Haye's Chin: Really that bad?

As a few of us have done this I have also taken one of my old BBC 606 articles but I have modified it slightly.

David Haye is constantly said to have an "iffy" chin. Whilst I appreciate he is in no way a Vitali Klitschko when it comes to durability in the jaw department, just how bad is it in reality?

Let's look at the knockdowns:

Lolenga Mock put him on the floor.

Carl Thompson TKO'd him.

Mormeck gave him a flash knockdown.

With the exception of the Thompson fight, both the other knockdowns were avenged with a brutal KO of the other fighter, although he was a bit wobbly after Mock's punch. Haye has acknowledged that he fought a terrible fight against Thompson, was gassed and has learned from the experience. If I remember correctly, his corner threw in the towel as well. With Mock it was also due to his inexperience, being only his 7th or 8th fight.

Is Haye's chin like Wlad's? Obviously he will go over when tagged by a decent shot, but due to his speed he has negated a lot of the uncertainty. Wlad does this with his jab and defensive skills. I'm pretty sure Ruiz hit Haye flush a few times and he didn't budge, so the "being hit by a fully-fledged heavy" doesn't really hold sway here. That said, he hasn't faced a big puncher yet.

Enzo hit him hard and he stayed up. So is Haye's chin really that bad? He also appears to have quite good recuperation skills. Any boxer will go if hit correctly. Is it a myth fuelled by the press and non-fans looking to discredit him?

Mock was a super mid. Haye was on queer street for a bit. He has also been wobbled by Barret and a few others who get near his jaw.

Seem to remember him going down to Barrett too but it's never mentioned so maybe not.

Considering he's barely had any fights where he's taken any punishment the list is a bit long.

The guys who hurt and decked Wlad were big, strong, hard hitting HW's.

The guys who hurt and decked Haye were non-punchers. He was also floored by single shots rather than a combination of blows.
Mock was a feather-fisted SMW, Mormeck was a light puncher. Neither Thompson or Barrett were seen as particularly powerful hitters.
Although Haye was able to recover from most of these knockdowns, the fact he was floored by them is a cause for concern.
Wheather he will recover from being whalloped by a big hitting HW remains to be seen.

No Haye has a good chin, not great though.

J.Benson II wrote:The guys who hurt and decked Wlad were big, strong, hard hitting HW's.

Corrie Sanders is only an inch or two taller than Haye. He also weighed 225lbs when beating Wlad. Haye weighed in at 222lbs against Ruiz. Not much of a difference really.

Mormeck caught Haye with a shot to the temple and, as demonstrated numerous times over the years, many fighters go over from those shots.

Haye walked square on into a shot from Barrett which caught Haye going back on his heels. He lost his balance and went over, Barrett then hit Haye when he was on the deck and was deducted a point. Technically a KD but certainly not due to Haye's iffy chin. If we recall, Barrett annihilated big Tye Fields prior to the Haye fight and recently became the first man to put Tua on his backside.

Lewis was also considered to have a suspect chin but there's also evidence to show he was able to take some monstrous shots in his career and NOT fall over.

Thing with Wlad is that whenever he's been caught cleanly, he's been in trouble. I can't recall him ever taking a heavy shot and NOT falling over. Therefore the possibility that Haye can KO him is very real indeed. Haye's a pretty clinical finisher when he needs to be, he had Audley on queer street and literally punched the snot out of him. If Haye catches Wlad and wobbles him, I can't see David letting his man off the hook.

DAVE667 wrote:I can't recall him ever taking a heavy shot and NOT falling over.

Think that's fair to say about either of them.

One thing about Haye is that he's proven he can keep his head when hurt, not sure if Wlad can. But Haye hasn't fought a puncher like Wlad.

Scottrf wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:I can't recall him ever taking a heavy shot and NOT falling over.

Think that's fair to say about either of them.

One thing about Haye is that he's proven he can keep his head when hurt, not sure if Wlad can. But Haye hasn't fought a puncher like Wlad.

Whereas Wlad's already been in with a guy like Haye and fallen apart. He hasn't fought anyone like that since though...coincidence?

Mr Bounce wrote:

J.Benson II wrote:The guys who hurt and decked Wlad were big, strong, hard hitting HW's.

