Tuesday qualifiers

First topic message reminder :

Macedonia vs Scotland (7:30)
Wales vs Serbia (7:45)
Ukraine vs England (7:45)
Austria vs ROI (7:45)

As a welsh man i'm not holding out for too much against Serbia. We're without joniesta and williams so it means there's even more pressure on Ramsey to pull something out the bag again. Hopefully Coleman's team selection and tactics improve and we're more positive against Serbia. If we'd gone for it we would've won in Macedonia. Fingers crossed bale get's 15 mins at least.

Tough games for England and ROI, I expect England to get a point at least or maybe sneak a win.

I think Woodward's "achievements" are a bit overblown.
He basically won a tournament that only had about 3-4 contenders in it, much much easier to win a Rugby World Cup than a football one.

Mike

are you stating that the fa or myself is suggesting we should pick a manager that is not competent or something?


Do you believe that hodgson or redknapp are lower than competent?

Myst the FA make a lot of false statements. I'd take whatever comes out of Soho square with a pinch of salt.

Nobody can tell me that Fabio Capello was any less passionate than any other manager we've had in recent years. He'd built up one the the finest CV's of any coach of the last 20 years before hitting the brick wall that is the England football team.

Pigs ears and silk purses and all that. The job - as has been stated - is a dead duck.

I'd much rather have someone who knows what hes doing than someone who celebrates like PDC

the bloke walked out of the job- he was paid bundles, he didn't even learn the language !

If thats passionate, then I am david beckham

Is it not more deeply-rooted problems with the players than the managers though? Like I said too many clashes of personalities, egos and lack of work ethic that doesn't go well for bonding into a strong team. England do have quality players but they never seem to get the right blend.

mystiroakey wrote:"Well that's nonsense for a start"

it was a tongue in cheek joke and you know it!

"!Personally I believe "competent" to be a better attribute than "passionate"..."

its not about an either or. thats ridiculas

Of course.

My final comment was slightly tongue in cheek as well.

The rest of my post stands though. Passion is nowhere near the first thing I would look for in a coach or manager. In any case you can be passionate even when coaching another club or country...

so what do you lot suggest- spend 12 million a year on a foreign coach. At best he will be there for his CV(not just the money) therefore will only be bothered about short term results. over a long term strategy of bringing through the best english talent!!

any foreign coach is a short term outlook!

I doubt even Ferguson, Morinho, Hiddink or Ancellotti could get much out of those chumps.

mystiroakey wrote:the bloke walked out of the job- he was paid bundles, he didn't even learn the language !

If thats passionate, then I am david beckham

He walked out because he was undermined. Wasn't his fault they threw so much money at him. And I must have dreamt them pressers where he spoke english.

Now lend me a million quid Dave  

Duty281 wrote:England players who would get into Belgium's team (I think):

Hart, Cole, Wilshere, Walcott, Rooney.

Possibly Johnson and Cahill as well.

No way on earth is Hart better than Courtois, it's like comparing an old Skoda to a Ferrari. Even Mignolet is better.

Not to mention the massive dearth of good English managers. Theres 7 English managers in the PL

to be honest my ultimate short term coach would be redknapp anyway as he is one of them. People need to actually go back to the world manager and relate that to this job. It is management!! and you need a manager that can relate to produce the best results in any industry!

long term we have to get a young english manager- !!

a young foreign manager will only be there as a stepping stone!

GSC wrote:Not to mention the massive dearth of good English managers. Theres 7 English managers in the PL

35% compared to 34% english players.

mystiroakey wrote:so what do you lot suggest- spend 12 million a year on a foreign coach. At best he will be there for his CV(not just the money) therefore will only be bothered about short term results. over  a long term strategy of bringing through the best english talent!!

any foreign coach is a short term outlook!

All of that could apply equally well to an Englishman.

Or the coach could take the job because it's the most interesting challenge available, and be committed to getting the best results possible over the length of his contract.

I don't see where nationality plays a part in either of these two scenarii.

At cricket I have coached the club side who I've always played for, and several others since. I don't think I've been any less committed to any of them.

Re Capello I've never respected him more than when he walked out following disgraceful political interference.

How many would be considered "good" managers though? Mostly Championship standard.

GSC wrote:Not to mention the massive dearth of good English managers. Theres 7 English managers in the PL

But who was the last English manager to win the Premier League? I do believe it was Howard Wilkinson at Leeds over 20 years ago! 

