Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

A. Edinburgh
 

 
1. Pre-season
 
Fri 30 Aug 2013, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 15 - 5 Newcastle Falcons
 
Fri 23 Aug 2013, 19:30
Northampton Saints 24 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby
 
2. 2013/2014 Season - Played
 
Sat 7 Sep, 19:15
Munster Rugby 34 - 23 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 13 Newport Gwent Dragons
 
Sat 21 Sep, 18:30
Ospreys 44 - 10 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 9 - 22 Scarlets

Sun 6 Oct, 14:05
Cardiff Blues 29 - 12 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 25 Oct, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 13 Benetton Treviso

Fri 1 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 23 Zebre

Fri 22 Nov 19:05
Ulster Rugby 41 - 17 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 29 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 43 - 10 Connacht

3. 2013/2014 Season - Next 3 Games
 
Fri 20 Dec 19:35
Edinburgh Rugby v Leinster

Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors

Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby

B. Glasgow
 

 
1. Pre-season
 
Sat 31 Aug 2013, 15:00
Exeter Chiefs 26 - 29 Glasgow Warriors
 
2. 2013/2014 Season
 
Fri 6 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 22 - 15 Cardiff Blues
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 20 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 12 - 6 Leinster Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:30
Zebre 17 - 24 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 5 Oct, 18:30
Scarlets 12 - 17 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 25 Oct, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 6 - 13 Munster Rugby

Sat 2 Nov, 17:00
Connacht Rugby 12 - 19 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 22 Nov, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 8 - 23 Newport Gwent Dragons

Fri 29 Nov, 19:05
Ospreys 16 - 28 Glasgow Warriors

3. 2013/2014 Season - Next 3 Games
 
Fri 20 Dec, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors   v   Benetton Treviso

Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors

Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby
 
Bearing in mind the above - what I'd like to know for each team is:
 
1. How is the season likely to go?
2. What are the teams' strengths?
3. What are the teams' weaknesses?
4. What can be done to improve matters for each team?
 
Any jingoism, sledging or graceless kicking of anyone whilst they are up or down will see posts deleted.
 
Be gracious and be constructive.

[Notch]

None taken George. I'm a massive fan of Solomons. If it wasn't for him we might still be pootling around at the bottom of the table in an amateurish sort of way.

Not that he can take credit for the current side, his legacy was taken on by Mark McCall and subsequently squandered after a league winning season, but a lot of guys like Trimble and Bowe owe a lot of their early development to him and he instilled the sense of pride in our home record that lasts to this day.

He is 100% the right man to take Edinburgh forward.

[GLove39]

In other news lutui has been banned for 2 weeks for a 'reckless yet unintentional' tackle.

Poor call.

[RDW]

I didn't think it was that bad - not a clear cut forearm

[VinceWLB]

2 weeks seems fair to me, poor Tom Smith is going to be out longer than that.

[RDW]

Think it's fair to point out that lutui's input didn't directly have anything to do with his injury - the forearm wasn't that thing that caused the injury

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Yes it seems that Glasgow = Scotland and Edinburgh = Tri-nation rejects  

[Solid8]

2 weeks seems fair to me, poor Tom Smith is going to be out longer than that.

So every player who makes a tackle that results in another player getting injured should receive a ban? Jog on!

Lutui had Tom Smith lined up, Dickinson tackled him from the side and then swung round behind him, Smith was pivoting on the leg that got injured and that resulted in his head/neck being where Lutui's arm was when he was already committed. If Lutui's arm had not been coming round then it would have been a card for a deliberate shoulder charge. Smith's injury, while unfortunate, is a fact of life if you play a full contact sport like rugby.

[VinceWLB]

I know the forearm didn't directly caused the injury, however Lutui "tackle" attempt looked pretty high to me and i'm not sure Smith would have pivoted like that if Lutui had gone lower. But yeah very unfortunate.
All this to say it would have been a bit of a joke had Lutui got away with nothing. Thats why i think 2 weeks seems fair.

