Capital One Cup Thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd pop one of these up...

Norwich currently beating Bury 3-0, Ravel Morrison gives Dolphin a boner with a goal on full debut

MK Dons currently leading Sunderland 2-0 meaning Sunderland players shall be starved tomorrow

Peterborough absolutely spanking a strong Reading side as well

[compelling and rich]

chelsea player of the year two years running over the likes of 50mil torres, 32 mil hazard. hazards having a great season but when mata has been given a chance he's out performed him every year he's been there.

37 mil for one of the best players in the prem isnt too bad if you ask me, especially when you are selling to a rival

[compelling and rich]

Actually pretty cheap considering how desperate we are currently and it is in January.

I'm just saying that if chelsea sold him to Athletico madrid for eg in the summer he would go for about 18-20 mil not the 40 mil man u will pay.

athletico couldnt afford that, we can and chelsea know that. add that we are a rival in the same division makes perfect sense.

id rather sell rooney abroad next season for a lot less than we would get if we sold him to english club

[Hammersmith harrier]

Yes because we need Ibrahimovic when we have Rooney and Van Persie. If we sign Mata it disproves all the BS you've been spewing everywhere about champions league, if Ozil is worth £42mil then Mata isn't far off that.

What BS am I speout CL that you signing Mata would disprove? last time I checked you are in the CL......

Last time I checked we're 7th in the table and Mata would be cup tied, like i've said all along money talks the champions league does not.

[Ent]

No he wouldn't, they paid less than that for him.

[Champagne_Socialist]

Yes because we need Ibrahimovic when we have Rooney and Van Persie. If we sign Mata it disproves all the BS you've been spewing everywhere about champions league, if Ozil is worth £42mil then Mata isn't far off that.

What BS am I speout CL that you signing Mata would disprove? last time I checked you are in the CL......

Last time I checked we're 7th in the table and Mata would be cup tied, like i've said all along money talks the champions league does not.

you keep saying that the CL doesn't affect a team's ability to buy players... whatever helps you sleep at night. You are going back on my ignore list cos you talk nonsense, I am still laughing at your comment that Ozil was a bit part player at Madrid even though he averaged over 50 appearances a season and averaged over 40 starts a season   

[Champagne_Socialist]

Actually pretty cheap considering how desperate we are currently and it is in January.

I'm just saying that if chelsea sold him to Athletico madrid for eg in the summer he would go for about 18-20 mil not the 40 mil man u will pay.

athletico couldnt afford that, we can and chelsea know that. add that we are a rival in the same division makes perfect sense.

id rather sell rooney abroad next season for a lot less than we would get if we sold him to english club

I put athletico as eg it could have been juventus or madrid or unich etc etc.

faact is this season Mata has done nothing and has barely played. 40 mil fr a cup tied player who is only going to play 15 games for you this season maximum as you are out the fa cuo. league cup and he is cup tied for CL. Chelsea are selling to you because you are paying 20 million more than what they value him at.

[Duty281]

You underrate Mata.

37 million is fantastic these days for a man of his talent.

[Crimey]

Actually pretty cheap considering how desperate we are currently and it is in January.

I'm just saying that if chelsea sold him to Athletico madrid for eg in the summer he would go for about 18-20 mil not the 40 mil man u will pay.

athletico couldnt afford that, we can and chelsea know that. add that we are a rival in the same division makes perfect sense.

id rather sell rooney abroad next season for a lot less than we would get if we sold him to english club

I put athletico as eg it could have been juventus or madrid or unich etc etc.

faact is this season Mata has done nothing and has barely played. 40 mil fr a cup tied player who is only going to play 15 games for you this season maximum as you are out the fa cuo. league cup and he is cup tied for CL. Chelsea are selling to you because you are paying 20 million more than what they value him at.

Perhaps United are thinking further ahead than the rest of the season and want to get him before the summer opens up for all manner of bids to pour in from others pushing the price higher.

I find it baffling that people think Mata is only worth £20 million, he may not have been used by Chelsea this year but for the two years before that he was the star player not just of Chelsea but one of the Premier League's best players. £37 million is about right for the player who is still quite young, a world class footballer and being sold to a rival. Just because Chelsea don't use him doesn't take away what an excellent player he is.

For a deal done in January, taking the best player from one of their rivals for £37 million is a brilliant deal in the current market. Whether or not Mata won't have a real impact until next year.

