition/

[Guest]

huge game tonight against City! I'd love to think that we can pull of an upset but sadly i can't see that happening

[Duty281]

stop being a WUM. Ferguson left a title winning winning team and it was moyes who tried to sign players who had no intention of joining united eg baines, fabregas etc that cost united.

If moyes had signed 2 decent players in the summer united would not be in this situation. Spending nearly 30 million on fellani was a massive waste.

I don't think Moyes is the one in control of signing players.

[Fernando]

[Guest]

I don't think Moyes is in control of the eleven he has out on the pitch at times. He seems to accept defeat too readily and to my mind, this indifference is already transferring itself to the players.

Moyes seems to be of the mindset that he's going to have a poor season and the players think "Well, if the gaffer doesn't give a **** why should I?"

Get as many players in as you like but if the manager can't instill a bit of grit, fight and drive in them, it's ultimately going to be a massive waste of time.

The cynical side of me thinks that even if he does start getting a decent performance out of them, it'll only be because they're actually looking to impress another team in the hope of getting a move away in the Summer.

[Guest]

When Fergusson was made manager of Man Utd he had a track record of winning tournaments (several league & Cup titles in Scotland & a European Cup). The jury is still out with Moyes - the fact that he never won a cup title creates doubt as to his ultimate potential.

[compelling and rich]

i agree dave about there being a significant change in mindset of the players, too often this season we have set up like the first and foremost priority is not to lose, it was his tactics for everton so we shouldn't be surprised he's always been a negative coach, theres a reason why OT is no longer feared because teams know they wont have there backs against the wall for at least 75 minutes. i can count at least 5 games this season where we were losing and chasing the game and we didnt force the opposition keeper into a meaning full save the whole time. so unlike united

we all know we have a weak midfield, but whats exasperated the issue is moyes insistence on playing just two in there. every game where we played well this season has been when he has put a extra player in there to help out (normally jones), but takes a flexible manager and one with balls to move or drop a rooney or rvp to accommodate whats best for the team

finally to all those people saying we won the league only because the rivals were weak is rubbish, we still were winning all of our games something which were clearly not doing now. we ended up on 89 points which is a fantastic points total, it may have been slightly lower if rivals were better but not by much. city still beat us in the home derby, as did spurs and chelsea. its not like all a sudden the rest of the prem has suddenly strengthened, im not having that crystal palace, cardiff and hull as well as the form of west ham, sunderland and fulham have improved the quality of the premiership this season. could also add spurs, ourselves, stoke to that list to suggest the leagues weaker this season and thats probably why its tighter with the likes of arsenal and liverpool joining the title race.

[Guest]

That 74 mins by Cleverley was simply embarrassing to watch.

74 minutes i wish!! try all of his united career

not quite sure whether its simply that januzaj is simply a wonderful talent or that the rest around him are that clueless there making him look so good

You don't need to tell me about the appalling Mr. Cleverley, was probably one of the first a couple of years ago stating this kid was shocking. Last night though he was truly horrifyingly bad. Not only the penalty incident but his passing was wayward n his inability to control the midfield was bare for everyone to see.

The Januzaj situation is difficult, think he`s got good talent, however, the lack of pace will be an issue. Think he is being elevated into something wonderful, especially when your playing better than a Cleverley & a 40 year old.

Still think United will turn it around in the second leg but the final, if they get there, will lay out all United`s frailties once more against City.

[Fernando]

Man City: Pantilimon, Zabaleta, Kompany, Lescott, Clichy, Nasri, Toure, Javi Garcia, Silva, Negredo, Dzeko. Subs: Hart, Milner, Kolarov, Fernandinho, Demichelis, Nastasic, Lopes.

West Ham: Adrian, Demel, Johnson, McCartney, O'Brien, Joe Cole, Noble, Diame, Taylor, Downing, Maiga. Subs: Jarvis, Rat, Collison, Morrison, Diarra, Jaaskelainen, Carlton Cole.

Referee: Jon Moss (W Yorkshire)

[Fernando]

Citeh 2-0 WHU - Negredo x2

[The Special Juan]

Don't suppose bookies are doing odds on a domestic treble for City?....

[Fernando]

Don't suppose bookies are doing odds on a domestic treble for City?....

