Fought in the Amateurs and then Pros

One of the fights i'm really looking forward to is the the match up between Groves and DeGale.
They fought in the amateurs in which Groves won but DeGale has since gone on to win Olympic Gold and is the favourite for there bout in the pros. I also think this history between them makes the fight more interesting.


Is it just down to a fighter improving more than his opponent or is it sometimes there games are more sutied to the amateurs and pros.

I remember Oscar saying when he was boxing as a youngster and he use to win fights all over the place, but one person he feared and that was Shane Mosley and Shane use to beat him up. Well Shane was about 12 and Oscar was 10 at the time.

Amir Khan has beat WBC welterweight champ Victor Ortiz in the amateurs and they could be on a colision course to face each other in the pros as well, the that victory be reversed?

What other cases of fighters that have fought in the amateur and have reversed the decision in the pros?

Or what other boxers that are out there that have faced each other in the amateurs but still have not faced other in the pros and would you see those fights going?

Calderon completely outclassed Cotto in the amateur but I go a feeling that Cotto would win now.

Joe Frazier lost to Buster Mathis in the trials for the 1964 Olympics. Mathis then injured his hand, giving Frazier a place, and Joe duly came back with gold.

Following Ali's enforced retirement Frazier and Mathis met for the New York version of the heavyweight title. Although Mathis boxed brilliantly at times, Frazier ground him down and knocked him out in eleven.

HumanWindmill wrote:Joe Frazier lost to Buster Mathis in the trials for the 1964 Olympics. Mathis then injured his hand, giving Frazier a place, and Joe duly came back with gold.

Following Ali's enforced retirement Frazier and Mathis met for the New York version of the heavyweight title. Although Mathis boxed brilliantly at times, Frazier ground him down and knocked him out in eleven.

A case of Frazier showing great improvement or just one was the better amateur fighter and the other the better pro fighter?

D4thincarnation wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:Joe Frazier lost to Buster Mathis in the trials for the 1964 Olympics. Mathis then injured his hand, giving Frazier a place, and Joe duly came back with gold.

Following Ali's enforced retirement Frazier and Mathis met for the New York version of the heavyweight title. Although Mathis boxed brilliantly at times, Frazier ground him down and knocked him out in eleven.

A case of Frazier showing great improvement or just one was the better amateur fighter and the other the better pro fighter?

I'm guessing the latter, D4.

Frazier was a notoriously slow starter, so the amateur ranks wouldn't have been his best stage. Also, Frazier hadn't yet been converted to the bobbing and weaving swarmer that we know and love. As late as the first Bonavena fight he was still working off his jab and was much more upright. Mathis, despite being the most unathletic of men, was a superb boxer and a wonderful mover.

Joe nailed him, though.

Didn't Tyson lose to Henry Tilman in the olympic trials & then ko him in a round in the pros?

I also think some guys are made for the amateurs & some the pros, scoring seems to have a different criteria as well. On the other hand Calzaghe had a great amateur career, 3 times aba champ at 3 weights I think.

Bowe and Lewis. Could have been interesting if they met as pros.

azania wrote:Bowe and Lewis. Could have been interesting if they met as pros.

I would fancy Lewis to stop him, and quite handily. If Bowe can get outboxed by Golata then Lewis will not have any real issues with him. He dumped his belt in the bin the avoid him.

audley harrison is proof that a good amatuer career doesnt necessarly flow over to the pros

Lewis lost to Tyrell Biggs in the amateurs but beat him as a pro

Serafim Todorov didn't amount to much as a pro. Retired 5-1. Last person to beat Mr Mayweather. Interesting how careers can differ.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:Bowe and Lewis. Could have been interesting if they met as pros.

I would fancy Lewis to stop him, and quite handily. If Bowe can get outboxed by Golata then Lewis will not have any real issues with him. He dumped his belt in the bin the avoid him.

The same Lewis who was being outboxed by Bruno of all people, who squeaked out a decision over a faded Holyfield who was beaten twice (ehen unbeaten and in his prime) by Bowe?

BALTIMORA wrote:Serafim Todorov didn't amount to much as a pro. Retired 5-1. Last person to beat Mr Mayweather. Interesting how careers can differ.

