The Tigers v Ulster 'friendly' aka 'get your retaliation in first' Sat 31 Aug

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15 Niall Morris
14 Scott Hamilton
13 Vereniki Goneva
12 Anthony Allen
11 Adam Thompstone
10 Toby Flood (c)
9 David Melé
1 Logovi'i Mulipola
2 Tom Youngs
3 Dan Cole
4 Louis Deacon
5 Geoff Parling
6 Tom Croft
7 Julian Salvi
8 Jordan Crane

Replacements from
Neil Briggs
George Chuter
Boris Stankovich
Jérôme Schuster
Fraser Balmain
Tom Bristow
Harry Wells
Tom Price
Sebastian de Chaves
Michael Noone
Jamie Gibson
Thomas Waldrom
Scott Steele
George Tresidder
Ryan Lamb
Owen Williams
Dan Bowden
George Catchpole
Henry Purdy
Perry Humphreys

http://www.leicestertigers.com/news/17589.php#.UiG0oT-oEpU

Ulster XV and replacements to face Leicester Tigers, Pre-Season Friendly, Welford Road, Saturday 31st August (kick off 15:00);

(15-9): J Payne, A Trimble, L Marshall, C Farrell, D McIlwaine, J McKinney, P Marshall; (1-8): T Court, R Herring, R Lutton, J Muller (Captain), D Tuohy, R Diack, C Henry, R Wilson; Replacements: C Black, N Annett, D Fitzpatrick, A O’Connor, C Joyce, L Stevenson, M McComish, S Doyle, I Porter, P Jackson, M Allen, R Andrew.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/11694.php

This is a warm-up for serious business later in the season starting in October and I hope that both sides pit plenty of top-squadders against each other.

The front rows under the new Laws should be interesting.
If the ref applies them...

Let's be honest. Everyone knows that the Tigers seek out pre-season games against the provinces as they know they won't be able to field their best players, and they are more likely to win. Gees up their fans nicely, having beaten Ulster's seconds (or whoever).

No really, Portnoy - the Tigers' brains trust knew exactly the position Ulster would be in at this stage, so blame them for willingly and knowingly inviting a team they knew would have to be shorn of its stars. Tell them you're unhappy rather than taking pot shots at Ulster for a situation they have no control over.

Apologies for lousy typing - on a Phone with a broken screen!

Good luck to both teams.

Don Alfonso wrote:Apologies for lousy typing - on a Phone with a broken screen!

Good luck to both teams.

Perfect typing, Don.

try this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/bbc_radio_leicester

0-0 after about 5mins

Toby Flood off injured with neck brace?  
0-0 15mins

Tuohy sin-binned for the challenge that saw Flood leave the pitch on a stretcher in a neck brace

0-3 McKinney.

Interestingly later Marshall gets pinnged for not straight feed.

Ryan Lamb (replacement FH) now makes it 3-3.

Leicester try initiated by Mele 90 m out scored by Morris. Lamb converts from under the posts. 10-3

Mele try in corner no con 15-3

Pen 18-3 HT

Ouch lets hope the neck brace is just a precaution.

LondonTiger wrote:Tuohy sin-binned for the challenge that saw Flood leave the pitch on a stretcher in a neck brace

That doesn't sound good at all, hope Flood is ok. I'm guessing it was a high tackle?

News from Auntie: Head high tackle and AF knocked out "completely". The injury delay was about 10-15 mins.

Tuohy in trouble?

Allen scores 23-3 on left outside Lamb con 25-3

FT 30-10.

Not great from a fairly strong ulster side against what should have been a disjointed Leicester team with subs coming on continually.

Commentator on Radio Leicester said our back 3 made a lot of good breaks 3 of which ended in forward passes in the Tigers 22 any and all of which could have been trys. Hopefully that gets the rustiness out of the system for the start of the season next week.

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Injured-Tigers-skipper-Flood-leaves-ground/story-19735374-detail/story.html

not looking good for flood.

Blimey. I hope that there's some youtube footage of the incident soon.

On the Tigers site there's a tweet "On Toby Flood, Paul Burke says he was taken to hospital where he is conscious and going through standard medical checks"

Good job Cockrell was banned from this game! Lol

nathan wrote:Good job Cockrell was banned from this game! Lol

I agree, nathan, LRI doesn't have enough beds.

Paul burke said he's conscious again and going through standard medial checks.

Tigers reporter gave Ryan lamb man of the match, didn't see that one coming!

https://twitter.com/tobyflood/status/373851556472713216/photo/1

Horrible for the guy, he was knocked unconscious in his last match as well - the Aviva final in May. Hope he isn't out for long and really hope he isn't out for good with two serious concussions in the space of 3 months and 2 matches.

That'd make a lovely Christmas card to flop onto Tuohy's doormat just before the HEC home tie, LT.

All the best Floody

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Notch wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:It might have been more worthwhile playing a Tigers' possibles v probables match - or one against another Jeff side or a proper LV match.

You really are a deeply sad, unpleasant man.

