Whatever happened to the EuroTable?

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:43 pm

http://www.eurorugby.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Rugger&file=latest used to be a useful form guide for European (well ERC) sides but it seems to have gone dormant since the end of the season.

Any information would be welcome.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:47 pm

Could it be that because the HEC is going they see no point in having an inter-league comparison table any more. After all it's sole purpose, appeared to be, was so that people could argue that their team deserved a better HEC draw.

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:55 pm

No, SS. That's the official (imo rubbish) ERC allocation of points for in-house competition over a 4-years period one you are thinking about, I think. The EuroTable is based on current form in all competitions based on a thirty-game rolling calculation.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:06 pm

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:http://www.eurorugby.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Rugger&file=latest used to be a useful form guide for European (well ERC) sides but it seems to have gone dormant since the end of the season.

Any information would be welcome.

A wild guess - it's been the off-season for most NH clubs? Expect it to resume shortly perhaps?

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:25 pm

I hope so, As. I emailed peter@eurorugby.com yesterday. No reply as yet. Although the T14 has completed five rounds.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:28 pm

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:I hope so, As. I emailed peter@eurorugby.com yesterday. No reply as yet. Although the T14 has completed five rounds.

With only one league playing, I would imagine that it's a little pointless updating the table?

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:35 pm

Which is why I delayed the enquiry until the Rabo and Jeff started. As I recall they used to publish the results on Mondays.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:35 pm

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:No, SS. That's the official (imo rubbish) ERC allocation of points for in-house competition over a 4-years period one you are thinking about, I think. The EuroTable is based on current form in all competitions based on a thirty-game rolling calculation.

What I meant is that there may not really be much need for a 'current form' table of european teams anymore if the ERC poop is not sorted out. After all will you really give two hoots about where Leicester stand in relation to Leinster or Toulon etc if your not going to ever be competing against them?

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:43 pm

It's a mild distraction, SS. A conjectural European table. Just as is my continued interest in the IRB rankings, which whilst flawed, represents an indication of global performance.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Fair enough, each to their own and that. Out of interest is there a global club ranking system?

by Portnoy's Complaint Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:40 pm

I doubt it seeing as pan-hemisperical club contests let alone competitions are almost non-existent. How could inter-league variance be measured?

EuroTable does apply secret weightings details of which, despite probings, have not been forthcoming. But I'd welcome an open a two-year version to replace the ERC official version which distorts its pools so badly .

by Portnoy's Complaint Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:28 am

Got a reply from EuroTable:

Peter wrote:Thanks. Hope to be up and running again soon!

Peter
Eurorugby

by Brendan Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:50 am

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:I doubt it seeing as pan-hemisperical club contests let alone competitions are almost non-existent. How could inter-league variance be measured?

EuroTable does apply secret weightings details of which, despite probings, have not been forthcoming. But I'd welcome an open a two-year version to replace the ERC official version which distorts its pools so badly .

If there is no cross boader games it will be hard to compare leagues. If they don't know the relitive strenght of the league you can't say that team A is better the team B in any way.

by Portnoy's Complaint Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:04 pm

So that supports a view that all three leagues should be treated equally and assign pools based on a Euro Table spread over 24 months (four years is arrant nonsense) and allow the meritocracy work itself out irresective of leagues.

So for example http://www.eurorugby.com/index.php would nominate nine French, six English, three Irish, and one each of the Welsh and Scottish sides would be in the EC this year.

But hating to bang my gong again, I'd still prefer 24 (preferably) or 32 teams qualifying with absolutely no free spots nor 'dropping down' and no 'best losers'.

by Portnoy's Complaint Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:07 pm

Peter wrote:I'm sorry but I think I overlooked this mail (I do the EuroTable when I get a spare moment between work, sport and kids!)

A 12 month ranking certainly gives a complete picture but the idea of the ET (I first started a football ranking back in 1995) was to make it weekly in order to provide a more fast-changing form guide. Pros and cons for each approach.

I base the strength of the countries according to their performances in the Heineken Cup over the last 3 seasons (with more emphasis on the last season). So, the current countries coefficients in order are IRL, FR, EN, WA, SC, IT. That means more points are awarded to teams who beat an Irish team. However, to account for the differences between say Leinster and Connacht I also factor in each club's ranking position into the algorithm so considerably fewer pts are awarded for beating Connacht.

Best regards,

Peter

A late reply fro Eurotable.

Irrespective of any inaccuracies, it still looks way better than the Looney Tunes ERC version.

http://www.eurorugby.com/index.php

by ScarletSpiderman Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:14 pm

So going by league you get more points for being in the Jeff or T14, unless you are playing an Irish provincial side (1/3rd of the Rabo season).

by Portnoy's Complaint Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:32 pm

From what I can gather from the above, it's about union strength base on past Euro success rather than League.

Peter said wrote:So, the current countries coefficients in order are IRL, FR, EN, WA, SC, IT

[ed] Misread your post, SS. Sorry. I presume that each game is taken on a nation by nation basis. So the Rabo is treated like an international league.

Within that relative league position counts. So (say) if Leinster beat Connaght, they get fewer points if they do so at home than away (and vice versa) whilst if Zebre beat Tigers a relative positional is enhanced by a national coefficient plus a h/a measure.

Therefore Ulster and Castres are significant movers this week.

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