Tuesday qualifiers

First topic message reminder :

Macedonia vs Scotland (7:30)
Wales vs Serbia (7:45)
Ukraine vs England (7:45)
Austria vs ROI (7:45)

As a welsh man i'm not holding out for too much against Serbia. We're without joniesta and williams so it means there's even more pressure on Ramsey to pull something out the bag again. Hopefully Coleman's team selection and tactics improve and we're more positive against Serbia. If we'd gone for it we would've won in Macedonia. Fingers crossed bale get's 15 mins at least.

Tough games for England and ROI, I expect England to get a point at least or maybe sneak a win.

Really awful, not sure anybody looked good in that match. Gary Cahill was alright I suppose.

Well I'm sure the fan boys will declare that as a job well done. In contrast it is yet another performance which perfectly defines our position in the International ranks.

Mediocre and disjointed...it is games like this which shape our team for when we come up against the likes of Spain & Germany...

If we cannot stamp our authority and loosen the reigns offensively against European teams like Poland, Ukraine and Montenengro then how do we expect to beat the likes of Holland, Spain, Brazil, Germany come major tournaments....we were chasing shadows for large parts of that match...I would hate to see us against any major outfit in a serious match....we look just as poor and devoid of ideas as we did against Italy last year...

There has been no transformation in his tenure so far and I expect Hodgsons to continue in this vein. Very average, slightly tough to beat but other than nothing else.

acutely embarrassing, but that's what you get with a manager who's completely clueless, players picked repeatedly despite showing many times they aren't good enough, and the rare few who are good enough don't really want to be there.

Appalling that England should be clinging on for a draw in Ukraine.

Hart had a good game, Lambert tried hard within his limitations and with the scraps he had to feed off. Defense was OK-ish apart from Walker. That's about it. Walcott awful, Gerrard awful, Lampard invisible, Wlishere couldn't cope with the physicality and spent his time giving the ball away, Milner we know doesn't add anything at all.

It's quite a concern when England miss Danny Welbeck. Even Danny Welbeck's mum wouldn't miss him but England do.

slightly tough to beat to almost impossible but yes its still shocking..

England settled for a point. Ukraine, rather more surprisingly, settled for a point.

England were fantastically organised once again. Gary Cahill was immense, the Jag was solid, Cole was reliable, and even Walker wasn't too bad after an early wobble. Very difficult to beat are England, very difficult.

As far as creativity went, it probably went out the window when Walcott got clattered. Hodgson very happy for settle for a point, which was probably confirmed when he didn't bring Defoe on.

2 wins next month is all that's needed - fingers crossed England will be back to full strength!

Oh dear, and this thread is full of knee-jerkers!

Just to point out though Germany had a shocker against faroe islands. Ended up winning three nil but needed a red card for the minnows and the resulting penalty to pull clear

Crimey wrote:Really awful, not sure anybody looked good in that match. Gary Cahill was alright I suppose.

true that, Cahill played well. Thought Hart commanded his area better than he has been recently. But it's just all so depressing, I mean UKRAINE FFS!!! Hardly a footballing powerhouse, yet we all knew before the game how it was going to pan out... Unfortunately that's what you get when you decide a second-rate, overly conservative manager should be in charge...

when defoe come on against palace in the opening game if the season he made everyone including the tottenham players look average!

he is a very talented yet underused player

Hero wrote:It's quite a concern when England miss Danny Welbeck. Even Danny Welbeck's mum wouldn't miss him but England do.

I don't. Think we had enough guys on the pitch today who didn't seem to know how to control a pass. Don't think one more would have changed much.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Crimey wrote:Really awful, not sure anybody looked good in that match. Gary Cahill was alright I suppose.

true that, Cahill played well. Thought Hart commanded his area better than he has been recently. But it's just all so depressing, I mean UKRAINE FFS!!! Hardly a footballing powerhouse, yet we all knew before the game how it was going to pan out... Unfortunately that's what you get when you decide a second-rate, overly conservative manager should be in charge...

Roy Hodgson second-rate?    

Jesus christ alive what did we expect considering half the bloody team is injured or suspended. Missed Rooney/Sturridge/Welbeck massively tonight

That's the thing mystiroakey,

I said when Hodgson got the job that his tactics are from the pre-historic age of international football! They make us tough to beat for teams with limited ideas...but they will not win us major competitions! In fact they won't even get us close...the likes of Holland, Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Spain will always find a way to get past us because they will look for the win and have the technique to open up the defence regardless of how tough it is.

mystiroakey wrote:That camera is in a rubbish place- something keeps flapping about underneath it!!

