Tuesday qualifiers

First topic message reminder :

Macedonia vs Scotland (7:30)
Wales vs Serbia (7:45)
Ukraine vs England (7:45)
Austria vs ROI (7:45)

As a welsh man i'm not holding out for too much against Serbia. We're without joniesta and williams so it means there's even more pressure on Ramsey to pull something out the bag again. Hopefully Coleman's team selection and tactics improve and we're more positive against Serbia. If we'd gone for it we would've won in Macedonia. Fingers crossed bale get's 15 mins at least.

Tough games for England and ROI, I expect England to get a point at least or maybe sneak a win.

But in all honesty all 3 of us (including you!!) are as bad as each other

Cheering on England opponents in football is good fun

Duty281 wrote:

super_realist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

super_realist wrote:Anyone who thinks England can contend in any forthcoming tournament is obviously high too.

They've got as good a chance as France/Holland/Portugal methinks. And they're not too far off the Argies, the Germans, or the Spanish.

Ha ha, you found Oakey's crack stash?

Holland reached the final last time out and Portugal the semi. What possible reason have you got that England have as good a reason as them?
Plus they are country mile away from Argentina, Germany and the Spanish.

If we debate this again, we'll just go round in circles.

I think England can possibly win the World Cup (might need a bit to go our way though), though I think the more realistic target is a semi-final with a quarter-final being par, whereas you don't think England have a prayer.

Meh. We'll see next summer I suppose.

They don't have a chance. The German and Spanish B teams would destory england

LastDamnation wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

super_realist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

super_realist wrote:Anyone who thinks England can contend in any forthcoming tournament is obviously high too.

They've got as good a chance as France/Holland/Portugal methinks. And they're not too far off the Argies, the Germans, or the Spanish.

Ha ha, you found Oakey's crack stash?

Holland reached the final last time out and Portugal the semi. What possible reason have you got that England have as good a reason as them?
Plus they are country mile away from Argentina, Germany and the Spanish.

If we debate this again, we'll just go round in circles.

I think England can possibly win the World Cup (might need a bit to go our way though), though I think the more realistic target is a semi-final with a quarter-final being par, whereas you don't think England have a prayer.

I agree, we already had that debate about holland and portugal, debating it again is just going to bring u the same arguments.

Steffan wrote:Cheering on England opponents in football is good fun

Nothing wrong with that. I always support the other team when Scotland are playing, in Football anyway, not because I don't like Scots, just that we are rivals. You won't see any Liverpool fans supporting Utd if they were to get to the CL final, and this for me is the same.

Stella wrote:

Steffan wrote:Cheering on England opponents in football is good fun

Nothing wrong with that. I always support the other team when Scotland are playing, in Football anyway, not because I don't like Scots, just that we are rivals. You won't see any Liverpool fans supporting Utd if they were to get to the CL final, and this for me is the same.

I know its all part of the fun and banter aint it. I dont know why so many England fans on here get their heads up their backside when us non-Englishmen cheer on the other team. I kmow loads of English people who always cheer on Wales opponents in rugby. It doesnt bother at all I embrace it

Steffan wrote:

Stella wrote:

Steffan wrote:Cheering on England opponents in football is good fun

Nothing wrong with that. I always support the other team when Scotland are playing, in Football anyway, not because I don't like Scots, just that we are rivals. You won't see any Liverpool fans supporting Utd if they were to get to the CL final, and this for me is the same.

I know its all part of the fun and banter aint it. I dont know why so many England fans on here get their heads up their backside when us non-Englishmen cheer on the other team. I kmow loads of English people who always cheer on Wales opponents in rugby. It doesnt bother at all I embrace it

England and Wales are not football rivals just like england and scotland are not football rivals. The rivaly comes from bigotry and political tensions, nothing football about it.

All England and Scotland rivals in anything??

At least the Welsh have the rugby....

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Stella wrote:

Steffan wrote:Cheering on England opponents in football is good fun

Nothing wrong with that. I always support the other team when Scotland are playing, in Football anyway, not because I don't like Scots, just that we are rivals. You won't see any Liverpool fans supporting Utd if they were to get to the CL final, and this for me is the same.

I know its all part of the fun and banter aint it. I dont know why so many England fans on here get their heads up their backside when us non-Englishmen cheer on the other team. I kmow loads of English people who always cheer on Wales opponents in rugby. It doesnt bother at all I embrace it

England and Wales are not football rivals just like england and scotland are not football rivals. The rivaly comes from bigotry and political tensions, nothing football about it.

No, it can come from Footballing rivalry and it does in my case. England and Scotland were about even when I was young, and there was always that derby type rivalry.

Stella wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Stella wrote:

Steffan wrote:Cheering on England opponents in football is good fun

Nothing wrong with that. I always support the other team when Scotland are playing, in Football anyway, not because I don't like Scots, just that we are rivals. You won't see any Liverpool fans supporting Utd if they were to get to the CL final, and this for me is the same.