[Duty281]

Yes because we need Ibrahimovic when we have Rooney and Van Persie. If we sign Mata it disproves all the BS you've been spewing everywhere about champions league, if Ozil is worth £42mil then Mata isn't far off that.

What BS am I speout CL that you signing Mata would disprove? last time I checked you are in the CL......

Last time I checked we're 7th in the table and Mata would be cup tied, like i've said all along money talks the champions league does not.

That and maybe the fact that the lure of Manchester United still does wonders.

[Hammersmith harrier]

What are some people on thinking Chelsea would sell him for £18mil to Athletico, if they could they'd buy him right now if that's all he cost but the reality is they cannot compete with us in the transfer market.

To put it into context Athelic Bilbao were not willing to sell Herrera for a penny less than his release clause, a club further down the pecking order than Chelsea, in todays world Mata is worth every penny of that £37mil if the reports are true.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Please do block me CS you talk complete and utter Poopie non-stop, you are utterly clueless and I have no interest in reading any more of your BS.

[mystiroakey]

who would you prefer

1. Fellani 27m
2. G bale. 80m
3. Neymar 55m
4. ozil 42m
5. Mata 37m
6. Fernandinho 35m
7.Rodriguez 40m

[Hammersmith harrier]

For that amount of money taking into account proven track record it would have to be either Ozil or Mata, i've said for a long time that he's Chelsea's best player and I would not be playing Willian or Oscar in his place.

[mystiroakey]

I agree

[Duty281]

From that list.....Mata.

Ozil's been a bit quiet recently, so would come second.

[mystiroakey]

well basically that list tells me thats the price!

Those are (i think) the top 7 transfers since the summer- all midfielder's!

[Champagne_Socialist]

From that list.....Mata.

Ozil's been a bit quiet recently, so would come second.

but mata has done nothing recently......

[socal1976]

who would you prefer

1. Fellani 27m
2. G bale. 80m
3. Neymar 55m
4. ozil 42m
5. Mata 37m
6. Fernandinho 35m
7.Rodriguez 40m

Neymar is the best buy of the bunch for the price tag but he is so slight that I doubt that he could put up with the physical pounding of the premier league. Ozil and Mata second and third in that order. Great buy by United although as this cup tie showed there problems extend beyond what one exciting signing will deliver. People say that Ozil energized Arsenal but lets remember the core of Arsenal has shown their metal at the start of the season and going back to the end of last year. Ozil joined a team with a young core improving and going at an upward trajectory. As this league cup tie shows the opposite is true for United they need to retool. But this is a great signing and as Arsenal fan gives me more reason to hate that c-nt Mourinho. I hope ever time Mata plays him he sticks a goal right up his tight little portuguese arse. Not a good day for United's rivals for CL. Hopefully this convinces Wenger of the need to add some quality in the midseason window although I am not hopeful.

[socal1976]

But in relation to the league cup match, what was that? Unbelievable to see United go out at home, when they had the lead to a team tied for last in the league. Great performance from Sunderland in extra time and second half they fought really hard and at times United struggled to cope with their commitment in the challenge. De Gea in my mind is not a world class keeper. Spain would make a mistake making him their starting keeper of either Casillas and Valdes. He is a good keeper and may be world class one day, but in general he really is not at that level right now.

[Guest]

Moyes showing consistency and continuing his run of never having won a tournament cup. I am surprised that Chelsea would let Mata go to Man Utd.

[mystiroakey]

who would you prefer

1. Fellani 27m
2. G bale. 80m
3. Neymar 55m
4. ozil 42m
5. Mata 37m
6. Fernandinho 35m
7.Rodriguez 40m

Neymar is the best buy of the bunch for the price tag but he is so slight that I doubt that he could put up with the physical pounding of the premier league. Ozil and Mata second and third in that order.  Great buy by United although as this cup tie showed there problems extend beyond what one exciting signing will deliver. People say that Ozil energized Arsenal but lets remember the core of Arsenal has shown their metal at the start of the season and going back to the end of last year. Ozil joined a team with a young core improving and going at an upward trajectory. As this league cup tie shows the opposite is true for United they need to retool. But this is a great signing and as Arsenal fan gives me more reason to hate that c-nt Mourinho. I hope ever time Mata plays him he sticks a goal right up his tight little portuguese arse. Not a good day for United's rivals for CL. Hopefully this convinces Wenger of the need to add some quality in the midseason window although I am not hopeful.

