What do you predict the ultimate outcome of this Euro fight will be?

TJ wrote:tehre is nothing else we can do - we have done what we can in adjusting our structure to maximise our return both in playing terms and financial terms with the current cross border set up. we simply cant raise enough money in scotland.  

TJ wrote:I think the most likely outcome is a euro cup without the PRL teams.  It would be a real shame but that would appear to beit.  Perhaps we can have some non PRL english teams,perhpas we could invite Georgia, Spain et al to join in instead

Metal Tiger wrote:

TJ wrote:I think the most likely outcome is a euro cup without the PRL teams.  It would be a real shame but that would appear to beit.  Perhaps we can have some non PRL english teams,perhpas we could invite Georgia, Spain et al to join in instead

The rab 12 will join. They can't survive without the English & French and most importantly the money.

1. PRL/LNR will back down and a new ERC tournament will be created.
2. PRL/LNR will win the fight, their tournament (The Rugby Champions Cup) will be sanctioned by the unions and the PRO12 teams will join on PRL/LNR terms.  

doctor_grey wrote:

1. PRL/LNR will back down and a new ERC tournament will be created.
2. PRL/LNR will win the fight, their tournament (The Rugby Champions Cup) will be sanctioned by the unions and the PRO12 teams will join on PRL/LNR terms.  

Frankly, it is a mistake to look at this from the standpoint of who wins and who loses.  Rugby wins if we get a proper European competition which has the proper financial incentives and guarantees, and includes teams from each of the current Six Nations.  Rugby loses if we don't.  Whether it is run by the ERC or something else does not matter at all as long as there is proper governance in place.  This seems to be a problem for a lot of people who want to see their 'side' win (whatever that means).  But in reality it is only a distraction.

Recwatcher wrote:
Any euro competition that has teams virtually and artificially made up of players from the same test sides for Unions is a false club competition.

Recwatcher wrote:I agree Pot, if I had my way the PRL would concentrate on the english domestic scene before all this cherry on top stuff. The second and third tiers need more support before we start thinking about foreign competition. Leave that to the 6N and RWC.

BT have got the english game for a song and is relatively worth much, much more. Thats what should be developed.

Gibson wrote:I went for option 4. And I think the Celts and Italians should hold out and wait for a year if it happens. It will weaken the PRL/LNR pact if they do. We need them, but they really need us too. Otherwise its a farce.

England tried this craic with the 5-Nations a while back. Tried it with SKY, as it happens. They grew up, saw the Light and backed down.

Hold fast bhoys, there is far too much at stake here.

I am not locked into the ERC deal btw. They are just another option to me.  What is vitally  important here, is the future development of European club rugby and all the 6 Nations involved in it. The 6 Unions, in conjunction with the IRB, should sit down with all the clubs and bash out an agreement on the format of a new, truly European, tournament. If the Franglo Pact needs a carrot (and they do),   give them qualification on merit and the shekels that represents their fan and TV watching base.  That would be a carrot worth agreeing to.  They're asking for that. They're asking for each team to have the same starting money, regardless of tier. Something the unions clearly don't want because they don't have many/any teams in the 2nd tier

BTs proposed investment is huge, so it cannot be ignored. It could benefit us all in the long-term.  As long as they don't "Yank" it up too much. TV Ads in the middle of games an ting. If they have their way, all the best players from the PRO12, will head to France and maybe even England. This will kill the international game as we know it.  The Autumn Internationals and Summer Tours for instance, key to the NH improving their lot v the SH,  would be become a joke -  as it is in soccer internationals. The big-paying clubs will play hardball releasing their stars for them and they become subsequently meaningless. Play hardball? How? They can't stop players from representing their country in the International Window. Given that everyone stands to make more money (in absolute terms). So it will be a question of players going abroad for even more money. If they say they're retiring from international rugby to do that then they sold out. Up to them. That's even assuming that any players ARE discouraged from playing international rugby.

In reality, Glasgow are on the move and will be involved in any 1st tier Euro comp as it stands. As are Treviso. I expect them both to be constant top 6 PRO12 clubs over the next few years. The Welsh and Irish will always have two each in it, at least.  So that would cover all the Nations interests. The likes of Connacht, Edinburgh, Dragons and Zebre, should really accept the 2nd European  tier on a regular basis. Its up to them to improve, if they want to join the Top Table.  Same goes for the weaker French and English clubs. After all, that's what they want is it not? Adding some meaning to the CC is one of the main driving points of the PRL in this. So far the ERC has done little to nothing to develope the CC as they have little involvement. The only thing that happened is the drop down form the HEC which benefits the PRO12 unions while undermining the pool stages even more. It's a farse and the current controlling body has done nothing about it.

So, what's the real core obstacle here? Total power and financial control  of European Rugby by the two class bullies, methinks. Total control? What does that even mean? Why should you be expecting the PRL want more control over Europe than they do over their own league? The RFU still has a say over all major changes and has blocked the PRL from making ones they don't agree with And that must be stopped at all costs. Any future rugby EC must be kept under the auspices and ultimate control of all the 6 Nations unions. Otherwise, it will be counter-productive to the game we all love, in the long-term. On that basis,  I fully expect the respective Unions and the IRB  to hold fast and show us why they  are there in the 1st place.  To mind our game from short-sighted, greedy,  basterds.  Otherwise... what is the point of them?  

Believe.

Pot Hale wrote:

Recwatcher wrote:
Any euro competition that has teams virtually and artificially made up of players from the same test sides for Unions is a false club competition.

And yet the PRL/LNR wants (desperately some might think) to have these "false clubs" involved in their new cup.   They even say they will face financial ruin if they don't.

Why?  They're only throwing them a bone (8% each) - why bother to have them involved?

Why not just split the proceeds 50/50?

I'm trying to recall when, if ever, the PRL have given a positive reason as to why the PRO 12 teams should be included, beyond saying they will get more money than they're currently getting.