Corrie Sanders is only an inch or two taller than Haye. He also weighed 225lbs when beating Wlad. Haye weighed in at 222lbs against Ruiz. Not much of a difference really.

I'm not questioning the fact that Haye has the power to KO Wlad. He certainly does.
I'm just disputing the "chin" issue.

Corrie Sanders was a hard hitting HW.

Mormeck and Mock were small and light punchers.

If you can get decked by a light hitting SMW, your chin has issues.

Not necessarily, Prince Naz was decked on occasion, and he had a cast iron chin. Being knocked over isn't all about chin, it is about balance and momentum at times, too.

Mr Bounce wrote:

J.Benson II wrote:The guys who hurt and decked Wlad were big, strong, hard hitting HW's.

Corrie Sanders is only an inch or two taller than Haye. He also weighed 225lbs when beating Wlad. Haye weighed in at 222lbs against Ruiz. Not much of a difference really.

This answer really refers to Haye's punching power rather than his chin. I don't think many people are in doubt that Haye has the punching power to KO wlad - regardless of the fact that he's a small HW.

As for his chin. I would hardly count the barrett kd and it's pretty unfair to go back to his 7th pro fight. But, if he's been kd by Mormeck then you can rest assured that he could be badly KO'd by a giant like Wlad.

I would say that Haye has a decent chin - nothing to panic over and he could take a decent shot. But, in HW terms he is hardly up there with the best. Haye could not get into a firefight with a genuine solid punching hw (or super hw in wlad's case). Take a look at Vitali vs Lewis - look at some of the shots being traded by 2 genuinely big hws - could you imagine Haye getting involved in that and coming out ok? I couldn't.

Haye will have to use speed and distance to avoid the full force of Wlad's punches - then hopefully he can leap in past the jab and get off fast combos before getting smothered. This is an up in the air fight for me. If Haye catches wlad at all then I agree with Dave - he probably won't let him off the hook.

Corrie Sanders was a hard hitting HW.
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Not necessarily..but he DID have fast hands and that's what will do for Wlad.

I notice a lot of people often saying "speed kills" but somehow, this is overlooked whenever discussing Haye's chances against Wlad

DAVE667 wrote:Corrie Sanders was a hard hitting HW.
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Not necessarily..but he DID have fast hands and that's what will do for Wlad.

I notice a lot of people often saying "speed kills" but somehow, this is overlooked whenever discussing Haye's chances against Wlad

Although his handspeed was his main attribute, Sanders was also a pretty hard hitter.
He had a good KO record and Hasim Rahman admitted after their fight that he had never felt that kind of force before.
I can't imagine that he could have bounced Wlad up and down like a yoyo unless he had some serious power behind his shots.

I don't think Haye has the best chin in the World but its not as bad as its made out to be and Haye seems to play along with the 'chinny' role.

The Lolenga Mock fight reminds me of Benn vs Anthony Logan. A young, hard hitting fighter, fighting recklessly and getting caught.

The Thompson fight was more to do with Haye punching himself out against the more experienced and extremely tough Thompson.

The Mormeck knockdown is interesting as while Haye did get caught, he also stood on the advertsing triangle on the ring apron, losing his balance, the only way was down though he tried to stay up.(But his balance and left leg had gone from under him)

Some claim he was floored by Monte Barrett but having studied a slow motion gif image of that - he ducks under the punch(it possibly catches him on the back of the neck). He was then nailed full force in the face while on the floor.

DAVE667 wrote:Corrie Sanders was a hard hitting HW.
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Not necessarily..but he DID have fast hands and that's what will do for Wlad.

I notice a lot of people often saying "speed kills" but somehow, this is overlooked whenever discussing Haye's chances against Wlad

Wlad is no slouch either. If Ruiz can keep Haye at bay with his jab, Wlad keeps him away permenantly. Haye does not use his speed effectively enough in my opinion. He doesn't engage and is too concerned with conserving energy. In short he is not busy enough.

WelshDevilRob wrote:Some claim he was floored by Monte Barrett but having studied a slow motion gif image of that - he ducks under the punch(it possibly catches him on the back of the neck). He was then nailed full force in the face while on the floor.

