Championship Travellers

Just reading the news this morning and noticed that Barker defending his title in Stuttgart against Felix Sturm. Brave move in my eyes, and one that will indeed pay well. My concern is he gets robbed like Macklin and loses his belt. A rematch clause has bern put in there as well, so a return fight in the UK is a possibility, and i think that clause will be activated unless Sturm turns back time and puts on a decent showing in Germany.

Also, we have Klitschko heading to Moscow in a super fight at Heavy against the best out there besides in Povetkin. Many have called this a unification fight, when actually its not. Its just the best fight out there in the division at the moment. I sense no robbery here as i think Povetkin gets sparked mid way.

Vitali also travelled to Poland i believe against adamek and put on a clinic.

The point in trying to make here is that while these champions travel into their opponents back yard, such as Froch when fighting Kessler and defending in the super 6, why do some champions get a lot of leeway in where they fight?

Are they scared to travel outside their respective comfort zones? Is it money? I have no idea.

I mean, look at Ward. Look at Bute (although he did actually travel for the unification fight with froch for the 1st time really and got destroyed), look at Roman Martinez when he travelled.

I just don't understand it really. If you KNOW you can win, or you have previous history with an opponent, then surely grabbing some exposure and some added cash in another country, coupled with the fact you can grab another belt is surely enough reason to jump on the flight??

Step forward and share views on this and any other notable champions that have travelled, or contenders/champions that point blank refuse to leave their gardens.

Its all money

If you hail from Las Vagas or Atlantic city makes sense to stay and collect big bucks.

Ali travelled but with him it was like a home fight where ever he went

True one two, and same could be said for Mayweather, Pacquiao or even Ricky Hatton in his prime days. But some guys out there ain't household names and just don't travel and actually make less money staying where they are instead of going beyond the lime of risk and taking a chance.

If you make a good enough offer most will travel. Ward not travelling to UK is probably more down to Eddie being tightfisted than Ward not travelling. The way the judging is in boxing its not surprising that travelling to an opponents home is going to cost a bomb.

Calzaghe used to travel quite a bit as well. Fought the German Mario Veit in Niedersachsen, Germany

Englishman Richie Woodhall in Sheffield, England

Englishman Robin Reid in Newcastle, England

Englishman David Starie in Manchester, England

Even won his title against Englishman Chris Eubanks in Sheffield, England

Never afraid to go into foreign territories and hostile crowds was our Joe

Also travelled stateside for Hopkins and Jones Jr as well. Was a refreshing change seeing how much and how well he travelled. A true champ.

England is not a hostile environment to the Welsh. We just ignore them as mainly irrelevant.

Steffan wrote:Calzaghe used to travel quite a bit as well. Fought the German Mario Veit in Niedersachsen, Germany

Englishman Richie Woodhall in Sheffield, England

Englishman Robin Reid in Newcastle, England

Englishman David Starie in Manchester, England

Even won his title against Englishman Chris Eubanks in Sheffield, England

Never afraid to go into foreign territories and hostile crowds was our Joe

    

mobilemaster8 wrote:Also travelled stateside for Hopkins and Jones Jr as well. Was a refreshing change seeing how much and how well he travelled. A true champ.

So 3 times in an almost 50 fight career?? He was the definition of protected stay at home fighter. The sad part being he had the talent not to be.

bhb001 wrote:England is not a hostile environment to the Welsh. We just ignore them as mainly irrelevant.

Thats incredibly offensive actually.

Not really tophat, he was welsh and fought outside his country numerous occasions as opposed to staying at the millenium stadium all career etc ect. Germany, USA twice, fought the champ Eubank outside of wales against an English fighter. Same with Woodhall and Reid in relatively big fights.

