Tuesday qualifiers

First topic message reminder :

Macedonia vs Scotland (7:30)
Wales vs Serbia (7:45)
Ukraine vs England (7:45)
Austria vs ROI (7:45)

As a welsh man i'm not holding out for too much against Serbia. We're without joniesta and williams so it means there's even more pressure on Ramsey to pull something out the bag again. Hopefully Coleman's team selection and tactics improve and we're more positive against Serbia. If we'd gone for it we would've won in Macedonia. Fingers crossed bale get's 15 mins at least.

Tough games for England and ROI, I expect England to get a point at least or maybe sneak a win.

Personally I want hodgson out . so come on spain. Offer him a job!

Hes not moving to Spain for money in this hypothetical scenario.

hes moving for the far superior squad

Are you high Myst?

mystiroakey wrote:

super_realist wrote:In that case Oakey then you might be described as obstinate, stubborn and lacking ambition.
Could say the same for a manager turning down a better job on the basis of patriotism.

nonsense I HAVE AMBITION that is why i didn't become a slave to a bigger company that wanting into my contracts/contacts/workforce. Seriously you couldn't sound more stupid!

My business has grown every year. There is no way on this planet that i will ever work for someone. And you say i lack ambition.

pffft

I didn't say that Oakey, don't get so defensive. I said you might be described as that because you are turning down a take over from a company that presumably has more expertise and resources and capable of growing the company more than you may be able to do so on your own.
As they were going to pay you a lovely salary to do so, I doubt you'd be treated as a "slave" simply because you become an employee.

No I don't post when i am high and i rarely get high these days. Maybe you should go out and get high abit more laddie!

mystiroakey wrote:No I don't post when i am high and i rarely get high these days. Maybe you should go out and get high abit more laddie!

Yeah it stifles ambition Oakey and only losers get "high"

mystiroakey wrote:No I don't post when i am high and i rarely get high these days. Maybe you should go out and get high abit more laddie!

  You crack me up Myst.

Anyone who thinks England can contend in any forthcoming tournament is obviously high too.

super_realist wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

super_realist wrote:In that case Oakey then you might be described as obstinate, stubborn and lacking ambition.
Could say the same for a manager turning down a better job on the basis of patriotism.

nonsense I HAVE AMBITION that is why i didn't become a slave to a bigger company that wanting into my contracts/contacts/workforce. Seriously you couldn't sound more stupid!

My business has grown every year. There is no way on this planet that i will ever work for someone. And you say i lack ambition.

pffft

I didn't say that Oakey, don't get so defensive. I said you might be described as that because you are turning down a take over from a company that presumably has more expertise and resources and capable of growing the company more than you may be able to do so on your own.
As they were going to pay you a lovely salary to do so, I doubt you'd be treated as a "slave" simply because you become an employee.

All employees are slaves.

The buyout company in this case was a firm that gives my company 300 k's worth of electrical testing a year. So they wanted the ability to do it in house rather than having to sub it out(plus all the other contacts we have!!).. The risk was massive at the time. Because that sort of revenue is so big to my company. Refusing the deal could have potentially lost me all of the sub work anyway and they could have gone elsewhere!

But the fact is there is no way i would ever work for someone again. If i was to sell up. I would start something else.

super_realist wrote:Anyone who thinks England can contend in any forthcoming tournament is obviously high too.

They've got as good a chance as France/Holland/Portugal methinks. And they're not too far off the Argies, the Germans, or the Spanish.

super_realist wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:No I don't post when i am high and i rarely get high these days. Maybe you should go out and get high abit more laddie!

Yeah it stifles ambition Oakey and only losers get "high"

very true. I go amsterdam twice a year on a work morale trip. Yes i do get high there, but never ever at home!!

Duty281 wrote:

super_realist wrote:Anyone who thinks England can contend in any forthcoming tournament is obviously high too.

They've got as good a chance as France/Holland/Portugal methinks. And they're not too far off the Argies, the Germans, or the Spanish.

Ha ha, you found Oakey's crack stash?

Holland reached the final last time out and Portugal the semi. What possible reason have you got that England have as good a chance as them?
Plus they are country mile away from Argentina, Germany and the Spanish.

SR just go back to hating woods. You were more bearable then

super_realist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

super_realist wrote:Anyone who thinks England can contend in any forthcoming tournament is obviously high too.

