Chavez Jr vs Vera now being contested at 173lbs!!!!!!!!

First topic message reminder :

http://espn.go.com/blog/dan-rafael/post/_/id/5655/chavez-remains-reigning-king-of-drama

Seriously, how can anyone be a fan of this guy.

Handed a title on a silver plate, failing drugs tests, skipping drugs tests, fighting bums, robbing opponents (Zbik) and just being a fat useless waste of space.

The original agreement was 168lbs and guess what!? Yep, Chavez is struggling to make weight.

He has left Roach, Ariza etc and is now with his dad training. Great call  

Lets face it, the guy is toast if he is going to try and compete against fellow 175lb'ers

Its all well and good being a cruiserweight on the night against Andy Lee. But this guy struggled with average fighters like Zbik, Rubio and Billy Lyell and couldn't take them out dispite being about 4 divisions heavier.

Would love to see this blow up in his face and for Vera to win (although unlikely in every possible way, especially as the judges will be friends of daddy).

Thoughts?

Scottrf wrote:

catchweight wrote:Sorry but that is BS.

If you say so. Not gonna happen though.

So what?

Ali is never going to fight Tyson. Its not going to stop people discussing it.

Same day weigh ins are the way forward, at least this way the boxer in danger is the one dehydrating themselves and can avoid the risk if they choose to fight at a sensible weight class. At the moment it's dangerous for the journeymen getting put in against prospects who put on 20lbs between weigh in and fight and so are easily out weighing their opponents. Also as a side note I think that the majority of boxers need to spend less time in training trying to shed weight and drain themselves to make a limit and actually work on their boxing more. Looking at the best guys in each weight class they're not the ones who drain themselves and just be big at the weight it's the guys who work on their craft. Excluding the no limit heavies and the cruiserweights as I have no idea who is the best there, look through the weight divisions and best fighter is very rarely guy who piles on weight post weigh in.

catchweight wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

catchweight wrote:Sorry but that is BS.

If you say so. Not gonna happen though.

So what?

Ali is never going to fight Tyson. Its not going to stop people discussing it.

As long as you know what category of debate you're in.

Scottrf wrote:

catchweight wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

catchweight wrote:Sorry but that is BS.

If you say so. Not gonna happen though.

So what?

Ali is never going to fight Tyson. Its not going to stop people discussing it.

As long as you know what category of debate you're in.

I didnt say they will be bringing back same day weigh ins. I just said I think they should. Its better than the current system.

I dont agree with the idea that all boxers would be badly badly dehydrated if weigh ins happened the morning of a fight. This system was around for decades. Most boxers managed fine and it lead to a more accurate categorizing of weight classes. The current system actually defeats the purpose of weight classes, which was to ensure that a boxer is not physically outmatched. Now you have boxers from different weight divisions fighting each other in the ring.

I see Scott is back to his normal way of debating.......didn't take long.

Please, coxy is gone, I don't need another one.

bellchees wrote:Same day weigh ins are the way forward, at least this way the boxer in danger is the one dehydrating themselves and can avoid the risk if they choose to fight at a sensible weight class. At the moment it's dangerous for the journeymen getting put in against prospects who put on 20lbs between weigh in and fight and so are easily out weighing their opponents. Also as a side note I think that the majority of boxers need to spend less time in training trying to shed weight and drain themselves to make a limit and actually work on their boxing more. Looking at the best guys in each weight class they're not the ones who drain themselves and just be big at the weight it's the guys who work on their craft. Excluding the no limit heavies and the cruiserweights as I have no idea who is the best there, look through the weight divisions and best fighter is very rarely guy who piles on weight post weigh in.

That's because they don't need to because they are the best in the division.

Those with less ability may chose to cut more weight and have the size advantage on fight night.

Moving the weigh-in back to the day of the fight isn't going to stop this from happening. Those lesser fighters will still cut more weight to make the weight limit. But having it on the same day of the fight will make it more likely that they will not rehydrate fully. So we are back to square one again.

Spending more time on their boxing instead of training to make weight? Are you suggesting that some fighters neglect their boxing to spend time just losing weight? What a strange thing to do. You'd think these pro boxers would realise that they should be doing some boxing training.

The only way to make sure fighters aren't cutting too much weight by dehydrating is to have check weigh-ins every day in the weeks leading up to the fight. I'm not sure how practical an idea that is.

Scottrf wrote:Please, coxy is gone, I don't need another one.

We didnt need you back either.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Please, coxy is gone, I don't need another one.

We didnt need you back either.

Most seem to disagree, but thanks for the welcome.

I still love you Scott if that helps

I like you more than the average person does, Scott.

STC wrote:

bellchees wrote:Same day weigh ins are the way forward, at least this way the boxer in danger is the one dehydrating themselves and can avoid the risk if they choose to fight at a sensible weight class. At the moment it's dangerous for the journeymen getting put in against prospects who put on 20lbs between weigh in and fight and so are easily out weighing their opponents. Also as a side note I think that the majority of boxers need to spend less time in training trying to shed weight and drain themselves to make a limit and actually work on their boxing more. Looking at the best guys in each weight class they're not the ones who drain themselves and just be big at the weight it's the guys who work on their craft. Excluding the no limit heavies and the cruiserweights as I have no idea who is the best there, look through the weight divisions and best fighter is very rarely guy who piles on weight post weigh in.