Fair enough, don't remember much about it other than Haye looking pretty reckless in that fight.

Haye knew Ruiz posed no threat to him so was happy to allow Ruiz to get his jab off. However, Haye knows Wlad had a good jab (no matter how often he criticises the man's 'boring' tactics) and you can be certain Hayeis fully aware of the need to be at his best.

Maybe his best won't be good enough, but you can be sure he won't underestimate Wlad come fight night...nor will he be fighting in third gear.

He didn't put his chin in any sort of danger against Valuev, who despite his size is not a great puncher, and barely got the decision with his tactics of not taking any risks whatsoever.

If Haye was sure he could take a shot he wouldn't have let the fight be anywhere near as close as it was.

Just my 2 cents.

DAVE667 wrote:Haye knew Ruiz posed no threat to him so was happy to allow Ruiz to get his jab off. However, Haye knows Wlad had a good jab (no matter how often he criticises the man's 'boring' tactics) and you can be certain Hayeis fully aware of the need to be at his best.

Maybe his best won't be good enough, but you can be sure he won't underestimate Wlad come fight night...nor will he be fighting in third gear.

Haye also didn't spar leading upto the Ruiz fight because of a cut he had on his brow. So, he was abit out of practice interms of distance and timing. Plus, Ruiz gameplan seemed to be to just rush Haye.

wow_junky wrote:He didn't put his chin in any sort of danger against Valuev, who despite his size is not a great puncher, and barely got the decision with his tactics of not taking any risks whatsoever.

If Haye was sure he could take a shot he wouldn't have let the fight be anywhere near as close as it was.

Just my 2 cents.

Haye injured his hand in the 2nd or 4th round against Valuev which mean't he took alot less risks and threw alot less. Though, the fight probably would still have gone the distance and Haye was never likely to brawl with a man 8 stone heavier.

Hurting his hand shouldn't affect his output that much - he could have thrown scoring shots (rather than hurtful ones) with a broken hand, but he chose to run instead and almost lost the fight. Why would he have gambled on that tactic when if he knew he could have taken a shot he could have won rounds much much clearer?

wow_junky wrote:Hurting his hand shouldn't affect his output that much - he could have thrown scoring shots (rather than hurtful ones) with a broken hand, but he chose to run instead and almost lost the fight. Why would he have gambled on that tactic when if he knew he could have taken a shot he could have won rounds much much clearer?

Throwing hurtful shots with a broken hand still hurts like a mofo'er.

azania wrote:

wow_junky wrote:Hurting his hand shouldn't affect his output that much - he could have thrown scoring shots (rather than hurtful ones) with a broken hand, but he chose to run instead and almost lost the fight. Why would he have gambled on that tactic when if he knew he could have taken a shot he could have won rounds much much clearer?

Throwing hurtful shots with a broken hand still hurts like a mofo'er.

Yeah, but if Haye had lost (which he very nearly did) his whole career would have taken a massive, massive hit. Besides, he still had 1 hand to throw bombs with, and could have won rounds clearly with 1 hand... but chose not to

wow_junky wrote:

azania wrote:

wow_junky wrote:Hurting his hand shouldn't affect his output that much - he could have thrown scoring shots (rather than hurtful ones) with a broken hand, but he chose to run instead and almost lost the fight. Why would he have gambled on that tactic when if he knew he could have taken a shot he could have won rounds much much clearer?

Throwing hurtful shots with a broken hand still hurts like a mofo'er.

Yeah, but if Haye had lost (which he very nearly did) his whole career would have taken a massive, massive hit. Besides, he still had 1 hand to throw bombs with, and could have won rounds clearly with 1 hand... but chose not to

Haye didn't nearly lose that fight. If it had been a draw there would have been uproar about the German officials. You may not have liked the hit and run style but he won fair and square.

Michaels, Sean wrote:

wow_junky wrote:

azania wrote:

wow_junky wrote:Hurting his hand shouldn't affect his output that much - he could have thrown scoring shots (rather than hurtful ones) with a broken hand, but he chose to run instead and almost lost the fight. Why would he have gambled on that tactic when if he knew he could have taken a shot he could have won rounds much much clearer?

Throwing hurtful shots with a broken hand still hurts like a mofo'er.