They've got as good a chance as France/Holland/Portugal methinks. And they're not too far off the Argies, the Germans, or the Spanish.

Ha ha, you found Oakey's crack stash?

Holland reached the final last time out and Portugal the semi. What possible reason have you got that England have as good a reason as them?
Plus they are country mile away from Argentina, Germany and the Spanish.

If we debate this again, we'll just go round in circles.

I think England can possibly win the World Cup (might need a bit to go our way though), though I think the more realistic target is a semi-final with a quarter-final being par, whereas you don't think England have a prayer.

Meh. We'll see next summer I suppose.

I believe England don't have a chance based on all the evidence which suggests they aren't capable, you aren't using logic or reason, you just have blind faith.

SR needs woods to do something stupid or some religious nut to come out and say something.

Its the only way he will get of this bandwagon!

super_realist wrote:I believe England don't have a chance based on all the evidence which suggests they aren't capable, you aren't using logic or reason, you just have blind faith.

I've used plenty of logic and reason over this thread. I see no real need to go over it again.

Oakey, you and others are on this England World Cup discussion as much as I am. We need opposing views to keep a debate going.

SR I go off on tangents.. You just bring it back down to 'england have no chance' every 20 odd posts!

Its a nonsocial debate. It has no bearing on anything. Why cant england fans just debate england without the nonsense all the time..


Or should we just stop talking about our team because by your reckoning england have zero chance!

http://centrebet.com/#Sports/5225629

England have no chance some say. Here's an Australian bookmaker listing England as 8th favourites - in the same bracket as I put them - and ahead of teams like Portugal and France.

Talking about your team is fine. Talking about them as if they have as much chance as Holland or Portugal and almost being up there with Argentina, Germany and Spain is certifiable.

So what's your team SR?


Is there one team you support in anything!!

Duty281 wrote:http://centrebet.com/#Sports/5225629

England have no chance some say. Here's an Australian bookmaker listing England as 8th favourites - in the same bracket as I put them - and ahead of teams like Portugal and France.

So Quarter Final again then?

quarters will be decent- but the result isn't important- I want some youngers to get experience and play ok so they can be better next time. That should be our only goal!

They're ahead of Portugal and France because of their standings in qualification right now.

France are level on points with Spain, having played 1 more game. Portugal a point behind Russia

I don't have a football team or generally a national team, but I'm realistic about sports and sports people in whose careers I may be interested.

I've no problem with people supporting a team, but when they start making crackpot claims about contending to win tournaments the support lacks credibility.

The England situation reminds me a bit of Liverpool FC, living in the past, still trying desperately to convince themselves they could win the title.

I know all that SR .

You must support something(bar scandinavian golfers)

mystiroakey wrote:quarters will be decent- but the result isn't important- I want some youngers to get experience and play ok so they can be better next time. That should be our only goal!

That's more of an admirable and realistic stance. They should consider ditching the likes of Lampard, Gerrard, Cole etc. All those caps and barely 10% of their games have been noteable appearances.

well there is no real problem with cole and we have a very high quality back up in baines. so no dramas there

I would love to see us ditch lampard and gerrard though. But Hodgson isn't the man to do that!

mystiroakey wrote:I know all that SR .

You must support something(bar scandinavian golfers)

To be honest, not really Oakey. I glance at scores, watch a few events, but I don't assert a team/player can win something they haven't a chance of winning on the basis of having a tenuous link to them. I could say something like "I would like them to win, but it's extremely unlikely given X,X, X and X".

yet there are teams or sportsmen that you support against!

Well there are players I don't like yes, who I prefer to see losing, usually because they are unpleasant people or generally unsporting or lack class.

I wouldn't mind a Gerrard, Cole, Terry free England do well, I'm just realistic that in their current state it isn't likely.

But you actively want to see those three plus plenty of golfers fail!!

You do realise that that is an emotional response don't you.

Yeah, why not? Sport needs villains.
Nothing wrong with an emotional response. It was forlorn hope I said was a wasted emotion.

Trust me hating and wishing people you don't even know fail is about as wasted an emotion as you could possibly have!

Its pointless, And I personally have never understood it!

super_realist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:http://centrebet.com/#Sports/5225629

England have no chance some say. Here's an Australian bookmaker listing England as 8th favourites - in the same bracket as I put them - and ahead of teams like Portugal and France.