That's because they don't need to because they are the best in the division.

Those with less ability may chose to cut more weight and have the size advantage on fight night.

Moving the weigh-in back to the day of the fight isn't going to stop this from happening. Those lesser fighters will still cut more weight to make the weight limit. But having it on the same day of the fight will make it more likely that they will not rehydrate fully. So we are back to square one again.

Spending more time on their boxing instead of training to make weight? Are you suggesting that some fighters neglect their boxing to spend time just losing weight? What a strange thing to do. You'd think these pro boxers would realise that they should be doing some boxing training.

The only way to make sure fighters aren't cutting too much weight by dehydrating is to have check weigh-ins every day in the weeks leading up to the fight. I'm not sure how practical an idea that is.

Thats not the case. The current rules are actually encouraging boxers to abuse their bodies more and has created a culture where boxers place huge emphasis on dehydrating down in order to take full advantage of the rehydration period. The modern rules actually encourage this. The suggestion that boxers nowadays spend training camps with a much greater emphasis on weight loss is correct and nothing like as far fetched as this myth that seems to be held that same day weigh ins did not make any difference to boxers dehydrating themselves badly. With same day weigh in boxers knew that they could not afford to boxing in weight classes they basically couldnt make. There was more emphasis on fighting in a healthy weight class and not abusing the body to the maximum level in order to take advantage of a rehydration period. The logic that giving boxers extra time to rehydrate was well and good and was intended to be used in good faith but its been completely abused and hasnt worked in practice at all. If it wasnt promoters loving it as a publicity tool and a safety net to prevent cancellation then I think it would have gone back to same day weigh ins. The same day weigh ins may not have been perfect but it was better than system now and with so many weight classes its unacceptable and unnecessary to have boxers abusing the system and piling on massive weight advantages between fights.

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

bellchees wrote:Same day weigh ins are the way forward, at least this way the boxer in danger is the one dehydrating themselves and can avoid the risk if they choose to fight at a sensible weight class. At the moment it's dangerous for the journeymen getting put in against prospects who put on 20lbs between weigh in and fight and so are easily out weighing their opponents. Also as a side note I think that the majority of boxers need to spend less time in training trying to shed weight and drain themselves to make a limit and actually work on their boxing more. Looking at the best guys in each weight class they're not the ones who drain themselves and just be big at the weight it's the guys who work on their craft. Excluding the no limit heavies and the cruiserweights as I have no idea who is the best there, look through the weight divisions and best fighter is very rarely guy who piles on weight post weigh in.

That's because they don't need to because they are the best in the division.

Those with less ability may chose to cut more weight and have the size advantage on fight night.

Moving the weigh-in back to the day of the fight isn't going to stop this from happening. Those lesser fighters will still cut more weight to make the weight limit. But having it on the same day of the fight will make it more likely that they will not rehydrate fully. So we are back to square one again.

Spending more time on their boxing instead of training to make weight? Are you suggesting that some fighters neglect their boxing to spend time just losing weight? What a strange thing to do. You'd think these pro boxers would realise that they should be doing some boxing training.

The only way to make sure fighters aren't cutting too much weight by dehydrating is to have check weigh-ins every day in the weeks leading up to the fight. I'm not sure how practical an idea that is.

Thats not the case. The current rules are actually encouraging boxers to abuse their bodies more and has created a culture where boxers place huge emphasis on dehydrating down in order to take full advantage of the rehydration period. The modern rules actually encourage this. The suggestion that boxers nowadays spend training camps with a much greater emphasis on weight loss is correct and nothing like as far fetched as this myth that seems to be held that same day weigh ins did not make any difference to boxers dehydrating themselves badly. With same day weigh in boxers knew that they could not afford to boxing in weight classes they basically couldnt make. There was more emphasis on fighting in a healthy weight class and not abusing the body to the maximum level in order to take advantage of a rehydration period. The logic that giving boxers extra time to rehydrate was well and good and was intended to be used in good faith but its been completely abused and hasnt worked in practice at all. If it wasnt promoters loving it as a publicity tool and a safety net to prevent cancellation then I think it would have gone back to same day weigh ins. The same day weigh ins may not have been perfect but it was better than system now and with so many weight classes its unacceptable and unnecessary to have boxers abusing the system and piling on massive weight advantages between fights.

I agree that the current system is encouraging fighters to dehydrate too much, but it does allow time to rehydrate again.

Your claim that fighters didn't dehydrate too much with same day weigh-ins seems like a very broad statement to me and is difficult to prove without any data to back it up. You could argue the same for the opposite opinion though.

Either system could work if more check weigh-ins were introduced and limits to the amount of weight a fighter can put on between weigh-in and fight night were imposed.

STC wrote:

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

bellchees wrote:Same day weigh ins are the way forward, at least this way the boxer in danger is the one dehydrating themselves and can avoid the risk if they choose to fight at a sensible weight class. At the moment it's dangerous for the journeymen getting put in against prospects who put on 20lbs between weigh in and fight and so are easily out weighing their opponents. Also as a side note I think that the majority of boxers need to spend less time in training trying to shed weight and drain themselves to make a limit and actually work on their boxing more. Looking at the best guys in each weight class they're not the ones who drain themselves and just be big at the weight it's the guys who work on their craft. Excluding the no limit heavies and the cruiserweights as I have no idea who is the best there, look through the weight divisions and best fighter is very rarely guy who piles on weight post weigh in.