[reallybored]

Excited for the AIs to come round, the games are in a good order and the opposition are ideal for our development.  Very optimistic about the potential squad, assuming the Edinburgh trio (Rennie, Laidlaw, Scott) return at somepoint before November.

Grant, Murray, Welsh, Low, Cross
Ford, MacArthur, Hall
Gray, Hamilton, Swinson, Gray, Gilchrist
Brown, Harley, Strokosch, Rennie, Barclay
Beattie, Denton, Vernon
Laidlaw, Cusiter, Kennedy
Jackson, Heathcote, (Weir?)
Scott, Dunbar, Bennett, De Luca
Maitland, Visser, Lamont, Seymour
Hogg, Tonks

I genuinely think we should be aiming to win all three; Japan is a must obviously, we ran SA close during the summer with a much weaker squad and I'd back our pack plus Laidlaw's boot against the Aussies on a dark November night.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Excited for the AIs to come round, the games are in a good order and the opposition are ideal for our development.  Very optimistic about the potential squad, assuming the Edinburgh trio (Rennie, Laidlaw, Scott) return at somepoint before November.

Grant, Murray, Welsh, Low, Cross
Ford, MacArthur, Hall
Gray, Hamilton, Swinson, Gray, Gilchrist
Brown, Harley, Strokosch, Rennie, Barclay
Beattie, Denton, Vernon
Laidlaw, Cusiter, Kennedy
Jackson, Heathcote, (Weir?)
Scott, Dunbar, Bennett, De Luca Taylor
Maitland, Visser, Lamont, Seymour
Hogg, Tonks

I genuinely think we should be aiming to win all three; Japan is a must obviously, we ran SA close during the summer with a much weaker squad and I'd back our pack plus Laidlaw's boot against the Aussies on a dark November night.

Fixed that for you, rb, no charge!

[Solid8]

I know the forearm didn't directly caused the injury, however Lutui "tackle" attempt looked pretty high to me and i'm not sure Smith would have pivoted like that if Lutui had gone lower. But yeah very unfortunate.
All this to say it would have been a bit of a joke had Lutui got away with nothing. Thats why i think 2 weeks seems fair.

Nonsense.

[Solid8]

Agreed Solid.
 
Notch - Grandpappy Solomons has said that he's going to cut away dead wood after a season. To do that he needs to have a basis for comparison and so if that's the exercise, I have no problem with him getting new people in now. This season is basically an audition piece for everyone. And it ought to be.
 
The hidden factor here is that it also helps Edinburgh as a team look ambitious and create competition and collegiality in the squad. Edinburgh's squad is the biggest in the league now, it has to be. Solomons knows that a lot of key players are on the last year of their contract and he has to demonstrate that the club is going places to keep them. And he should be worried - clubs will be wheeling trollies of cash round to Tim Visser and Matt Scotts' houses at the end of this season.
 
That said, some of Pappy's signings have clearly been made because they represented a chance to get an excellent player over to Scotland - most clubs would want Cornell du Preez, for example.
 
Ultimately, you have to trust in the Wisdom Of Solomons . The man has demonstrated over many years his ability to make silk purses out of sow's ears. No offence to Ulster.

Two questions:

1. Do any true blue (well black and red but it doesn't read as well) Edinburgh fans think that there will be a significant uplift in performance this season, if so when will it come? I'm worried that if there are too many showings like the one against Cardiff the Squad's collective head will be permanently down and I cannot see a player in the squad like Maitland who has a great attitude that he is able to pass on to his colleagues, thus improving morale.

2. Do you think that any of the established big Edinburgh names will fail the audition?

[funnyExiledScot]

1. Second half of the season is realistic in my view (starting off with two thumping wins against Glasgow). By that stage the new signings should have settled in and the coaching regime should have been able to get the new systems etc. up and running.

2. Depends on what you mean by big names. I think Ross Ford will be moved on as he isn't earning his salary on the field. I suspect also that Parker, Cox, Basilia, Leck, Francis, Atiga, Jones and Cuthbert (already I hear you say) will be for the chop.