Neymar is actually reported to being 80m but barca have been lieing all along.they are being investigated by the tax authorities

[socal1976]

who would you prefer

1. Fellani 27m
2. G bale. 80m
3. Neymar 55m
4. ozil 42m
5. Mata 37m
6. Fernandinho 35m
7.Rodriguez 40m

Neymar is the best buy of the bunch for the price tag but he is so slight that I doubt that he could put up with the physical pounding of the premier league. Ozil and Mata second and third in that order.  Great buy by United although as this cup tie showed there problems extend beyond what one exciting signing will deliver. People say that Ozil energized Arsenal but lets remember the core of Arsenal has shown their metal at the start of the season and going back to the end of last year. Ozil joined a team with a young core improving and going at an upward trajectory. As this league cup tie shows the opposite is true for United they need to retool. But this is a great signing and as Arsenal fan gives me more reason to hate that c-nt Mourinho. I hope ever time Mata plays him he sticks a goal right up his tight little portuguese arse. Not a good day for United's rivals for CL. Hopefully this convinces Wenger of the need to add some quality in the midseason window although I am not hopeful.

Neymar is actually reported to being 80m but barca have been lieing all along.they are being investigated by the tax authorities

He is the best bargain at 80million to. Bale is an incredible player but Neymar is 21 and has the body of a 14 year old. In terms of close control, first touch, and technical genius he is a level a significant level above Bale. As long as he stays healthy he should win world player of the year at some point. There is a reason Barca did everything possible to sign him.

[Duty281]

From that list.....Mata.

Ozil's been a bit quiet recently, so would come second.

but mata has done nothing recently......

Difference being that Mata hasn't had the chance.

[Mad for Chelsea]

C_S, with all due respect you're talking a fair amount of rubbish. Mata at 37 million isn't really that high at all (same price as Ozil, roughly, and for me they're about the same quality). I actually think it's a decent deal for both parties: United add some much needed quality to their squad, while Chelsea get some good cash for a player who wasn't part of their plans anyway.

[Champagne_Socialist]

C_S, with all due respect you're talking a fair amount of rubbish. Mata at 37 million isn't really that high at all (same price as Ozil, roughly, and for me they're about the same quality). I actually think it's a decent deal for both parties: United add some much needed quality to their squad, while Chelsea get some good cash for a player who wasn't part of their plans anyway.

I'm just saying Chelsea are only selling to united because united are overpaying. Chelsea would have been looking fo about 18-20 mil if they sold him in the summer.

I'm not saying he isn't a great player, I am saying that due to him not playing for the last 6 months and him not playing at all for the last month his value should have decreased not increased....

[Champagne_Socialist]

From that list.....Mata.

Ozil's been a bit quiet recently, so would come second.

but mata has done nothing recently......

Difference being that Mata hasn't had the chance.

mata is a great player but you can't put him above Ozil becuse Ozil has been 'a bit quiet recently' when Mata haas done nothing for the past 6 months...

[compelling and rich]

From that list.....Mata.

Ozil's been a bit quiet recently, so would come second.

but mata has done nothing recently......

Difference being that Mata hasn't had the chance.

mata is a great player but you can't put him above Ozil becuse Ozil has been 'a bit quiet recently' when Mata haas done nothing for the past 6 months...

mata has done nothing because he's been benched you cant criticize him for that it was mourinho's descion, ozil hasnt done much playing week in week out. mata when played has proven himself to be one of the best players in the prem

12/13- 21 goals 29 assists
11/12- 16 goals 22 assists

im sorry but you cant argue with stats like that! especially considering he's done it in the hardest league

[mystiroakey]

"12/13- 21 goals 29 assists
11/12- 16 goals 22 assists"

unbelievable stats. Didn't realise they were that good

[Hammersmith harrier]

No chance in hell do Chelsea sell him for less than they bought him for, in the current climate he's worth every penny of that £37mil. Unless of course you think he's valued roughly the same as De Bruyne?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

CS you're genuinely off your rocker

[Duty281]

From that list.....Mata.

Ozil's been a bit quiet recently, so would come second.

but mata has done nothing recently......

Difference being that Mata hasn't had the chance.

mata is a great player but you can't put him above Ozil becuse Ozil has been 'a bit quiet recently' when Mata haas done nothing for the past 6 months...