Yeah, but if Haye had lost (which he very nearly did) his whole career would have taken a massive, massive hit. Besides, he still had 1 hand to throw bombs with, and could have won rounds clearly with 1 hand... but chose not to

Haye didn't nearly lose that fight. If it had been a draw there would have been uproar about the German officials. You may not have liked the hit and run style but he won fair and square.

Err, Haye fought a hideous fight and couldn't have much of an argument if he didn't get the nod. Haye himself didn't know if he'd done enough to win, see his reaction after the fight during the scorecard announcement for proof of that

wow_junky wrote:Hurting his hand shouldn't affect his output that much - he could have thrown scoring shots (rather than hurtful ones) with a broken hand, but he chose to run instead and almost lost the fight. Why would he have gambled on that tactic when if he knew he could have taken a shot he could have won rounds much much clearer?

erm...injuring your hand is EXACTLY what effects your punch output.
when someone has a skull like valuevs, you dont want to punch it with a broken/damaged hand.

choosing to run as you put it was exactly what won him the fight, not nearly lost it as you said.
he went in, scored a few points with the judges and then got out. it worked, he got a UD. job done. plan worked perfectly if you ask me.

wow_junky wrote:

azania wrote:

wow_junky wrote:Hurting his hand shouldn't affect his output that much - he could have thrown scoring shots (rather than hurtful ones) with a broken hand, but he chose to run instead and almost lost the fight. Why would he have gambled on that tactic when if he knew he could have taken a shot he could have won rounds much much clearer?

Throwing hurtful shots with a broken hand still hurts like a mofo'er.

Yeah, but if Haye had lost (which he very nearly did) his whole career would have taken a massive, massive hit. Besides, he still had 1 hand to throw bombs with, and could have won rounds clearly with 1 hand... but chose not to

Come on wow. You sound like some mercenary promoter who when informed that Aaron Pryor was blind in one eye, she responded that he can still see from the other. Pryor went on to lose.

Fighting one handed and letting your opponent know that given him an added advantage.

wow_junky wrote:

Michaels, Sean wrote:

wow_junky wrote:

azania wrote:

wow_junky wrote:Hurting his hand shouldn't affect his output that much - he could have thrown scoring shots (rather than hurtful ones) with a broken hand, but he chose to run instead and almost lost the fight. Why would he have gambled on that tactic when if he knew he could have taken a shot he could have won rounds much much clearer?

Throwing hurtful shots with a broken hand still hurts like a mofo'er.

Yeah, but if Haye had lost (which he very nearly did) his whole career would have taken a massive, massive hit. Besides, he still had 1 hand to throw bombs with, and could have won rounds clearly with 1 hand... but chose not to

Haye didn't nearly lose that fight. If it had been a draw there would have been uproar about the German officials. You may not have liked the hit and run style but he won fair and square.

Err, Haye fought a hideous fight and couldn't have much of an argument if he didn't get the nod. Haye himself didn't know if he'd done enough to win, see his reaction after the fight during the scorecard announcement for proof of that

He won the fight in Germany on points mate - surely that is reason enough to believe he edged it? What did Valuev do apart from throw shots at thin air. Not a great fight admittedly but he clearly won.

All I'm saying is that in the biggest fight of Haye's career he didn't once put his chin at risk against a guy who isn't a massive hitter. In my opinion the fight was close and Haye wasn't sure he did enough to win - why didn't he take more risks if he knew the fight was that close?

The broken hand excuse is pretty rubbish when you consider Haye didn't fight much different to usual, potshotting + running...

azania wrote:If you can get decked by a light hitting SMW, your chin has issues.

Conversely: Paul Williams was ruined by a guy who wasn't renowned for being a big puncher, in Martinez. Williams was also considered to be pretty durable too.

All I'm saying is that in the biggest fight of Haye's career he didn't once put his chin at risk against a guy who isn't a massive hitter.
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Valuev may not punch his weight but then again, when your opponent is that size, it's a ******* good job. Fighting in Germany against the "house fighter" which boxer is going to be stupid enough to allow his opponent even the merest sniff of a chance to steal the round on points? Any chance the judges had to award Valuev points and they take it, so the smart is to clearly demonstrate the man hasn't thrown anything like a meaningful punch.


