The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

by **George Carlin** Wed 04 Sep 2013, 11:46 am

I was talking with a friend of mine last night about the MacPhail Scholarship** - the annual grant by the Scottish Rugby Union to 2/3 players and 2 coaches of an 8-10 week trip to New Zealand to work with some of Canterbury RFU's finest.

"Yes, it sounds nice", he said, "but does it work? I mean, do the players kick on to become full internationals?"

The remainder of the conversation involved a lot of Guinness and is difficult to remember, but I thought that I would look into his question and the results were interesting*.

For Scotland, notable successes from this scholarship award are John Barclay, Roddy Grant, Grant Gilchrist, Jonny Gray and any of Harry Leonard/Gregor Hunter/Finn Russell - all of whom could well press on to be Scotland's fly half over the next decade.

What I wanted to ask was:

(a) Scotland/Glasgow/Edinburgh fans - has the MacPhail been successful and what can we conclude about the recipients who perhaps have not gone on to satisfy their potential?

(b) Other posters - does your national rugby union offer similar scholarship/secondment schemes to young players or coaches? What have been the results in recent years?

Thanks all.

*Recipients of the MacPhail, and where the players currently are, is set out below:

2005 – John Barclay (openside), 26

Currently: Plays for Scarlets; 41 Scotland caps

2006 – Graham Hogg (centre), 26

Currently: Plays for Hawick; represented Scotland at 7s, U18/19/20

2007 – Kevin Bryce (hooker), 24

Currently: Plays for Glasgow Warriors, represented Scotland at 7s, U18/19, International club

2008 – Roddy Grant (openside), 26

Currently: Plays for Edinburgh; 9 Scotland A caps

2009 - Lewis Niven (tight head), 25

Currently: Plays for Edinburgh; represented Scotland at Scotland A, U18/19/20

2010 - Finlay Gillies (hooker)

Currently: Plays for Glasgow Warriors, represented Scotland at 7s, U20

2011- Grant Gilchrist (lock), 23

Currently: Plays for Edinburgh; 3 Scotland caps

Harry Leonard (10/centre), 21

Currently: Plays for Edinburgh

George Turner (hooker), 21

Currently: Plays for Edinburgh; represented Scotland at U18/20

2012 - Jonny Gray (lock), 21

Currently: Plays for Glasgow Warriors; represented Scotland at U18/20 (captain)

Gregor Hunter (10), 23

Currently: Plays for Edinburgh; represented Scotland at U17/18/19

2013 - Finn Russell (10), 21

Currently: Plays for Glasgow Warriors; represented Scotland at U20

Alex Allan (loosehead), 21

Currently: Plays for Edinburgh; represented Scotland at U17/18/20

** For anyone who doesn't know, the Phail Scholarship, now in its ninth year, was established in memory of former Scotland hooker John Macphail, who died in 2004. Macphail was chief executive then chairman of the Edrington Group, a private company that is owned by the Robertson Trust. Macphail was also a trustee and chairman of the Robertson Trust, the company providing the scholarship funds.

From the applications made, two/three players and two coaches are selected to broaden their knowledge through the scholarship with a trip to New Zealand. There, they work with the Canterbury RFU in Christchurch and a number of the 47 clubs in the Canturbury province in addition to spending a lot of time with the region's super franchise, the Crusaders. Coaches at Premier Division clubs, age-grade and women’s international coaches and SRU performance department staff all have the chance to apply for the Scholarship.

The mentoring programme has been established over a few years with Canterbury RFU and looks excellent. Main mentors sharing their expertise are Todd Blackadder, the one-time All Black captain and Edinburgh Rugby player/head coach, ex-New Zealand prop Dave Hewett, who followed Blackadder to Edinburgh and then back to Canterbury, and Daryl Gibson, the one-time Glasgow Warriors centre who is now an assistant coach with the south island franchise.Gibson’s fellow former All Blacks centre Aaron Mauger and lock Norm Maxwell, together with two-time Super 12-winning hooker Matt Sexton, also undertake formal coaching and mentoring duties.

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 04 Sep 2013, 12:41 pm

Sounds great GC. The temptation would've been to send them to the Edinburgh of the South but Christchurch couldn't be a finer destination. Might go for the scholarship myself and save the money on airfares for heliskiing in Mt Cook National Park. Or does the scholarship extend to extracurricular activities?

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 04 Sep 2013, 12:52 pm

GC, a couple of corrections - I think that Kevin Bryce is a hooker rather than flanker, and Lewis Niven has 20+ odd appearances for Edinburgh.

It is interesting that the only name on that list that hasn't gone on to make anything of himself is Stuart Hogg's older bro, Graham - he was at the time touted as being a serious talent, but he seemed to find difficulty in applying himself and keeping the pounds off, from what I can remember. A real shame that he never quite made the grade. Other than that, you'd have to say that it has been a highly successful programme, altho in some ways you'd expect that, given the selection is among the seriously talented youngsters in each year

Braveheart

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 04 Sep 2013, 1:02 pm

Do they get to do the Undie 500?

by Majestic83 Thu 05 Sep 2013, 12:12 pm

Think Graham Hogg is off to play in Italy this season for one of the pro teams in their top league.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 05 Sep 2013, 12:57 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Do they get to do the Undie 500?