That's because they don't need to because they are the best in the division.

Those with less ability may chose to cut more weight and have the size advantage on fight night.

Moving the weigh-in back to the day of the fight isn't going to stop this from happening. Those lesser fighters will still cut more weight to make the weight limit. But having it on the same day of the fight will make it more likely that they will not rehydrate fully. So we are back to square one again.

Spending more time on their boxing instead of training to make weight? Are you suggesting that some fighters neglect their boxing to spend time just losing weight? What a strange thing to do. You'd think these pro boxers would realise that they should be doing some boxing training.

The only way to make sure fighters aren't cutting too much weight by dehydrating is to have check weigh-ins every day in the weeks leading up to the fight. I'm not sure how practical an idea that is.

Thats not the case. The current rules are actually encouraging boxers to abuse their bodies more and has created a culture where boxers place huge emphasis on dehydrating down in order to take full advantage of the rehydration period. The modern rules actually encourage this. The suggestion that boxers nowadays spend training camps with a much greater emphasis on weight loss is correct and nothing like as far fetched as this myth that seems to be held that same day weigh ins did not make any difference to boxers dehydrating themselves badly. With same day weigh in boxers knew that they could not afford to boxing in weight classes they basically couldnt make. There was more emphasis on fighting in a healthy weight class and not abusing the body to the maximum level in order to take advantage of a rehydration period. The logic that giving boxers extra time to rehydrate was well and good and was intended to be used in good faith but its been completely abused and hasnt worked in practice at all. If it wasnt promoters loving it as a publicity tool and a safety net to prevent cancellation then I think it would have gone back to same day weigh ins. The same day weigh ins may not have been perfect but it was better than system now and with so many weight classes its unacceptable and unnecessary to have boxers abusing the system and piling on massive weight advantages between fights.

I agree that the current system is encouraging fighters to dehydrate too much, but it does allow time to rehydrate again.

Your claim that fighters didn't dehydrate too much with same day weigh-ins seems like a very broad statement to me and is difficult to prove without any data to back it up. You could argue the same for the opposite opinion though.

Either system could work if more check weigh-ins were introduced and limits to the amount of weight a fighter can put on between weigh-in and fight night were imposed.

I followed boxing back in the days of same day weigh ins and in the vast majority of cases there were no issues of fighters coming in badly weight drained. There was certainly nothing like the current system where fighters spend the last week of their training camp on a glass of water and a bunch of laxatives. Im not saying it never happened but having same day weigh in made fighters aware that they needed to to fight in suitable weight classes. If you struggled to make weight, that was a sign it was time to move up. Now its reach more laxatives in that case. It was no advantage to a boxer to be drained for a fight so they took better care of ensuring they could make weight comfortably. Nowadays people act like if you had same day weigh ins that fighters wouldnt change anything and you would still get boxers like Chavez Jr trying to make middleweight. It wouldnt happen. He just wouldnt fight at middleweight. I think the best compromise would be to have small buffer above each weight limit for rehydration of a few pounds but in reality thats probably already in existence on same day weigh ins for the period between the weigh in and the fight. I think with so many weight classes now there isnt a valid reason for boxers to complain of being weight drained or needing to struggle to make weight. If your struggling to make weight, you shouldnt be in that weight class.

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

bellchees wrote:Same day weigh ins are the way forward, at least this way the boxer in danger is the one dehydrating themselves and can avoid the risk if they choose to fight at a sensible weight class. At the moment it's dangerous for the journeymen getting put in against prospects who put on 20lbs between weigh in and fight and so are easily out weighing their opponents. Also as a side note I think that the majority of boxers need to spend less time in training trying to shed weight and drain themselves to make a limit and actually work on their boxing more. Looking at the best guys in each weight class they're not the ones who drain themselves and just be big at the weight it's the guys who work on their craft. Excluding the no limit heavies and the cruiserweights as I have no idea who is the best there, look through the weight divisions and best fighter is very rarely guy who piles on weight post weigh in.

That's because they don't need to because they are the best in the division.

Those with less ability may chose to cut more weight and have the size advantage on fight night.

Moving the weigh-in back to the day of the fight isn't going to stop this from happening. Those lesser fighters will still cut more weight to make the weight limit. But having it on the same day of the fight will make it more likely that they will not rehydrate fully. So we are back to square one again.

Spending more time on their boxing instead of training to make weight? Are you suggesting that some fighters neglect their boxing to spend time just losing weight? What a strange thing to do. You'd think these pro boxers would realise that they should be doing some boxing training.

The only way to make sure fighters aren't cutting too much weight by dehydrating is to have check weigh-ins every day in the weeks leading up to the fight. I'm not sure how practical an idea that is.

