Roberts likely do miss AIs, who to replace him ?

First topic message reminder :

Scot Williams ? Bishop ? Try out one of the Dragons centres ? BOD ?*

*WhatWouldKeithDo

Jhamer25 wrote:
I forgot that the Aus game was again out of the IRB window, but it will again depend on who the clubs will release because last year we a few foreign clubs did release our boys.

Only French based players, not English ones.

Yh there has been a good relationship with the French clubs which will hopefully continue so the ones most likely to miss the Oz game will be James, Gill and North

Thankfully.

Not meaning scare mongre but I can see this getting a lot worse if nothing is done regarding the PRL and LNRs actions over the HEC.

We could see three times our current player drain.. No access to them unless IRB enforced and as we have already seen them do to Sourh Sea Islander players, convince them to opt out of international rugby.

Toulon tried to do the same to Henson in 2011.

It has to be stopped.

Measteg,

The Pacific Islanders' issues run deep due to lack of infrastructure, professionalism, money, the relative weakness of their Unions- basically issues which will in no way affect the WRU or Welsh rugby in the same way. No French club could demand a player sacrifice playing for Wales and expect to get anything other than a letter from the players' legal representative or to be laughed at. The WRU is one of the wealthiest Union's in the world. If their prime asset, which is the Welsh national team (honest), was drained in such a way, they would be forced to flex their muscles; even if it were legally possible to bar a citizen of the EU from representing their country?

I'm not doubting this is a serious rebalancing of power, and it's time to think very carefully where the clubs and Wales position themselves, but I don't think this will have a huge effect on the international team, at least in the very short term.

I agree with you it will hopefully not in the short term. But it will in the long term and quicker than you think.

We have nearly all out prized internationals contracts up at the end of the season at all regions. They could all go abroad, they will if the regions have no top class competition like the HEC.

Absolutely, but then I think the interests of the international team are suffering immensely right now, in several ways. Lack of exposure for the young players to the kind of class of Ryan Jones, Martyn Williams, and Stephen Jones that the current crop had a few years ago means the Rabo varies greatly in intensity of matches. Too often players are injured between international breaks, and there are things you can only learn in the intensity of a competitive match, and there are young players who could have learnt off Roberts etc. had they played more often domestically.

I also feel that, likewise, the dearth of quality NWQ is having arguably a bigger impact on youngsters coming through. When David Lyons was at the Scarlets, Ben Morgan, Josh Turnbull, and Rob McCusker broke through and had great guidance into the professional game. It's little surprise the latter two have stagnated when asked to lead the side on their own when neither good enough nor assertive enough. If the Welsh players are to come through the ranks into teams that are two or three metaphorical 'levels' beneath the standard of the top English and most of the French sides, it will mean they will not be ready come international day.

Another factor is the obsession with size over footballers, a global trend but one certainly not discouraged by Gatland.


So whilst I do think there are worrying factors for Welsh rugby, players going to play at a higher standard of competition isn't necessarily one of them. It's if they don't come back, which they won't, to pass on their knowledge (a la Stephen Jones post Clermont, where he developed into a world class 10) to their regions' players, then that is an issue worth considering, but I think, structurally, we face bigger problems, and this new slicing of the pie could determine, and perhaps confirm, that Wales isn't a big player in the elite European club game.

miaow wrote:Absolutely, but then I think the interests of the international team are suffering immensely right now, in several ways. Lack of exposure for the young players to the kind of class of Ryan Jones, Martyn Williams, and Stephen Jones that the current crop had a few years ago means the Rabo varies greatly in intensity of matches. Too often players are injured between international breaks, and there are things you can only learn in the intensity of a competitive match, and there are young players who could have learnt off Roberts etc. had they played more often domestically.

I also feel that, likewise, the dearth of quality NWQ is having arguably a bigger impact on youngsters coming through. When David Lyons was at the Scarlets, Ben Morgan, Josh Turnbull, and Rob McCusker broke through and had great guidance into the professional game. It's little surprise the latter two have stagnated when asked to lead the side on their own when neither good enough nor assertive enough. If the Welsh players are to come through the ranks into teams that are two or three metaphorical 'levels' beneath the standard of the top English and most of the French sides, it will mean they will not be ready come international day.

Another factor is the obsession with size over footballers, a global trend but one certainly not discouraged by Gatland.


So whilst I do think there are worrying factors for Welsh rugby, players going to play at a higher standard of competition isn't necessarily one of them. It's if they don't come back, which they won't, to pass on their knowledge (a la Stephen Jones post Clermont, where he developed into a world class 10) to their regions' players, then that is an issue worth considering, but I think, structurally, we face bigger problems, and this new slicing of the pie could determine, and perhaps confirm, that Wales isn't a big player in the elite European club game.

Wales won't be a player at the international table either if the ERC run competition fails.

Anyhow lets get this back on track...

So what is the best centre combo should we be missing Roberts...???

Scot JD ?

Shingler JD ?

Beck JD ?

Tuilagi BOD

Probably Beck with Jon outside. Form over the next few weeks will surely decide it though.

With Gatland having already proved he likes established combinations I would imagine it will be 2 from 3 out of the Scarlet guys.

