Haye v Fury - Evidence shows that Fury has a great chance !!

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Look at Haye's wins at heavy................Looked stunning against the 6ft Chisora.............Looked imposing beating the 6ft 5 inch Audley but then again mcguigan would have looked imposing against a non punching bottler too..........

However supersized heavyweights like Wlad and valuev Haye looked anything but...........In fact he hardly engaged with them both.......

How many punches did Valuev throw at Haye and he lost by a very slim margin.....Hardly any...He didn't need to because Haye didn't engage more than sporadically...why because he was intimidated by Valuev's size..........

The other big guy Wlad more of the same only worse...........Haye was intimidated and basically bottled it...............

Wlad is 6ft 8 and 255 +..........

Valuev a non threatening giant is even bigger..........

Those fights show Haye respects size and as Fury is 6ft 9 and 255 +...........Then facts dictate that Haye will be in awe again.........It's in his DNA..

We also know Haye doesn't take a shot too well either and that If Fury lands it's over !!!!

Haye also has 16 months ring rust to figure in too.........

People look to the Chisora demolition and Audley as reasons to dismiss Fury's challenge....BUT IT'S FOLLY because Haye wouldn't have cause to be intimidated by them.........and Haye is a bully..

Best to look at Valuev and Wlad as a true barometer of the fight........Fury will intimidate Haye his size alone dictates that.............Can he follow through ?????

Who knows but it's crazy to rule Fury out.........Haye has speed but he did against Valuev...........and he refused to let his hands go......

Fury has a great chance..Forget Chis and Audley those wins are irrelevant..

Didn't Carl thompson cream david Haye ??

Not seen that fight then Truss?

No did Haye win ??

Absolutely battered Thompson and gassed out, ref waved the fight off with Haye still trying to throw a punch when the ref called it.
Matter of opinion, nothing against Fury personally quite witty actually, but just don't rate him as a fighter that's why I fancy Haye to do the business.

No he battered Thompson round the ring for four and a half rounds before running out of steam and getting stopped on his feat.

Did he lose then ??

Yes he did but very few could have stood up to onslaught over the first four rounds not to mention it was many years ago. Cunningham decking Fury was this year in contrast.

Everyone seem to forget Haye was only in his 11th fight when he fought Thompson so not that experienced either, which would probably account as to why he gassed out.

You make it sound like Omaha beach........

Must have watched a different fight..

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:

PPVxHOTTY wrote:Its funny how people use Cunningham 'put Fury down, so Haye will' statement, yet don't realise Fury got up and used his size to his advantage along with some dirty tactics and got the job done. To add to this lets not forget this is the same Cunningham that Haye ducked at cruiser. Anybody can be knocked down its what happens next that is important, and Fury like he done before got up and won. I agree with Truss that Haye will struggle with Fury's size, getting the win will be down to 'how Fury utilizes his size/physical advantages.  

Haye ducked him when was that?

The point is that Cunningham was an average cruiserweight with no punch so it figures that Haye with far more ability and power closes the show if he lands the same punch.

Was just saying at time fight could have been made and Haye claimed to be 'undisputed cruiserweight champ' But he had only TWO world title fights at that weight. The first was against the fading Jean Marc Mormeck, who was shot after his two wars with O'Neil Bell. The second was against the paper champion, delicate-chinned Enzo Maccarinelli, need I say more.

He never fought the best PRIME cruiserweights at that time:

1. The IBF Champion, Steve Cunningham, who has a style that Haye wouldn't have been able to deal with.
2. Tough and skillful Tomasz Adamek.
3. Hard-punching and durable Krzysztof Wlodarczyk, who is a year younger than Haye and has never been stopped.

I just thought Id add to the claims that Cunningham troubling Fury jibes and Cunningham was number 1 at cruiser he wasnt average, he took on the best possible opponents at the time, unlike Haye.

Well Mormeck was the top dog at the weight and at the time represented the biggest challenge, Cunningham was always average regardless of his ranking.

Aye, Haye ducked Cunningham in much the same way that Mayweather has spent the last two years ducking Malignaggi and Senchenko!

Rather than pinpointing that a Haye-Cunningham fight never happened, let's focus on why it never happened - namely because Haye had his sights set on bigger and better things up at Heavyweight. Who was more interested in seeing Haye-Cunningham in late 2008 than they were in seeing if Haye could make good on his promise of reviving the Heavyweight scene?

Cunningham had little lustre at the time as his win over Huck was achieved before Marco had even scored a significant win of his own. Very decent win for Cunningham, of course, but arguing that it's a win to make Haye quiver is pushing things, for sure.

