Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

A. Edinburgh
 

 
1. Pre-season
 
Fri 30 Aug 2013, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 15 - 5 Newcastle Falcons
 
Fri 23 Aug 2013, 19:30
Northampton Saints 24 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby
 
2. 2013/2014 Season - Played
 
Sat 7 Sep, 19:15
Munster Rugby 34 - 23 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 13 Newport Gwent Dragons
 
Sat 21 Sep, 18:30
Ospreys 44 - 10 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 9 - 22 Scarlets

Sun 6 Oct, 14:05
Cardiff Blues 29 - 12 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 25 Oct, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 13 Benetton Treviso

Fri 1 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 23 Zebre

Fri 22 Nov 19:05
Ulster Rugby 41 - 17 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 29 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 43 - 10 Connacht

3. 2013/2014 Season - Next 3 Games
 
Fri 20 Dec 19:35
Edinburgh Rugby v Leinster

Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors

Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby

B. Glasgow
 

 
1. Pre-season
 
Sat 31 Aug 2013, 15:00
Exeter Chiefs 26 - 29 Glasgow Warriors
 
2. 2013/2014 Season
 
Fri 6 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 22 - 15 Cardiff Blues
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 20 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 12 - 6 Leinster Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:30
Zebre 17 - 24 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 5 Oct, 18:30
Scarlets 12 - 17 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 25 Oct, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 6 - 13 Munster Rugby

Sat 2 Nov, 17:00
Connacht Rugby 12 - 19 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 22 Nov, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 8 - 23 Newport Gwent Dragons

Fri 29 Nov, 19:05
Ospreys 16 - 28 Glasgow Warriors

3. 2013/2014 Season - Next 3 Games
 
Fri 20 Dec, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors   v   Benetton Treviso

Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors

Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby
 
Bearing in mind the above - what I'd like to know for each team is:
 
1. How is the season likely to go?
2. What are the teams' strengths?
3. What are the teams' weaknesses?
4. What can be done to improve matters for each team?
 
Any jingoism, sledging or graceless kicking of anyone whilst they are up or down will see posts deleted.
 
Be gracious and be constructive.

[George Carlin]

Well edinburgh fans - seeing as those pesky weegies name us the MFLs we really should do them the same service.  A nickname for them?

How about "a decent rugby team, who actually give a f**k. and win games " It's a bit long I know, but I think it could work.

 

[IanBru]

Well edinburgh fans - seeing as those pesky weegies name us the MFLs we really should do them the same service.  A nickname for them?

The best comedy always has an element if truth in it, so might I suggest:

"The Scotland Team"

You see that's both true... And damn funny.  

[TJ]

:sulks:

[RDW]

We could call them the 'soap dodging benefit stealing alky jakies from the west' but that isn't overly catchy!  

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

  isn't a Scotland player just yet, although I'm sure he's already pencilled in as ASBOs player of the 6 Nations....

fES - he will have spray painted it onto his outside wall- you can take the boy out of Glasgow ...etc....etc  

I've done half of ma roads with 'Bennett for Scotland' already

[RDW]

Edinburgh have announced they are extending the trial of the Argentinian centre until the New Year, and have ended Michael Tait’s trial, not wanting to take anything further.

I know that Tait wasn’t exactly a world beater, but I’m not massively comfortable with a Scottish player being cast aside over an Argie who has yet to really play for us!

[Pat_Mustard]

Hopefully this is because Dominguez has looked excellent in training or something, and Tait's spell was described as a loan rather than a trial so maybe Newcastle weren't willing to extend it?

[RDW]

Tait was released by Newcastle I'm pretty sure - they don't want him either

[George Carlin]

I'm happy that Grandpappy is being decisive - wouldn't expect anything less.

[Pat_Mustard]

Speaking of Grandpappy, I hadn't realised how tiny he is! Makes Laidlaw look big!
http://t.co/B8mZWreNWz

If neither Solomons nor Dean Richards consider Tait good enough, we shouldn't be keeping him on just because he's Scottish and we feel like we should.

[funnyExiledScot]

Agree - ultimately we want to be hanging onto the better player, and if Tait isn't good enough (and doesn't show any signs of ever being good enough), then better to get rid and move on.

That said, whilst I'm willing to trust Solomons' judgement, I've seen nothing of Dominguez.