Explain, kia? I'm afraid to google it at work!

by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 05 Sep 2013, 1:05 pm

Yeah I was on my phone so didn't provide a link. Nothing to do with underwear. It was an engineering led annual event at Canterbury university where you had to buy a car for less than 500 NZ dollars but it had to be roadworthy. Then you painted it and had to make a 500 km + trip to Otago University in Dunedin. If your car made it and you weren't arrested for drink driving (supposedly you had to have a sober driver), you tried to drive up the steepest street in the world. Was shut down by the police a few years ago but I think it's back up.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 05 Sep 2013, 1:13 pm

kia, Sounds like a hoot! How many times did you do it?

by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 05 Sep 2013, 1:20 pm

Just the once. Bought a Ford Cortina and painted it orange and made it into the Dukes of Hazzard. Drew the short straw. I was Daisy. By the time I got to Dunedin I really thought I had sexier legs.

by **RDW** Thu 05 Sep 2013, 1:25 pm

I think it is a great thing to do, but I'm skeptical whether it will make that much of a difference. Let's face it, they give it to the best young players out there, so chances are they will have gone on to be pro's and play for Scotland anyway.

Saying that, I see no problem at all having our young players learn from some of the best players in world rugby.

by yappysnap Thu 05 Sep 2013, 1:39 pm

Didn't hurt Martin Johnsons career did it?

by funnyExiledScot Thu 05 Sep 2013, 1:46 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:It is interesting that the only name on that list that hasn't gone on to make anything of himself is Stuart Hogg's older bro, Graham - he was at the time touted as being a serious talent, but he seemed to find difficulty in applying himself and keeping the pounds off, from what I can remember. A real shame that he never quite made the grade.

I heard that he was close to becoming a top class player, but then some fans started making noises about shifting him to a completely different specialist position, and as a result he just never developed properly as a player in any one position and missed out on becoming a great player.

Sorry, was it not Stuart we were supposed to be talking about.......

p.s. I like the idea of the MacPhail Scholarship, and we seem to be getting better at who we send out there.

by **RDW** Thu 05 Sep 2013, 1:57 pm

Graham Hogg is the same age as me and I played against him a lot from youth level up to under 18s. He was built like a prop but was often the fastest guy on the pitch which made him a very good player. We regularly got humped by Hawick or the borders under 16 / under 18 district team and he was usually the one running in the tries.

Like Fraser Harkness though I think his natural body shape isn't made for making the step up to pro rugby and he maybe had other shortcomings that were shown up when he was playing against people of similar ability. He is a regular in a Prem 1 team though so he is still a good player.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 05 Sep 2013, 2:02 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Graham Hogg is the same age as me and I played against him a lot from youth level up to under 18s. He was built like a prop but was often the fastest guy on the pitch which made him a very good player. We regularly got humped by Hawick or the borders under 16 / under 18 district team and he was usually the one running in the tries.

Like Fraser Harkness though I think his natural body shape isn't made for making the step up to pro rugby and he maybe had other shortcomings that were shown up when he was playing against people of similar ability. He is a regular in a Prem 1 team though so he is still a good player.

I get the feeling you may actually be quite good at rugby.

I thought this forum was only supposed to be for arm chair critics like me!!

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 05 Sep 2013, 2:21 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Graham Hogg is the same age as me and I played against him a lot from youth level up to under 18s. He was built like a prop but was often the fastest guy on the pitch which made him a very good player. We regularly got humped by Hawick or the borders under 16 / under 18 district team and he was usually the one running in the tries.

Like Fraser Harkness though I think his natural body shape isn't made for making the step up to pro rugby and he maybe had other shortcomings that were shown up when he was playing against people of similar ability. He is a regular in a Prem 1 team though so he is still a good player.
I get the feeling you may actually be quite good at rugby.

I thought this forum was only supposed to be for arm chair ~~critics~~ cynics like me!!

Wrong 'c' word, but I fixed it for you - free of charge - would that happen in an ~~Independent~~ Separate Scotland?!

by butterfingers Thu 05 Sep 2013, 2:27 pm

I don't particularly like the idea of this scholarship, it is noble and all but it does send a clear and distinct message to players and coaches of Scotland and NZ:

'We are so clearly inferior can you mentor our best and brightest for a little while please?'

If Scotland truly wants to be a big player on the world stage they have to think and act accordingly, for every players/coach they send to NZ they could aid 20 coaches and 50 players home based in their development!

by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 05 Sep 2013, 2:35 pm

Think bigger butterfingers. In the NZ summer, a NZ player gets sent over to the Scottish winter to play. Chip away at them one at a time...

by funnyExiledScot Thu 05 Sep 2013, 2:37 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Graham Hogg is the same age as me and I played against him a lot from youth level up to under 18s. He was built like a prop but was often the fastest guy on the pitch which made him a very good player. We regularly got humped by Hawick or the borders under 16 / under 18 district team and he was usually the one running in the tries.