I also fear that we'll lose Matt Scott as well, who may feel that in order to realise his potential he'll need to move to a club with European Cup (or whatever it's going to be called) aspirations (i.e. a team that actually wins the ball for more than 30% of the game). We may also have to concede losing Visser as well, again not through our own choosing.

[nickj]

Blimey FES. Isn't that a bit pessimistic? Losing Scott, Visser and Ford would be pretty disappointing and a damning verdict on the state of pro rugby in Scotland. I agree that Ford needs to go to regain his mojo, but I'd hope Scott would stay for another season, at least. He's done b*gger all yet. Visser could do with repaying a bit of faith too. Edinburgh really need his tries. I

[Solid8]

I have to agree with nickj about Scott and Visser.  Also the two jeff clubs that habitually reward wingers that have a complete inability to tackle (Wasps and Sarries) both already have a full complement of non-tackling wingers!

[funnyExiledScot]

Ford will be one of the highest paid players, and quite frankly his performances for Edinburgh have been no better, and frequently worse, than Steven Lawrie. When he's on his game he is a brilliant player, but we're not getting value for money from him, and accordingly I think a move could work well for all parties.

Not sure Visser has much to repay. He's been our star player for three years and scored bucket loads of tries for us. Imagine how many he'd have scored in an Ulster or Leinster jersey. I'd love him to stay, but unless Solomons can show progress this season, I wouldn't blame him for looking elsewhere.

You're right about Scott, he hasn't done a huge amount for Edinburgh yet, and in the same way that I felt Richie Gray owed Glasgow a couple of extra seasons, I feel the same about Scott. However, we cannot escape the fact that his best performances came in the HC run when Edinburgh were playing good rugby, and in a Scotland jersey. His performances in the summer for Scotland were of the highest order, and when given half decent ball he's a very good player. My concern is that he won't develop further at Edinburgh when his role is to defend, defend and defend some more (often having to cover for our tackle shy half backs as well as his own channel). Whilst his defensive instincts will improve in an Edinburgh jersey, I'm not convinced his attacking credentials will be enhanced. He is a hugely promising player, a centre with both power and distribution skills. Further strong showings in a Scotland jersey this year and I suspect he'll be a player in demand down south and in France.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Ford will be one of the highest paid players, and quite frankly his performances for Edinburgh have been no better, and frequently worse, than Steven Lawrie. When he's on his game he is a brilliant player, but we're not getting value for money from him, and accordingly I think a move could work well for all parties.

Not sure Visser has much to repay. He's been our star player for three years and scored bucket loads of tries for us. Imagine how many he'd have scored in an Ulster or Leinster jersey. I'd love him to stay, but unless Solomons can show progress this season, I wouldn't blame him for looking elsewhere.

You're right about Scott, he hasn't done a huge amount for Edinburgh yet, and in the same way that I felt Richie Gray owed Glasgow a couple of extra seasons, I feel the same about Scott. However, we cannot escape the fact that his best performances came in the HC run when Edinburgh were playing good rugby, and in a Scotland jersey. His performances in the summer for Scotland were of the highest order, and when given half decent ball he's a very good player. My concern is that he won't develop further at Edinburgh when his role is to defend, defend and defend some more (often having to cover for our tackle shy half backs as well as his own channel). Whilst his defensive instincts will improve in an Edinburgh jersey, I'm not convinced his attacking credentials will be enhanced. He is a hugely promising player, a centre with both power and distribution skills. Further strong showings in a Scotland jersey this year and I suspect he'll be a player in demand down south and in France.

Long live hyperbole!

[funnyExiledScot]

Go on, say something positive about an Edinburgh player. I dare you!

I've heard that two eyes are better than one.....  

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Go on, say something positive about an Edinburgh player. I dare you!

I've heard that two eyes are better than one.....  

Ross Rennie shows a lot of promise when not injured - there you go!

[tigertattie]

Go on, say something positive about an Edinburgh player. I dare you!

I've heard that two eyes are better than one.....  

Ross Rennie shows a lot of promise when not injured - there you go!