Interesting comment, Notch. Just because I want the best for my club and its supporters (not to mention my league and my country and rugby in general) , I'm "a deeply sad, unpleasant man.". 

Ulster name the strongest possible side available to them and you're still taking potshots at the club and the fans for some perceived slight. You're a piece of work. I look forward to welcoming Tigers and their fans to Ravenhill as in person I've found them a pleasant and good-natured lot win or lose. But people like yourself make using forums like these an unnecessarily unpleasant experience.

In other news, sounds like a good hit out for our lads. We were right in it before conceding 15 points before half-time. That was the game right there. The Flood injury puts the importance of this game into perspective; absolutely no chance we'd want to swap places with Leicester. Hopefully he recovers sooner rather than later and is able to play a full part in our Heineken Cup games. I wish him all the best, and I'm sure all of us Ulster fans will join me in saying that.

Notch wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Notch wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:It might have been more worthwhile playing a Tigers' possibles v probables match - or one against another Jeff side or a proper LV match.

You really are a deeply sad, unpleasant man.

Interesting comment, Notch. Just because I want the best for my club and its supporters (not to mention my league and my country and rugby in general) , I'm "a deeply sad, unpleasant man.". 

Ulster name the strongest possible side available to them and you're still taking potshots at the club and the fans for some perceived slight. You're a piece of work. I look forward to welcoming Tigers and their fans to Ravenhill as in person I've found them a pleasant and good-natured lot win or lose. But people like yourself make using forums like these an unnecessarily unpleasant experience.

It takes two to tango. People taking offence and getting on their high horse over nothing are half the problem, as are people responding with personal insults.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Notch wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Notch wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:It might have been more worthwhile playing a Tigers' possibles v probables match - or one against another Jeff side or a proper LV match.

You really are a deeply sad, unpleasant man.

Interesting comment, Notch. Just because I want the best for my club and its supporters (not to mention my league and my country and rugby in general) , I'm "a deeply sad, unpleasant man.". 

Ulster name the strongest possible side available to them and you're still taking potshots at the club and the fans for some perceived slight. You're a piece of work. I look forward to welcoming Tigers and their fans to Ravenhill as in person I've found them a pleasant and good-natured lot win or lose. But people like yourself make using forums like these an unnecessarily unpleasant experience.

It takes two to tango. People taking offence and getting on their high horse over nothing are half the problem, as are people responding with personal insults.

I might agree, if it wasn't for Portnoy's history of constant shots at Irish rugby wherever possible. Under the name greytiger he was a very thinly veiled wum and wherever Irish rugby is concerned you can be sure he is an incredibly bitter and resentful poster.

Really? He doesn't bother me in the slightest. You can take the pi$$ out of him and he'll have a laugh. Wuming in the way he does may be a little sad, but you know, if people go round taking that sh1t seriously then that is also sad.

Best courses of action with deliberate wind ups I find is to either ignore them (which is the opposite of what they want) or respond with humour/take the pi$$ out of them.

Personal insults without a trace of humour are not the way to go.

Same for guys who come up to you in pubs looking for a fight.

I wish I could have been there, hate to leave my seats empty


Sounds like it was a very good, and very useful runout for most of the players (Tobias excepted of course - and even there based on his fragility and Tuohy's height I suspect the challenge was more one of clumsiness).

A little worried that we have not seen Matty Tait in pre-season and the lack of any noise about Miles Benjamin's fitness. Looking forward to next Sunday.

Dan Tuhoy rocks in at a massive 4 inches taller than Flood. Probably not purely clumsy. Probably went in for a big hit and was off balance a bit as Flood stepped and swung an arm.

Doubt they'll be a citing. Tigers don't cite and It's a preseason game.

Seems to be leading with the arm. Possibly deliberate. Clumsy at least.

The photo doesnt tell the full story. This is after the contact. Flood is on his way down.

Question: Can you lead with the arm if the contact is against the chest? (Not saying that it was btw)

clivemcl wrote:The photo doesnt tell the full story. This is after the contact. Flood is on his way down.

Question: Can you lead with the arm if the contact is against the chest? (Not saying that it was btw)

Can you lead with the arm if it is the elbow of the ball carrying arm that makes contact? (completely different case, but something I have noticed last season quite a lot, including from Manu).

Contact was probably with the eye region, as Flood has a cut above the eye. With Tuohy being yellow carded, and that picture, it looks as though ref had a good view of the incident. Feels like the right sanction was applied and Tobias is just unlucky. We mustn't forget that it is a contact sport after all, and sometimes lower level infringements (and sometimes completely legal challenges) can have dire impact.


Hopefully flood will be ok, and we all move on.

This isn't what I was expecting at all.  I thought Flood had the ball and Tuohy collared him from what I heard yesterday.  From the above pic, obviously Tuohy was the carrier has forearmed Flood in the head in the process of trying to bash him out of the tackle.  I remember Yannick Jauzion forearm smashing Gordon D'Arcy in the face like this a few years back in the 6N and no actions was taken either on the pitch or by the citing commissioner afterwards.  I don't think Tuohy has tried to hurt Flood, just been a bit over zealous in dealing with Flood's attempt at a tackle....if thats the case a yellow is probably the right call.  But then I haven't seen any footage yet, just the above pic.