The broken hand excuse is pretty rubbish when you consider Haye didn't fight much different to usual, potshotting + running...
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I used to think you were quite a smart cookie Junky, but your inability to be rational does you no favours here mate. Shame you can't put aside your obvious dislike of Haye as a person on this one.

I'm as big a Haye fan as there is on these boards and even I can see there's a chance Haye loses this one.

David Haye's usual style "potshotting and running"....heard it all now!!!!

BALTIMORA wrote:

azania wrote:If you can get decked by a light hitting SMW, your chin has issues.

Conversely: Paul Williams was ruined by a guy who wasn't renowned for being a big puncher, in Martinez. Williams was also considered to be pretty durable too.

True - but seeing the way Martinez ruined Dzinuruk as well I'm not sure what to make of his power!

wow_junky wrote:All I'm saying is that in the biggest fight of Haye's career he didn't once put his chin at risk against a guy who isn't a massive hitter. In my opinion the fight was close and Haye wasn't sure he did enough to win - why didn't he take more risks if he knew the fight was that close?

The broken hand excuse is pretty rubbish when you consider Haye didn't fight much different to usual, potshotting + running...

Why should he put his chin at risk at all? That'd just be stupid.

DAVE667 wrote:All I'm saying is that in the biggest fight of Haye's career he didn't once put his chin at risk against a guy who isn't a massive hitter.
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Valuev may not punch his weight but then again, when your opponent is that size, it's a ******* good job. Fighting in Germany against the "house fighter" which boxer is going to be stupid enough to allow his opponent even the merest sniff of a chance to steal the round on points? Any chance the judges had to award Valuev points and they take it, so the smart is to clearly demonstrate the man hasn't thrown anything like a meaningful punch.


The broken hand excuse is pretty rubbish when you consider Haye didn't fight much different to usual, potshotting + running...
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I used to think you were quite a smart cookie Junky, but your inability to be rational does you no favours here mate. Shame you can't put aside your obvious dislike of Haye as a person on this one.

I'm as big a Haye fan as there is on these boards and even I can see there's a chance Haye loses this one.

David Haye's usual style "potshotting and running"....heard it all now!!!!

I'm just offering an opinion, same as you guys defending Haye for each and every mistake! Is it so far fetched to say that Haye didn't up his game against Valuev because he was worried about getting tagged?

Potshotting + running maybe wasn't the best description of his style, but he does stay back at range (the running part) and leap in with his shots (potshotting) then move back to range... if that's not Haye's style then what is in your opinion?

BALTIMORA wrote:

wow_junky wrote:All I'm saying is that in the biggest fight of Haye's career he didn't once put his chin at risk against a guy who isn't a massive hitter. In my opinion the fight was close and Haye wasn't sure he did enough to win - why didn't he take more risks if he knew the fight was that close?

The broken hand excuse is pretty rubbish when you consider Haye didn't fight much different to usual, potshotting + running...

Why should he put his chin at risk at all? That'd just be stupid.

Because he could have quite easily lost by not doing it? Which would have cost him a lot career wise.

wow_junky wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

wow_junky wrote:All I'm saying is that in the biggest fight of Haye's career he didn't once put his chin at risk against a guy who isn't a massive hitter. In my opinion the fight was close and Haye wasn't sure he did enough to win - why didn't he take more risks if he knew the fight was that close?

The broken hand excuse is pretty rubbish when you consider Haye didn't fight much different to usual, potshotting + running...

Why should he put his chin at risk at all? That'd just be stupid.

Because he could have quite easily lost by not doing it? Which would have cost him a lot career wise.

But...he didn't.

BALTIMORA wrote:
But...he didn't.

Yep, but judging by Haye's reaction post-fight he didn't know if he'd won or not before the scores were announced. If he had upped his game he wouldn't have left any doubt

DAVE667 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:I can't recall him ever taking a heavy shot and NOT falling over.

Think that's fair to say about either of them.

One thing about Haye is that he's proven he can keep his head when hurt, not sure if Wlad can. But Haye hasn't fought a puncher like Wlad.

Whereas Wlad's already been in with a guy like Haye and fallen apart. He hasn't fought anyone like that since though...coincidence?