During the 2012/13 season, Mata had more goals and assists than Mesut Ozil. Couple that with the fact he plays in a harder league and well....I'd take Mata all day long over Ozil.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/juan-mata/leistungsdaten/spieler_44068_2012.html
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/mesut-oezil/leistungsdaten/spieler_35664_2012.html

Quite why Mourinho doesn't like Mata, I have no idea, but right now it's United's gain.

[Champagne_Socialist]

From that list.....Mata.

Ozil's been a bit quiet recently, so would come second.

but mata has done nothing recently......

Difference being that Mata hasn't had the chance.

mata is a great player but you can't put him above Ozil becuse Ozil has been 'a bit quiet recently' when Mata haas done nothing for the past 6 months...

mata has done nothing because he's been benched you cant criticize him for that it was mourinho's descion, ozil hasnt done much playing week in week out. mata when played has proven himself to be one of the best players in the prem

12/13- 21 goals 29 assists
11/12- 16 goals 22 assists

im sorry but you cant argue with stats like that! especially considering he's done it in the hardest league

Duty said Mata was above ozil because ozil has been a bit quiet recently, so i was responding to that by saying mata has done nothing recently.

if man u buy torres are we going to start looking at his stats from 09/10 etc to argue that he is world class?

[mystiroakey]

yep lets stop nitpicking at ways of saying things shall we. its doing my nut in and i am guilty.

"No but you said it that way. blah blah.."


Everyone just agree Zaha is God, Moyes is rubbish and Mata is an ok Buy.

[compelling and rich]

From that list.....Mata.

Ozil's been a bit quiet recently, so would come second.

but mata has done nothing recently......

Difference being that Mata hasn't had the chance.

mata is a great player but you can't put him above Ozil becuse Ozil has been 'a bit quiet recently' when Mata haas done nothing for the past 6 months...

mata has done nothing because he's been benched you cant criticize him for that it was mourinho's descion, ozil hasnt done much playing week in week out. mata when played has proven himself to be one of the best players in the prem

12/13- 21 goals 29 assists
11/12- 16 goals 22 assists

im sorry but you cant argue with stats like that! especially considering he's done it in the hardest league

Duty said Mata was above ozil because ozil has been a bit quiet recently, so i was responding to that by saying mata has done nothing recently.

if man u buy torres are we going to start looking at his stats from 09/10 etc to argue that he is world class?

dont be stupid im comparing stats when he last had a proper run in the team. i suppose rvp is rubbish now as well because he hasn't scored recently!! you cant criticize people for not doing anything when they haven't been playing!

[compelling and rich]

"12/13- 21 goals 29 assists
11/12- 16 goals 22 assists"

unbelievable stats. Didn't realise they were that good

should add that this was all competitions, but still amazing stats!

[Champagne_Socialist]

From that list.....Mata.

Ozil's been a bit quiet recently, so would come second.

but mata has done nothing recently......

Difference being that Mata hasn't had the chance.

mata is a great player but you can't put him above Ozil becuse Ozil has been 'a bit quiet recently' when Mata haas done nothing for the past 6 months...

mata has done nothing because he's been benched you cant criticize him for that it was mourinho's descion, ozil hasnt done much playing week in week out. mata when played has proven himself to be one of the best players in the prem

12/13- 21 goals 29 assists
11/12- 16 goals 22 assists

im sorry but you cant argue with stats like that! especially considering he's done it in the hardest league

Duty said Mata was above ozil because ozil has been a bit quiet recently, so i was responding to that by saying mata has done nothing recently.

if man u buy torres are we going to start looking at his stats from 09/10 etc to argue that he is world class?

dont be stupid im comparing stats when he last had a proper run in the team. i suppose rvp is rubbish now as well because he hasn't scored recently!! you cant criticize people for not doing anything when they haven't been playing!

So if he stayed at chelsea for another 3 years and never made an appearance in 3 years would you still bring up stats from 3 years ago when he has 'a proper run in the team'?

[compelling and rich]

well you wouldnt be comparing stats if you used none-existent stats when he wasnt playing

anyway it doesnt matter, he's only missed half a season so the stats i was comparing are totally relevant

[Hammersmith harrier]

We should just be thankful we have Wayne Rooney then C and R, the true assist king in european football and to think in a failing side he's outperformed Ozil. Can only mean one thing to me and it's that Ozil is useless, lets not to take into account his ability and proven track record.