I know its all part of the fun and banter aint it. I dont know why so many England fans on here get their heads up their backside when us non-Englishmen cheer on the other team. I kmow loads of English people who always cheer on Wales opponents in rugby. It doesnt bother at all I embrace it

England and Wales are not football rivals just like england and scotland are not football rivals. The rivaly comes from bigotry and political tensions, nothing football about it.

No, it can come from Footballing rivalry and it does in my case. England and Scotland were about even when I was young, and there was always that derby type rivalry.

Of course rivalry is subjective and I am by no means saying all scottish/welsh fans dislike the English football team due to political/bigoted reasons but for the vast majority I believe it is. England have played Scotland 5x in competitive matches in the last 52 years.

But like i said I believe the overwhelming majority of dislike aimed towards the ENgland football team is from angry bigoted Scotsmen.

I think the whole Scottish Independence campaign is based on Anti English sentiment too, though that fat, heart attack in waiting Alex Salmond would never admit it, he clearly sees it as a useful foil to his madcap agenda.

There is probably a 50/50 mix of bigots and genuine banter towards the English football team though.

I've never understood any anti-English feeling from Scotland or Wales. Most times, I want to see Scotland or Wales win in sport, not lose. Shame that feeling isn't reciprocated. I don't mind banter, just there isn't any real rivalry between England-Scotland as the gap in quality is too big. At least England-Wales have rugby.

I generally do not mind England doing well with the exception of a few players.

England claim to have a rivalry with Germany (even though Germany don't see it as such), but there's a pretty wide gap there too, or is it a chasm?

Duty281 wrote:I've never understood any anti-English feeling from Scotland or Wales. Most times, I want to see Scotland or Wales win in sport, not lose. Shame that feeling isn't reciprocated. I don't mind banter, just there isn't any real rivalry between England-Scotland as the gap in quality is too big. At least England-Wales have rugby.

It never use to be big though duty. Ha, I remember the Scotland manager saying they would win the 78 world cup. Could have been tongue in cheek, although they had a good team.

super_realist wrote:I generally do not mind England doing well with the exception of a few players.

England claim to have a rivalry with Germany (even though Germany don't see it as such), but there's a pretty wide gap there too, or is it a chasm?

It's pretty much 50/50 between England and Germany in head-to-head games isn't it? That suggests a pretty close rivalry. Granted, Germany do far better against other teams at tournament football though.

Duty281 wrote:I've never understood any anti-English feeling from Scotland or Wales. Most times, I want to see Scotland or Wales win in sport, not lose. Shame that feeling isn't reciprocated. I don't mind banter, just there isn't any real rivalry between England-Scotland as the gap in quality is too big. At least England-Wales have rugby.

But your English so only get to see it from one side of the fence. Dont get me wrong there are some real caveman in Wales when it comes to the English I cant deny that. But the abuse works both ways and iv had it off the lower and higher educated elements of English society. Yet if a Welshman says anything bad about England its 'bitterness' and 'bigoted' but if an Englishman says anything about Wales its 'banter' and 'tongue in cheek'. Anti-Englishness is more militant I wont deny that but you only have to read Joe Calzaghes book on the abuse he used to face in England (or just watch the Richie Woodhall fight and listen to the chants...the same chants Cleverly gets in Liverpool at the Bellew weigh in) to see its not all one sided

Or just watch this:

Duty281 wrote:

super_realist wrote:I generally do not mind England doing well with the exception of a few players.

England claim to have a rivalry with Germany (even though Germany don't see it as such), but there's a pretty wide gap there too, or is it a chasm?

It's pretty much 50/50 between England and Germany in head-to-head games isn't it? That suggests a pretty close rivalry. Granted, Germany do far better against other teams at tournament football though.

Most of Englands wins coming from days of yore, they've only won 4 of the last 15, it's equal in the way the England-SCotland "rivalry" is close because that's pretty equal too in terms of wins each.

Interestingly Sweden have a better head to head record in their matches against England. Does that make it a rivalry of two teams on equal standing too?

super_realist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

super_realist wrote:I generally do not mind England doing well with the exception of a few players.

England claim to have a rivalry with Germany (even though Germany don't see it as such), but there's a pretty wide gap there too, or is it a chasm?

It's pretty much 50/50 between England and Germany in head-to-head games isn't it? That suggests a pretty close rivalry. Granted, Germany do far better against other teams at tournament football though.

Most of Englands wins coming from days of yore, they've only won 4 of the last 15, it's equal in the way the England-SCotland "rivalry" is close because that's pretty equal too in terms of wins each.

Interestingly Sweden have a better head to head record in their matches against England. Does that make it a rivalry of two teams on equal standing too?

