Australia in India

First topic message reminder :

Srinivasan stays....puts his own men is the big event that will have it's impact on Indian and global cricket.
meanwhile Indian squad for the ODIs vs. Aus is announced.

the only noteworthy change is the return of Yuvraj....who will most likely play instead of Dinesh Kaarthik....who should have no complains at being dropped.
he blew so many chances of establishing himself as an India regular......his international career is over  from what I can see.
Yadav is not in the squad...I hope he has not picked an injury....and it's a case of preserving him for test matches.....whihc would be a wise move.
Shami ahmed should be the first choice 3rd seamer in that case


Squad: MS Dhoni (capt), Shikhar Dhawan, Rohit Sharma, Virat Kohli, Yuvraj Singh, Suresh Raina, Ravindra Jadeja, R Ashwin, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Ishant Sharma, Vinay Kumar, Amit Mishra, Ambati Rayudu, Mohammed Shami, Jaydev Unadkat

Australia have shifted gears with the arrival of Madman Maxwell at the crease. Hughes the last out for 83, caught Dhoni of Ashwin. Maxwell has moved along to 28 of 19, and George Bailey is continuing his outstanding ODI form. Australia 264-3

Jadeja finishes with 0-72 from his 10.

Australia 302-3 after 45. 350 looks just a matter of time.

Maxwell's run-out for a 32 ball 53. Australia 308-4 in the 46th.

India has only one chance of making the chase...if Dhawan get a big hundred PLUS kohli a Big 50 atleast.
 
Raina and downwards are good for 20s and 30s and can finish the last 1/3rd of the chase only

Australia end up with 359-5 in their 50 overs. A seriously difficult score for India to try and chase down. They haven't ever successfully chased an Australian score above 300 as yet.

Every other bowler, other than Bhuvneshwar Kumar had a poor day in the office. Ishant Sharma and Vinay Kumar continued to give away runs, and R Ashwin too had a poor game, not even completing his quota. Ravindra Jadeja who was impressive in the T-20I and the first game also couldn't control the flow of runs with any real success, and Yuvraj couldn't take wickets or keep down the runs, and he missed a crucial catch of Finch and an opportunity to run Watson out early in his innings.

India 95 without loss after 15. They were 69 without loss after 10, so Australia have managed to pull things back a bit in the last 5 overs.
Shikhar Dhawan was dropped by wicketkeeper Haddin when on 18 with the Indian score at 39. Shikhar has now moved along to 45.

KP_fan wrote:India has only one chance of making the chase...if Dhawan get a big hundred PLUS kohli a Big 50 atleast.
 
Raina and downwards are good for 20s and 30s and can finish the last 1/3rd of the chase only

and so far on course.....if the top 3 get us 1/3rd runs...say 200ish in 35 overs......then the raina, Dhoni Jadeja etal can pull throuhg the 160 in last 15 overs

we need one burst of 50 runs in 4 overs..to bring the requiremrnt down to more manageable proportions.

If I was Dhoni I would take thr power play now with both openers set

India 144-0 after 22 overs. Dhawan on 66, Sharma on 61.
Interestingly, Mitchell Johnson has bowled only 3 overs so far. He did bowl a couple of wides, but Johnson was fast and hostile and didn't give away too many runs.

anotehr 50 odd from Dhwan would have put India comfortably

Rohit has to switch gears now.....and show his ability to tear bowlings aparat as he used to in T20s

After Dhawan went for 95, the flow of runs have come down. In a chase of 360, there can't be too many quiet overs.

India 183-1 after 28 overs.

Rohit Sharma is down with Cramps. He Slammed McKay for a big 6 and even before the ball crossed the boundary went down.

Rohit is back on. Remains to be seen how the cramps would affect his running between the wickets, and his concentration.

India 218-1 after 31.

Kohli is on fire....some-body told him he needs to finish with a bonus point

Kohli is playing a miraculous inning

Now India should not get complacent and these two should close it out......not give Aussies even a sniff ...whihc they can only if we lose a few quick wickets.
 
Shastri celebrating pre-maturely......immature......he has jinxed India multiple times with his childish pre.mature celebrations

India 302-1 after 39 overs. Rohit Sharma has scored his 3rd ODI ton, his first as opener, and first real substantive innings after that knock of 82 against England early this year.

India 320-1 after 40. In a chase of 360, who'd have imagined that they'd require only 4 an over in the last 10?