Same can not be said of Ward really. Could come to Europe to have fought Kessler bearing in mind Kessler was the champ. Could come to England to fight froch for his belt but again didn't. He has fought every fight at home with hos family watching. That's a lot less travel then JC.

bhb001 wrote:England is not a hostile environment to the Welsh. We just ignore them as mainly irrelevant

Oh come on have you not watched the Woodhall and Reid fights. Every round you can hear chants towards Calzaghe in regards to a certain fluffy animal. Nothing is as bad as the Mark Delaney in Essex which Calzaghe says was the most hostile enviroment he ever fought in

Funnily enough my mate went to the Nathan Cleverly v Tony Bellew fight in Liverpool and said wherever you went that night it was 'Oi Taffy ya boy is gonna get beat tonight ya filthy f--king Welsh sheep sha--er' etc

To be fair though whenever iv been to Liverpool its been pretty friendly I guess a guy like Tony Bellew doesnt exactly attract the best type of people

Small Time wrote:

bhb001 wrote:England is not a hostile environment to the Welsh. We just ignore them as mainly irrelevant.

Thats incredibly offensive actually.

Suspect it was only written to get a rise out of Steffan, whose post did invite it to be fair. I am half welsh myself but if I ban everyone on here who says something derisory about the Welsh there will probably only be me left on here.

Plus Bellew is Love sacks

Steffan wrote:Oh come on have you not watched the Woodhall and Reid fights. Every round you can hear chants towards Calzaghe in regards to a certain fluffy animal.

Suspect your TV was on the blink Steffan because I was at the Woodhall fight and this certainly does not ring true with my recollection from inside the arena. Not going to say there was not the odd tool there, because when is there ever not but think most there appreciated what was an enjoyable fight and gave both fighters plenty of respect.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Not really tophat, he was welsh and fought outside his country numerous occasions as opposed to staying at the millenium stadium all career etc ect. Germany, USA twice, fought the champ Eubank outside of wales against an English fighter. Same with Woodhall and Reid in relatively big fights.

His country is the UK, whether you like it or not. David Haye fighting in Manchester isn't 'travelling' despite it being a 'home ground' for Fury.

JC didn't travel. It's one of his biggest weaknesses, along with all the filler on his CV.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Same can not be said of Ward really. Could come to Europe to have fought Kessler bearing in mind Kessler was the champ. Could come to England to fight froch for his belt but again didn't. He has fought every fight at home with hos family watching. That's a lot less travel then JC.

Ward 'travelling' to Atlantic City is the same as JC venturing out of his Welsh backyard.

Not really though top hate. Its England, Wales, Scotland and NI.

Yes its the UK but the English will route for the English if a Scotsman turned up against their own.

I take it when England played Scotland at Wembley we were all cheering for everyone?

They'll all constituent parts of the UK. Like States in America. Speak to a Texan, they consider themselves to have a very individual character but they're still American.

Oakland to Atlantic City is further than JC ever travelled until the last two fights of his career and as different a culture and environment as going Wales to England.

Hopkins v Calzaghe was like a home fight anyway as us Welsh took over Vegas that weekend and B-Hop didnt really bring any fans

I also went to the Roy Jones fight and while apparently there was more travelling Welshman than the B-Hop fight it did feel a bit more 50/50 in terms of crowd as there were plenty of American Roy fans there who were a really good crack I must say

And i agree with that notion regarding the states in the US, but he has fought Froch in Atlantic city, and Froch is English, hence i said he hasn't travelled.

Its not like he has EVER fought someone worthy, even in their own State or Country.

If he fought someone in their own STATE then fair enough, but that's not even happened let alone another country.

At least the rest of the super 6 travelled around, even if they were the champs. JC did more than Ward has at the moment.

Ward gets some random status as some p4p fighter based on fighting opponents in the US like Kessler and Froch who are the two names on his resume to give him such a status.

His win over a Dawson was tarnished due to the weight and he has since been clocked by Adonis.

He hardly fights EVER, calls himself the son of god, yet will decline fights abroad against Kessler and Froch because he is some sort of "ghost" son of god?!

I don't like the guy and a certainly don't rate him as high as most, if im honest.

but, ill eat my words if he fights Froch in the UK or at least a neutral territory as opposed to a state or country that froch isn't even from.

Small Time wrote:

bhb001 wrote:England is not a hostile environment to the Welsh. We just ignore them as mainly irrelevant.

Thats incredibly offensive actually.