[George Carlin]

Interesting piece by Smithers about the status of Edinburgh in the Herald which is basically a tacit criticism about the backroom staff not preparing the players properly:

Solomons dispenses his wisdom on the failings over fitness at Edinburgh and the catch-up needed
Saturday 5 October 2013

As he offered a blunt critique of what he encountered on taking over as Edinburgh's head coach, Alan Solomons yesterday hinted at deep failings within Scottish rugby's headquarters.

Ever since starting in the job, the South African has said that he, his management team and, as a consequence, the playing squad he has taken charge of, are playing catch up with their rivals.

However, the detailed explanation of why that is, which he offered, suggested that they have uncovered some major problems.

"The functional part of the conditioning is busy going in at the moment because there was no functional conditioning done prior to the arrival of Omar [Mouneimne, the assistant he brought with him from Super 15's Southern Kings]," he said.

"That's no reflection on any of the conditioning that was done before [this summer] because that wasn't the brief. The brief was to put in some base fitness and Neil Potts [the SRU's head of fitness and conditioning] did an excellent job, but from a coaching perspective particularly the defence and the breakdown, you need that functional conditioning."

By which he means what is more commonly thought of as match fitness in terms of readiness and ability to react to what confronts players in game situations and, on the face of it, his comments could be interpreted as simply reflecting the lateness of his and Mouneimne's arrival in camp.

Solomons added: "Put it this way, I can't comment on what's been happening here in the past but from a functional conditioning perspective we needed work.

"But I think you've got to back, as I understood it - and I wasn't here - that the science conditioning left a great deal to be desired full stop."

"That is absolutely fundamental and what would normally have after that period is the coaching transfer's over. Obviously what we will do when we have a full pre-season together is that will be completely integrated."

Plenty of caveats in there designed to avoid apportioning blame to anyone presently on the SRU staff, but the reality is that if his assessment is right, a great deal seems not have been done properly within the professional team that plays on the governing body's front lawn and which contains many Scotland internationalists.

Given the experience of the past decade or so it would, meanwhile, be understandable if those of a cynical disposition interpreted these comments as merely the latest attempt by an in-coming coach to buy additional time for himself by casting aspersions upon the previous regime.

Certainly all the available evidence is that Solomons is likely to need as much time as he can get to turn things around at the club that is separated from its Scottish rivals Glasgow Warriors by the full length of the league table.

Given the rapidity with which successive SRU regimes have discarded professional coaches over the years there is no guarantee of that. However, if Solomons is the right man for the job, as most believe the tried and tested trouble-shooter to be, the current SRU hierarchy are under additional pressure to give him extra breathing space.

They, after all, took full ownership of his appointment only a few weeks ago so have little choice but to accept his assessment of what he found when he arrived.

To frustrated supporters who were muted as the side slumped to a home defeat to the Scarlets last weekend, none of that will offer much in the way of solace at the time of the season when, as evidenced by the Cardiff line-up for tomorrow's match, most teams are getting up to full strength.

Furthermore, given all the conditioning work they are still undertaking, Solomons warned them not to expect miracles of their own leading players such as Greig Laidlaw, the captain who makes his first competitive appearance of the season tomorrow and Matt Scott who is set to do likewise from the bench.

With the Heineken Cup just a week away, his essential message was that any further wins before the end of October will fit very much into the bonus camp.

There will, this season, be no repeat of the Heineken Cup heroics of two years ago and it looks as if it may be some time before they start to clamber their way up the RaboDirect Pro12 table.

[cakeordeath]

Edingburgh has just signed someone called Sam Beard.
http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/13/10/07/canterbury-starlet-signs

Is anyone else concerned about the number of overseas signings just now?

[RDW]

Well he's a centre, and we definitely need a few of those, and he's still young and will probably be cheap so no big deal really. Good he's only signed on until the end of the season.

[RDW]

On a similar note, Rory Lawson tweeted stats on the average number of home qualified players in match day squads over the last 3 weeks – Glasgow were 3rd in the Rabbo with 91.3%, Edinburgh bottom with 73.9%

At least we’re not like Toulon – 37.3%!

[George Carlin]

Steamers have had a bit of a poopie year, as I recall but this one has got 'Sean Lineen' written all over it so let's have some respect for his ability to spot talent. Again, smacks of a Solomons 'trial' contract, which as RDW says is a very good strategy.

