Clermont eying Tigers duo?

Clermont are losing two key elements to their side at the end of this season. Brock James us vacating the 10 shirt and head honcho Vern Cotter is leaving.

Toby Flood the 57 times capped England 10 is on the shortlist to replace James and other clubs are also reportedly interested. Toulon (where he would replace the departing Wilkinson) and Tolouse (where Beauxis is unreliability personified) are set to compete for his signature should he cross the channel. Tigers will be keen to retain their captain but are unlikely to be able to go toe to toe financially. England selection and the plans of Lancaster may be key to Toby's decision.

Cockerill is reportedly on the shortlist to replace Cotter. He is popular in Clermont where he finished his playing days and coached their forwards as Pat Howard's right hand man before returning to Leicester, he speaks fluent French as well. Clermont also have Robbie Deans and Grenoble coach Landreau on the shortlist. Cockerill has a further two years to run on his contract from the end of this season and so would not be cheap to recruit. Added to that his love of Leicester may make it hard to tempt him away.

Toby Flood wants to play in the RWC. If he is not in England's plans this season however I fully expect him to go at the end of his contract (ie end of this year). Not much more we can do to keep him really, he is the captain and we are to a large degree building the side around him. It would be a big loss - but it is a short career.

Richard Cockerill is an ambitious coach, who also knows that there are things he needs to learn and develop. One part of him may wonder whether the top job with England will be available post 2015 (when his tigers contract ends) however he know that he is a touch unpopular within the RFU. Add in the fact he has some powerful "enemies" within the tigers ruling classes and he knows he is always far closer to a sacking than he should be. A move to France could be just what the doctor ordered.

Cockers would be a loss. To be honest I thought an Irish province would swoop for Burkey before we lost Cockers and Burke would be easier to replace (step up Mr Mauger). To replace Cockers we'd probably give Burke the DOR job then either bring in Rowntree over Blaze as head coach with Blaze staying as assistant forwards coach or promote Blaze and bring in Chuter as assistant forwards coach. Worst of the worst would be if Cockers went to Clermont and took Burke with him. We would be in serious bother then.

Can't see Cockers thinking of England. He has no supporters in the RFU and a couple if enemies in charge of other clubs that wouldn't welcome conversations with him over player release.

Flood will be tough to replace, Owen Williams looks like he could be a natural successor but it may be a touch early for him. Certainly Flood is pivotal to the team and to lose him would be a blow. Might free up substantial wage cap though and if we could pick up a Heathcote for example on less wages in the summer we could end up looking pretty strong still.

Worth noting Bowden is out of contract in the summer as well and a 10/12 signing of real worth would strengthen us nicely.

Bowden has proven a touch disappointing.

I could have told you that he would do. I certainly wasn't part of the gang that were teary eyed at his departure from Sunbury.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Flood will be tough to replace, Owen Williams looks like he could be a natural successor but it may be a touch early for him. Certainly Flood is pivotal to the team and to lose him would be a blow. Might free up substantial wage cap though and if we could pick up a Heathcote for example on less wages in the summer we could end up looking pretty strong still.

Worth noting Bowden is out of contract in the summer as well and a 10/12 signing of real worth would strengthen us nicely.

From a Scots perspective I'd be delighted if Heathcote were to move to Tigers. I hear that Gold prefers Ford and the Orange One, so he may spend much of this season warming the bench. Good potential there.

If Edinburgh stall this season then I can see Matt Scott looking elsewhere.

Cockers stated on the Rugby Hour on Radio Leicester that he was going no where. So unless sacked would be surprised if he left. Simon Cohen (CEO of LRFC) has repeatedly sais that he wants Cockers to be at Leicester for many years.

Ozzy3213 wrote:I could have told you that he would do.  I certainly wasn't part of the gang that were teary eyed at his departure from Sunbury.

you could have warned us

After all look at all the top quality former tigers we have given you over the years.

Like Horak, Buckland, Phibbs...hmm not doing my case much good

He looked half decent against us I thought, but whenever he has played he has looked lightweight and gone missing from matches for large chunks. Some really skillful stuff - but that really isn't enough.

He's a fair weather player LT. Great when you're on top and makes some really eye catching plays. He does also however spend fair amounts of time injured, and I've not seen him take a game by the scruff of the neck when the chips are down.

Good player, but nowhere near a great one.

I think Bowden may get moved on at the end of the season. Hempetema or whatever his name is can play either 12 or 13, weighs in at 15 stone and played age grade for Wellington and NZ then in the Waratahs academy. If he shines then he is younger and cheaper than Bowden.