Nationality plays a massive part.

there are patriotic people out there mike. Its that simple. and especially in other countries.

a spanish coaches goal would be to manage spain for instance.

say england took on martinez and he did well for us.. Spain then come knocking. what do you think the outcome would be????

"Re Capello I've never respected him more than when he walked out following disgraceful political interference."

Nonsense in this scenario mate.

He cared about himself over his team.. the best managers only care about the team under them and fight for them.

mystiroakey wrote:

say england took on martinez and he did well for us.. Spain then come knocking. what do you think the outcome would be????

I'd wish him well.

FreekShow wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

say england took on martinez and he did well for us.. Spain then come knocking. what do you think the outcome would be????

I'd wish him well.

Yeah, if a top team came calling for Davies I'd have the same response.

Spain is not a good example because the Spanish job is possibly the most attractive in football at the moment. I believe almost ANY country manager would walk away from his job for it, and that includes our beloved Englishman coaching England.

Or say tomorrow Roy is offered the Chelsea job, what do you reckon he'll do?

Nationality plays less a part than you think, particularly for managers precisely because of what I've been talking about - it's far more about how attractive the job is and of course salary. ATM the England job is not attractive, but the salary goes some way to compensate for that.

What was my response with zaha?

you talking rubbish.. the point is that martinez is spanish and his ultimate role would be to manage his country! just like a young english managers ultimate job would be to manage england!!(as long as you pick a patriotic one anyway!!)

Mike Selig wrote:Spain is not a good example because the Spanish job is possibly the most attractive in football at the moment. I believe almost ANY country manager would walk away from his job for it, and that includes our beloved Englishman coaching England.

Or say tomorrow Roy is offered the Chelsea job, what do you reckon he'll do?

Nationality plays less a part than you think, particularly for managers precisely because of what I've been talking about - it's far more about how attractive the job is and of course salary. ATM the England job is not attractive, but the salary goes some way to compensate for that.

you have missed the point- martinez is spainish. its the perfect example.

mystiroakey wrote:"Re Capello I've never respected him more than when he walked out following disgraceful political interference."

Nonsense in this scenario mate.

He cared about himself over his team.. the best managers only care about the team under them and fight for them.

In what way does walking away from millions imply he was caring about himself? He stuck up for his principles, which were that he didn't believe the FA should be dictating who he could have as captain. In that, I have a lot of respect for him.

mystiroakey wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Spain is not a good example because the Spanish job is possibly the most attractive in football at the moment. I believe almost ANY country manager would walk away from his job for it, and that includes our beloved Englishman coaching England.

Or say tomorrow Roy is offered the Chelsea job, what do you reckon he'll do?

Nationality plays less a part than you think, particularly for managers precisely because of what I've been talking about - it's far more about how attractive the job is and of course salary. ATM the England job is not attractive, but the salary goes some way to compensate for that.

you have missed the point- martinez is spainish. its the perfect example.

No it isn't because the Spanish job is far more attractive than the English one for many reasons. As I say, if Roy was offered the Spanish job tomorrow what do you think he'd do?

What if an English manager improved England to a team which made the odd semi (lets be honest that would prove he was a decent manager) and Barcelona, Bayern or Real came calling. No way a manager would turn something like that down.

Mike Selig wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"Re Capello I've never respected him more than when he walked out following disgraceful political interference."

Nonsense in this scenario mate.

He cared about himself over his team.. the best managers only care about the team under them and fight for them.

In what way does walking away from millions imply he was caring about himself? He stuck up for his principles, which were that he didn't believe the FA should be dictating who he could have as captain. In that, I have a lot of respect for him.

No you stick up for your team and you finish your job whatever is going on!!. You can have respect , but I passionately hate your attitude and that is the perfect example of something I disrespect!

You sign a contract, you bond with your players and then you run out because you don't get your own way. It doesn't mean he was wrong to stand up and make a point about the situation. But you don't punish every other player in that team just for your selfish principles!!! You stick up for the team and try and finish the job!!

Mike Selig wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:Spain is not a good example because the Spanish job is possibly the most attractive in football at the moment. I believe almost ANY country manager would walk away from his job for it, and that includes our beloved Englishman coaching England.

Or say tomorrow Roy is offered the Chelsea job, what do you reckon he'll do?

Nationality plays less a part than you think, particularly for managers precisely because of what I've been talking about - it's far more about how attractive the job is and of course salary. ATM the England job is not attractive, but the salary goes some way to compensate for that.

you have missed the point- martinez is spainish. its the perfect example.