14/1

[The Special Juan]

Crikey! That's amazing! I should lump on that.

[Fernando]

Crikey! That's amazing!  I should lump on that.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/man-city/trophy-multiples

[Fernando]

Citeh 3-0 WHU - Yaya Toure

To think Big Sam rested players for this occasion.

[Duty281]

That's the tie over already.

[The Special Juan]

Crikey! That's amazing!  I should lump on that.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/man-city/trophy-multiples

It goes against every fibre of my being as a Utd fan

[Fernando]

Crikey! That's amazing!  I should lump on that.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/man-city/trophy-multiples

It goes against every fibre of my being as a Utd fan

Then cover yourself by betting on United to win the COC(K)

[Liam]

City rampant at home, heard that a few times this season. Negredo out of this world. I think most would have expected Soldado to out perform him in their first seasons in the prem, for me anyway. His two finishes are scarily good and Toure again outstanding. For me, West Ham should have played Diame further up field and have him almost man mark Toure, so he doesn't get chance to go on his marauding runs. Once he get's going there's no stopping him. Going for a 5-0 city win.

[The Special Juan]

Soonderland are probably going to win it then. United to win the FA Cup! (oh wait...)

[GSC]

10-0 and counting in the last 150 minutes

[Guest]

West Ham had a zero chance of progressing in this tournament.  It is said they only have 14 senior players in which to choose from given their casualties.  The question is what could Sam Allardyce gain from this match?  All I can think of is trying a few of the juniors (again) and trying to set up a defensive system to minimise the goals and blunt the city attack.

I can see Sunderland hanging on for a draw at Old Trafford although the probably outcome is a City - Utd final with City winning 17 - 2 in the final (in the absence of Rooney & Van Persie).

[The Special Juan]

Jeezus, even Dzeko has scored tonight. West Ham must be bad.

[westisbest]

Just had a look at the score, there really is no point in playing the second leg.

West Ham may as well concede the tie and save the players for the league.

[Duty281]

Upton Park may be a bit empty for the second leg.

[Guest]

The "problem" with city is that they keep going when the match is long won. Other managers would take players off to rest and close up shop - trying not to expend too much further energy - in order to prepare for the next match. Maybe this might partly explain the dips they tend to have in away matches (expending too much energy in the "easy" home matches).

[Fernando]

Man Citeh 6-0 WHU - Dzeko x2 Negredo x3 Yaya Toure 

absolutely pathetic showing by West Ham.

[Duty281]

Surely Big Sam's got to go now? Two hammerings in a row, one by a lower-league side, out of both cups, and in the relegation places.

[Ent]

I kinda hope Sunderland beat us so we don't get thrashed by city on the final.

[Guest]

with every passing match, our season hits new lows!!!  What else has got to happen for us to find a new manager!!!!!!!!!?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Forest are clearly Poopie

[Guest]

West Ham fans seem to want Sam Allardyce out and Malky Mackay in.  But what can he do with only 14 senior players to choose from?  It is said that over the next few weeks he should get some players back from injury - so maybe everyone should wait a little?

It seems that if they did get rid of Sam Allardyce that would be an immediate 6 million loss for West Ham.

[The Fourth Lion]

A word about the referee in the City vs West Ham match tonight.  He was completely anonymous, which is how it should be.  No yellow cards, a match that was allowed to flow, and even when O'Brien had a spat with Dzeko, he let them sort it out between themselves and the game went on.  

I don't think Dzeko took a dive.  Why should he..?  City were almost scoring at will.  They don't need penalties to give West Ham a slapping.

People are very quick to criticise referees, and this one should be given a bit of credit where it's due, methinks.

I feel a lot of sympathy for Sam Allardyce.  He's not a mug and it's difficult to see how anybody that West Ham could bring in now would make any difference.......  Including Malky Mackay (assuming Mackay wants the job).   With that in mind, it's a question of "better the devil you know".  At least Sam Allardyce knows these players and I don't think he's "lost the dressing room."   He's probably West Ham's best option right now.

Having said that, there is no denying West Ham are in trouble, and there is more than just the immediate thread of relegation to worry about.  It goes beyond that.  They've committed themselves to moving to the Olympic Stadium and they need to be doing that as a Premiership team.  They could find themselves in a lot of financial difficulty if they make the (very expensive) move on a Championship income.  