[TJ]

So long as Edinburgh only bring these players in either with an eye to getting them scots qualified or on short term contracts I am with it.

[jimbopip]

In the gay community, if such a state of sexual apartheid really exists, a beard is a female friend who goes on dates with a homosexual who is still cosily in his closet. The beard makes him look more masculine, as it were. So...
MFL sign Beard
It was only am matter of time wasn't it?

[TJ]

At least we are not strangers to soap.

[tigertattie]

Am I allowed to be a glasgow and and Edinburgh fan these days?

[George Carlin]

Am I allowed to be a glasgow and and Edinburgh fan these days?

Well, I am. Although I hide my duality by doing Glaswegian things like speaking incomprehensibly, not washing, being funny, helping lost people and giving passing drunks the occasional malky.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Am I allowed to be a glasgow and and Edinburgh fan these days?

Bliwdy bandwagonner

[tigertattie]

Its true ASBO

But I stil think Bennett is poo!

On a serious note, is there any other Edinburgh fans who would accept losing both cup games to the weedge if it helps them stay at the top of the Rabo?

Not like winning a game or two is gonna do us any good!

[RuggerRadge2611]

Well completed my run (happy to make it through the streets of the Weage without being stabbed) on Sunday and got home in time to watch Edinburgh get fisted by Cardiff, seemed to be going ok in the 1st half.

Also I'm back from a prolonged stay down in Sheffield so I'm back to my normal place of work posting as of now.

What have I missed?

[reallybored]

Its true ASBO

But I stil think Bennett is poo!

On a serious note, is there any other Edinburgh fans who would accept losing both cup games to the weedge if it helps them stay at the top of the Rabo?

Not like winning a game or two is gonna do us any  good!

100% and felt the exact same last season.

[tigertattie]

welcome back radge!

what have you missed?

well!

We're all Glasgow fans now. Edinburgh no longer exist as an entity.

RDW has come out

ASBO has accepted that Bennett is actually tosh!

Glove is preparing a lego training video to show Edinburgh players how to play rugby

George Carlin has been abducted by aliens

FES has bought a new tweed jacket

Reallybored has signed up to be a Glasgow cheerleader

I've lost all sense of reality

Hows things with you?

[GLove39]

Glove is preparing a lego training video to show Edinburgh players how to play rugby

 

[RDW]

RDW has come out

 

[tigertattie]

I never meant that way RDW.

I was meaning you are out the closet about being a league man!

[RDW]

I am?  

In that case I take back the Diva emoticon...!

[George Carlin]

welcome back radge!

what have you missed?

George Carlin has been abducted by aliens.

Cracking view from up here.

[tigertattie]

and folk claim that we post nonsense on here eh?

utter tosh!

Is Elvis with ya George?

[RuggerRadge2611]

It is early days for Mr Solomon, but is it just me or has he made Edinburgh even poorer. Sure we shipped a lot of points last year, but at least we were still racking up the tries.

We don't even seem to be doing that, despite a pretty tough start to the season.

As for Sunday's game Laidlaw, Leonard and the pack looked decent (particularly Denton) but the backs looked clueless at best.

[RDW]

We have been bad radge, very bad in some cases, but it is still early days. If we're still playing like this by Christmas then we can be concerned.

I do think he's maybe gone back to basics a wee bit too much, and this chat of fines if you run it out of the 22 is concerning. If that is true then Laidlaw is due several fines, even though he made good ground on Sunday (although isolated one time).

Again I see this year very much as a season just to survive, get through it, hopefully not get humiliated and then start building properly for next season.

[tigertattie]

I think Solomons is still trying to see what kind of rugby the team need to play.

Edinburgh are not a kicking for terriroy team. Kick to touch from your 22, box kick from your 10m is a basic basic thing that went out when the pro era came to be. If Edinburgh persist with this tactic then it will be lights out by next season

Our pack is still decent, we miss an effective 7, thon Arg boy on sunday was rather meh, but give him time I guess. Our back line is woeful though. Laidlaw, under instructions perhaps, kicks the ball too much. I'm sorry, but Harry leonard will never be a good Pro 12 stand off. Poor game management. ineffective kicking. no eye for releasing a backline. Atiga is, well, he is Atiga. Nuff said. Jack Cuthbert needs to return to Prem 1. Lee Jones is the anti-christ.

