Why I want Groves to win.

There are a few reasons.

1) I don't think Froch has anywhere left to go in his career. He won't imo get that rematch with Ward. Not unless he travels to the US and in all honesty I would not look forward to seeing a repeat of their last outing. Froch has had an amazing career thus far but I think its the end of the road for him. Kessler 3? as DAVE667 said yesterday Kessler is shot and that fight would most prob not go the distance with Froch the victor.

Froch is chasing some sort of elite status but he can only get that by beating Ward which I doubt so I welcome the new blood in Groves stepping in and going forward with the prospect of facing Degale straight after in a title fight. I think these two will end up fighting again and maybe there is room for a trilogy I certainly hope so because we have not had one in Britian for a while. Their first fight was quite big for 2 beginners so I expect the interest to be massive if there is a title thrown into the mix.




Then again Froch might surprise me.

In some sense Groves would make for the more intriguing winner. As you mention should he come out with the W in November then we have 'new blood' to get behind and support and he will have plenty of places to go.

Yet I do think Carl still has 12-18 months of peak career left so to seem him lose against an upstart would I believe tarnish his legacy some what. I also think he does have options should he win. Obviously to be considered the best Super Middleweight he will need to overcome Ward; the likelihood that the fight happens is small...the likelihood even smaller.

Yet does he have to have that fight to secure Elite status? I would argue he already has earned that. The simple fact is that he has fought more or less every single fighter ranked inside the Top 10..even Top 5...in his division in the last 5 years. That is something that not many people can say in modern day boxing...the fact he has beaten them all but one speaks volumes. I couldn't name another fighter who has gone through his division the way he has done (except Ward of course) and whilst the Super 6 platform certainly made it easier to do, he still stepped up and took part.

If you look at his options should he win then as you say, on the face of it they look pretty small. However their are still fights to be made; DeGale for a start...though he doesn't deserve it (more on that in a moment)...Ward, the obvious one. Light Heavyweight perhaps...Cloud/Stevenson/Hopkins/Kovalev ....even Middleweight...Golovokin/Martinez/Cesar Chavez ...all 3 cold potentially step up, especially the last one.

To be honest I am a fan of both but if I was looking at it from a purely business point of view and the future of both fighters I would have to say Froch to win would be the outcome I would want.

I think you can make Super Fights with him that little bit easier and my worry with Groves winning would be that it immediately propels him onto the elite scene and makes it difficult for him not to go in with the very best i.e. Ward who I just don't think he will be ready for....though of course should he beat Froch then you could argue he is.

Oh and last point; I do not want to see DeGale anywhere near either of these fighters for some time yet. The guy is a disrespectful little scrotum who spews venom at any British fighter in and around his weight. He showed no respect to George in the build up to their first fight...and none after he came a cropper. He has on numerous occasions put down Froch's achievements...that's all well and good if you have done something in the pro-ranks yourself. But when your fighting in the Blue something or other shopping centre in front of 'public' who have been given free tickets...keep your trap shut and get on with actually doing something with your career.

He doesn't deserve the fight as a boxer...and he is even further away from deserving one as a person.

After watching a few of Groves' interviews recently I have really taken to him and would love to see him spring the upset but I wouldn't bet on him doing it mind, hope I'm wrong.

Agree with everything you've said Owen regarding DeGale. Just comes across as a total prat. That whole "ugly kid" business with Groves was just embarrassing.

I'm not a massive Froch fan but props where they are due. He's had a helluva career.

I would argue Degale deserves the shot before Groves. He is european champion and fought better opposition.

Personally, I think this fight is just that little bit too soon for Groves. I'd have liked to see him have two more top 10 fights.

Lets be honest, who thinks this will be anything other than a good, hard fought contest? These lads both come to fight and who ever loses will not have problems getting options.

Owen is right. I not only think a Froch win is more likely, but I think it will be a better "business" option as it will affect the over all value least. Froch would hopefully get a Ward rematch in the UK and Groves stock won't have been affected one bit. An up and coming fighter losing, with a good performance, to the generally accepted 2nd best in the division is hardly going to trash his stock. Only enhance it. He has inexperience as an excuse and could line up a rematch later. In the mean time he will be able to fight some other top 10 fighters all the better for the experience.

I like both fighters a lot. I think Froch will win but I think Groves has the talent and skill set to prove me wrong.

The more I see Degale, the less impressed I am of him. He seems to lack the 6th sense that all great boxers have. When to press, when not to, when to finish. He has laboured to way too many distance wins. He's all the talent but I think just lacks that X factor. Plus he's a bit of a tool.