While we're on that subject, anyway, Cunningham has always been a good boxer and I wasn't surprised at all that his speed and good movement gave Fury something to think about. He was completely ripped off in that second fight against Adamek (who, although not elite by any means, is still a fighter you have to respect and who can give high-ranked contenders a decent work out) and he's a wily campaigner who knows the tricks of survival, as he showed against Hernandez.

What really did surprise me, however, was how much Fury struggled against the power of Cunningham, because let's be frank, Cunningham ain't got that much of it! Have to admit that I haven't seen the fight since it happened back in April, but my memory of it is very different to those who are arguing that Fury was merely off balance when that right hand landed on him, and that he was never really hurt. He spent much of that fight being visibly jolted and stunned by Cunningham's right, which couldn't miss for the most part, and the way he was forced to grab so often doesn't suggest to me a fighter whose only problem was his balance.

I can understand why some are arguing that, on the basis of his safety-first approach against Valuev and the way he was shut down and rendered ineffective against Wladimir, Haye might be intimidated or put very much on the backfoot against Fury.

However, the big difference here is that, before fighting Haye, neither Valuev nor Wladimir had been made to look toothless and vulnerable for long periods against converted Cruiserweights who were long in the tooth the way Fury was against Cunningham! Sure, Valuev didn't look all that much cop against Ruiz or Holyfield, but nor was he ever decked, stunned and outboxed for a few rounds on the spin, either. As for Wlad, well he'd hardly lost a round for the previous few years before facing Haye.

I'm pretty sure that Haye might have made a better and more aggressive fist of it against those two if they'd been scared so badly by a fighter such as Cunningham right before he faced them. Haye will surely look at what Cunningham managed to do to Fury for a few rounds and be confident that he can improve on it threefold. Anything less than this, and Haye's had a bit of a shocker really, because while Cunningham is no patsy, Haye is faster, a bigger puncher, younger and has been campaigning as a Heavyweight for longer.

I think Fury will earn his money in this one, but I can't see him pulling the upset.

People are forgetting that haye broke his hand very early against valuev which is why he didn't throw much, just barely enough to knick the rounds. I can't see how fury makes a decent go of this, too slow and not skilled enough to win at range despite his size and he can't wear haye down by mauling like against Cunningham as he'll get bombed out. Be surprised if this goes past 3 rounds, fury gets hit for fun and haye hits hard. Also saying that all you need to do to beat haye is be big and throw out a jab is a massive diservice to wlad who boxed superbly that night and he has more physical advantages than fury as well, fast hands for a heavyweight.

PPVxHOTTY wrote:

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:

PPVxHOTTY wrote:Its funny how people use Cunningham 'put Fury down, so Haye will' statement, yet don't realise Fury got up and used his size to his advantage along with some dirty tactics and got the job done. To add to this lets not forget this is the same Cunningham that Haye ducked at cruiser. Anybody can be knocked down its what happens next that is important, and Fury like he done before got up and won. I agree with Truss that Haye will struggle with Fury's size, getting the win will be down to 'how Fury utilizes his size/physical advantages.  

Haye ducked him when was that?

The point is that Cunningham was an average cruiserweight with no punch so it figures that Haye with far more ability and power closes the show if he lands the same punch.

Was just saying at time fight could have been made and Haye claimed to be 'undisputed cruiserweight champ' But he had only TWO world title fights at that weight. The first was against the fading Jean Marc Mormeck, who was shot after his two wars with O'Neil Bell. The second was against the paper champion, delicate-chinned Enzo Maccarinelli, need I say more.

He never fought the best PRIME cruiserweights at that time:

1. The IBF Champion, Steve Cunningham, who has a style that Haye wouldn't have been able to deal with.
2. Tough and skillful Tomasz Adamek.
3. Hard-punching and durable Krzysztof Wlodarczyk, who is a year younger than Haye and has never been stopped.

I just thought Id add to the claims that Cunningham troubling Fury jibes and Cunningham was number 1 at cruiser he wasnt average, he took on the best possible opponents at the time, unlike Haye.

Mormeck was the man at the weight and the divisional #1. Haye ko'd him and became top dog. You can try talk round that and find excuses to knock Haye but, as Chris says, it's about as meaningless as saying Floyd is ducking divisional gatekeepers like Paulie and Senchenko.

All this wlad masterclass against haye. It was just me then who thought both guys looked a bit scared of the other, and that wlad just jabbed and grabbed his way through a crap fight winning on work rate, with barely any punches actually landing from either fighter.

Well said Milky. There does seem to be a trend recently to reinvent Wlad’s performance as him fighting above and beyond himself. Suspect folk do this to try and mitigate how abject Haye was but on watching the fight I did not particularly see Wlad do anything you would not see him do in every other defence. Not a criticism of him as if it ain’t broke don’t fix it but certainly do not think he found an extra gear to deal with Haye.

