Fury's dilemma

by armchairwarrior Wed 25 Sep 2013, 11:16 am

First topic message reminder :

My daughter has a passing interest in boxing. Give or take a few different words this is how it went....

At breakfast....

Dad, someone told me that Tyson Fury will take a keep busy fight. Whats the difference between a fight and a keep busy fight?

Tyson just wants to keep his form from his camp and fight someone much lower ranked on TV so as to not jeopardize his fight with Haye in Feb.

So..he wants an opponent who is easy and won't win.

well...Kind of...sort of like a work out for Tyson and a bit of an opportunity for someone lower down

So, its not really a competitive fight then is it if the other guy can't win - some opportunity!

I didn't say "can't" just almost certainly won't

Well whats the point then. Say if tennis was like boxing, it's like Andy Murray would play world no 196 in November waiting for Nadal in February...and who on earth would bother to watch a 6-0 6-0 thrashing. What would be the point?

erm..well ( starting to struggle )...people always like to see a fight, and Tyson's a name now through associations with Haye and people just will tune in to see fists fly whatever....

So, people will watch a really big guy beating up another guy who hasn't much hope for fun then?...

Ermm...well ( starting to fall apart and checking watch for meeting )

Thats really rubbish...Isn't it like badger baiting or where people set dogs on tied up bears..

Erm..no..NO ( finds argument )..ITS NOT. Because both are consenting adults and agree and get paid...( aha! )

Ok, so that makes it all ok then. Two guys fight each other and one has deliberately been picked because he is nowhere near as good is almost certainly going to lose and possibly be badly hurt and people watch it and its all ok because everyone taking part consents and are getting paid. Why is that a sport though?

Erm..gotta go to a meeting..

Tyson Fury faces a interesting dilemma though.

If he stays busy, who does he fight?

If its a Mike Middleton northern doorman or the like and a one round stoppage he will just be ridiculed.

If its someone like Chisora, that would be great for boxing, but very very risky for Tyson particularly as he is on good form at present ( Chisora would be insanely motivated to derail Fury )

I suspect Haye's "sparring partners" won't get a look in...

Who are the in-betweeners that Fury could get for November?

by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Thu 26 Sep 2013, 1:35 pm

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
azania wrote:Ha. That has to be a joke. The only good hw he fought beat him. But my point is that why there will be an asterisk on Haye after fury beats him.
After Fury beats Haye :laugh:That has to be a joke.

Cant see anyone on Furys CV that is better then Haye has fought. Can you shed any light on this?

Kevin "World Class" Johnson

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 2:12 pm

Ok dee. You have done incredibly well.

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Thu 26 Sep 2013, 2:23 pm

Come on Azymundo. Conveniently dodged the question is see anyone on Furys CV that is better then Haye has fought?

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 2:29 pm

With wlad on Hayes record you have to give it to Haye. But as for wins they're on par. Fury took the 0 from Hayes best win at hw.

by TopHat24/7 Thu 26 Sep 2013, 2:32 pm

Chisora is Haye's best win??

If so then, in context, that puts Haye ahead as he flattened a more experienced in better condition Del as opposed the labouring to a UD over a fat tub of lard version.

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Thu 26 Sep 2013, 2:36 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Chisora is Haye's best win??

If so then, in context, that puts Haye ahead as he flattened a more experienced in better condition Del as opposed the labouring to a UD over a fat tub of lard version.

I would also like to see Fury v Valuev

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 2:37 pm

Who else is better than del at hw that Haye beat. Lets not forget that fury beat del when he was undefeated and not coming off 3 straight losses.

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Thu 26 Sep 2013, 2:38 pm

Valuev

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 2:39 pm

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Chisora is Haye's best win??

If so then, in context, that puts Haye ahead as he flattened a more experienced in better condition Del as opposed the labouring to a UD over a fat tub of lard version.

I would also like to see Fury v Valuev

I'd rather watch grass grow or cricket.

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Thu 26 Sep 2013, 2:43 pm

Yer it would be sly to see Fury have a taste of his own medicine.

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 3:11 pm

What medicine is that?

If fury does lose it won't be for lack of trying. He will never turn his back, cower in the corner and quit.

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Thu 26 Sep 2013, 3:15 pm

azania wrote:What medicine is that?

If fury does lose it won't be for lack of trying. He will never turn his back, cower in the corner and quit.

Being the bigger fighter using his physical advantages.