The problem Groves has is he has never fought anyone near the standard of Froch, would have been better fighting a couple of world class fighters and gaining the experience he needs to step up.
Don't see Groves keeping Froch away for 12 rounds,Froch will hunt him down and we don't know how Groves will react when Froch catches him clean can he take it or not.

Not seen much in Groves apart from good movement and a ko punch. Can he go the distance? and what will he do if he gasses and looses his legs in the championship rounds?

I know Froch has the conditioning to go a grueling 12 round distance but Groves I am not too sure.

Btw I think people are being a little unfair to Degale on here. Ok he is a brash loud mouth but thats nothing new in boxing. I also think both Froch and Hearns camps are edging Degale out of the picture somewhat. They won't even talk about him as a possible contender and I fear should Groves win they will do all they can to avoid Degale sort of like how Hatton shunned Witter.

How can he avoid Degale....when he has already faced and beaten him. I'm sorry but DeGale for is the epitome of an Olympic hype machine for me.

He was flocked as the next best thing since sliced bread since his Olympic success, and ok he is not the first but his career has been a downward trajectory since then! He has done nothing but go backward in the pro-game.

The problem is that he bought into his own hype and slagged everyone off before he had even done anything. Yes all boxers do it; but those who do at least tend to have done something themselves, this guy hasn't whilst he has been pro.

His trash talk in the build up to the Groves fight was awful and just bordering on stupid. He talked non stop about how he was going to smash ugly boys face in and beat him convincingly...then come fight night he was found out by a guy 'who couldn't box and didn't have the skills to beat him'. The early celebration and then realisation it wasn't him who had won was one of the most beautiful moments I have witnessed in the ring.

He may very well be the European champion, however he has looked nothing but ordinary for quite some time now. He makes the same mistakes over and over again; for example allowing himself to be backed up onto the ropes and outfought on the inside; for someone who is supposed to be exceptionally talented I honestly think he lacks some of the most basic fundamentals in the game.

The fact is Groves won their encounter, has been British and Commonwealth Champion. Has fought stateside, Germany and beaten a gate keeper in the division in Johnson...and perhaps most importantly has looked like he is improving fight upon fight.

It's a strange one because usually people like to see the 'bad/arrogant guy' get it handed to them, but the manner in which DeGale portrays himself people just aren't fussed either way.

For me this is a case of the nicer guy getting the shot and in my opinion it's well deserved. I would applaud Groves if he were to win, and if I were him I would then proceed to stick to fingers up to DeGale and say

'Whose laughing now Chunky, the Ugly Ginger is a World Champion, fighting on the big stage and you my arrogant tool of a man will not be getting a shot anytime soon....but hey enjoy being the headline act down at my local shopping center next weekend Mr Olympic!!'

For me Froch gets elite status. Just because there is one special talent above him doesn't eradicate his achievements. Groves probably would be the more intriguing winner. But, he'll face the same problem that Froch did: he won't be able to beat Ward.

I'm just happy to see two top contenders going at at - and two UK guys at that. You can always rely on Froch to fight top ranked guys, and kudos to Groves for taking what is a tough, tough challenge - but by no means an impossible one for him.

It's an intriguing fight, and I'd be happy with either of them winning.

owen10ozzy wrote:His trash talk in the build up to the Groves fight was awful and just bordering on stupid.

I know. The 'ugly kid' stuff was particularly infantile. Degale looked monumentally stupid by talking about all or nothing purse bets, and then losing. Groves was even classy about that during the post fight press. I would've been sticking it right to that pr!ck!

owen10ozzy wrote:How can he avoid Degale....when he has already faced and beaten him. I'm sorry but DeGale for is the epitome of an Olympic hype machine for me.

He was flocked as the next best thing since sliced bread since his Olympic success, and ok he is not the first but his career has been a downward trajectory since then! He has done nothing but go backward in the pro-game.

The problem is that he bought into his own hype and slagged everyone off before he had even done anything. Yes all boxers do it; but those who do at least tend to have done something themselves, this guy hasn't whilst he has been pro.

His trash talk in the build up to the Groves fight was awful and just bordering on stupid. He talked non stop about how he was going to smash ugly boys face in and beat him convincingly...then come fight night he was found out by a guy 'who couldn't box and didn't have the skills to beat him'. The early celebration and then realisation it wasn't him who had won was one of the most beautiful moments I have witnessed in the ring.

He may very well be the European champion, however he has looked nothing but ordinary for quite some time now. He makes the same mistakes over and over again; for example allowing himself to be backed up onto the ropes and outfought on the inside; for someone who is supposed to be exceptionally talented I honestly think he lacks some of the most basic fundamentals in the game.