Next to the Roy Jones loss, that was the biggest robbery in amateur boxing.

azania wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Serafim Todorov didn't amount to much as a pro. Retired 5-1. Last person to beat Mr Mayweather. Interesting how careers can differ.

Next to the Roy Jones loss, that was the biggest robbery in amateur boxing.

Weird isn't it how things turn out?

BALTIMORA wrote:

azania wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Serafim Todorov didn't amount to much as a pro. Retired 5-1. Last person to beat Mr Mayweather. Interesting how careers can differ.

Next to the Roy Jones loss, that was the biggest robbery in amateur boxing.

Weird isn't it how things turn out?

Divine justice. What happened to that Korean who 'beat' Jones?

Riddick Bowe lost to Jorge Luiz Gonzalez as an amateur.
Battered him as pro.

Miguel Cotto was beaten by Mohamed Abdulaev as an amateur.
Broke him down as a pro.

DeGale does the same to Groves imo.

Riddick Bowe lost to Jorge Luiz Gonzalez as an amateur.
Battered him as pro
.........................................
Lennox destroyed Bowe as an amateur, and would of done the same as a pro but Bowe put the belt where his mouth usually talked along the lines of GARBAGE!

Steven_89 wrote:Riddick Bowe lost to Jorge Luiz Gonzalez as an amateur.
Battered him as pro
.........................................
Lennox destroyed Bowe as an amateur, and would of done the same as a pro but Bowe put the belt where his mouth usually talked along the lines of GARBAGE!

I would actually have started Bowe as favourite if they had fought back then.
Lewis wasnt the finished article back then, getting outjabbed by Bruno and outworked by Mercer, while Bowe was beating a prime Holyfield.

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:Bowe and Lewis. Could have been interesting if they met as pros.

I would fancy Lewis to stop him, and quite handily. If Bowe can get outboxed by Golata then Lewis will not have any real issues with him. He dumped his belt in the bin the avoid him.

The same Lewis who was being outboxed by Bruno of all people, who squeaked out a decision over a faded Holyfield who was beaten twice (ehen unbeaten and in his prime) by Bowe?

Bowe was being outboxed by Golata and only lost due to a moment of madness in both fights...

Bowe, much like Tyson, is sometimes portrayed as an ubeatable figure. He knew he couldnt beat Lewis and opted to give p the HW championship to avoid the fight. Speaks volumes.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:Bowe and Lewis. Could have been interesting if they met as pros.

I would fancy Lewis to stop him, and quite handily. If Bowe can get outboxed by Golata then Lewis will not have any real issues with him. He dumped his belt in the bin the avoid him.

The same Lewis who was being outboxed by Bruno of all people, who squeaked out a decision over a faded Holyfield who was beaten twice (ehen unbeaten and in his prime) by Bowe?

Bowe was being outboxed by Golata and only lost due to a moment of madness in both fights...

Bowe, much like Tyson, is sometimes portrayed as an ubeatable figure. He knew he couldnt beat Lewis and opted to give p the HW championship to avoid the fight. Speaks volumes.

Bowe, like Tyson, had a very short prime but it shouldnt be ignored that he was an immense boxer during this period.

Golota was an under-rated fighter who also happened to be mentally unstable, causing him to suffer numerous breakdowns during his fights. At his best, he was a match for anyone, as Bowe would testify. At his worst, he would simply freeze and would be no better than Audley Harrison (as Lewis and Brewster would discover).

It could also be argued that Lewis is the one who is often potrayed as the unbeatable figure, who only struggled when he came...ahem...unprepared

azania wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

azania wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Serafim Todorov didn't amount to much as a pro. Retired 5-1. Last person to beat Mr Mayweather. Interesting how careers can differ.

Next to the Roy Jones loss, that was the biggest robbery in amateur boxing.

Weird isn't it how things turn out?

Divine justice. What happened to that Korean who 'beat' Jones?

Had to Google it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Si-Hun

Looks like he retired as an amateur.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:Bowe and Lewis. Could have been interesting if they met as pros.

I would fancy Lewis to stop him, and quite handily. If Bowe can get outboxed by Golata then Lewis will not have any real issues with him. He dumped his belt in the bin the avoid him.