Rennie is more   than Bennett!

[reallybored]

Rennie is Scotland's best player when fit.

Hogg would be a close second.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Go on, say something positive about an Edinburgh player. I dare you!

I've heard that two eyes are better than one.....  

Ross Rennie shows a lot of promise when not injured - there you go!

Rennie is more   than Bennett!

No, he's not the messiah, he's just a very injured boy

[funnyExiledScot]

Go on, say something positive about an Edinburgh player. I dare you!

I've heard that two eyes are better than one.....  

Ross Rennie shows a lot of promise when not injured - there you go!

You see. That's wasn't too painful was it!

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Rennie is Scotland's best player when fit.

Hogg would be a close second.

WTF    

You will be saying 2nd best is De Luca or Denton next.  

[GLove39]

Saw that Edinburgh were asking for song suggestions to accompany their team announcement videos. Wonder if they'll go for this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjedLeVGcfE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Saw that Edinburgh were asking for song suggestions to accompany their team announcement videos. Wonder if they'll go for this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjedLeVGcfE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This is much more appropriate for the MFLs to run out to :- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_spj5LJ08y8

Substitute "Muuuurayfield" or "EEEEEEEEdinburgh" for the title and there you have it  

[George Carlin]

Saw that Edinburgh were asking for song suggestions to accompany their team announcement videos. Wonder if they'll go for this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjedLeVGcfE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

. Just snow blind with potential suggestions. Born To Lose by Ray Charles? Tragedy by the Bee Gees? I think that it really has to be the Benny Hill Theme Tune.

[bsando]

Good thread GC! (Are they ever bad?)

1. How is the season likely to go?

Edinburgh - I am hopeful that Edinburgh will see the light this season. I think the signings so far have been a vast improvement on last years. I like Solomons and think he will be a good coach, although he'll probably need some time to get the team into better shape/discipline. Heineken cup is going to be very tough, but I think Edinburgh will be competitive. 

Glasgow - so far it looks very promising. But there is still lots of work to do. They should be pushing for a top 4 rabbo spot again, but the big goal is the HC, if they can make it through their group that would be a decent achievement. It is entirely possible in my opinion, but set piece needs to be better.

2. What are the teams' strengths?


I think Edinburgh is still a team that can score try's when they combine go forward ball with quick hands across the field. Visser only needs a sniff of an opportunity and he'll do great things, NDL and Scott cold be a very good centre combo. Edinburghs biggest strength just now is they're still awaiting a few key players to return, therefore they may well be overlooked by bigger teams. I see a few shock wins occurring once du Preez, Scott and Laidlaw are in the starting XV. 


I think glasgows strengths are in their depth of squad and ball running skills. But Matawalu is undoubtedly the biggest asset to the team. Lose him and Glasgow are still a good team, but scores will be closer and winning BP's unlikely. This may effect HC chances and top 4 finish. Defence is a huge strength as well, Matt Taylor has done a very good job. 27 mins no ball vs Ulster only to win the game with a last gasp try  says a lot about Glasgows intent this season.

3. What are the teams' weaknesses?


Edinburgh - Lack of basic skills and motivation. It seems Edinburgh love to put their heads down when things go wrong. I wish they could be more positive at times.


Glasgow - Set piece. It has been sloppy so far this season. Jackson, he has been hot and cold and I find him an infuriating player to watch at times, mainly because he can be so good when on form.

4. What can be done to improve matters for each team?


Edinburgh just need to solidify their strengths and eliminate their weaknesses and I am sure that would really make a big difference. Better basic skills, better set piece, no need to reinvent the wheel. I think Edinburgh need quicker ball, that should be a goal from them. Each player just needs to improve their game slightly and the team should benefit as a result of this.


Glasgow need to emulate the great European teams this season. Little or no basic errors, good set piece.

[reallybored]

Rennie is Scotland's best player when fit.

Hogg would be a close second.

WTF    

You will be saying 2nd best is De Luca or Denton next.  

Just my opinion.  Who would you say is?