On the contrary - could have done with that camera being a couple of feet lower.  That would have greatly improved the view of the second half?

It's embarrassing that we have to go to Ukraine and Montenegro and hang on for a point.
Quite happily scrap international breaks

Duty281 wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Crimey wrote:Really awful, not sure anybody looked good in that match. Gary Cahill was alright I suppose.

true that, Cahill played well. Thought Hart commanded his area better than he has been recently. But it's just all so depressing, I mean UKRAINE FFS!!! Hardly a footballing powerhouse, yet we all knew before the game how it was going to pan out... Unfortunately that's what you get when you decide a second-rate, overly conservative manager should be in charge...

Roy Hodgson second-rate?    

sorry, would third-rate have been more accurate? Yes he did OK with Fulham, but with Liverpool he was woefully inadequate, and I've seen little to suggest he'll ever do better with England.

England were poor. Basic first touch was woeful, laying the ball off with no pace, then passing the ball with too much pace. Wilshere to lightweight to boss the midfield. Nervous and zero composure on the ball....

owen10ozzy wrote:That's the thing mystiroakey,

I said when Hodgson got the job that his tactics are from the pre-historic age of international football! They make us tough to beat for teams with limited ideas...but they will not win us major competitions! In fact they won't even get us close...the likes of Holland, Germany, Argentina, Brazil, Spain will always find a way to get past us because they will look for the win and have the technique to open up the defence regardless of how tough it is.

Perhaps we think we can grind out 0-0s v these teams and go to penalties, because that always works in our favour.

owen the fact is 5 wins 3 draws and 1 loss gives you more points that 4 wins and 4 draws!

Olly wrote:Jesus christ alive what did we expect considering half the bloody team is injured or suspended. Missed Rooney/Sturridge/Welbeck massively tonight

I expected us to win this game on the counter, but Ukraine didn't really go for it. Massively missed Rooney tonight.

Unbeaten. Joint second highest scorers in Europe. Third best defence in Europe. Top of the group.

Who am I talking about? England.

Olly wrote:Jesus christ alive what did we expect considering half the bloody team is injured or suspended. Missed Rooney/Sturridge/Welbeck massively tonight

They're all forwards. Based on the way England played tonight not convinced any of them would have done a much better job than Lambert did, very very few strikers in the world can shine when they're just getting long balls pumped to them all day (maybe Drogba in his prime, can't think of any others)

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Crimey wrote:Really awful, not sure anybody looked good in that match. Gary Cahill was alright I suppose.

true that, Cahill played well. Thought Hart commanded his area better than he has been recently. But it's just all so depressing, I mean UKRAINE FFS!!! Hardly a footballing powerhouse, yet we all knew before the game how it was going to pan out... Unfortunately that's what you get when you decide a second-rate, overly conservative manager should be in charge...

Roy Hodgson second-rate?    

sorry, would third-rate have been more accurate? Yes he did OK with Fulham, but with Liverpool he was woefully inadequate, and I've seen little to suggest he'll ever do better with England.

No first-rate would have been better.

Roll on the proper football at the weekend.

When we watch england we should all pray for an early goal against us. Then we start playing football!!!

until we draw level that is anyway!!

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Olly wrote:Jesus christ alive what did we expect considering half the bloody team is injured or suspended. Missed Rooney/Sturridge/Welbeck massively tonight

They're all forwards. Based on the way England played tonight not convinced any of them would have done a much better job than Lambert did, very very few strikers in the world can shine when they're just getting long balls pumped to them all day (maybe Drogba in his prime, can't think of any others)

Expect Rooney is a lot more experienced, and a lot more talented. Would have made a massive difference. As would Welbeck on the left.

It was a criticism of Hodgson when he was Liverpool manager that he showed too much respect to smaller sides and played too defensively against them.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Olly wrote:Jesus christ alive what did we expect considering half the bloody team is injured or suspended. Missed Rooney/Sturridge/Welbeck massively tonight

They're all forwards. Based on the way England played tonight not convinced any of them would have done a much better job than Lambert did, very very few strikers in the world can shine when they're just getting long balls pumped to them all day (maybe Drogba in his prime, can't think of any others)

The complete lack of movement up top/ability to not be able to control a ball (Walcott/Young) would have been a lot LOT better with those three. That you cannot deny

Duty281 wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Olly wrote:Jesus christ alive what did we expect considering half the bloody team is injured or suspended. Missed Rooney/Sturridge/Welbeck massively tonight

They're all forwards. Based on the way England played tonight not convinced any of them would have done a much better job than Lambert did, very very few strikers in the world can shine when they're just getting long balls pumped to them all day (maybe Drogba in his prime, can't think of any others)