West Ham's anxieties extend a lot further than going out of two cup competitions* in four days.





*Notwithstanding the second leg of the League Cup Semi Final.

[NickisBHAFC]

If they are to get rid of Big Sam they need to do it NOW. So a new manager can use the January window and get a squad together that can have a chance of staying up. Or leave Big Sam until the end of the season and let him use the Window.

Either way with this squad and the way West Ham are playing, i can only see them playing Championship football next season. However on February 1st I could be saying something completely difficult.

Nonetheless, the scary thing is i thought City were fairly average tonight, West Ham defense was just laughable. Great signing Roger Johnson that.

If Big Sam is staying, he has probably his biggest month of his managerial career in front of him.

[Duty281]

Might be a bit embarrassing if West Ham play in the giant Olympic Stadium whilst in the second-tier. Financial burden as well.

[GSC]

Better get ready for Andy Carroll to.be billed as the messiah

[Guest]

Better get ready for Andy Carroll to.be billed as the messiah

According to Revelations the return of the messiah will herald in the apocalypse and the end of time which I am not sure would be good for West Hams prospects of staying up.

[sodhat]

Better get ready for Andy Carroll to.be billed as the messiah

According to Revelations the return of the messiah will herald in the apocalypse and the end of time which I am not sure would be good for West Hams prospects of staying up.

At least I won't have to travel to Middlesbrough away.

[sodhat]

"My own instinct is the West Ham fans, who are usually brilliant, were toxic towards the manager. They don't like the style of football being imposed by Allardyce. While they were winning they could tolerate it."

Alan Green has it bang on. The majority of the fans will not tolerate losing in the style we are. We can tolerate losing - believe me, we're used to it - but if we're doing it and playing horrible, negative football then the fuse is lit...and short.

[Hulking_up]

I was listening to radio 5 live and after the game they brought up a good point.
Will anyone show up to watch the second leg?
Hammers are crap and out and will City fans bother to make the trip?

[Duty281]

Andy Carroll starting tonight in a ninety minute training exercise.

[GSC]

West Ham charging 48 quid for this garbage

[Duty281]

It finished 0-9.

And to think Sam rested some players for the first leg, thereby ending their chances in the FA Cup.

[NickisBHAFC]

How West Ham can have the nerve to charge 48 quid is beyond me.

But the sad sad thing is, a lot of other clubs would probably do the same. 

Days of watching football on the cheap are well and truly gone.

[The Fourth Lion]

The first time I went to Upton Park, my dad paid 2 bob at the turnstile and I got in for a shilling.   That's a total of 15p in decimal currency.   Allowing for inflation from that day to this, it's still less than £3.

That day, West Ham's team included Bobby Moore, Martin Peters, Geoff Hurst and Harry Redknapp and were playing against a Manchester United team that included Charlton, Law, Crerand, Foulkes and a load of other British born players who now genuinely qualify as "legends".

But hey...... £48 a head is what it costs to bring "The cream of world football" to the Premiership in the 21st Century.  

Still, look on the bright side.  One day you'll be able to tell your grandchildren you saw Jussi Jaskalienen, Razvan Rat and (something) Diame play.

[BlueCoverman]

I bumped into Martin Peters and his wife in a small mid-Essex town last week and had a brief hello. He still looks pretty slim and fit. It must be a nice feeling to know that you are one of only two Englishmen who will ever score a goal in a World Cup Final!

[guildfordbat]

Lion - I've heard 'Arry Redknapp say, ''We had three World Cup winners in the West Ham team and still struggled. Shows how crap the other eight of us were!''   

BlueCover - yes, a nice feeling for Peters but still must be frustrating for him to know that if our defence had held out for a few more moments at the end of 90 minutes he would have been the scorer of England's World Cup winning goal and, instead of Hurst, might have got the knighthood to now make him Sir Martin!

[BlueCoverman]

Very true Guildford and we wouldn't have had all that 'did it cross the line' debate about the 3rd goal. Perhaps we might even have won a few more matches on penalties instead of paying for that 'goal' ever since!  

[mystiroakey]

predictions tonight lads.

At least one isn't dead rubber!

1-1 for me. I think Sunderland will hang on. Rooney doesn't look likely to make an appearance

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