Thats not the case. The current rules are actually encouraging boxers to abuse their bodies more and has created a culture where boxers place huge emphasis on dehydrating down in order to take full advantage of the rehydration period. The modern rules actually encourage this. The suggestion that boxers nowadays spend training camps with a much greater emphasis on weight loss is correct and nothing like as far fetched as this myth that seems to be held that same day weigh ins did not make any difference to boxers dehydrating themselves badly. With same day weigh in boxers knew that they could not afford to boxing in weight classes they basically couldnt make. There was more emphasis on fighting in a healthy weight class and not abusing the body to the maximum level in order to take advantage of a rehydration period. The logic that giving boxers extra time to rehydrate was well and good and was intended to be used in good faith but its been completely abused and hasnt worked in practice at all. If it wasnt promoters loving it as a publicity tool and a safety net to prevent cancellation then I think it would have gone back to same day weigh ins. The same day weigh ins may not have been perfect but it was better than system now and with so many weight classes its unacceptable and unnecessary to have boxers abusing the system and piling on massive weight advantages between fights.

I agree that the current system is encouraging fighters to dehydrate too much, but it does allow time to rehydrate again.

Your claim that fighters didn't dehydrate too much with same day weigh-ins seems like a very broad statement to me and is difficult to prove without any data to back it up. You could argue the same for the opposite opinion though.

Either system could work if more check weigh-ins were introduced and limits to the amount of weight a fighter can put on between weigh-in and fight night were imposed.

I followed boxing back in the days of same day weigh ins and in the vast majority of cases there were no issues of fighters coming in badly weight drained. There was certainly nothing like the current system where fighters spend the last week of their training camp on a glass of water and a bunch of laxatives. Im not saying it never happened but having same day weigh in made fighters aware that they needed to to fight in suitable weight classes. If you struggled to make weight, that was a sign it was time to move up. Now its reach more laxatives in that case. It was no advantage to a boxer to be drained for a fight so they took better care of ensuring they could make weight comfortably. Nowadays people act like if you had same day weigh ins that fighters wouldnt change anything and you would still get boxers like Chavez Jr trying to make middleweight. It wouldnt happen. He just wouldnt fight at middleweight. I think the best compromise would be to have small buffer above each weight limit for rehydration of a few pounds but in reality thats probably already in existence on same day weigh ins for the period between the weigh in and the fight. I think with so many weight classes now there isnt a valid reason for boxers to complain of being weight drained or needing to struggle to make weight. If your struggling to make weight, you shouldnt be in that weight class.

I'm old too and I don't remember there being too many issues with weight in the past, compared with today. Saying that, I didn't follow it so closely back then and access to information was not what it is today.

I agree with what you're saying, on the whole, but it would need a lot more monitoring and the rules would have to be a lot tighter on the amount of weight a fighter can lose and then put back on. All this monitoring of all these fighters would cost money though and I can't imagine too many people would be that intersted in funding such a thing. Much the same as is the current situation with drugs testing in the sport.

Boxing needs to move to a different model in m opinion. This farce just proves it further. The fact that a weight above the actual division is stipulated and then the fighter is unable to make that weight just proves that the boxer has outgrown the division and should be fighting higher up. This is where one single regulatory body would help. On what planet is it fair that a person who campaigns at middleweight could be forced to fight someone who is closer to a light heavyweight and a cruiserweight on fight night? The culture of cutting weight is dangerous to both boxer and opponent. We saw ourselves the condition that De La Hoya found himself in when facing Pacquiao (self inflicted as he agreed) but this isn't providing us with a true reflection of divisional ability. We can take heed from Mayweather here, who walks around at 150, so he is able to drop to Welter or go up to Light Middle. That to me is the way it should be done if you're weight hopping. Froch walks around at 172/3 so he finds no issue getting down to SMW. This is right. Chavez Jr walking around at almost heavyweight and cutting down to middle only to rehydrate to cruiserweight is unnatural. He should be fighting at cruiserweight (where I think he'd do fairly well)

Do we see this issue at the lighter weights? No, because there are more weights to go between. Is it a case of introducing other weight classes? Junior light heavyweight perhaps for the 172, super welterweight can be 150, light middleweight can be 154 etc.

I feel that when a boxer applies for a license it should be weight restricted, and failure to box within that weight means that a new licence should be obtained for their new weight.

Thoughts?

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Boxing needs to move to a different model in m opinion. This farce just proves it further. The fact that a weight above the actual division is stipulated and then the fighter is unable to make that weight just proves that the boxer has outgrown the division and should be fighting higher up. This is where one single regulatory body would help. On what planet is it fair that a person who campaigns at middleweight could be forced to fight someone who is closer to a light heavyweight and a cruiserweight on fight night? The culture of cutting weight is dangerous to both boxer and opponent. We saw ourselves the condition that De La Hoya found himself in when facing Pacquiao (self inflicted as he agreed) but this isn't providing us with a true reflection of divisional ability. We can take heed from Mayweather here, who walks around at 150, so he is able to drop to Welter or go up to Light Middle. That to me is the way it should be done if you're weight hopping. Froch walks around at 172/3 so he finds no issue getting down to SMW. This is right. Chavez Jr walking around at almost heavyweight and cutting down to middle only to rehydrate to cruiserweight is unnatural. He should be fighting at  cruiserweight (where I think he'd do fairly well)

Do we see this issue at the lighter weights? No, because there are more weights to go between. Is it a case of introducing other weight classes? Junior light heavyweight perhaps for the 172, super welterweight can be 150, light middleweight can be 154 etc.

I feel that when a boxer applies for a license it should be weight restricted, and failure to box within that weight means that a new licence should be obtained for their new weight.