India have won!!. And they've chased down a total of 359 with 39 balls remaining and 9 wickets in hand!. An absolute thumping this is!. Rohit Sharma not out on 141, and Virat Kohli 100 not out. Kohli's hundred, his 16th in ODIs, came of only 52 balls, and its the fastest by an Indian, and 7th fastest overall.

Rohit Sharma the man of the match. Good to see him acknowledging that he hasn't been converting starts and has often played stupid shots to give starts, but just don't like the part where he said its my natural game.
Hopefully, this will be the start of Rohit Sharma really taking off, rather than the single reference point for his supporters for the next year or so.
The pitch was an ugly flat one, (Ravi Shastri refered to it as a beauty! Stupid!) but it really was an amazing chase.
Hopefully there will be a proper wicket for the next game.

Just saw the score on the BBC website. Did they forget that they weren't playing T20 still?

From what I saw of the CLT20, Rohit Sharma has been in exceptional form for a few weeks. Not the biggest guy but he doesn't half hit it a long way, and to just about whichever part of the ground he chooses.

You score 360, you don't expect to be losing with over 5 overs left and with only 1 wicket down...

Time for these guys to start stepping up and filling the gaps in the Indian Test team left by your recent (and forthcoming) retirements

Feel sorry for Rohit haters.

Extraordinary stuff from Virat too.

Feel sorry for Rohit haters.

Extraordinary stuff from Virat too.

Feel sorry for Rohit haters.

Extraordinary stuff from Virat too.

ShankyCricket wrote:Feel sorry for Rohit haters.

Extraordinary stuff from Virat too.

Shanky, your excitement at Rohit's performance is reflected in the same comment being repeated thrice. Good performance from Rohit today, but hopefully there won't be a 3 year gap between this hundred and the next one as was the case between this one and the last.

dummy_half wrote:Just saw the score on the BBC website. Did they forget that they weren't playing T20 still?

From what I saw of the CLT20, Rohit Sharma has been in exceptional form for a few weeks. Not the biggest guy but he doesn't half hit it a long way, and to just about whichever part of the ground he chooses.

You score 360, you don't expect to be losing with over 5 overs left and with only 1 wicket down...

Time for these guys to start stepping up and filling the gaps in the Indian Test team left by your recent (and forthcoming) retirements

Dummy
think Rohit has to really earn his test spot. This is the first year in his 7 year old international career that Rohit has shown some remote signs of consistency for the first time. Even this year, he has been throwing away a lot of start, and this is his first ODI hundred in 3 years. He has made a lot of First Class runs, the talent is there to play some graceful and brilliant strokes, but he hasn't really played notable first class knocks in challenging conditions. The test place shouldn't come so easily to him.

Was not present here on this forum for the day, how can I miss some excited play today. A superb superb superb victory. I don't have words to express the chase. WEEEEE WONNN

ShankyCricket wrote:
Feel sorry for Rohit haters.

I also have Rohit in my wishlist squad.

but that underlined is not the right spirit
because if he flops in the next two games.....it will fuel the "Rohit haters".

we all follow cricket throuhgly and have formed opinions over a number of games......
so for example if Ishant was to pick 6 wkts over next two games....my opinion would not change of him so suddenly.

as for todays game.....let's cherish a wonderful win......showing the power and panache of India's new generation batting...and leave it at that

His only substantive contribution since the 80 against England? I mean, give me a break! The guy was the leading run scorer in the tri series in the Caribbean in tough conditions and the 4th highest run scorer (overall) and the 2nd highest run scoring Indian in the Champions Trophy. Unless only 100s count as meaningful contributions.

How many "substantive contributions" has the "matchwinner" Suresh Raina come up with since the India series?

KP_fan wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:
Feel sorry for Rohit haters.

I also have Rohit in my wishlist squad.

but that underlined is not the right spirit
because if he flops in the next two games.....it will fuel the "Rohit haters".

we all follow cricket throuhgly and have formed opinions over a number of games......
so for example if Ishant was to pick 6 wkts over next two games....my opinion would not change of him so suddenly.

as for todays game.....let's cherish a wonderful win......showing the power and panache of India's new generation batting...and leave it at that

I wasn't necessarily hinting at you or even msp (there are lots of Rohit haters in cyberspace) but I do have an issue with you listing Rahane, who hasn't done anything of note at international level yet as a 'certainty' or a 'core player' for the WC whereas Rohit, who has been very consistent, albeit not brilliant, this year as a 'probable'

msp83 wrote:

dummy_half wrote:Just saw the score on the BBC website. Did they forget that they weren't playing T20 still?

From what I saw of the CLT20, Rohit Sharma has been in exceptional form for a few weeks. Not the biggest guy but he doesn't half hit it a long way, and to just about whichever part of the ground he chooses.