True, wouldn't expect anything less from a hard man from the travelling community, but I can see him still getting KTFO against a heavyweight who can actually punch thumbsup

by Adam D Thu 26 Sep 2013, 3:16 pm

Can I just please remind people that Fury is a top bloke who is yet to have a real defining fight.

He is improving with every fight and is a real character, in a completely different way to the nasty, arrogant plebs who usually are deemed characters.

Just because there might be idiotic support based on hypocrisy, bending the truth, hating on other fighters without reason and turning a blind eye to his faults from certain posters, do not let this effect your opinion of a fighter who should get some credit despite the above.

Don't hate Fury because of the moronic support of others.

by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn Thu 26 Sep 2013, 3:22 pm

Adam D wrote:Can I just please remind people that Fury is a top bloke who is yet to have a real defining fight.

He is improving with every fight and is a real character, in a completely different way to the nasty, arrogant plebs who usually are deemed characters.

Just because there might be idiotic support based on hypocrisy, bending the truth, hating on other fighters without reason and turning a blind eye to his faults from certain posters, do not let this effect your opinion of a fighter who should get some credit despite the above.

Don't hate Fury because of the moronic support of others.

In Chris Tucker "Friday" style:

"Az gat owned da f^*k out"

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 3:33 pm

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
azania wrote:What medicine is that?

If fury does lose it won't be for lack of trying. He will never turn his back, cower in the corner and quit.
Being the bigger fighter using his physical advantages.

True, wouldn't expect anything less from a hard man from the travelling community, but I can see him still getting KTFO against a heavyweight who can actually punch

It seems your true reason for hating on fury is coming out.

Fury would beat valuev easily.

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 3:40 pm

Adam D wrote:Can I just please remind people that Fury is a top bloke who is yet to have a real defining fight.

He is improving with every fight and is a real character, in a completely different way to the nasty, arrogant plebs who usually are deemed characters.

Just because there might be idiotic support based on hypocrisy, bending the truth, hating on other fighters without reason and turning a blind eye to his faults from certain posters, do not let this effect your opinion of a fighter who should get some credit despite the above.

Don't hate Fury because of the moronic support of others.

Interesting. Very telling also. Have a dig at me but ignore the elephant in the room. I haven't said anything that others on this very thread haven't said but somehow I'm the one at fault.

I've said for a long while that fury is a genuine bloke and a true character before the pod casts. I was called a wum because it was popular to criticise him and insult him with offensive adjectives. Never mind. I expect the ban to follow soon even though rules have not been broken by myself.

by TopHat24/7 Thu 26 Sep 2013, 3:41 pm

Awwwwwwww, Az's feeling picked on and is playing innocent..... Laugh

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 3:58 pm

Nope. Just setting the record straight as there seems to be an awful lot of revisionism going on.

by hogey Thu 26 Sep 2013, 4:51 pm

Accusing others of revisionism is priceless from the bloke who just randomly with no real idea what he is talking about decided to change the facts of Fury's weight and condition for a fight he had a couple of years ago. The facts that even to this day it is considered one of his best training camps and one of his lightest ever fight weights are no barrier to Comical Aza is his mission to peddle his version of the truth.

by John Bloody Wayne Thu 26 Sep 2013, 4:54 pm

catchweight wrote:The fella Chisora fought the other night would make a good punchbag

azania wrote:He's already slapped chisora. That would be a step back.

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 7:30 pm

hogey wrote:Accusing others of revisionism is priceless from the bloke who just randomly with no real idea what he is talking about decided to change the facts of Fury's weight and condition for a fight he had a couple of years ago. The facts that even to this day it is considered one of his best training camps and one of his lightest ever fight weights are no barrier to Comical Aza is his mission to peddle his version of the truth.

I haven't changed any facts. One thing that escapes you is the simple truth that fury has been ridiculed through his career for his shape and condition. Now you're the first to rubbish that. But I believe that you're doing that just to score points and take credit away from fury for a great win. I reckon if you read the interviews with del during the build up he was saying he was in the shape of his life is going to win.

More revisionism is that some are now saying that Haye beat a better del but choose to ignore the simple fact that del was on a great losing streak. Had fury beat that Del the issue of the run of losses would be used to downgrade the win.

Pure revisionism and hypocrisy. I don't expect a response other than name calling.