The fact is Groves won their encounter, has been British and Commonwealth Champion. Has fought stateside, Germany and beaten a gate keeper in the division in Johnson...and perhaps most importantly has looked like he is improving fight upon fight.

It's a strange one because usually people like to see the 'bad/arrogant guy' get it handed to them, but the manner in which DeGale portrays himself people just aren't fussed either way.

For me this is a case of the nicer guy getting the shot and in my opinion it's well deserved. I would applaud Groves if he were to win, and if I were him I would then proceed to stick to fingers up to DeGale and say

'Whose laughing now Chunky, the Ugly Ginger is a World Champion, fighting on the big stage and you my arrogant tool of a man will not be getting a shot anytime soon....but hey enjoy being the headline act down at my local shopping center next weekend Mr Olympic!!'

This made me laugh.

End of the day it was a very close fight that could have gone either way.
Degale is by far the better of the 2 fighters and his time will come but he will need to go down another route because he is being fazed out.

If he was by far the better he would have won but as he isn't he lost.

That's the one thing I just don't get about this whole thing. For ever an age we have been hearing that DeGale is the better of the two....how?!

In their fight who was it who showed he could box to a different game plan...change up his tactics and use skills he hadn't shown us before to come out on top? DeGale?! Errrm No...

I don't doubt DeGale has talent but I just don't see anything special in him. His punches lack zip...his jab is non-relevant...he gets caught on the ropes far to much...his head movement is pretty shocking for a box and move fighter and his footwork is nothing special...if it was he wouldn't be coming out of fights with C Class European's looking like he has been in a war!

The guy has seemingly learnt nothing in training because his boxing just hasn't changed at all since he has been pro.

I may have to rout around and find the article which discussed who will go further out of the two of them before the fight. In it I stated that I saw nothing special in DeGale...and I will stick to that belief...in fact I will go even further and say I don't think he is as good as I gave him props for then!!

To be quite honest with you I don't see him ever winning a huge fight nor a legitimate World Title....I honestly just don't think he is that good. If he and Groves were to step in the ring tomorrow, George would come out on top again and I think this time would stop him!

Olympic gold, British and European champ and you write him off like that?

A bit harsh mate. Degale is going about his career the hard and honest way.He is learning his craft and has done very well up to now. Face it he is a very skillfull fighter and is a handful for anyone.

Degale's defence is awful, gets hit far too often, in trouble against Wilczelski, and the level of opposition of late are of poor standard. Honestly don't feel he has improved at all.
Perhaps he should have jumped on a plane and gone stateside to improve.

As soon as Groves' chin feels the power of Froch's punchs its all over.


I won't be surprised if its another Cleverly v Kovalev effort.

Lets be honest, what can we say about Groves' to justify he's better than Bute.

Strongback wrote:As soon as Groves' chin feels the power of Froch's punchs its all over.


I won't be surprised if its another Cleverly v Kovalev effort.  

Lets be honest, what can we say about Groves' to justify he's better than Bute.

Massive step up in class for Groves, should have definitely fought a couple of world class opponents before stepping in with Froch.
Froch is capable of doing a Bute style performance on Groves, massive shock if he beats Froch can't see it.

Owen are you not degales biggest fan ?

Joking aside have to agree with the general sentiment that chunky is not anywhere near fulfilling his self professed "potential" and is an odious little man to boot.

In regard to the OP can't see anything but a froch win. Really like groves but can't see froch having slipped enough for George to take advantage. Hope I'm wrong though

Owen are you not degales biggest fan ?

Joking aside have to agree with the general sentiment that chunky is not anywhere near fulfilling his self professed "potential" and is an odious little man to boot.

In regard to the OP can't see anything but a froch win. Really like groves but can't see froch having slipped enough for George to take advantage. Hope I'm wrong though

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Olympic gold, British and European champ and you write him off like that?

A bit harsh mate. Degale is going about his career the hard and honest way.He is learning his craft and has done very well up to now. Face it he is a very skillfull fighter and is a handful for anyone.

I agree, degale has more ability and just because people see him as a chav they don't give him credit, most had him shading the fight with groves and even if they did not it was very close with degale taking center of the the ring for most of the fight, so if groves is so good how can degale be "nothing special"? degale also took that fight on with more expectancy than groves and has always had to deal with me pressure being a gold medalist..

I think he has a better chin than groves and more ability, groves hits quite hard and is good but has played it a little safer than degale has, although I do think groves has the better trainer and is probably the better pupil...