Like Fraser Harkness though I think his natural body shape isn't made for making the step up to pro rugby and he maybe had other shortcomings that were shown up when he was playing against people of similar ability. He is a regular in a Prem 1 team though so he is still a good player.
I get the feeling you may actually be quite good at rugby.

I thought this forum was only supposed to be for arm chair ~~critics~~ cynics like me!!
Wrong 'c' word, but I fixed it for you - free of charge - would that happen in an ~~Independent~~ Separate Scotland?!

Nothing will be free of charge in a "Separate Scotland". They'll need to levy a "stupidity tax" to pay for everything......

I suppose I am a cynic, but I still maintain that you need a different "c" word for Alex Salmond......

by butterfingers Thu 05 Sep 2013, 2:38 pm

ha ha ha ha ha! I think they just call it weather in Scotland, I am yet to visit Scotland and see anything but winter weather!

by **RDW** Thu 05 Sep 2013, 3:39 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Graham Hogg is the same age as me and I played against him a lot from youth level up to under 18s. He was built like a prop but was often the fastest guy on the pitch which made him a very good player. We regularly got humped by Hawick or the borders under 16 / under 18 district team and he was usually the one running in the tries.

Like Fraser Harkness though I think his natural body shape isn't made for making the step up to pro rugby and he maybe had other shortcomings that were shown up when he was playing against people of similar ability. He is a regular in a Prem 1 team though so he is still a good player.
I get the feeling you may actually be quite good at rugby.

I thought this forum was only supposed to be for arm chair critics like me!!

Ha, the good thing about online forums is that I could say whatever I wanted and no one would be any wiser! Very Happy

In reality I was fairly decent as a teenager, but not so much now! Played for Edinburgh Under 16 and was selected for the under 18 training squad but buggered my ankle just before and never go the chance to get picked. Crying or Very sad

To be fair the main reason was because I was always bigger than everyone else when I was younger but now that everyone is bigger than me I have been found out completely!

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 05 Sep 2013, 3:58 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Graham Hogg is the same age as me and I played against him a lot from youth level up to under 18s. He was built like a prop but was often the fastest guy on the pitch which made him a very good player. We regularly got humped by Hawick or the borders under 16 / under 18 district team and he was usually the one running in the tries.

Like Fraser Harkness though I think his natural body shape isn't made for making the step up to pro rugby and he maybe had other shortcomings that were shown up when he was playing against people of similar ability. He is a regular in a Prem 1 team though so he is still a good player.
I get the feeling you may actually be quite good at rugby.

I thought this forum was only supposed to be for arm chair critics like me!!
Ha, the good thing about online forums is that I could say whatever I wanted and no one would be any wiser!

In reality I was fairly decent as a teenager, but not so much now! Played for Edinburgh Under 16 and was selected for the under 18 training squad but knackered my ankle just before and never go the chance to get picked.

To be fair the main reason was because I was always bigger than everyone else when I was younger but now that everyone is bigger than me I have been found out completely!

You should change your name to R-Dog.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 05 Sep 2013, 4:04 pm

In terms of past playing, I got shipped all across the front row, bit like Smit.

Started off in mini's as a hooker but at Secondry school it was quickly established my accuracy at the lineout was somewhat poor. Truth be told I couldn't hit water if I fell out a boat. It didn't seem to hamper Best or Ford's developments as hookers, maybe my coach wasn't as forgiving as their coaches.

I eventually settled at tighthead but was able to play loosie in dire circumstances, played at loosehead mostly for the thirds where the ability to hold a drink was prized more than the ability to hold up a scrum.

Tighthead was my favourite position though.

by fa0019 Thu 05 Sep 2013, 4:53 pm

The thing is, how much can they learn in 10 weeks. I guess thats half a decent rugby season so potentially a lot.

Its difficult when kids should go and how much it will impact their school work but wouldn't a year be better?

I'm surprised no organisation (either school/club or union) has started to drop kids at Gray College in Bloemfontein. Surely the best school team in the world and the producer of more genuine talent then anyone else. Its a dual language school so it wouldn't be a problem for kids.

Bismarck & Jannnie DP, Adriaan Strauss, Coenie Oosthuizen, Flip van der Merwe, Heinrich Brussow, Frans Steyn, Ruan Pienaar and thats just from the last few years. There are countless more playing SR and HC.

The overall school fees and board for 1 year is 40,000 rand. Thats less the £3K. Add a few bits for flights and costs so what £5K per student per year. That's insane for the best rugby education in world rugby.... they are obviously doing something right.

by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 05 Sep 2013, 5:02 pm

Christchurch Boys High is a state school and you could have Warrick Taylor teaching you. Plenty of other NZ schools that have illustrious ABs playing but many of those are private and they're not in Canterbury. Whistle

Best rugby education in world rugby is picking up a ball and making it become a part of you. You just need to buy a ball for that...

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 05 Sep 2013, 5:55 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Christchurch Boys High is a state school and you could have Warrick Taylor teaching you. Plenty of other NZ schools that have illustrious ABs playing but many of those are private and they're not in Canterbury.

Best rugby education in world rugby is picking up a ball and making it become a part of you. You just need to buy a ball for that...

by Sponsored content

The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships

Re: The MacPhail & other rugby scholarships