You score 360, you don't expect to be losing with over 5 overs left and with only 1 wicket down...

Time for these guys to start stepping up and filling the gaps in the Indian Test team left by your recent (and forthcoming) retirements

Dummy
think Rohit has to really earn his test spot. This is the first year in his 7 year old international career that Rohit has shown some remote signs of consistency for the first time. Even this year, he has been throwing away a lot of start, and this is his first ODI hundred in 3 years. He has made a lot of First Class runs, the talent is there to play some graceful and brilliant strokes, but he hasn't really played notable first class knocks in challenging conditions. The test place shouldn't come so easily to him.

So easily? He's averaging 60 in FC cricket over 7 seasons. And he did score a 100 in the only FC innings he had for India A in SA.

I just don't get it. Rohit has done all that he possibly could at FC level to earn a Test cap. Its his ODI display that held him back and now that he's finally showing consistency even in ODIs, people still have a problem and feel someone like Juneja who has had just 1 good season, should be ahead of him in the pecking order, whereas a bloke consistent in FC cricket for 7 years has to "earn" his spot. No personal offence intended but these double standards just cheese me off.

Rahane has played 16 ODIs at a considerably lower average than Rohit and had an absolute shocker of a Test debut where he played probably one of the worst shots played by a youngster on test debut yet he gets a far easier ride among fans than Rohit. Okay, he hasn't got as many chances as Rohit in ODIs but still, 16 ODIs isn't a very small sample size either and he hasn't taken the chances he has got either. Just getting fewer chances than Rohit automatically makes him a better player??? Also, his FC average from being 8 runs higher than his nearest rival 3 years back has dipped below Rohit's, ever since his India debut whereas Rohit's has remained steady. Rohit's 'conversion rate' at FC level is better than even Pujara's but lets ignore all that! Bashing Rohit is 'fashionable' on the internet. I'm not denying that he has been a disappointment at international level in the past but I'd argue that he was given his chances in the wrong format. His domestic OD record is not a patch on his FC record. Plus whilst he has had plenty of chances in ODIs, they haven't been at a stable spot. For instance, if you look at his ODI record at different positions, he has done well in the middle order at 5 but hasn't been stable as he has often been moved to 4, 6 or even 7 to suit the requirements of the team. Despite all that, I still agree that he should've done better but just how long are we gonna hold his past against him, that too in a different format whilst picking guys who are completely unproven at this level?

ShankyCricket wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:
Feel sorry for Rohit haters.
 

I also have Rohit  in my wishlist squad.

but that underlined is not the right spirit
because if he flops in the next two games.....it will fuel the "Rohit haters".

we all follow cricket throuhgly and have formed opinions over a number of games......
so for example if Ishant was to pick 6 wkts over next two games....my opinion would not change of him so suddenly.

as for todays game.....let's cherish a wonderful win......showing the power and panache of India's new generation batting...and leave it at that

I wasn't necessarily hinting at you or even msp (there are lots of Rohit haters in cyberspace) but I do have an issue with you listing Rahane, who hasn't done anything of note at international level yet as a 'certainty' or a 'core player' for the WC whereas Rohit, who has been very consistent, albeit not brilliant, this year as a 'probable'

sorry I didn't know that I had to make "my" wishlist as per "your" wishes  

What is your reasoning though?

ShankyCricket wrote:What is your reasoning though?

Rahane has a tighter technique and a stronger temperament and good strokes.

and he delievred in the early chances he was given in ODIs ( see list below) ...following his good show in IPL

but inspite of delivering in his first 2 series in eng and in India ...he was dumped and then a lot of in and out....no consistent run .....other short circuited to be put ahead of him.0
even now he had a solid CLT2

so in terms of potential to deliver I rank him and Pujara as far better...and if they are give the run and chances......they would be established ODI players by now

40 65 44 6 0 90.90 2 caught 1 v England Chester-le-Street 3 Sep 2011 ODI # 3186
54 89 47 5 1 114.89 2 caught 1 v England Southampton 6 Sep 2011 ODI # 3187
0 3 3 0 0 0.00 2 caught 1 v England The Oval 9 Sep 2011 ODI # 3189
38 60 53 5 1 71.69 2 lbw 1 v England Lord's 11 Sep 2011 ODI # 3191
26 54 47 3 0 55.31 2 caught 1 v England Cardiff 16 Sep 2011 ODI # 3195
15 59 41 0 0 36.58 2 stumped 1 v England Hyderabad (Deccan) 14 Oct 2011 ODI # 3199
14 34 15 1 1 93.33 2 caught 2 v England Delhi 17 Oct 2011 ODI # 3201
91 166 104 6 0 87.50 2 caught 2 v England Mohali 20 Oct 2011 ODI # 3205
20 - 37 1 0 54.05 2 caught 2 v England Mumbai 23 Oct 2011 ODI # 3207