[socal1976]

I think this is a good move strategically for both clubs. A lot depends on how Mata performs in the future in this United team. They do now have more than just RVP and Rooney in terms of players that could change a game.

[Champagne_Socialist]

I think this is a good move strategically for both clubs. A lot depends on how Mata performs in the future in this United team. They do now have more than just RVP and Rooney in terms of players that could change a game.

question is will rooney and van persie be there next season? rooney seems destined to leave even if man u finish 5th and i think van persie will leave if man u dont get CL.

[compelling and rich]

cant see massive list of suitors who will be willing to pay rvp the same as us after a massively injury hit season

[mystiroakey]

Van Persie is on a long contract - he wont be able to just leave.

and with mata there- he will feel a lot better. Strikers love play makers

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Yeah I can't see RVP leaving tbh

Rooney maybe, would say 50/50

[Crimey]

I think Real Madrid will definitely be sniffing around RVP if United don't get Champions League and they very rarely don't get their man.

My hope is that United don't get Champions League, Liverpool do, Madrid go for RVP and get him so Suarez stays put.

[compelling and rich]

nice try crimey but suarez is the much more suitable option for madrid, he's much younger, a lot fitter and currently in better form.

weve got rvp tied up in a contract so he wouldnt be cheap and at nearly 31 cant see him being that attractive for that kind of money, of course suarez wouldnt be cheap but out of the two i would backs suarez to be able to force himself out of yours

[Crimey]

nice try crimey but suarez is the much more suitable option for madrid, he's much younger, a lot fitter and currently in better form.

weve got rvp tied up in a contract so he wouldnt be cheap and at nearly 31 cant see him being that attractive for that kind of money, of course suarez wouldnt be cheap but out of the two i would backs suarez to be able to force himself out of yours

Yeah I get that, but it's a hope and I do think if United aren't in the Champions League RVP will want to leave, he moved to United to win trophies from Arsenal, and now Arsenal are in a better position, I'd think he'd be furious and it his age will be desperate to get out to a club with guaranteed success, he's not interested in dragging United back into contention, that's why he left Arsenal in the first place!

I think he'd come at half maybe even a third of the price of Suarez as well as probably being more eager to move and a very marketable player. 31 is fairly old, but RVP has essentially been a late bloomer and you'd expect will still be a top level forward for at least a few more years.

[mystiroakey]

Crimey Madrid are looking at Rooney over RVP. I cant see them going for both and if they did there is no way United would bend over and take it

[GSC]

Price isn an object for RM, they'd be after Suarez a lot more than RVP (and my gut says Suarez will end up there sooner or later)

[The Fourth Lion]

For that amount of money taking into account proven track record it would have to be either Ozil or Mata, i've said for a long time that he's Chelsea's best player and I would not be playing Willian or Oscar in his place.

Which could be why Jose Maurinho is manager of Chelsea and none of us are.

To be honest, I have no idea whether Mata is worth the money, but for sure, Chelsea are making a hefty profit over what they paid for him and they had the use of his services in their Champions League and Europa League winning teams.   Nice business if you can get it.

Perhaps he just doesn't fit in Maurinho's plans and if that is the case, then it makes sense to ship him on to anyone who will pay the asking price, whether that club is a league opponent or not.

On the other side of the coin, with this season as good as a dead rubber for Manchester United (Champions League qualification notwithstanding), then it makes sense for Moyse to spend some of this season's transfer budget on a player with a proven track record, who is in his prime years as a player.

Personally, I think football has gone mad when that amount of money changes hands for any player, but <heavy sigh> that's how things are.

There is no doubt that Mata is a good player and if he fits in at Old Trafford and does the job the manager wants him to do, then all good for United.  If not............

Time will tell.

[The Fourth Lion]

I think Real Madrid will definitely be sniffing around RVP if United don't get Champions League and they very rarely don't get their man.

My hope is that United don't get Champions League, Liverpool do, Madrid go for RVP and get him so Suarez stays put.

There used to be a saying in football:   "You don't say no to Manchester United."  

Alan Shearer notwithstanding, that held pretty true during the Ferguson years.  United usually got their man, and mostly, they left when Sralex said it was time to go. 

That ethos is likely to be put to the test in the next couple of years.   Will the name, history and reputation of the club be enough any longer..?     I don't know.    

But as a neutral, it's going to be interesting to watch.

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