I'll be fair to Dougie Fife, I thought defensivly he was excellent on Sunday. He was also looking for work but Edinburgh just never had enough ball to work with due to relentless kicking and the Blues were good at keeping possestion.

For me, the test for Solomons will be during the autumn internationals. How Edinburgh cope without thier Scotland contingient could determine how Edinburgh improve/decline as the season goes on and this will have an effect on Solomons tenure at the club!

[RDW]

He needs to find a way to get the best of Visser. For all the previous coach's failings, they got the best out of Visser and there's no point us having one of the most potent try scorers in the league if all he does is chase kicks (badly) all day.

Saying that, who is the backs coach at Edinbrugh? Solomons?

It's no surprise that our backs have been so bad - not touching a ball all pre season until Solomons came, and having no specialist backs coach isn't exactly going to help a young backline run well.

[tigertattie]

I'll work for Edinburgh as backs coach on a consultancy basis. £50 per session?

Plan for the Edinburgh backs is easy.

Ruck. Quick ball from 9 to 10. 10 standing near the gain line. Edinburgh centres need to not sit as deep. Play flatter. Play phases across the pitch from touch line to touch line. Have wingers and outside centre cutting different angles. Pass the ball to Visser and have him come onto the ball at speed.

simples!

you dont even need to have preset moves. Miss passes. Scissor moves. Loop around. That stuff should be done based on how your opposing defense has been set! I Believe they call it heads up rugby?

In fact. I think that is the problem with Edinburgh just now. They are trying to play rugby by numbers! I thik Bradley just didnt have a clue and told the players to play what they felt at the time. Solomons may just need to give the back more creative freedom?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I think Solomons is still trying to see what kind of rugby the team need to play.

Edinburgh are not a kicking for terriroy team.  Kick to touch from your 22, box kick from your 10m is a basic basic thing that went out when the pro era came to be.  If Edinburgh persist with this tactic then it will be lights out by next season

Our pack is still decent, we miss an effective 7, thon Arg boy on sunday was rather meh, but give him time I guess.  Our back line is woeful though.  Laidlaw, under instructions perhaps, kicks the ball too much.  I'm sorry, but Harry leonard will never be a good Pro 12 stand off. Poor game management. ineffective kicking. no eye for releasing a backline. Atiga is, well, he is Atiga. Nuff said.  Jack Cuthbert needs to return to Prem 1.  Lee Jones is the anti-christ.

I'll be fair to Dougie Fife, I thought defensivly he was excellent on Sunday.  He was also looking for work but Edinburgh just never had enough ball to work with due to relentless kicking and the Blues were good at keeping possestion.

For me, the test for Solomons will be during the autumn internationals.  How Edinburgh cope without thier Scotland contingient could determine how Edinburgh improve/decline as the season goes on and this will have an effect on Solomons tenure at the club!

Same XXIII surely?

[George Carlin]

and folk claim that we post nonsense on here eh?

utter tosh!

Is Elvis with ya George?

[alive555]

looking at all the edinburgh imports it seems, so far to be a bit of a disaster.

can someone knowledgeable pls rate these players either as they have played for edinburgh already or in their past clublife* reg. ie how good were they ?

last seasons imports

Ben Atiga
Izak ven der Westhuizen
Perry Parker
Dimitri Basilaia
Sean Cox (2-3 years ago)
WP Nel

and the flood gates opened ;-

Ollie Atkins
Grayson Hart
Alex Tooli
Ben Tooli
James Hilterbrand
Mike Corman
Cornell du Preez
Tomas Leonardi
Wicus Blaauw
Joaquin Dominguez
Aleki Lutui
Sam Beard

are any of these guys any good ?

[madmaccas]

looking at all the edinburgh imports it seems, so far to be a bit of a disaster.

can someone knowledgeable pls rate these players either as they have played for edinburgh already or in their past clublife* reg. ie how good were they ?

last seasons imports

Ben Atiga
Izak ven der Westhuizen
Perry Parker
Dimitri Basilaia
Sean Cox (2-3 years ago)
WP Nel

and the flood gates opened ;-

Ollie Atkins
Grayson Hart
Alex Tooli
Ben Tooli
James Hilterbrand
Mike Corman
Cornell du Preez
Tomas Leonardi
Wicus Blaauw
Joaquin Dominguez
Aleki Lutui
Sam Beard

are any of these guys any good ?