For the Oz game could we possibly see 5 of the 7 backs being Scarlets

9 Davies
10 Priestland
11 Li Williams
12 JD/Shingler
13 Sc Williams/JD

I'd go Sam 6 Tips 7 Faletau 8 - R Jones on Bench

Munkian,

Am sure Dan said he had release clause in his contract

Hope so !

bedfordwelsh wrote:Munkian,

Am sure Dan said he had release clause in his contract

Roberts too, if he's fit...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23686635

It will only be the PRL trying to stop Wales put out a full team.

Which is fair enough if they didnt have a clause in their contracts

Wales Online have done an article

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/who-candidates-replace-wales-centre-6032254

For those advocating the Williams, Davies midfield; there's just one problem. It has been a poor partnership. Scott is too erratic IMO, and he's showing it this season already. Davies is obvisouly nailed on at 13, I'd rather Beck or even Bishop to start at 12 with him over SW.

I'd really like to see some younger uncapped players in the squad like Jack Dixon and Cory Allen, need to build centre strength before the WC

munkian wrote:I'd really like to see some younger uncapped players in the squad like Jack Dixon and Cory Allen, need to build centre strength before the WC

I'd like to see Allen play for the Blues a bit this season before anything, Owen Williams has been playing pretty well however.

The tour to Japan was a huge wasted oppotunity to give our best young players some exerience.

Dr bob injured again . Scott Williams should get the nod but i do like the thought of George north slotting in there but he does that tho when on the wing . give him the twelve shirt and lets see walker or liam on tho wing for puma game perhaps

The Saint wrote:For those advocating the Williams, Davies midfield; there's just one problem. It has been a poor partnership. Scott is too erratic IMO, and he's showing it this season already. Davies is obvisouly nailed on at 13, I'd rather Beck or even Bishop to start at 12 with him over SW.

Saint,

I agree that JD is nailed on but not necessarily at 13, he only plays there for Wales to accommodate Roberts at the mo. He plays 12 for the Scarlets so could move there with Williams at 13 or as you say he could stay at 13 and one of the others come in at 12

From what I seen during the Lions tour, Davies was better at 13. Gatland could move him to 12 again though. And Jack Dixon is actually a good shout, he's Gats type of 12. Good at the breakdown too.

The Saint wrote:From what I seen during the Lions tour, Davies was better at 13. Gatland could move him to 12 again though. And Jack Dixon is actually a good shout, he's Gats type of 12. Good at the breakdown too.

Dixon would be a great inclusion, as would Cory Allen if he can hit his last year form early on return for the Blues. Steve Shingler could give a different option, kicking ability at 12, good game management too. And another top class goal kicker in reserve.

Beck hasn't impressed too much for the Ospreys over the last six months. Shows great talent but not on his best form. Good player though and has been in the Welsh Squad before, missed Japan through injury.

if davies is moved to 12, then wales could possibly look at 13s like gareth maule, owen williams, dafydd howells, pat leach, ross wardle, cory allen, hallam amos, steffan hughes, scott williams, andrew bishop, george north, steven shingler and so on?

bedfordwelsh wrote:

The Saint wrote:For those advocating the Williams, Davies midfield; there's just one problem. It has been a poor partnership. Scott is too erratic IMO, and he's showing it this season already. Davies is obvisouly nailed on at 13, I'd rather Beck or even Bishop to start at 12 with him over SW.

Saint,

I agree that JD is nailed on but not necessarily at 13, he only plays there for Wales to accommodate Roberts at the mo.  He plays 12 for the Scarlets so could move there with Williams at 13 or as you say he could stay at 13 and one of the others come in at 12

No, Davies is definitely an outside centre.

Also, what price on a recall for Gav?

miaow wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

The Saint wrote:For those advocating the Williams, Davies midfield; there's just one problem. It has been a poor partnership. Scott is too erratic IMO, and he's showing it this season already. Davies is obvisouly nailed on at 13, I'd rather Beck or even Bishop to start at 12 with him over SW.

Saint,

I agree that JD is nailed on but not necessarily at 13, he only plays there for Wales to accommodate Roberts at the mo.  He plays 12 for the Scarlets so could move there with Williams at 13 or as you say he could stay at 13 and one of the others come in at 12

No, Davies is definitely an outside centre.

Also, what price on a recall for Gav?

He played really well for Bath RFC the last two weeks, but could do with a bit more game time... Possible though.

Really well is pushing it but then he must be rusty

Didn't think he started the first game? Watched the ITV highlights and he put in a big hit on some big Tongan prop, as well as giving a try scoring pass to Banahan. Just keep him injury free and see if he doesn't lose it up top down to boredom, that'll be the big test. Injuries will give him the excuse to just blow it all off.

munkian wrote:Really well is pushing it but then he must be rusty

He missed most of pre-season training, but has had one and a half games and in those games is showing the timing and sense of space he always did at his best. If his fitness holds out and they continue to pick him at 12 then he could well be an option.

international197 wrote:if davies is moved to 12, then wales could possibly look at 13s like gareth maule, owen williams, dafydd howells, pat leach, ross wardle, cory allen, hallam amos, steffan hughes, scott williams, andrew bishop, george north, steven shingler and so on?

Look at them how? Not all of them will be playing, so no point in listing all the available names you can think of, especially premiership winger Dafydd Howells.