No it isn't because the Spanish job is far more attractive than the English one for many reasons. As I say, if Roy was offered the Spanish job tomorrow what do you think he'd do?

roy would never in a million years take that job on. are you actually suggesting he would???

Of course Roy would take the Spain job

yes I am. Just as he would the Real job, or Barcelona, or Bayern, or... providing the pay was equal or similar of course. Because those are more attractive jobs.

GSC wrote:Of course Roy would take the Spain job

Anyone would. To not would be to turn down Charlize Theron for Cherie Blair.

super_realist wrote:

GSC wrote:Of course Roy would take the Spain job

Anyone would. To not would be to turn down Charlize Theron for Cherie Blair.

rubbish..

there is only one way to go as the next spanish manager and that is downwards!!!! They cant get higher

Yeah, but no one would turn it down to stay at the dog with fleas that is England.

If they are english and proud they wouldn't ever take it!

There is a lack of pride on here., But this isn't a true reflection of the nation!

Yeah have to agree on this, Roy would be mad to turn down the offer of the Spanish national team, stay with a mediocre national team with overrated players, a tabloid press that builds you up one moment and then publically destroys you the net and a nation of fans that through the media have become deluded as to our actual ability. Or manage a team where the strength in depth in some positions have their 7th or 8th choice better than England's first choice.
Tough call.

Of course they would Oakey.
The chance to win a tournament or the chance to have your life dragged through the papers by managing a team of deadbeats like England. Come on Oakey.

just think about it the other way.

say england were the best team and a spain were average.. and we went for the spanish manager.. Would that manager come here. Off course not. They are patriotic!

Its Man United, City or Chelsea offered me the job while I was Forest manager, of course I'd take the top job.

An hilarious pipedream of a suggestion , but why not Oakey? If someone offered you a job to work for a better company that is making better goods or providing better services than your current one what you do?

super_realist wrote:
An hilarious pipedream of a suggestion , but why not Oakey? If someone offered you a job to work for a better company that is making better goods or providing better services than your current one what you do?

I would never work for anyone bar myself. ridiculous suggestion. I know I can earn more money by working harder and making key decisions.

I have been offered a buyout and a massive salary to still run it. I declined.

mystiroakey wrote:just think about it the other way.

say england were the best team and a spain were average.. and we went for the spanish manager.. Would that manager come here.

Yes, in a word.

As others have pointed out if you are offered a job with similar wages, but better facilities, a better work-force, a more positive outlook and the chance to be at the top of the world in your field? Only a few extreme people would turn that down, and I'm not sure those people would be the ones I'd want needing the cool analytical brain to manage a national team.

Craig Hogan had been the coach of the Jersey cricket teams for a few years now, but has just taken on the job of overseeing Ireland's academy. Everyone wishes him well, no one questions his commitment to the Jersey cause, everybody understands exactly why he's taken on the job.

In that case Oakey then you might be described as obstinate, stubborn and lacking ambition.
Could say the same for a manager turning down a better job on the basis of patriotism.

Why on earth would Hodgson not take the Spanish Job if he was offered it?!?!?

Total #headsgone Myst

A choice of 2 teams that are expected to win tournaments, 1 of which has the resources to do so.

Tough choice

please stop talking about associate cricket as an example- It just isn't comparable.

These lads don't earn much money- so they have to go where the money is.Football managers at this high end so much money wherever they are.

GSC wrote:A choice of 2 teams that are expected to win tournaments, 1 of which has the resources to do so.

Tough choice

Or rather one team with realistic expectations of winning and one team with preposterous expectations. What a tough choice.

He didn't go to Ireland for the money, just as Roy wouldn't go to Spain for the money, so I believe the comparison is a reasonable one.

Anyway I'm out of here for now. Have fun.

super_realist wrote:In that case Oakey then you might be described as obstinate, stubborn and lacking ambition.
Could say the same for a manager turning down a better job on the basis of patriotism.

nonsense I HAVE AMBITION that is why i didn't become a slave to a bigger company that wanting into my contracts/contacts/workforce. Seriously you couldn't sound more stupid!

My business has grown every year. There is no way on this planet that i will ever work for someone. And you say i lack ambition.

pffft

mystiroakey wrote:please stop talking about associate cricket as an example- It just isn't comparable.

These lads don't earn much money- so they have to go where the money is.Football managers at this high end so much money wherever they are.

Yes, oakey, because football is just full of honour and loyalty isn't it?
Of all English people Hodgson with his European experience is EXACTLY the sort of person who would move abroad to further his career. It's rather ironic that none of the players will do it.