Bowden was a rushed signing after Twelvetrees went back on his verbal agreement of a new contract and he hasn't shown form anywhere near good enough to worry Allen.

BLB technically speaking it's LFC as on Leicester Football Club not LRFC but yes I wouldn't expect us to surrender out AP winning coach without a fight. Cockers is unlikely to stab the club in the back and try to engineer a move either.

Clermont has also been linked to Todd Blackadder (!) so not sure what to think of those rumours. They want to have the new coach signed by early november though which will make it complicate for someone who already have a job... ah well Robbie Deans it is then maybe he would bring cooper in his luggage  

formerly known as Sam wrote:Cockers would be a loss. To be honest I thought an Irish province would swoop for Burkey before we lost Cockers and Burke would be easier to replace (step up Mr Mauger). To replace Cockers we'd probably give Burke the DOR job then either bring in Rowntree over Blaze as head coach with Blaze staying as assistant forwards coach or promote Blaze and bring in Chuter as assistant forwards coach. Worst of the worst would be if Cockers went to Clermont and took Burke with him. We would be in serious bother then.

Can't see Cockers thinking of England. He has no supporters in the RFU and a couple if enemies in charge of other clubs that wouldn't welcome conversations with him over player release.

Flood will be tough to replace, Owen Williams looks like he could be a natural successor but it may be a touch early for him. Certainly Flood is pivotal to the team and to lose him would be a blow. Might free up substantial wage cap though and if we could pick up a Heathcote for example on less wages in the summer we could end up looking pretty strong still.

Worth noting Bowden is out of contract in the summer as well and a 10/12 signing of real worth would strengthen us nicely.

I think that by the end of the season you will be not so worried about Flood going, as Owen is a real class player, and IMO can't be far of Floods level at the moment.

Clermont are casting the net wide for a successor it seems. Given the wealth of playing talent but the lack of silverware It's no wonder they want to get it right. The next coach is going to need to help rejuvenate the side and they won't want year after year of different coaches with transitional phases. They'll want things up and running quickly.

SS, Williams has looked alright in preseason and his cameo vs Worcester. Not quite up to Floody but there's certainly potential and he's already popular on the offy. By the end of the RWC I imagine he'll be first choice 10 but at the minute I'm not sure he's ready for some of the big games we'd look to Toby in. Remember Flood is club captain and has been ensconed in that 10 shirt for about 5 years now, it'll be a big ask to overtake him inside one season. If he opts to go then I hope Williams will be promoted rather than us signing someone to step in though.

formerly known as Sam wrote:SS, Williams has looked alright in preseason and his cameo vs Worcester. Not quite up to Floody but there's certainly potential and he's already popular on the offy. By the end of the RWC I imagine he'll be first choice 10 but at the minute I'm not sure he's ready for some of the big games we'd look to Toby in. Remember Flood is club captain and has been ensconed in that 10 shirt for about 5 years now, it'll be a big ask to overtake him inside one season. If he opts to go then I hope Williams will be promoted rather than us signing someone to step in though.

Are you calling him an alcoholic? Your probably right about him needing time to prove himself, although I think if he gets the chances (which he should do) then he will take them, but totally agree he will/should be promoted to the ten shirt should Flood leave.

Well, at least we know one thing about the replacement 10.
 
He won't be French.

They will throw money at Lambie, Cruden or Barrett - you can count on it.

There's no way Cruden or Barrett will leave NZ. Carter is looking fragile and they are in the All Black squad and getting caps. If they leave they'll be international outcasts. Lambie on the other hand may well be tempted given he isn't getting much gametime for the Boks and moving to France doesn't seem to see you banished from the international scene with them.

If Robbie Deans is coming in and James O'Connor is still looking for a club then that might be one that could work.

If they are going to throw cash at Flood they are looking for a 10 now rather than developing one so Toulon, Tolouse and Clermont are all going to make the market interesting.

Offy is short for the official forum. Tigers forum is made up of generally the older and more one eyed fans. Bleydn Jones is well remembered in Leicester and signing another Welsh 10 was a popular move especially one with similar physical and playing attributes to Flood. If Flood goes I'm hoping we sign that 10/12 option (ideally Heathcote) to replace Bowden at the same time and then we would be fairly well covered and could maybe swoop for a better 8 to replace Waldrom who is also out of contract.

formerly known as Sam wrote:There's no way Cruden or Barrett will leave NZ. Carter is looking fragile and they are in the All Black squad and getting caps. If they leave they'll be international outcasts. Lambie on the other hand may well be tempted given he isn't getting much gametime for the Boks and moving to France doesn't seem to see you banished from the international scene with them.