Rahane no doubt is one of the brilliant talent, India has. I too like him for his genuine technique, temperament and game play. His first class average is 60+. He has delivered when ever he played.
Rohit is also the same. While looking at Rohit for the first time in 2007, his temperament and way he play made me think that he could be a good test player but unfortunately he was not picked, and when he was there in 15 member squad he was not given any chances.

No offence friends but I feel he is first in the queue of some of young Indian talents to fill the gap that will be created after Sachin's retirement.

Gosh, how times have changed in the 50-over format. Time was when 200 was considered a competitive score, while if you got 250 you were pretty much immune from defeat.
Nowadays, if you get 300 - admittedly a terrific score - you are not always guaranteed victory. 350, as we saw yesterday, is achieveable, too.
Big bats, short boundaries, attacking instincts, imaginative strokes - they are combining to provide some high-scoring encounters.

ShankyCricket wrote:

msp83 wrote:

dummy_half wrote:Just saw the score on the BBC website. Did they forget that they weren't playing T20 still?

From what I saw of the CLT20, Rohit Sharma has been in exceptional form for a few weeks. Not the biggest guy but he doesn't half hit it a long way, and to just about whichever part of the ground he chooses.

You score 360, you don't expect to be losing with over 5 overs left and with only 1 wicket down...

Time for these guys to start stepping up and filling the gaps in the Indian Test team left by your recent (and forthcoming) retirements

Dummy
think Rohit has to really earn his test spot. This is the first year in his 7 year old international career that Rohit has shown some remote signs of consistency for the first time. Even this year, he has been throwing away a lot of start, and this is his first ODI hundred in 3 years. He has made a lot of First Class runs, the talent is there to play some graceful and brilliant strokes, but he hasn't really played notable first class knocks in challenging conditions. The test place shouldn't come so easily to him.

So easily? He's averaging 60 in FC cricket over 7 seasons. And he did score a 100 in the only FC innings he had for India A in SA.

Shanky, I believe you know Ajay Jadeja averaged over 50 in a long first class career and yet we know what he did at the test level. Ravindra Jadeja and Abhishek Nayar also averages over 50 at first class level, while Ambati Rayudu averages less than either of them. S Badrinath has been averaging close to 60 in FC cricket, and he has been around a lot longer than the case with Rohit. Make what you want out of all that.
I think Rahane has a better temperament than what Rohit has got. And a good technique as well. Even yesterday, Rohit, after admitting that he did get out and gave away many starts playing 'Stupid shots', went on to claim that that's all part of his natural game!. Who does he think he is? Virender Sehwag? Chris Gayle? Kevin Pietersen?
And as KPF pointed out, the difference between Rahane and Rohit at the ODI level is that one got less chances as such. Unlike Rohit who got extended runs with the side many times over, Rahane, even after doing well in his first series and alright in his 2nd one, never got a consistent run in the side. So its not just a difference between 104 and 16, its about how they got to play those 104 and 16 games.
As for Juneja, from whatever I've seen of him and heard and read about him, the lad seems to be made of a stern temperament. and he has been averaging 75 after playing 14 first class games, going by your logic in the Rohit-Rahane context, 14 can't be a very shabby sample size either. I did mention Juneja as a test potential in the middle order, provided he continues to score big in the early exchanges in the domestic season.
Rohit has been a serious let down for good part of his 7 year career. He played a fine innings yesterday, and has had a relatively successful year so far in 2013. But lets at least hold off before conclusions about him walking into the test side, at least up to the next 5 matches. After scoring this much needed hundred, lets see how Rohit would go about. Can he produce at least a couple of substantive performances in the next 5 games, then yes, there is some justification.

As for what I mean by substantive performances, you don't have to always score hundreds. Even the other innings I mentioned in that context was a knock of 82 and that certainly is less than hundred. A 70+ score is a substantive effort from an opener in my book. A 40 ball 60 in a chase of 300 is pretty much there, a 10 ball 25 at the end of an innings from a middle order player is there.
But an opener giving away an innings of say 52 of 80 balls is a criminal waste for me. An opener getting out after doing all the early hardwork to reach 30 or 40 is letting your team down.