I genuinely think wlad looked edgier than usual rowley.. Whether it was respect of haye's power, or just because it was a genuine 'big fight' I couldn't say. Whichever it was a pretty stock wlad performance.

It was a pasting on the cards but it wasn't a pasting. He just edged the rounds on punches thrown and generally outlanded haye 1 half slipped jab to nil. I was scoring it, and after each round it was 'no-one did much, wlad threw a few jabs, a couple half caught haye on the top of the head, I'll have to give it to him'.

Dreadful fight.

It was one of those fights that over the course of 12 rounds was very close but round by round Wlad was edging it slightly, I personally don't think it takes a leap of faith to suggest Haye could win a return were he to be more active.

... And if he had a fully functional set of toes

88Chris05 wrote:
However, the big difference here is that, before fighting Haye, neither Valuev nor Wladimir had been made to look toothless and vulnerable for long periods against converted Cruiserweights who were long in the tooth the way Fury was against Cunningham!

You should check out Valuev's fight against Marcelo Dominguez.

Will have to check it out then, Benson. Cheers for the heads up.

88Chris05 wrote:Will have to check it out then, Benson. Cheers for the heads up.

Please don't Chris, The Gestapo weren't that cruel. Benson should serve a ban for suggesting such a thing.

Rodney wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:Will have to check it out then, Benson. Cheers for the heads up.

Please don't Chris, The Gestapo weren't that cruel. Benson should serve a ban for suggesting such a thing.

I usually recommend Johnny Nelson's career box-set to people I don't like or force them to read through D4's entire posting history  

Maybe I can get away with just having you give me a two-line recap of the fight, Benson. Which was it - Valuev made to look totally toothless in attack, or actually being hurt and rocked at some stage by a natural fourteen stoner? Or a mix of both?

Could there be a worse career box set than Valuev to own? Have to admit have not seen all his fights but cannot recall him in anything but a stinker. At least Johnny Nelson has the Thompson fight to bring his batting average up a little.

88Chris05 wrote:Maybe I can get away with just having you give me a two-line recap of the fight, Benson. Which was it - Valuev made to look totally toothless in attack, or actually being hurt and rocked at some stage by a natural fourteen stoner? Or a mix of both?

Nah, he wasnt rocked or even remotely hurt, just looked toothless in attack. Dominguez was buzzing all around him like fly and Valuev was swatting air for most part.

Ta, Benson.

By that definition, then Ruiz and so-old-I'm-almost-dead Evander did make Valuev look toothless too, but not in the sense that they were able to reel off two, three, four rounds at a time against him, which I was trying to get at more than anything. Cunningham looked as if he could have widely outscored Fury if he hadn't taken that foul punch near the end, although Fury's power was always going to come in to the fight more and more as Cunningham tired himself out with movement.

But my God, yeah, a Valuev boxset is a thought and a half. He actually made Ruiz look like a come-forward, attacking fighter in that first bout they had, which takes some doing. I had Ruiz a couple of points up at the end of that, too.

You're all gonna feel dreadful about those harsh words when Valuev resumes his career after his 2 year hiatus to find and capture a Yeti.

DAVE667 wrote:You're all gonna feel dreadful about those harsh words when Valuev resumes his career after his 2 year hiatus to find and capture a Yeti.

Is he looking for a wife then?

No, a real Yeti. He's already married to a very nice lady. He writes her poetry and suchlike and they make most unlikely couple since Tom Cruise and any woman.

I did hear that he hunting for a yeti, actually. Rest of it made me laugh!

TopHat24/7 wrote:

PPVxHOTTY wrote:

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:

PPVxHOTTY wrote:Its funny how people use Cunningham 'put Fury down, so Haye will' statement, yet don't realise Fury got up and used his size to his advantage along with some dirty tactics and got the job done. To add to this lets not forget this is the same Cunningham that Haye ducked at cruiser. Anybody can be knocked down its what happens next that is important, and Fury like he done before got up and won. I agree with Truss that Haye will struggle with Fury's size, getting the win will be down to 'how Fury utilizes his size/physical advantages.  

Haye ducked him when was that?

The point is that Cunningham was an average cruiserweight with no punch so it figures that Haye with far more ability and power closes the show if he lands the same punch.

Was just saying at time fight could have been made and Haye claimed to be 'undisputed cruiserweight champ' But he had only TWO world title fights at that weight. The first was against the fading Jean Marc Mormeck, who was shot after his two wars with O'Neil Bell. The second was against the paper champion, delicate-chinned Enzo Maccarinelli, need I say more.