In the last 13 years, there have been four competitive games between England and Germany:

England 1-0 Germany Euro 2000
England 0-1 Germany WCQ
Germany 1-5 England WCQ
Germany 4-1 England World Cup 2010

Seems pretty equal to me.

Heres a picture of Non Standford winning the ITU World Triathlon title in London on the weekend. Made to wear a Great Britian top but crossing the line and waving the flag of her real country  

Regards

Which bit of the British flag is that?

Steffan wrote:Heres a picture of Non Standford winning the ITU World Triathlon title in London on the weekend. Made to wear a Great Britian top but crossing the line and waving the flag of her real country  

Regards

 

This made me laugh when I saw it. That was the picture on the BBC Sport website with the headline GB's Stanford wins triathalon crown! Loved it.

Hero wrote:Which bit of the British flag is that?

None cause us Welsh aint on it. And long may it continue

I'd prefer we competed in everything as GB. None of these insignificant little parochial countries. Imagine how much better we'd be at everything.
I can't stand it when you see all the bitter little sweaties complaining about Murray being Scottish when he is described as being British, when there is never a time when anyone British ever represents anything other than GB.

super_realist wrote:I'd prefer we competed in everything as GB. None of these insignificant little parochial countries. Imagine how much better we'd be at everything

So you dont like the 6 Nations rugby then?

super_realist wrote:when there is never a time when anyone British ever represents anything other than GB

International rugby. Commonwealth games. International football to name a some...

When did Gareth Bale ever represent GB?

Don't really like Rugby Steff. Don't really see the point in it, and too many stupid rules which ruin it.

Steffan wrote:

super_realist wrote:when there is never a time when anyone British ever represents anything other than GB

International rugby. Commonwealth games. International football to name a some...

When did Gareth Bale ever represent GB?

I was talking about Tennis, where the sweaties always try to claim Murray as being Scottish and not British, even though you only ever play as a GB player.

Also annoyed me when people at London 2012 were saying if Scotland, Wales, Yorkshire etc had competed independently, they would have come Xth in the medal table. What would you do? Cut the boat in half?

super_realist wrote:Don't really like Rugby Steff. Don't really see the point in it, and too many stupid rules which ruin it.

Thats fine but why the hell would Wales who are 2 times 6N champions want to merge with England and Scotland?

super_realist wrote:I was talking about Tennis, where the sweaties always try to claim Murray as being Scottish and not British, even though you only ever play as a GB player.

Ah ok. Whats a 'sweatie' then by the way?

Sweaty Sock=Jock
Leek Muncher=Taff
Tatty Muncher = Irish.

super_realist wrote:Sweaty Sock=Jock
Leek Muncher=Taff
Tatty Muncher = Irish.

So whats an Englishman?

Insert your own.

super_realist wrote:Insert your own.

Frak Kumquat

Steffan wrote:

super_realist wrote:Don't really like Rugby Steff. Don't really see the point in it, and too many stupid rules which ruin it.

Thats fine but why the hell would Wales who are 2 times 6N champions want to merge with England and Scotland?

Where's your World Cup?  

Duty281 wrote:Where's your World Cup?  

Id rather never qualify than team up with your scummy fans and press

Steffan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Where's your World Cup?  

Id rather never qualify than team up with your scummy fans and press

So we are scummy because we are English?

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Where's your World Cup?  

Id rather never qualify than team up with your scummy fans and press

So we are scummy because we are English?

No your scummy because of the way you behave. English rugby fans a good crack

Tbh, I think the issue is the sport more than the nationality. Football fans are the dickheads, as you say the rugby lot are normally all fine.

Except rugby fans to a man are absolute Muppet.

Sure they get on, big deal.

the only muppets are the football fans. too many classless ignorant chavvy twonks.

Golf Fans Top,

GEtINDAHOLE!

super_realist wrote:Non-US Golf Fans Top,

corrected for you, Yank golf fans are tossers.

Tennis (Wimbledon) fans

Go on Timmy.

Stella wrote:Tennis (Wimbledon) fans

Go on Timmy.

Or the menopausal housewives wetting their pants over Nadal and Federer while decked out in associated regalia.

Steffan wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Steffan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Where's your World Cup?  

Id rather never qualify than team up with your scummy fans and press

So we are scummy because we are English?

No your scummy because of the way you behave. English rugby fans a good crack

So all english fans act in a scummy manner?

too large a proportion do

TopHat24/7 wrote:too large a proportion do

What is your definition of scummy? what percentage act in that way? what percentage of foreign fans act in that way?

a very small percentage.

In quite a few much larger.

I would say that England fans are not as bad as say Italian, Ukraine and some other european fans.

People still live in the 80's. Our fans have moved on a lot since then. Sadly many European fans are in that 80's period at the moment.