If Robbie Deans is coming in and James O'Connor is still looking for a club then that might be one that could work.

If they are going to throw cash at Flood they are looking for a 10 now rather than developing one so Toulon, Tolouse and Clermont are all going to make the market interesting.

Offy is short for the official forum. Tigers forum is made up of generally the older and more one eyed fans. Bleydn Jones is well remembered in Leicester and signing another Welsh 10 was a popular move especially one with similar physical and playing attributes to Flood. If Flood goes I'm hoping we sign that 10/12 option (ideally Heathcote) to replace Bowden at the same time and then we would be fairly well covered and could maybe swoop for a better 8 to replace Waldrom who is also out of contract.

I've always thought that someone like Luke McAllister would suit Tigers. He must be fed up with France by now. Alternatively if you're going young, I would personally love to see Heathcote at Leicester (he doesn't deserve to be behind Ford and the Permatanned Plonker in the current pecking order) or someone like Matt Toomua would be an amazing steal. Who wants to play for the Wallabies at the moment?

Clermont barely "splash the cash" unlike other french teams nowadays...that was one of the reason why Cotter was unhappy end of last season. their only real signing this summer was some 9/10 called lacrampe who's barely bench material. if money was to be spent it would have to be first on some new locks and backrowers as otherwise they will end up playing in soem sort of old boys tournament in 2 years time. AWJ and Ben Morgan have been recently linked to them.

"Thierry Lacrampe".

Sounds like a Peter Sellers or Spike Milligan character.

George Carlin wrote:"Thierry Lacrampe".

Sounds like a Peter Sellers or Spike Milligan character.

almost  

"La crampe" is also the french name of that dodgy Pulp Fiction character which is known as "the gimp" in the orignal version

Aren't SOB and Heaslip supposedly on the French radar. They'd fit in well at Clermont. With James set to leave that leaves Clermont with only Skrella at 10 making their need for a replacement a real priority.

Luke McAllister is too overrated and too expensive for Tigers. He would probably do the job but I think we're more likely to look at younger and cheaper options. Unless of course the young English/Kiwi we've signed turns out to be a massive unpolished diamond in which case we may just sign a very cheap experienced 10 as backup. Another Staunton esque player in case of injury as our academy options are very young in that position.

Now McAllister down to Clermont, that could work or Lambie 10 and McAllister 12 for Tolouse could give them some tasty options.

Clermont are also trying to sign SOB and Heaslip, aswell as Halfpenny and AWJ.

Skrela retired this summer. they really have little options at 10. they should have signed Lopez who went for Perpignan. No clue why they didnt. maybe they will unhearth someone from their "academy " although I dont see who.
Nonu currently offered to various french clubs. too expensive it would seem according to Toulon

In a few years time there will be no french players in the top 4-6 clubs.

A club of Clermont's size should have a great academy. With their resources they should be developing another generation. They've previously done well with the likes of Rougerie.

Surely It's cheaper and better publicity to have home grown stars?

Didn't Fofana come from Clermont?

Fofana and Malzieu are both Clermont developed. A lot of their squad are long serving and getting on a bit. Whomever comes in next is going to have to do a lot of work bringing in younger players and rejuvinating the team. The need to develop a genuine plan B once the power game doesn't work will be high on the list of priorities, individual brilliance is not a plan B.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Clermont are also trying to sign SOB and Heaslip, aswell as Halfpenny and AWJ.

Ridiculous team!

Bit harsh on Bowden here. I thought he always looked classy when given the chance. Though that hasn't been often due to injuries, and Allen's superb consistency. I'd say he has the best passing game of anyone at the club. Wouldn't be surprised to see him move on though, as he could get more gametime elsewhere.

Flood is a tricky one. I can definitely see him leaving at this point in his career, but Tigers will do everything to keep him, so it all comes down to what Flood thinks ultimately. He doesn't strike me as a guy who would take the money and run, but could easily move for the new experiences and challenges.

And Cockers? No chance of him leaving unless he is pushed, imho.

Bowden just won't put his body on the line and the flashes of real skill are not consistent enough to warrant selection.

Flood's future will come down to England I feel. He's a good 10 who still offers a more rounded game than either Farrell or Burns and should be regularly selected. Lancaster, however, wants a young squad and both Farrell (with Daddy's support as well) and Burns are younger. Ford is showing up well for Bath and controls a game better than Burns and Farrell with a passing game that makes Farrell's look like an old school front rowers. If he can get his points kicking down then Flood may well suddenly be 4th choice and opt to top up his tan and his pension.

At 28 he could sign a short term deal to stay at Tigers then head overseas post RWC for a long term deal.