So Quarter Final again then?

That would be par.

Not really. Not a wasted emotion at all. You get a laugh when you see the miserable face of Woods/Nadal etc getting beat.

So you never wish any team that isn't Crystal Palace to get beat? Palace don't have a rival you like to rub their noses in it? You've never played against a team in your own experience as a player where you didn't get on with the opposition and you'd rather they lost than won? I don't believe you haven't.
Wishing something to happen that you know in reality never will, is easily more wasted than disliking people in sport.

I am not a massive club fan SR. I don't get the whole brighton thing. Nick on here loves the whole rival thing but in honesty I actually like brighton anyway!

I don't support against any other team unless its integral to palaces or england's chances of success. (ie a result that goes a certain way to aid your own into a play off or qualification etc)

same goes for golfers as you should be aware that I support the english over others, yet don't actively hate any other!

wishing is a silly word by the way. Having hope is a great emotion it aids you in life. Having goals is great. Sports is just sport and doesn't affect most peoples lives, Hating people that you don't know  is weird in my mind. Hoping your team will win a game is a very normal emotion and a fine one. I hoped palace would beat united at the weekend. I told everyone we would get stuffed though and that is what i thought would happen.but It adds excitement to the game to hope. every single fan of any team hopes. It truly is part of being a fan!

Unless you want everyone in the world to stop being fans, hope will always remain. It is intergral

And rivalries and dislike of other opposition is as natural as a desire to see your team do well.
I get the whole support thing, I just don't think it has to tie in with unrealistic expectations. You can support your team, but be perfectly reasonable in terms of what they are likely to achieve. Although it's true that certain teams and certain groups of supporters don't seem to get that.

Those players I dislike are generally unpleasant people though, and do very little to make themselves likeable.
I bet for example that you had more than indifference in regard to fairly hateful footballers like El Haj Diouf, Rivaldo and Joey Barton for the way they behave.
Obviously we can't genuinely hate someone we don't know, it's just a lot easier than to say every time that certain players are "currently my least favourite in the field of "insert sport here"
I don't normally say "I hate" anyone, usually just refer to them as a C word.

"You can support your team, but be perfectly reasonable in terms of what they are likely to achieve. "

Every fan hopes for more. Most of us state and understand the realism but we all hope for more.

Hope is integral to being a fan

Of course you can hope for more, everyone does. I'm sure even Spain do.

I'm more talking about people confusing this hope with an assertion of being a contender because they hold that hope. Hope doesn't improve your chances of them being contenders.

It's completely different.

No its not its exactly the same thing its just some hope for more than others. The wiser you get the less you hope for.

Let me put it this way.

Lets say someone hopes England can win the World Cup, that in no way means that in their current state they are capable of doing so.

All the hope in the world, doesn't make anything more likely. So you can hope England contend, doesn't mean they will or can.

so again you are going back to that !

Look dude you have a pop at others for having an emotional(over reality) response and yet you are even worse by hating people you don't know!

Just forget about it. Who cares if people hope england win the world cup. Get over it. Its just partizan fan talk and no way as bad as hating others based on their personal lives being plastered over our media!

No Oakey, I don't think you're getting what I'm saying.

Hope all you want, but hope doesn't ACTUALLY make you a contender, as no one as been able to give me a reason other than hope as to why they might contend

It's natural to hope for things, doesn't make them happen though. I hope I open the front door and a Norwegian nymphomaniac netball team is standing outside, won't make it happen.

(for the record, my dislike of Woods is nothing to do with his personal life)

No but your hate for terry, cole and gerrard is!

I know someone that hates a golfer(won't mention his name). The reason he hates this open winner is because he once punched him in a pub for no reason whatasoever. Now that is a fine reason to hate him.

Unless something like that happened to you with woods then I don't buy your hate as anything more than a girly emotional response!

No it isn't. My dislike of them is based on them being not very nice people, not very intelligent, articulate or sporting.
Note how I mention "dislike" and not "hate".

Even if I did "hate" someone, you don't need a personal contact with someone to hate them. You can hate people for all sorts of reasons.

Yes you can hate anyone you want for any reason you want. Its your life.

Which is fine Oakey, I wouldn't say I hated anyone, except perhaps Lorraine Kelly.

Whenever there is an argument why does it always involve super realist 

this isn't an argument nick!!