Like who?

I know you are unwilling to give Wlad an iota of credit DAVE667 but plenty of the guys he has been in with have hit as hard as Haye.

Sandrs was a southpaw. Haye is not. He struggled with the southpaw stance far more than Sanders speed.

The division is exactly loaded with Haye clones but the Chambers was considered one of the faster ones.

I dont know why are you determined to to follow Haye and try and represent him as this fraud, now with a fake personality to boot (dspite his extensive involvements in humanitarian work and politics for which hes ben recognised). His chin isnt great but hes been hit by guys who punch harder than what Haye has generally faced.

I would also refer to the Brewster, Sanders and Peter fights for times he has been hit by hard shots and not fallen over. It has usually taken more than a single punch to floor him and his vulnerabilty is that he lacks the defensive and survival skils to operate when hurt.

Wlad has been knocked down how many times? It's either 11 or 17, i can't remember

As dodgy as Haye's chin is i'd give the glass chin trophy award to Wlad

It's only because he's fought like a scared rabbit in the headlights since he's not had it exposed, that and no-one's been good enough to get past his jab.

Be interesting to see what Haye's first counter left down the chute does to be honest, because none of us can predict what will happen

coxy0001 wrote:Wlad has been knocked down how many times? It's either 11 or 17, i can't remember

As dodgy as Haye's chin is i'd give the glass chin trophy award to Wlad

It's only because he's fought like a scared rabbit in the headlights since he's not had it exposed, that and no-one's been good enough to get past his jab.

Be interesting to see what Haye's first counter left down the chute does to be honest, because none of us can predict what will happen

I think the overhead left is Hayes best chance to win. Its a weakness for Wlad.

Yep, but judging by Haye's reaction post-fight he didn't know if he'd won or not before the scores were announced. If he had upped his game he wouldn't have left any doubt
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Perhaps you could tell us what Valuev's body language indicated once the final bell had rung. Haye threw his arms in the air and celebrated. Valuev hung his head and looked defeated. The only reason Haye was unsure of the outcome was that the first scorecard read out gave the fight as a draw.


Manos,

Most are agreed that the best punch for defeating a southpaw is the straight right hand down the pipe. Now, when you consider that at that time, Wlad's basic M.O. was "jab, jab, right cross", and when you consider his physical advantages over Sanders, it would appear the opportunity was there for Wlad to dominate his opponent using the simplest of tactics. It wasn't the southpaw stance, it was the handspeed and (controversy alert) Wlad's total aversion to being hit that did for him.

Yes, most people don't take kindly to being hit in the face but, like Audley, Wlad goes into his shell when an opponent comes forward. Vitali seems to relish a scrap but Wlad isn't like that at all and, unfortunately for him, Haye also likes a scrap. Now, my belief is that if, and I do mean IF, Haye can take away Wlad's jab and start landing his own shots, Wlad will go into retreat and throw very little for fear of being countered.

If Haye can bob, weave, feint, draw leads and keep Wlad off balance, Wlad will start to have doubts about his jab (he doesn't throw it if he's not sure it will land) and once that happens, it's a matter of time before haye gets to him.

Said it before and I'll say it again, Wlad's jab (or lack of it) is the key.

DAVE667 wrote:Yep, but judging by Haye's reaction post-fight he didn't know if he'd won or not before the scores were announced. If he had upped his game he wouldn't have left any doubt
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Perhaps you could tell us what Valuev's body language indicated once the final bell had rung. Haye threw his arms in the air and celebrated. Valuev hung his head and looked defeated. The only reason Haye was unsure of the outcome was that the first scorecard read out gave the fight as a draw.


Manos,

Most are agreed that the best punch for defeating a southpaw is the straight right hand down the pipe. Now, when you consider that at that time, Wlad's basic M.O. was "jab, jab, right cross", and when you consider his physical advantages over Sanders, it would appear the opportunity was there for Wlad to dominate his opponent using the simplest of tactics. It wasn't the southpaw stance, it was the handspeed and (controversy alert) Wlad's total aversion to being hit that did for him.