The same Lewis who was being outboxed by Bruno of all people, who squeaked out a decision over a faded Holyfield who was beaten twice (ehen unbeaten and in his prime) by Bowe?

Bowe was being outboxed by Golata and only lost due to a moment of madness in both fights...

Bowe, much like Tyson, is sometimes portrayed as an ubeatable figure. He knew he couldnt beat Lewis and opted to give p the HW championship to avoid the fight. Speaks volumes.

I never had Bowe as an unbeatable figure by virtue of the fact that Holy beat him. But I believe that the Bowe who beat Holy in their first fight would handle Lewis quite easily.

Just a pity he didnt have full confidence in his ability and loved the contents of a fridge far too much.

BALTIMORA wrote:

azania wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:

azania wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Serafim Todorov didn't amount to much as a pro. Retired 5-1. Last person to beat Mr Mayweather. Interesting how careers can differ.

Next to the Roy Jones loss, that was the biggest robbery in amateur boxing.

Weird isn't it how things turn out?

Divine justice. What happened to that Korean who 'beat' Jones?

Had to Google it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Si-Hun

Looks like he retired as an amateur.

Cheers. I doubt he would have made much waves as a pro.

What, not even with his amateur pedigree..?

BALTIMORA wrote:What, not even with his amateur pedigree..?

He had a poor style for a pro. Plus that gold was tainted and he knew it. I read somewhere that he was gifted the quarters also.

azania wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:What, not even with his amateur pedigree..?

He had a poor style for a pro. Plus that gold was tainted and he knew it. I read somewhere that he was gifted the quarters also.

I was being sarcastic...

BALTIMORA wrote:

azania wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:What, not even with his amateur pedigree..?

He had a poor style for a pro. Plus that gold was tainted and he knew it. I read somewhere that he was gifted the quarters also.

I was being sarcastic...

Damn. Humour sometimes doesn't translate well on this medium.

No, that is rather unfortunate at times.

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:Bowe and Lewis. Could have been interesting if they met as pros.

I would fancy Lewis to stop him, and quite handily. If Bowe can get outboxed by Golata then Lewis will not have any real issues with him. He dumped his belt in the bin the avoid him.

The same Lewis who was being outboxed by Bruno of all people, who squeaked out a decision over a faded Holyfield who was beaten twice (ehen unbeaten and in his prime) by Bowe?

Bowe was being outboxed by Golata and only lost due to a moment of madness in both fights...

Bowe, much like Tyson, is sometimes portrayed as an ubeatable figure. He knew he couldnt beat Lewis and opted to give p the HW championship to avoid the fight. Speaks volumes.

I never had Bowe as an unbeatable figure by virtue of the fact that Holy beat him. But I believe that the Bowe who beat Holy in their first fight would handle Lewis quite easily.

Just a pity he didnt have full confidence in his ability and loved the contents of a fridge far too much.

Pity Bowe didn't share your belief.

Thoughts here:

Lewis beats Bowe for me, regardless of when they met. Earlier on it'd have been close, but a more experienced Lewis is a far superior fighter to anything Bowe ever was in my opinion.

That olympics robbery of Jones still disgusts me to this day, I am not sure how any judge had the audacity to score that to the Korean, it was truly unbelievable. Rarely have I seen somebody so clowned in a boxing ring.

sohotnot wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

azania wrote:Bowe and Lewis. Could have been interesting if they met as pros.

I would fancy Lewis to stop him, and quite handily. If Bowe can get outboxed by Golata then Lewis will not have any real issues with him. He dumped his belt in the bin the avoid him.

The same Lewis who was being outboxed by Bruno of all people, who squeaked out a decision over a faded Holyfield who was beaten twice (ehen unbeaten and in his prime) by Bowe?

Bowe was being outboxed by Golata and only lost due to a moment of madness in both fights...

Bowe, much like Tyson, is sometimes portrayed as an ubeatable figure. He knew he couldnt beat Lewis and opted to give p the HW championship to avoid the fight. Speaks volumes.

I never had Bowe as an unbeatable figure by virtue of the fact that Holy beat him. But I believe that the Bowe who beat Holy in their first fight would handle Lewis quite easily.

Just a pity he didnt have full confidence in his ability and loved the contents of a fridge far too much.

Pity Bowe didn't share your belief.

Yep. That's what I said above.