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 7:31 pm

John Bloody Wayne wrote:
catchweight wrote:The fella Chisora fought the other night would make a good punchbag
azania wrote:He's already slapped chisora. That would be a step back.

by catchweight Thu 26 Sep 2013, 7:53 pm

Chisora was grossly out of shape when he fought Fury and had only fought at domestic level. Chisora when he fought Haye was in much better condition and had fought at the highest level at heavyweight. Better condition, more experienced.

by Steffan Thu 26 Sep 2013, 7:59 pm

Chisora will lose

by catchweight Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:03 pm

He might lose to Fury again. But hes progressed more than Fury since the first fight. Hes condition has improved more significantly and hes gotten much higher quality experience.

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:04 pm

catchweight wrote:Chisora was grossly out of shape when he fought Fury and had only fought at domestic level. Chisora when he fought Haye was in much better condition and had fought at the highest level at heavyweight. Better condition, more experienced.

....but on a losing streak. Showed his level which fury exposed brilliantly.

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:07 pm

catchweight wrote:He might lose to Fury again. But hes progressed more than Fury since the first fight. Hes condition has improved more significantly and hes gotten much higher quality experience.

Fury is still better.

by Steffan Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:11 pm

I dont think it matters what shape Del Boy is in. If he fights Tyson Fury again...he will lose...physically

by catchweight Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:11 pm

azania wrote:
catchweight wrote:He might lose to Fury again. But hes progressed more than Fury since the first fight. Hes condition has improved more significantly and hes gotten much higher quality experience.
Fury is still better.

They are both still rubbish though

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:17 pm

catchweight wrote:
azania wrote:
catchweight wrote:He might lose to Fury again. But hes progressed more than Fury since the first fight. Hes condition has improved more significantly and hes gotten much higher quality experience.
Fury is still better.
They are both still rubbish though

Maybe sk. But fury is still better as he easily beat him. Far easier than vitali did. Chis may have been in shape when Haye beat him but he was washed up by losing 3 fights on the bounce. Haye beat a perennial loser and gets huge props. Fury beat that loser and it's called into question.

This is a strange place.

by John Bloody Wayne Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:24 pm

azania wrote:
John Bloody Wayne wrote:
catchweight wrote:The fella Chisora fought the other night would make a good punchbag
azania wrote:He's already slapped chisora. That would be a step back.

Just a little reminder to read what somebody's written before responding.

by John Bloody Wayne Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:26 pm

azania wrote:
catchweight wrote:Chisora was grossly out of shape when he fought Fury and had only fought at domestic level. Chisora when he fought Haye was in much better condition and had fought at the highest level at heavyweight. Better condition, more experienced.
....but on a losing streak. Showed his level which fury exposed brilliantly.

Fury would be on a losing streak if he'd faced Helenious, Vitali and Haye. Even if the Helenious verdict were unfair on him, as with Chisora, (which I find likely) the other two would've knocked him out with little issue.

by John Bloody Wayne Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:30 pm

azania wrote:
catchweight wrote:
azania wrote:
catchweight wrote:He might lose to Fury again. But hes progressed more than Fury since the first fight. Hes condition has improved more significantly and hes gotten much higher quality experience.
Fury is still better.
They are both still rubbish though
Maybe sk. But fury is still better as he easily beat him. Far easier than vitali did. Chis may have been in shape when Haye beat him but he was washed up by losing 3 fights on the bounce. Haye beat a perennial loser and gets huge props. Fury beat that loser and it's called into question.

This is a strange place.

Not particularly strange, you've just described everything in an extremely biased way to cloud what actually happened to make it seem like any opposing opinion is wrong.

One could just as easily (and perhaps more accurately say) Chisora was more experienced and fitter when he fought Haye and was taken care of in greater style with less fuss than against Fury. Vitali, too, faced a fitter more experienced Del, won a wider decision than Fury and was never rocked.

by catchweight Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:30 pm

azania wrote:
catchweight wrote:
azania wrote:
catchweight wrote:He might lose to Fury again. But hes progressed more than Fury since the first fight. Hes condition has improved more significantly and hes gotten much higher quality experience.
Fury is still better.
They are both still rubbish though
Maybe sk. But fury is still better as he easily beat him. Far easier than vitali did. Chis may have been in shape when Haye beat him but he was washed up by losing 3 fights on the bounce. Haye beat a perennial loser and gets huge props. Fury beat that loser and it's called into question.

This is a strange place.

No he wasnt washed up. He was alot better than when he fought Fury. And he is alot better now than when he fought Fury. Why?