Realise he hasn't played a lot for Scotland but when he has, he's been top drawer.  When you look closely and watch him during a game, you see the impact he's having in defence, how often he makes a nuisance of himself at the breakdown and his linking playing in attack.  His stats compared to other top open-sides are impressive, just darn frustrating that he's alway crocked.

I genuinely think Hogg has the attributes to be the best full-back in the world over the next few year.  Isn't there yet be the speed of his development has been fantastic, if he can keep it up he'll go down as one of our best ever players.

Outside those two, I'd probably say our best 5 are

Maitland
Gray
Brown

But Grant is f ing quality too, and Beattie when he can be bothered is top notch, Scott has potential to be really really good, Laidlaw is handy wee player and world class kicker, Visser is a very efficient finisher and obviously there's the

[funnyExiledScot]

  isn't a Scotland player just yet, although I'm sure he's already pencilled in as ASBOs player of the 6 Nations....

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

No feicin pencil about it!  

[TJ]

Glasgow fans - whats the score with getting decent seats? Everytime I try to buy tickets when they first go on sale the best seats are already gone - Season ticket holders?

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Glasgow fans - whats the score with getting decent seats?  Everytime I try to buy tickets when they first go on sale the best seats are already gone - Season ticket holders?  

Thats it TJ - they had to stop selling season tickets for that reason apparently - good sign for the future though. North stand back row row I or J is worth trying.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

  isn't a Scotland player just yet, although I'm sure he's already pencilled in as ASBOs player of the 6 Nations....

fES - he will have spray painted it onto his outside wall- you can take the boy out of Glasgow ...etc....etc  

[George Carlin]

Well, I don't think that there's anything that came out of the games yesterday that would cause anyone to revise what they've written above.
 
Glasgow did well, scored a couple of good tries but lost focus in the last quarter and all of the reports of the game I've read said that our biggest problem was lack of control and the inability to build phases. Ascarate was brilliant all game and his/Maitlands' passing was what created the holes for the first and third tries. Great to see we have genuine link men - I would include Alex Dunbar in that group too.
 
FES has kindly provided an assessment of Edinburgh on the other thread. The sooner we get our new signings on the ground and in training the the better. Clearly. Says a lot that it shows every game how much we miss Laidlaw but I think that we could lose Ford with barely a ripple.

[George Carlin]

Found a new emoticon suitable for general use on almost all Edinburgh threads:

[GLove39]

Found a new emoticon suitable for general use on almost all Edinburgh threads:

A spitting image that of Heyenke Meyer raging away in his little box! Who'd have thought there'd be an international coach more animated than Robinson?

[GLove39]

Concerning comment from the Scotsman website

the chat on the club circuit is that any Edinburgh player that tries to run the ball out of their own 22 will be fined by solomons

 

[funnyExiledScot]

I suspect that rumour may be accurate. My impression is that Solomons is imposing a very strict gameplan - kick to touch from 22, box kick if between 22 and half way, run the ball if between half way and opposition 22 and pick and go if in opposition 22. Pretty sure we stuck closely to that regime against the Scarlet.

We all identified defence as a key building block for Solomons, and despite my reservations over a "play by numbers" regime as described above, the defence and physicality from Edinburgh on Friday was improved (VDW, Basilia and Denton in particular). I'm also encouraged by the game time Kennedy, Hildalgo-Clyne and Leonard are getting. Promising Scottish youngsters in pivotal positions getting good pro rugby experience.

I would also add that of the four games played, we were never in a million years going to beat Munster and Ospreys away from home. They are better sides and comfortably ahead of us in terms of development. We beat the Dragons, and whilst losing to the Scarlets at home is disappointing (particularly the soft scores we gave away), I see no shame in being outclassed by a midfield of Priestland, JD2 and Scott Williams. Had Less Jones not messed up for that final score, we'd have secured a LBP. Perhaps not the aim of the game for us, but all things considered not a disaster either.