If Rohit is getting a lot of criticism from the followers of the game in India, I would say he does deserve most of it.
The team management continuing with him is not the sign that he has been doing outstandingly well, but because they feel that he is a special talent who would deliver eventually. Doesn't mean that they would take so kindly to all his failings over the years.
The thing going for Rohit is he's still relatively young and if he eventually finds his place in international cricket, he has a few good years to offer to Indian cricket.
I too hope that this 7 year old investment that mostly suffered losses up to now would produce some massive profit for Team India management hereafter.

Lets not get too carried away by this hundred though, while we have the example of James Anderson, we also shouldn't forget Mark Ramprakash and Graeme Hick.

msp83 wrote:As for what I mean by substantive performances, you don't have to always score hundreds. Even the other innings I mentioned in that context was a knock of 82 and that certainly is less than hundred. A 70+ score is a substantive effort from an opener in my book. A 40 ball 60 in a chase of 300 is pretty much there, a 10 ball 25 at the end of an innings from a middle order player is there.
But an opener giving away an innings of say 52 of 80 balls is a criminal waste for me. An opener getting out after doing all the early hardwork to reach 30 or 40 is letting your team down.

I agree with most of your points here. He is a player who has temperament just like a test batsman, but unfortunately he is still not in the team. Judging his talent for longer formats based on what he has done in One dayers is not justified. At-least he should be tested once in test matches. I feel he will play his part there. I still feel he is not of One day temperament but he suits in tests.

Kumar, a player who is prone to in his own words 'Stupid Shots' to give away hard earned starts will be a liability in test match cricket. Rohit Does average 60 in first class. But can you tell me about one innings of his, of the kind that Manish Pandey played in the 2009 Ranji final? Rohit's first class runs came mostly on flat roads.
I am not yet discounting him from India's test plans. But I absolute disagree projections that suggest that him taking a position in the Indian middle order is a historical given and that he's the undisputed number 1 in the pecking order. Rohit has done nothing to gain such blanket endorsement.

On which planet did Rahane have a good start to his ODI career?
Btw, I like the lad too but I can't really understand how he's automatically being portrayed as having a better temperament than Rohit just because he has got fewer chances (his shot in the Delhi Test was more stupid than anything I've ever seen Rohit do on a cricket field). Yes, he hasn't played 104 ODIs but the ones he has played have all been at the same position unlike Rohit, who batted at 6 one day, 4 the other, then at 7 before finally settling down as an opener. Also, I'd argue Rohit was probably picked a little too early and in the wrong format. Rahane too perhaps got his chances in the wrong format first but at least he had a wealth of experience at first class level, A tours, Emerging tours, etc. before being asked to make the step up at int'l level as opposed to Rohit, who was picked early as we were looking for fresh blood after the dismal 2007 WC campaign and Rohit was thought of as an extraordinary talent. As far as him having a better technique than Rohit is concerned, his technique was ruthlessly exposed by Steven Finn on FLAT wickets, where he kept playing across straight deliveries. Rohit was given a go instead on a SEAMING wicket at Mohali and scored 83 in his first innings as a full time ODI opener and hasn't looked back since. Yet people cry over why Rohit is ahead of Rahane in the pecking order? Rahane is already an automatic pick for the WC in the eyes of some without having done ANYTHING at int'l level as yet, whereas the guy who replaced him and has produced consistent performances ever since should be below him in the pecking order?

I'm not denying that Rohit has underperformed in the past. But that doesn't automatically make the untested players better. Those who follow the domestic scene a lot closer than we do, will tell you that Manish Pandey has a far greater penchant for throwing away his wicket than Rohit but because we haven't seen him do that for India in international cricket, we automatically assume he must be better. This is what annoys me. You haven't even seen Juneja bat by your own admittance (your opinion is based on what you've "heard" of him) and you think he should be ahead of Rohit in the pecking order. Btw, I'm not opposed to picking him. But please stop assuming that untried players will definitely have a better temperament than Rohit. They may or may not. But you seemed rather comprehensive in your judgement that players, whom we haven't even seen a lot of, are definitely better than Rohit.

Btw apologies for the pedantry but in response to your "who does he think he is - Sehwag? Gayle? KP?" comment, I object to Gayle being mentioned in the same breath as Sehwag and KP. He's not even half as good a Test player as those 2. I'll be slated for this but in terms of pure batsmanship, I think Rohit is far more gifted than Gayle. He's a natural timer of the ball as opposed to Gayle, who is a power hitter. And I think he'll become a much better Test player than Gayle.