Thoughts?

You see it more at lighter weights than heavier weights generally and more weight classes is never the solution no matter what the question is.

STC wrote:

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

bellchees wrote:Same day weigh ins are the way forward, at least this way the boxer in danger is the one dehydrating themselves and can avoid the risk if they choose to fight at a sensible weight class. At the moment it's dangerous for the journeymen getting put in against prospects who put on 20lbs between weigh in and fight and so are easily out weighing their opponents. Also as a side note I think that the majority of boxers need to spend less time in training trying to shed weight and drain themselves to make a limit and actually work on their boxing more. Looking at the best guys in each weight class they're not the ones who drain themselves and just be big at the weight it's the guys who work on their craft. Excluding the no limit heavies and the cruiserweights as I have no idea who is the best there, look through the weight divisions and best fighter is very rarely guy who piles on weight post weigh in.

That's because they don't need to because they are the best in the division.

Those with less ability may chose to cut more weight and have the size advantage on fight night.

Moving the weigh-in back to the day of the fight isn't going to stop this from happening. Those lesser fighters will still cut more weight to make the weight limit. But having it on the same day of the fight will make it more likely that they will not rehydrate fully. So we are back to square one again.

Spending more time on their boxing instead of training to make weight? Are you suggesting that some fighters neglect their boxing to spend time just losing weight? What a strange thing to do. You'd think these pro boxers would realise that they should be doing some boxing training.

The only way to make sure fighters aren't cutting too much weight by dehydrating is to have check weigh-ins every day in the weeks leading up to the fight. I'm not sure how practical an idea that is.

Thats not the case. The current rules are actually encouraging boxers to abuse their bodies more and has created a culture where boxers place huge emphasis on dehydrating down in order to take full advantage of the rehydration period. The modern rules actually encourage this. The suggestion that boxers nowadays spend training camps with a much greater emphasis on weight loss is correct and nothing like as far fetched as this myth that seems to be held that same day weigh ins did not make any difference to boxers dehydrating themselves badly. With same day weigh in boxers knew that they could not afford to boxing in weight classes they basically couldnt make. There was more emphasis on fighting in a healthy weight class and not abusing the body to the maximum level in order to take advantage of a rehydration period. The logic that giving boxers extra time to rehydrate was well and good and was intended to be used in good faith but its been completely abused and hasnt worked in practice at all. If it wasnt promoters loving it as a publicity tool and a safety net to prevent cancellation then I think it would have gone back to same day weigh ins. The same day weigh ins may not have been perfect but it was better than system now and with so many weight classes its unacceptable and unnecessary to have boxers abusing the system and piling on massive weight advantages between fights.

I agree that the current system is encouraging fighters to dehydrate too much, but it does allow time to rehydrate again.

Your claim that fighters didn't dehydrate too much with same day weigh-ins seems like a very broad statement to me and is difficult to prove without any data to back it up. You could argue the same for the opposite opinion though.

Either system could work if more check weigh-ins were introduced and limits to the amount of weight a fighter can put on between weigh-in and fight night were imposed.

I followed boxing back in the days of same day weigh ins and in the vast majority of cases there were no issues of fighters coming in badly weight drained. There was certainly nothing like the current system where fighters spend the last week of their training camp on a glass of water and a bunch of laxatives. Im not saying it never happened but having same day weigh in made fighters aware that they needed to to fight in suitable weight classes. If you struggled to make weight, that was a sign it was time to move up. Now its reach more laxatives in that case. It was no advantage to a boxer to be drained for a fight so they took better care of ensuring they could make weight comfortably. Nowadays people act like if you had same day weigh ins that fighters wouldnt change anything and you would still get boxers like Chavez Jr trying to make middleweight. It wouldnt happen. He just wouldnt fight at middleweight. I think the best compromise would be to have small buffer above each weight limit for rehydration of a few pounds but in reality thats probably already in existence on same day weigh ins for the period between the weigh in and the fight. I think with so many weight classes now there isnt a valid reason for boxers to complain of being weight drained or needing to struggle to make weight. If your struggling to make weight, you shouldnt be in that weight class.

I'm old too and I don't remember there being too many issues with weight in the past, compared with today. Saying that, I didn't follow it so closely back then and access to information was not what it is today.

I agree with what you're saying, on the whole, but it would need a lot more monitoring and the rules would have to be a lot tighter on the amount of weight a fighter can lose and then put back on. All this monitoring of all these fighters would cost money though and I can't imagine too many people would be that intersted in funding such a thing. Much the same as is the current situation with drugs testing in the sport.

I just dont really see the problem with same day weigh ins, especially now that you have so many weight classes. Boxers should just fight in the class that they are natural to. It used to happen for the most part in the past. Now you have even more weight classes so it should be straightforward. I think the notion of all these boxers being dehydrated corpes if you had same day weigh ins is wide of the mark. It might happen now again but the system now is not justification for those minority incidents in my opinion.