Expect Rooney is a lot more experienced, and a lot more talented. Would have made a massive difference. As would Welbeck on the left.

not convinced. Given how England played (the gamplan) don't think Rooney would have added much. As for Welbeck on the left, England's continued inability to find a left-sided midfielder still astounds me.

well i thought that midfield was shocking tonight- with rooney in he would have shored that up and been able to provide walcott much better final balls. wilshire over hit every one.. walcott played really well but was let down tonight

Hodgson is woefully out of his depth and Duty the way you stand up for the england side is crinchworthy and embarrassing, get your head out of the clouds and see the reality. We're average and have been for years, if we couldn't achieve anything with a star studded team like in 2004 and 2006 this lot stand very little chance.

btw zaha is a very versatile winger- can play on both sides well. MANU start playing him- we need him for england

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Olly wrote:Jesus christ alive what did we expect considering half the bloody team is injured or suspended. Missed Rooney/Sturridge/Welbeck massively tonight

They're all forwards. Based on the way England played tonight not convinced any of them would have done a much better job than Lambert did, very very few strikers in the world can shine when they're just getting long balls pumped to them all day (maybe Drogba in his prime, can't think of any others)

Expect Rooney is a lot more experienced, and a lot more talented. Would have made a massive difference. As would Welbeck on the left.

not convinced. Given how England played (the gamplan) don't think Rooney would have added much. As for Welbeck on the left, England's continued inability to find a left-sided midfielder still astounds me.

Perhaps the gameplan would have been more positive, if we had our best attacking players available? You know, Rooney may have played just behind Sturridge/Carroll, with Welbeck on the left. And perhaps Walcott would have been given more license to bomb forward if Glen Johnson was the right-back, not Kyle Walker.

Hodgson gets it right again. England top of the group and unbeaten. No one will remember this game when England are at the world cup next summer.

Olly wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Olly wrote:Jesus christ alive what did we expect considering half the bloody team is injured or suspended. Missed Rooney/Sturridge/Welbeck massively tonight

They're all forwards. Based on the way England played tonight not convinced any of them would have done a much better job than Lambert did, very very few strikers in the world can shine when they're just getting long balls pumped to them all day (maybe Drogba in his prime, can't think of any others)

The complete lack of movement up top/ability to not be able to control a ball (Walcott/Young) would have been a lot LOT better with those three. That you cannot deny

I'm not sure Welbeck's ball control is all that... They may have made a difference, but once more when your tactic is to thwack the ball long and hope for the best, Rooney up front won't help that much (heck, having Messi up front wouldn't). You could argue that had those three been available England's tactics might have been different, but I don't really think so (if England wanted attacking tactics they wouldn't have picked Milner).

Welbeck is crap also

mystiroakey wrote:well i thought that midfield was shocking tonight- with rooney in he would have shored that up and been able to provide walcott much better final balls. wilshire over hit every one.. walcott played really well but was let down tonight

you think so? I thought he was awful, hardly made one pass all night.

Just to give you some perspective on those stats Duty:

Of our 25 goals ...22 have come against Moldova and San Marino! So we have scored 3 goals in our other 4 games!

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:Hodgson is woefully out of his depth and Duty the way you stand up for the england side is crinchworthy and embarrassing, get your head out of the clouds and see the reality. We're average and have been for years, if we couldn't achieve anything with a star studded team like in 2004 and 2006 this lot stand very little chance.

12 competitive games, hasn't lost a single one yet.

And this star-studded team of 2006 you allude to, is that the one that lost 4-1 to Denmark, and 1-0 to Northern Ireland? Interesting.

What's Carrick got to do to get a game. Here is a guy who England are crying out for. Someone who will just sit and keep possession and keep the tempo high, what you need in international football. What's england's loss is utd's gain. Gave us a fair few more years out of Scholes and it'll probably be the same for Carrick.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:well i thought that midfield was shocking tonight- with rooney in he would have shored that up and been able to provide walcott much better final balls. wilshire over hit every one.. walcott played really well but was let down tonight

you think so? I thought he was awful, hardly made one pass all night.

I'd have to agree with this. Walcott was dreadful

Liam wrote:What's Carrick got to do to get a game. Here is a guy who England are crying out for. Someone who will just sit and keep possession and keep the tempo high, what you need in international football. What's england's loss is utd's gain. Gave us a fair few more years out of Scholes and it'll probably be the same for Carrick.

Well if he hadn't played so woefully against Poland and Montenegro, he may of played in this one.