From what I've seen this/last season and in highlight vids from their previous club the only really proven players are Nel, du Preez and Corman. The others are outside bets, i.e give em' a chance and see if they can rise to the occasion.

To be fair most of this season's signings are relatively short term so could be dropped if they fail to progress.

[madmaccas]

plus players like Alex Tooli, Ben Tooli, James Hilterbrand, Joaquin Dominguez and Sam Beard are all young and, from what I've heard, on very modest contracts - so aren't actually costing us that much.

Great chance for them to push in pro rugby and if we unearth a diamond in the rough then great, if not then we haven't lost too much in cash or reputation (as we're rebuilding anyway).

[SGD prop]

Could they not have given some of the guys from Scotland a chance then if all they are doing is getting them in on the cheap in the hope one will improve ?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

You'd certainly have thought so, SGD

[madmaccas]

Could they not have given some of the guys from Scotland a chance then if all they are doing is getting them in on the cheap in the hope one will improve ?

We have so few players available in the club system, which is a very big step down from the Rabo, that the majority of those deemed capable of making the step up either already have or, are still too young. We only have 10,000 players in the whole country.

It doesn't thrill me to say it but a 2nd rate Kiwi or Saffa player is probably better than most 1st rate RBS Premiership players.

[SGD prop]

If that is true (which I am not really disputing) then is is a sad state of affairs and just goes to show you that the development of our home grown players is an embarrassment as I do not for a second believe that we have less potential than other countries of our size. Lets be honest if you do not come from the right part of the country and are not in the Scotland age teams by the age of 18 you virtually have no chance of coming through (and then it is a hobby).
The only one I can think of doing it is Lee Miller and even then he is on his first contract at the age of 21-22 and will be very lucky to go on to play for Scotland ever as, unless he is very lucky, he will not have enough experience until he is seen as too old. Yet we can bring over players from NZ and OZ that are not playing to any higher a standard (club rugby but not super rugby). It just gets me very annoyed that young players from Scotland with potential are not given a proper shot at full time training to see if they will take to it like a duck to water or not.
I guess this all comes back to the fact we only have 2 teams and there is not enough places for development. How many games do the average development players at Glasgow or Edinburgh get a year and if the standard of the premiership really is that bad playing there will not help. Do we need to get closer links to the English championship or the French 2nd division or even the Italian pro division to loan players out to try and develop though I do realise that this will be difficult as why would they want to develop our players ?

Sorry for the rant

[tigertattie]

Not really SGD, what we really need is for the Prem 1 players (and those from lower down the leagues) to step up and increase the quality of these leagues!

This is where Scottish Rugby is going backwards. Our grass roots rugby is in decline. Our menality is all wrong.  Instead of bringing in 2nd rate foreign players we need to look at development of our own guys. However, where we are going wrong is to either pull the quality of the Rabo level guys down or to look to ship players to othr leagues for the guys to improve.  We need to gap between Prem 1 and Pro 12 to be smaller not by lowering the standards of the Pro 12 but to INCREASE the standards of the Prem 1 quality!

[George Carlin]

Agreed Tattie - and this is the argument why if the SRU gets more money, the last thing it should be doing (although tempting) is establishing a third pro team.
 
We don't need that anywhere near as much as we need to pay for another 1,000 PE teachers to stay on after hours and coach rugby teams and to set up leagues and competitions where school age teams can play each other.

[tigertattie]

What we need is to get into the ear of the government!

I'm not clued in by any means but I don't think Rugby (touch or any other form) is compulsory in schools??? I'm going back a fair bit, but at school I HAD to play football, rugby was only an extra if someone wanted to play it!!!

I'm not for forcing kids to play a game they will not like, but we need to get them to try it!

Money really does need to be handed down to the grass roots of the game! Locally we've had to merge two age groups for training as there aint a coach to do both! In this day and age, people dont have the free time to volanteer to coach an age grade team! I would say 9 out of 10 coaches are the parent of a kid in the age group and will stop coaching when the kid stops playing or will move up the age grades with the kid leaving gaps behind!

The only way any form of structure can be governed by the SRu would be to do things through schools

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Tattie for President

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