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

bellchees wrote:Same day weigh ins are the way forward, at least this way the boxer in danger is the one dehydrating themselves and can avoid the risk if they choose to fight at a sensible weight class. At the moment it's dangerous for the journeymen getting put in against prospects who put on 20lbs between weigh in and fight and so are easily out weighing their opponents. Also as a side note I think that the majority of boxers need to spend less time in training trying to shed weight and drain themselves to make a limit and actually work on their boxing more. Looking at the best guys in each weight class they're not the ones who drain themselves and just be big at the weight it's the guys who work on their craft. Excluding the no limit heavies and the cruiserweights as I have no idea who is the best there, look through the weight divisions and best fighter is very rarely guy who piles on weight post weigh in.

That's because they don't need to because they are the best in the division.

Those with less ability may chose to cut more weight and have the size advantage on fight night.

Moving the weigh-in back to the day of the fight isn't going to stop this from happening. Those lesser fighters will still cut more weight to make the weight limit. But having it on the same day of the fight will make it more likely that they will not rehydrate fully. So we are back to square one again.

Spending more time on their boxing instead of training to make weight? Are you suggesting that some fighters neglect their boxing to spend time just losing weight? What a strange thing to do. You'd think these pro boxers would realise that they should be doing some boxing training.

The only way to make sure fighters aren't cutting too much weight by dehydrating is to have check weigh-ins every day in the weeks leading up to the fight. I'm not sure how practical an idea that is.

Thats not the case. The current rules are actually encouraging boxers to abuse their bodies more and has created a culture where boxers place huge emphasis on dehydrating down in order to take full advantage of the rehydration period. The modern rules actually encourage this. The suggestion that boxers nowadays spend training camps with a much greater emphasis on weight loss is correct and nothing like as far fetched as this myth that seems to be held that same day weigh ins did not make any difference to boxers dehydrating themselves badly. With same day weigh in boxers knew that they could not afford to boxing in weight classes they basically couldnt make. There was more emphasis on fighting in a healthy weight class and not abusing the body to the maximum level in order to take advantage of a rehydration period. The logic that giving boxers extra time to rehydrate was well and good and was intended to be used in good faith but its been completely abused and hasnt worked in practice at all. If it wasnt promoters loving it as a publicity tool and a safety net to prevent cancellation then I think it would have gone back to same day weigh ins. The same day weigh ins may not have been perfect but it was better than system now and with so many weight classes its unacceptable and unnecessary to have boxers abusing the system and piling on massive weight advantages between fights.

I agree that the current system is encouraging fighters to dehydrate too much, but it does allow time to rehydrate again.

Your claim that fighters didn't dehydrate too much with same day weigh-ins seems like a very broad statement to me and is difficult to prove without any data to back it up. You could argue the same for the opposite opinion though.

Either system could work if more check weigh-ins were introduced and limits to the amount of weight a fighter can put on between weigh-in and fight night were imposed.

I followed boxing back in the days of same day weigh ins and in the vast majority of cases there were no issues of fighters coming in badly weight drained. There was certainly nothing like the current system where fighters spend the last week of their training camp on a glass of water and a bunch of laxatives. Im not saying it never happened but having same day weigh in made fighters aware that they needed to to fight in suitable weight classes. If you struggled to make weight, that was a sign it was time to move up. Now its reach more laxatives in that case. It was no advantage to a boxer to be drained for a fight so they took better care of ensuring they could make weight comfortably. Nowadays people act like if you had same day weigh ins that fighters wouldnt change anything and you would still get boxers like Chavez Jr trying to make middleweight. It wouldnt happen. He just wouldnt fight at middleweight. I think the best compromise would be to have small buffer above each weight limit for rehydration of a few pounds but in reality thats probably already in existence on same day weigh ins for the period between the weigh in and the fight. I think with so many weight classes now there isnt a valid reason for boxers to complain of being weight drained or needing to struggle to make weight. If your struggling to make weight, you shouldnt be in that weight class.

I'm old too and I don't remember there being too many issues with weight in the past, compared with today. Saying that, I didn't follow it so closely back then and access to information was not what it is today.

I agree with what you're saying, on the whole, but it would need a lot more monitoring and the rules would have to be a lot tighter on the amount of weight a fighter can lose and then put back on. All this monitoring of all these fighters would cost money though and I can't imagine too many people would be that intersted in funding such a thing. Much the same as is the current situation with drugs testing in the sport.

I just dont really see the problem with same day weigh ins, especially now that you have so many weight classes. Boxers should just fight in the class that they are natural to. It used to happen for the most part in the past. Now you have even more weight classes so it should be straightforward. I think the notion of all these boxers being dehydrated corpes if you had same day weigh ins is wide of the mark. It might happen now again but the system now is not justification for those minority incidents in my opinion.

Yes they should, I agree, but there will still be some who will try to gain an advantage, unless rules are put in place to prevent them from doing so.

STC wrote:

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

bellchees wrote:Same day weigh ins are the way forward, at least this way the boxer in danger is the one dehydrating themselves and can avoid the risk if they choose to fight at a sensible weight class. At the moment it's dangerous for the journeymen getting put in against prospects who put on 20lbs between weigh in and fight and so are easily out weighing their opponents. Also as a side note I think that the majority of boxers need to spend less time in training trying to shed weight and drain themselves to make a limit and actually work on their boxing more. Looking at the best guys in each weight class they're not the ones who drain themselves and just be big at the weight it's the guys who work on their craft. Excluding the no limit heavies and the cruiserweights as I have no idea who is the best there, look through the weight divisions and best fighter is very rarely guy who piles on weight post weigh in.