Yes, most people don't take kindly to being hit in the face but, like Audley, Wlad goes into his shell when an opponent comes forward. Vitali seems to relish a scrap but Wlad isn't like that at all and, unfortunately for him, Haye also likes a scrap. Now, my belief is that if, and I do mean IF, Haye can take away Wlad's jab and start landing his own shots, Wlad will go into retreat and throw very little for fear of being countered.

If Haye can bob, weave, feint, draw leads and keep Wlad off balance, Wlad will start to have doubts about his jab (he doesn't throw it if he's not sure it will land) and once that happens, it's a matter of time before haye gets to him.

Said it before and I'll say it again, Wlad's jab (or lack of it) is the key.

No the reason he lost to Sanders was because he keeps his right by his side and when Sanders countered his jab he basically couldnt miss. When he throws at the jab, hes wide open and especially vunerable from a left counter. Basically Wlad is open and vunerable to Sanders best and most powerful punch.

Where does Haye like a scrap? He didnt throw a punch for two rounds against Harrison. Only really engaged when it became apparent Audley wasnt actually going to throw a punch. Against Valuev he ran. Ruiz he didnt scrap at all but focused on catching him coming in. Haye is not this toe to toe slugger who likes to brawl and scrap. You have been listening to his pr too much. Hes been fairly cautious at heavweight and goes out of his weight to avoid being hit.

Haye can definately win this fight but you are implying Wlad has "coincidentally" not fought someone like Haye. As far as I can remember there are very few like Haye. Chambers was considered one of the faster ones who he beat. And he has signed to fight Haye himself, not once, but twice now. So this idea he is avoiding anyone has to be just consigned to the garbage bin at this point.

Its a bit like Haye saying all Wlad does is fight fat Americans - does this mean Haye is a fat American or is he waffling as usual? In terms of top ranked guys faced there is no comparison between the two and thats even including Hayes cruiserweight reign where he fought about two cruisers that were considered in the top ten (one of which was rubbish).

I think if Haye wins, he wins by being patient and countering Wlads jab with overhand lefts. As long as Wlad feels he is winning the rounds though I dont think he will get impatient.

When he decided to open aginst Audley he went in all guns blazing and didn't stop throwing shots until his man was down. Wlad doesn't fight that way, he's a "softly softly catchee monkey" fighter.

I agree Haye needs to be patient and methodical but if he times those counters right and hurts Wlad, I think you'll see him go for broke. He can't afford to let Wlad regroup in much the same way if Wlad hurts Haye, he needs to get him out of there. Mormeck had Haye down and hurt but couldn't capitalise and Haye came back to get the win. He's bigger, stronger and much more experienced now so they'll know he's dangerous.

I can see a repeat of the Audley fight with a lot of caution early doors and then it will suddenly spring to life. When it does, I doubt it will last long!

Haye knew Audley wasn't going to hit him back though.

Wlad will be coming forward trying to establish his jab, Haye will be going backwards trying to get WK to walk onto something. IMO Haye has a good chance early doors, but the longer the fight goes the more it swings to Wlad.

Wlad coming forward establishing his jab?...aye, against fighters he knows won't hit him back...much like Audley v Haye.

In an ideal world, Wlad gets his jab going early but deep down Wlad will fear the counter and I think he'll be out of range with it. As nothing happens for two or more rounds, the crowd will get frustrated and Wlad will feel the pressure to perform more than Haye will.

This could be a stalemate and a bit of a stinker if Wlad stays out of range because I don't see Haye trying too hard to get inside until he's certain Wlad has gone into his shell.

Wlad comes forward trying to establish his jab, that's what he does in every fight. He's not going to go backwards against Haye.

So the man who STILL doesn't bring his left hand back properly after he throws the jab is going to march forward against a man who has the speed, timing and power to counter him to hell and back?

Don't think so, Wlad would LOVE to walk forward dominating behind the jab but he's not in with the calibre of opponent he's been used to of late and he will be cautious as a result.

Vitali is a different kettle of fish as he has the whiskers to be able to cope with any errors his lack of technique causes

So what do you think will happen? You think Haye is going to march down Wlad, Mike Tyson style, willing to take shots to land his own.

Yes Wlad will be cautious, but it is he who will be going forward as he always has, and Haye will be going backwards like he usually does.

And if we're talking about calibre of opposition, Haye is in for the big shock.