7 Mode of Play
7.1 Playing a match

A ball carrier may hand-off an opponent.

The laws state what it says on the tin. You are allowed to fend off a tackler with the palm of the hand and the arm must be straight at the point of contact (i.e. no punching action).

Which is why Tuohy was penalised and got a YC, which as I said earlier feels right to me.



PS Sam, when talking about height I had, somehow mistaken Tuohy for Toner. not sure how, I guess it is my age and declining faculties. My memory is not what it was.




PS Sam, when talking about height I had somehow mistaken Tuohy for Toner. not sure how, I must have been having a senior moment. Dodgy memory and all that.

Dan Tuohy has form at this, i was going to post this yesterday... and then when i saw that photo it looks like a carbon copy!



I thought he should have penalised for the swinging elbow to the face - if he had done this in defence it would have been possibly red (or assault). The Canadian fella wasn't too healthy afterwards. Tuohy had better watch it or he'll get a reputation

http://ballsdot.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/dantouhy.gif

toml wrote:Dan Tuohy has form at this, i was going to post this yesterday... and then when i saw that photo it looks like a carbon copy!



I thought he should have penalised for the swinging elbow to the face - if he had done this in defence it would have been possibly red (or assault). The Canadian fella wasn't too healthy afterwards. Tuohy had better watch it or he'll get a reputation

Didn't see the incident yesterday, but the above one looks like he has a timing issue rather than anything malicious. Sort of swinging his arm out before he has made contact.

maverickmak wrote:

Seems to be leading with the arm. Possibly deliberate. Clumsy at least.

Haha that shirt is hilarious, are they away to play some charity Fourballs now?

toml wrote:

maverickmak wrote:

Seems to be leading with the arm. Possibly deliberate. Clumsy at least.

Haha that shirt is hilarious, are they away to play some charity Fourballs now?

its the new away strip, still undecided on if i like it or not. Certainly not the worst ive ever seen!

As I suspected. This is a technical problem that has crept in Dan Tuohys game that comes from a tendency to use his forearm to fend off tacklers- not a "punching motion". It's something that refs don't pick up on very often at all any time I've seen it employed (by any player) but in a situation like this he can get penalised for using the forearm instead of hand and he should cut it out.

It is more dangerous than a hand off and he could open himself up to disciplinary repercussions and ii increases the chances of an injury. That said, if it is what I think it is its not a deliberate attempt to injure another player or strike another player so I can't see a citing coming out of it- thats without seeing the incident so if anyone does know better, say. If it's what I've seen Tuohy do before in games he can have little cause to complain over a yellow card given the unfortunate injury suffered by Flood.

I spoke to my brother who was at the game. He says that the crowd reaction was very muted after the incident and that many were unclear anything untoward had happened. Most it appears were struggling from his spec to identify that it was Flood was 'down'.

There were no pockets of fans near the incident baying outrage apparently.
He reckons that after-match conversations were directed at clumsiness rather than malicious intent.

Until any video footage emerges to the contrary, I'd suggest it's left at that despite any frozen-in-time snapshots of a dynamic event which may most likely to lead to spurious and misguided conclusions.

A lot of power players use that method of protecting the ball by hugging it to their chest and then fending with their elbow. I always thought that as long as they don't actually stick their elbow out at the tackler it was alright.

Remember a couple of seasons back Banahan KO'd a Scottish flanker with exactly the same technique and nothing happened to him. Likewise big guys in SuperRugby do it all the time.

EDIT-Actually using my eyes for a second and looking at the photo, he's using the opposite arm to the one holding the ball which is a little naughty.

yappysnap wrote:A lot of power players use that method of protecting the ball by hugging it to their chest and then fending with their elbow. I always thought that as long as they don't actually stick their elbow out at the tackler it was alright.

Remember a couple of seasons back Banahan KO'd a Scottish flanker with exactly the same technique and nothing happened to him. Likewise big guys in SuperRugby do it all the time.

As I said earlier, Manu does what you describe here. I am not comfortable with it personally.



any way phoney war of friendlies is over - and soon we have the real start of the season

Has there been any further word on Flood?

MrsP wrote:Has there been any further word on Flood?

Nothing of substance that I've heard of MrsP but the Tigers site http://www.leicestertigers.com/news/17598.php#.UiRgJz-oEpU sort of vaguely hints at nothing too concerning.

I had heard that Flood was tweeting after the incident on Saturday, and also that he was released from hospital after a couple of hours, but nothing verified. Hopefully he will recover quickly from any concussion.
I doubt it was intentional, but Tuohy needs to sort out why it's happening, and try to adjust his game accordingly.

LondonTiger wrote:I wish I could have been there, hate to leave my seats empty

One seat per cheek?