Welbeck is an immeasurably better player than Milner and as someone who watches him every week is ball control is actually very good it's one of his main assets. His ability to keep hold of the ball in tight situations is something we lacked tonight, call me biased but Carrick, Rooney, Welbeck and Sturridge gives the team a lot more purpose.

walcott was the only threat we had first half- and kept making the runs but time and time again wilshire couldn't pick him out.

football isn't just about being on the ball- he got into at least 6 good positions first half.

I dont really want to talk about the second half tbh it was just a mess.

Duty281 wrote:

Olly wrote:Jesus christ alive what did we expect considering half the bloody team is injured or suspended. Missed Rooney/Sturridge/Welbeck massively tonight

I expected us to win this game on the counter, but Ukraine didn't really go for it. Massively missed Rooney tonight.

Unbeaten. Joint second highest scorers in Europe. Third best defence in Europe. Top of the group.

Who am I talking about? England.

You could be a spin doctor for the FA!
13 of those 25 goals were against San Marino, 9 against Moldova. In the other 4 games against mediocre teams they've scored 3 goals.

Owen beat me to it!

Duty281 wrote:

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:Hodgson is woefully out of his depth and Duty the way you stand up for the england side is crinchworthy and embarrassing, get your head out of the clouds and see the reality. We're average and have been for years, if we couldn't achieve anything with a star studded team like in 2004 and 2006 this lot stand very little chance.

12 competitive games, hasn't lost a single one yet.

And this star-studded team of 2006 you allude to, is that the one that lost 4-1 to Denmark, and 1-0 to Northern Ireland? Interesting.

Sorry but I can't take your opinion seriously, if scraping to draws against sub par opposition is a success then you have very low standards, we'll get nowhere if we don't set out to win and not draw.

Spoiler:

I'd agree with all of that.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:well i thought that midfield was shocking tonight- with rooney in he would have shored that up and been able to provide walcott much better final balls. wilshire over hit every one.. walcott played really well but was let down tonight

you think so? I thought he was awful, hardly made one pass all night.

I wondered if he thought had a yellow kit on as he was excellent at passing to them.

Hero wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Olly wrote:Jesus christ alive what did we expect considering half the bloody team is injured or suspended. Missed Rooney/Sturridge/Welbeck massively tonight

I expected us to win this game on the counter, but Ukraine didn't really go for it. Massively missed Rooney tonight.

Unbeaten. Joint second highest scorers in Europe. Third best defence in Europe. Top of the group.

Who am I talking about? England.

You could be a spin doctor for the FA!
13 of those 25 goals were against San Marino, 9 against Moldova. In the other 4 games against mediocre teams they've scored 3 goals.

This. The only reason we're top of the group is because there's nobody particularly good in it. TBH when I saw the draw I thought it should be an absolute cakewalk, it's embarrassing that we've struggled in this fashion.

Yes, we were missing a few players, but to show such a woeful lack of ambition against a decent but not particularly good side like Ukraine shows just how far we've fallen...

Duty281 wrote:

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:Hodgson is woefully out of his depth and Duty the way you stand up for the england side is crinchworthy and embarrassing, get your head out of the clouds and see the reality. We're average and have been for years, if we couldn't achieve anything with a star studded team like in 2004 and 2006 this lot stand very little chance.

12 competitive games, hasn't lost a single one yet.

And this star-studded team of 2006 you allude to, is that the one that lost 4-1 to Denmark, and 1-0 to Northern Ireland? Interesting.

12 competitive games and he has yet to beat a single top class side!!

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:Hodgson is woefully out of his depth and Duty the way you stand up for the england side is crinchworthy and embarrassing, get your head out of the clouds and see the reality. We're average and have been for years, if we couldn't achieve anything with a star studded team like in 2004 and 2006 this lot stand very little chance.

12 competitive games, hasn't lost a single one yet.

And this star-studded team of 2006 you allude to, is that the one that lost 4-1 to Denmark, and 1-0 to Northern Ireland? Interesting.

Sorry but I can't take your opinion seriously, if scraping to draws against sub par opposition is a success then you have very low standards, we'll get nowhere if we don't set out to win and not draw.

I've pointed this out once, I'll point it out again.

During qualification for the 2006 World Cup, Italy lost to Slovenia, conceded 3 to Belarus, and drew with Norway and Scotland....before going on to win the whole thing. You just have to get to the world cup, it's a different kettle of fish getting there than it is when you're there.

This sort of game - 65,000 opposition fans, flares and firecrackers going off - you won't get that at the world cup. It's a completely different atmosphere when you get to the world cup. Tonight was a good point for England.