He never fought the best PRIME cruiserweights at that time:

1. The IBF Champion, Steve Cunningham, who has a style that Haye wouldn't have been able to deal with.
2. Tough and skillful Tomasz Adamek.
3. Hard-punching and durable Krzysztof Wlodarczyk, who is a year younger than Haye and has never been stopped.

I just thought Id add to the claims that Cunningham troubling Fury jibes and Cunningham was number 1 at cruiser he wasnt average, he took on the best possible opponents at the time, unlike Haye.

Mormeck was the man at the weight and the divisional #1. Haye ko'd him and became top dog.  You can try talk round that and find excuses to knock Haye but, as Chris says, it's about as meaningless as saying Floyd is ducking divisional gatekeepers like Paulie and Senchenko.

Why was Mormeck number 1 at weight? because Haye fought him!! Cunningham was ranked number 1, and if not number he certainly was higher than Mormeck at time, it not a excuse to hit at Haye its a simple fact Mormeck was ranked 'lower', yet Haye claimed to unify weight division. Just because Mormeck held a belt dosent mean he was number 1.

Fortunately for me I can back my facts up with hard solid evidence, should also note that Mormeck was a unified champion at the time of the Haye fight.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings:_Cruiserweight--2000s

In case the O'Neill Bell thing throws you, check who beat him for the lineal title and was thus recognised as the divisions number one in 2007.

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:Fortunately for me I can back my facts up with hard solid evidence, should also note that Mormeck was a unified champion at the time of the Haye fight.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings:_Cruiserweight--2000s

In case the O'Neill Bell thing throws you, check who beat him for the lineal title and was thus recognised as the divisions number one in 2007.

All these paper belts are the reason these rankings are flawed, in essence I guess I did criticise Haye too much but the fight many wanted was Cunningham fight and he was no divisional gatekeeper in fact Cunningham fought the 'better' opposition but Haye managed to unify weight class with Mormeck.

The fight people wanted was Haye against Mormeck, the guy who had been regarded as the best in the division for years, he had been champion for near on 5 years including a quickly overturned loss to Bell. In contrast Cunnigham had only just won the IBF title.

A fight with the lineal and unified champion is more sought after than fighting a mere belt holder, would pay to make sure your facts are in fact facts before passing them off as such.

Mormeck- Bell, Hill, Braithwaite and Gurov
Cunningham- Rothman, Jones, Wlodarczyk and Davis

Both had a record of 4-1 against top ten opposition but what sways it in Mormecks favour is beating the divisions number one twice as opposed to not at all.

So who do you think will win Haye or Fury and how?

#pwned

Fury walked 'square on' with his hands down into Cunninghams right hand. I don't care who you are or what kind of chin you have if that punch lands any fighter is going down.


The key to understanding this is he was 'square on'. Because in a square on stance the fighter has less leverage to shift the weight of the punch through his back leg he can easily be knocked off balance.

As many here know one of the first things you are taught in a boxing club is how to set yourself up with one foot in front of the other and the torso is turned through almost 90 degrees. That provides a solid foundation, leverage and makes it harder to be hit clean.

Fury walked into Cunninging's right hand like a sailor in a bar room brawl. That's Fury's biggest problem, he lacks discipline and can't help getting into a street fight. The minute he does that with Haye he's getting knocked out.

Would tend to agree largely strongy. The only thing I would say in Fury’s defence is Peter was not in his corner for the Cunningham fight. Peter does tend to make a difference as he tends to keep Fury’s natural instinct to brawl in check a little better. There is also the possibility Fury looked at Cunningham’s record and decided foolishly he did not need to worry too much about what he offered. Have to think even Fury does not go into this fight with such a gung ho approach.

Still don’t think he has enough in his arsenal to win this bit have to suspect he will endeavor to be a bit more circumspect.

Strongback wrote:Fury walked 'square on' with his hands down into Cunninghams right hand.  I don't care who you are or what kind of chin you have if that punch lands any fighter is going down.  


The key to understanding this is he was 'square on'.  Because in a square on stance the fighter has less leverage to shift the weight of the punch through his back leg he can easily be knocked off balance.

As many here know one of the first things you are taught in a boxing club is how to set yourself up with one foot in front of the other and the torso is turned through almost 90 degrees.  That provides a solid foundation, leverage and makes it harder to be hit clean.

Fury walked into Cunninging's right hand like a sailor in a bar room brawl.  That's Fury's biggest problem, he lacks discipline and can't help getting into a street fight.  The minute he does that with Haye he's getting knocked out.

Try remembering that when talking about Haye being floored by Monte Barrett

TopHat24/7 wrote:#pwned

It was almost too easy, the brilliant thing about the internet is being able to check so called facts before posting them on here but some seem unable to do it.