That's because they don't need to because they are the best in the division.

Those with less ability may chose to cut more weight and have the size advantage on fight night.

Moving the weigh-in back to the day of the fight isn't going to stop this from happening. Those lesser fighters will still cut more weight to make the weight limit. But having it on the same day of the fight will make it more likely that they will not rehydrate fully. So we are back to square one again.

Spending more time on their boxing instead of training to make weight? Are you suggesting that some fighters neglect their boxing to spend time just losing weight? What a strange thing to do. You'd think these pro boxers would realise that they should be doing some boxing training.

The only way to make sure fighters aren't cutting too much weight by dehydrating is to have check weigh-ins every day in the weeks leading up to the fight. I'm not sure how practical an idea that is.

Thats not the case. The current rules are actually encouraging boxers to abuse their bodies more and has created a culture where boxers place huge emphasis on dehydrating down in order to take full advantage of the rehydration period. The modern rules actually encourage this. The suggestion that boxers nowadays spend training camps with a much greater emphasis on weight loss is correct and nothing like as far fetched as this myth that seems to be held that same day weigh ins did not make any difference to boxers dehydrating themselves badly. With same day weigh in boxers knew that they could not afford to boxing in weight classes they basically couldnt make. There was more emphasis on fighting in a healthy weight class and not abusing the body to the maximum level in order to take advantage of a rehydration period. The logic that giving boxers extra time to rehydrate was well and good and was intended to be used in good faith but its been completely abused and hasnt worked in practice at all. If it wasnt promoters loving it as a publicity tool and a safety net to prevent cancellation then I think it would have gone back to same day weigh ins. The same day weigh ins may not have been perfect but it was better than system now and with so many weight classes its unacceptable and unnecessary to have boxers abusing the system and piling on massive weight advantages between fights.

I agree that the current system is encouraging fighters to dehydrate too much, but it does allow time to rehydrate again.

Your claim that fighters didn't dehydrate too much with same day weigh-ins seems like a very broad statement to me and is difficult to prove without any data to back it up. You could argue the same for the opposite opinion though.

Either system could work if more check weigh-ins were introduced and limits to the amount of weight a fighter can put on between weigh-in and fight night were imposed.

I followed boxing back in the days of same day weigh ins and in the vast majority of cases there were no issues of fighters coming in badly weight drained. There was certainly nothing like the current system where fighters spend the last week of their training camp on a glass of water and a bunch of laxatives. Im not saying it never happened but having same day weigh in made fighters aware that they needed to to fight in suitable weight classes. If you struggled to make weight, that was a sign it was time to move up. Now its reach more laxatives in that case. It was no advantage to a boxer to be drained for a fight so they took better care of ensuring they could make weight comfortably. Nowadays people act like if you had same day weigh ins that fighters wouldnt change anything and you would still get boxers like Chavez Jr trying to make middleweight. It wouldnt happen. He just wouldnt fight at middleweight. I think the best compromise would be to have small buffer above each weight limit for rehydration of a few pounds but in reality thats probably already in existence on same day weigh ins for the period between the weigh in and the fight. I think with so many weight classes now there isnt a valid reason for boxers to complain of being weight drained or needing to struggle to make weight. If your struggling to make weight, you shouldnt be in that weight class.

I'm old too and I don't remember there being too many issues with weight in the past, compared with today. Saying that, I didn't follow it so closely back then and access to information was not what it is today.

I agree with what you're saying, on the whole, but it would need a lot more monitoring and the rules would have to be a lot tighter on the amount of weight a fighter can lose and then put back on. All this monitoring of all these fighters would cost money though and I can't imagine too many people would be that intersted in funding such a thing. Much the same as is the current situation with drugs testing in the sport.

I just dont really see the problem with same day weigh ins, especially now that you have so many weight classes. Boxers should just fight in the class that they are natural to. It used to happen for the most part in the past. Now you have even more weight classes so it should be straightforward. I think the notion of all these boxers being dehydrated corpes if you had same day weigh ins is wide of the mark. It might happen now again but the system now is not justification for those minority incidents in my opinion.

Yes they should, I agree, but there will still be some who will try to gain an advantage, unless rules are put in place to prevent them from doing so.

Making weigh ins the same day removes that advantage though and removes the incentive for trying it. The emphasis is get in the ring in the best possible condition. Not weaken yourself. In the past if a boxer struggled to make weight it usually wasnt that he was trying to gain and advantage. It was just that he had outgrown the division. And that was the sign to move up. Its only the system that has allowed this big scope for fighters seeking a huge size advantage. I just dont think boxers are going to be killing themselves to make weight in order to be much bigger in the ring when they now they have to fight the same day. The system shouldnt be designed with the purpose of trying to accommodate dehydration as much as possible - which in essence it has become. It should be to encourage fighters fighting at the correct weight limit. Its like the system now is being designed to accommodate the ones at fault. Its like continuing to increase the speed limit in order to accommodate drivers that speed.