He is in better physical condition
He is more experienced

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:41 pm

JBW & CW thank you both for making my point.

by hogey Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:43 pm

azania wrote:
hogey wrote:Accusing others of revisionism is priceless from the bloke who just randomly with no real idea what he is talking about decided to change the facts of Fury's weight and condition for a fight he had a couple of years ago. The facts that even to this day it is considered one of his best training camps and one of his lightest ever fight weights are no barrier to Comical Aza is his mission to peddle his version of the truth.
I haven't changed any facts. One thing that escapes you is the simple truth that fury has been ridiculed through his career for his shape and condition. Now you're the first to rubbish that. But I believe that you're doing that just to score points and take credit away from fury for a great win. I reckon if you read the interviews with del during the build up he was saying he was in the shape of his life is going to win.

More revisionism is that some are now saying that Haye beat a better del but choose to ignore the simple fact that del was on a great losing streak. Had fury beat that Del the issue of the run of losses would be used to downgrade the win.

Pure revisionism and hypocrisy. I don't expect a response other than name calling.

Not much escapes me youngster, that's why i have shown that you were talking BS about Fury's fitness in the fight. Your simple truth as you call it is just more meaningless waffle, what people on here say or dont say in ridicule about Fury has nothing to do with how well Fury trained for a fight and for the Chisora fight he was in peak condition he was slim and toned and one of his lightest weights ever. The reality is you cant just say ok i got it wrong Tyson was not half fit instead you try the smokescreen of what people on here have said in jest about his shape, which as is clearly even to a halfwit nothing to do with the price of eggs. Look at the pictures and watch the fight again and then come back and maybe be a man and admit your full of cack of this subject.

by catchweight Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:47 pm

azania wrote:JBW & CW thank you both for making my point.

Simple yes/no question to avoid going into a propaganda battle or off on a tangent. A simple yes/no will speak for itself.

Do you think the Chisora that Fury beat was a better boxer than the Chisora now?

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:50 pm

Cw yes he is. And so is fury.

by John Bloody Wayne Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:52 pm

azania wrote:JBW & CW thank you both for making my point.

Your point was that Fury is inferior to Vitali and Haye and that his win over Chisora has reduced relevance to the result of a rematch due to Chisora's conditioning and ability improving? In that case, no problem, glad we agree.

by hogey Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:52 pm

No i think he was still a novice who was learning his trade, i think the Chisora of Saturday night was the best he has ever been because his body can now match his good boxing brain.

Sorry catchweight just realise you was asking the comical one.

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:57 pm

No hogey. What seems to escape you is that fury has never been described in the terms you are now using. He wasn't at his lightest for chus which means he trained harder for othet fights. Add to it that he is always called fat etc and even an embarrassment. Now you are doing an about turn.

Why don't you accept what you and the board have been saying for ages about fury? Do you accept you were wrong and based your ideas on your dislike of him?

by catchweight Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:57 pm

azania wrote:Cw yes he is. And so is fury.

Ah, ambiguous. How to decipher that answer?

So to confirm, the Chisora that fought Fury was better than the Chisora that fights today?

Just a yes/no?

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:58 pm

John Bloody Wayne wrote:
azania wrote:JBW & CW thank you both for making my point.
Your point was that Fury is inferior to Vitali and Haye and that his win over Chisora has reduced relevance to the result of a rematch due to Chisora's conditioning and ability improving? In that case, no problem, glad we agree.

If you say so.

by John Bloody Wayne Thu 26 Sep 2013, 8:59 pm

Well that's the point I was making, so yeah.

by **Union Cane** Thu 26 Sep 2013, 9:01 pm

Sorry to go off topic, but did we decide who Fury should fight in his keep busy fight?

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 9:02 pm

catchweight wrote:
azania wrote:Cw yes he is. And so is fury.
Ah, ambiguous. How to decipher that answer?

So to confirm, the Chisora that fought Fury was better than the Chisora that fights today?

Just a yes/no?

The chisora who fought over the weekend is better than the one who lost to fury. But fury is much better also.

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 9:04 pm

Union Cane wrote:Sorry to go off topic, but did we decide who Fury should fight in his keep busy fight?

Price. He looked sheepish on ringside. Poor dear.

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 9:05 pm

John Bloody Wayne wrote:Well that's the point I was making, so yeah.

Well done.

by azania Thu 26 Sep 2013, 9:08 pm

hogey wrote:No i think he was still a novice who was learning his trade, i think the Chisora of Saturday night was the best he has ever been because his body can now match his good boxing brain.

Sorry catchweight just realise you was asking the comical one.

Fury was also a novice and he has come along leaps and bounds since then.

by Rowley Thu 26 Sep 2013, 9:09 pm

And to think we used to criticise folk for responding to Gordy

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