We need to be patient and give Solomons time. Some of our tactics were negative, but we ought to trust that there may be method in the madness. He's clearly trying to address our error count and the silly mistakes we repeatedly made last season. He may need to be overly strict at the outset to achieve that. What was encouraging was the physicality and committment of the defence and line speed. That's something new.

[RDW]

Positivity?? Where's FES and what have you done with him??

[InjuredYetAgain]

What Edinburgh need are players with guts (well, a different kind of gut from Atiga's) and a winning mentality and, sadly, none of our signings seem to tick these boxes.
Let's out things in perspective, we are taking players from the Kings - the worst franchise in SA rugby - not Leinster.
I do hope Solomoms does become too conservative. When we lost in previous seasons, other sides merely out-scored Edinburgh but now the opposition getting 10 points on the board is normally enough to let them concentrate on going for a TBP!

[funnyExiledScot]

What Edinburgh need are players with guts (well, a different kind of gut from Atiga's) and a winning mentality and, sadly, none of our signings seem to tick these boxes.
Let's out things in perspective, we are taking players from the Kings - the worst franchise in SA rugby - not Leinster.
I do hope Solomoms does become too conservative. When we lost in previous seasons, other sides merely out-scored Edinburgh but now the opposition getting 10 points on the board is normally enough to let them concentrate on going for a TBP!

On the guts point, were you there on Friday? I thought there was plenty of effort and determination shown in defence. We repeatedly knocked them back in defence, and whilst I've been a critic of Atiga in the past, his defensive effort was very good (and it was a very decent pass from him to release Cuthbert for that opportunity right at the end). He isn't the answer at 12, Matt Scott is, but that wasn't his worst game by a long long shot.

The issue for me still seems to be concentration. The first try came about because the ref had penalised us in the 22 and we switched off expecting the penalty to be given and the Scarlets to kick for a 6-3 lead. The Scarlets spotted the opportunity, drove hard into the defence sucking in the few Edinburgh players actually paying attention and then went wide to exploit the overlap. Very good spot by the Scarlets, woeful concentration from Edinburgh, who up to that point hadn't given much away. The second try was the same. Edinburgh had done the hard work by defending the line, won the turnover but the kick to escape the 22 didn't quite make touch (or if it did, the Scarlets went quickly). Whilst Edinburgh players ambled forwards towards the ball, the Scarlets winger set off like lightening across the pitch, totally outflanking the defence and creating a massive overlap. Lee Jones was the only Edinburgh player to really spot the danger and by then it was too late and there was a huge mismatch to defend. Again, the try came not because we missed tackles or didn't show guts, it came because the players expected the ball to go out and for there to be a lineout, and switched on far too late to the danger. Good play from the Scarlets, terrible concentration from the Edinburgh defence. The third try was a nice threaded kick from Priestland which Jones messed up. Other than picking Lee Jones in the first place, hard to blame the new coaches for that.

I've criticised the spirit of the side in the past, but guts wasn't the issue on Friday. The issues were (a) concentration at key moments, and (b) the gameplan being too conservative (although as noted above, there may be some valid reasons for this).

[InjuredYetAgain]

No sorry FeS - must confess that I was AWOL on Friday

[funnyExiledScot]

Positivity?? Where's FES and what have you done with him??

Cheeky! I am a ray of sunshine on these boards!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Positivity?? Where's FES and what have you done with him??

Cheeky! I am a ray on sunmoonshine on these boards!

Fixed that for you, fES - no charge on this occasion!

[funnyExiledScot]

You really ought to start charging for your excellent secretarial service.....

[TJ]

Well edinburgh fans - seeing as those pesky weegies name us the MFLs we really should do them the same service. A nickname for them?

[cakeordeath]

Well edinburgh fans - seeing as those pesky weegies name us the MFLs we really should do them the same service.  A nickname for them?

How about "a decent rugby team, who actually give a f**k. and win games " It's a bit long I know, but I think it could work.

[jimbopip]

Well edinburgh fans - seeing as those pesky weegies name us the MFLs we really should do them the same service.  A nickname for them?

How about, " those people who own the 1872 cup"?

[TJ]

 bastids

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