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

catchweight wrote:

STC wrote:

bellchees wrote:Same day weigh ins are the way forward, at least this way the boxer in danger is the one dehydrating themselves and can avoid the risk if they choose to fight at a sensible weight class. At the moment it's dangerous for the journeymen getting put in against prospects who put on 20lbs between weigh in and fight and so are easily out weighing their opponents. Also as a side note I think that the majority of boxers need to spend less time in training trying to shed weight and drain themselves to make a limit and actually work on their boxing more. Looking at the best guys in each weight class they're not the ones who drain themselves and just be big at the weight it's the guys who work on their craft. Excluding the no limit heavies and the cruiserweights as I have no idea who is the best there, look through the weight divisions and best fighter is very rarely guy who piles on weight post weigh in.

That's because they don't need to because they are the best in the division.

Those with less ability may chose to cut more weight and have the size advantage on fight night.

Moving the weigh-in back to the day of the fight isn't going to stop this from happening. Those lesser fighters will still cut more weight to make the weight limit. But having it on the same day of the fight will make it more likely that they will not rehydrate fully. So we are back to square one again.

Spending more time on their boxing instead of training to make weight? Are you suggesting that some fighters neglect their boxing to spend time just losing weight? What a strange thing to do. You'd think these pro boxers would realise that they should be doing some boxing training.

The only way to make sure fighters aren't cutting too much weight by dehydrating is to have check weigh-ins every day in the weeks leading up to the fight. I'm not sure how practical an idea that is.

Thats not the case. The current rules are actually encouraging boxers to abuse their bodies more and has created a culture where boxers place huge emphasis on dehydrating down in order to take full advantage of the rehydration period. The modern rules actually encourage this. The suggestion that boxers nowadays spend training camps with a much greater emphasis on weight loss is correct and nothing like as far fetched as this myth that seems to be held that same day weigh ins did not make any difference to boxers dehydrating themselves badly. With same day weigh in boxers knew that they could not afford to boxing in weight classes they basically couldnt make. There was more emphasis on fighting in a healthy weight class and not abusing the body to the maximum level in order to take advantage of a rehydration period. The logic that giving boxers extra time to rehydrate was well and good and was intended to be used in good faith but its been completely abused and hasnt worked in practice at all. If it wasnt promoters loving it as a publicity tool and a safety net to prevent cancellation then I think it would have gone back to same day weigh ins. The same day weigh ins may not have been perfect but it was better than system now and with so many weight classes its unacceptable and unnecessary to have boxers abusing the system and piling on massive weight advantages between fights.

I agree that the current system is encouraging fighters to dehydrate too much, but it does allow time to rehydrate again.

Your claim that fighters didn't dehydrate too much with same day weigh-ins seems like a very broad statement to me and is difficult to prove without any data to back it up. You could argue the same for the opposite opinion though.

Either system could work if more check weigh-ins were introduced and limits to the amount of weight a fighter can put on between weigh-in and fight night were imposed.

I followed boxing back in the days of same day weigh ins and in the vast majority of cases there were no issues of fighters coming in badly weight drained. There was certainly nothing like the current system where fighters spend the last week of their training camp on a glass of water and a bunch of laxatives. Im not saying it never happened but having same day weigh in made fighters aware that they needed to to fight in suitable weight classes. If you struggled to make weight, that was a sign it was time to move up. Now its reach more laxatives in that case. It was no advantage to a boxer to be drained for a fight so they took better care of ensuring they could make weight comfortably. Nowadays people act like if you had same day weigh ins that fighters wouldnt change anything and you would still get boxers like Chavez Jr trying to make middleweight. It wouldnt happen. He just wouldnt fight at middleweight. I think the best compromise would be to have small buffer above each weight limit for rehydration of a few pounds but in reality thats probably already in existence on same day weigh ins for the period between the weigh in and the fight. I think with so many weight classes now there isnt a valid reason for boxers to complain of being weight drained or needing to struggle to make weight. If your struggling to make weight, you shouldnt be in that weight class.

I'm old too and I don't remember there being too many issues with weight in the past, compared with today. Saying that, I didn't follow it so closely back then and access to information was not what it is today.

I agree with what you're saying, on the whole, but it would need a lot more monitoring and the rules would have to be a lot tighter on the amount of weight a fighter can lose and then put back on. All this monitoring of all these fighters would cost money though and I can't imagine too many people would be that intersted in funding such a thing. Much the same as is the current situation with drugs testing in the sport.

I just dont really see the problem with same day weigh ins, especially now that you have so many weight classes. Boxers should just fight in the class that they are natural to. It used to happen for the most part in the past. Now you have even more weight classes so it should be straightforward. I think the notion of all these boxers being dehydrated corpes if you had same day weigh ins is wide of the mark. It might happen now again but the system now is not justification for those minority incidents in my opinion.

I agree with what you're saying mostly and I think we are in agreement that it's the fighters' health that should be the priority. We'll have to agree to disagree about fighters putting on weight regardless of the the time of the weigh-in though. No bigee.

There's been some interesting debate on the subject over the years. Just googling it now I came up with a few differing views on the subject....

http://boxingnewsonline.net/latest/feature/why-boxers-should-weigh-in-on-the-day-of-the-fight

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/124365-weigh-ins-day-before-vs-same-day

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2013/05/should-fighters-weigh-inn-the-same-day-of-the-fight/

http://www.theboxingpost.com/2011/10/should-boxing-weigh-ins-be-held-day.html

http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles-frontpage/14250-a-call-for-return-to-same-day-weigh-ins