And that was what I was going for

bhb001 wrote:

Small Time wrote:

bhb001 wrote:England is not a hostile environment to the Welsh. We just ignore them as mainly irrelevant.

Thats incredibly offensive actually.

And that was what I was going for

Didnt really work though did it  

 

Steffan wrote:

bhb001 wrote:

Small Time wrote:

bhb001 wrote:England is not a hostile environment to the Welsh. We just ignore them as mainly irrelevant.

Thats incredibly offensive actually.

And that was what I was going for

Didnt really work though did it  

And if Ward and JC had been around in the same eras we could've been blessed with a situation where the two top guns in the division never get it on because neither will leave home.

JC, as great as he is, wasted his talent and could've done more. However I'd still back Ward against him 8 times out of 10.

TopHat24/7 wrote:However I'd still back Ward against him 8 times out of 10

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

What promoter is going to want to pay Ward a chunk to come over and beat their champion? Hearn is taking you for a ride. The last thing he wants is Ward to come and relieve him of his prize asset. Not when he can flog Froch against opponents like Groves on ppv.

Ward beats Calzaghe? No chance.

Catch, i understand your point, but as a promoter of a fighter clearly on a good run of wins and knockouts, why wouldn't you get an in-active, injury prone fighter to fight outside his country for the first time in front of a hostile crowd well outside his comfort zone? Not only that, but a fighter who is apparently p4p no2 on earth.

could ward handle the pressure? Well we wont know will we, but as a promoter, id give it a go, after all, the judges only scored the fight within a few rounds in Atlantic city.

Froch seems to have a new edge and is revelling his time in the limelight, has put on very very good shows in Bute, Mack, Kessler and i don't think ward would dare step in the UK for a fight with him at all.

I think its the other way around. Froch is making big bucks for Hearn and I dont think he would dare risk paying out big money to bring Ward over and spoil it. Ward is probably making chump change by comparison and would love a big offer.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Ward beats Calzaghe? No chance.

JC scraped past Hoppo, Ward is a fitter sharper peak version of Hoppo who wouldn't give up the ghost or struggle to last out the fight.

The fact that a narrow victory over old man Hoppo is the highlight of JC's CV says more about JC than anything else.

I assume you don't rate Mayweather that highly then MM because he's never fought outside of America.

catchweight wrote:I think its the other way around. Froch is making big bucks for Hearn and I dont think he would dare risk paying out big money to bring Ward over and spoil it. Ward is probably making chump change by comparison and would love a big offer.

It's an easy night's work for Ward...I fail to see why he's piddling about. Even at 70% he beats a fully fit Froch. Come over, silence the Nottingham boo-boys, get your cheque, go home, job's a good 'un.

He could wear flip flops in the ring and still be OK as Froch isn't good enough to take him into the trenches where, as you all know, real Warriors fight because Froch is a Warrior who thrives on the heat of battle (I've not mentioned that before but decided I would just to get across how much of a Warrior Carl Froch is), the blood and guts of real conflict, drawing lines in the sand (which appear to be in the trenches but I'm not sure how easy it would be to dig a trench in sand...surely it would keep collapsing...maybe it has to be raining first) and essentially just being more of a Warrior than other people who think they're Warriors but aren't or maybe they are but certainly not real Warriors like what Carl Froch is.

I never said i didn't rate Ward based on his reluctance to fight out his comfort zone, but as eluded to before by TopHat, fighting in different states against the "state" fighter is something Mayweather already did. Look at Gatti for example with his words being "im going to go to his home city and shut his fans up and embarrass him".

Ward has done no such thing, has fought nowhere near the same quality fighters, bores the Poopie out of everyone with his Hopkins tactics and generates a tenner in gate profits on a good day.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I assume you don't rate Mayweather that highly then MM because he's never fought outside of America.

And barely out of Vegas, his home patch.








NB: (to Truss) I am not slating PBF for this, it is not a criticism of him, just a highlight of the fallibility of MM8's argument.

I think Ward is worried about it being another Dirrell style robbery though probably even worse as Ward would destroy Froch again but not knock him out and Eddie Fast Car is a shifty guy Ward knows this

And i know the level of comp at SMW is limited got Ward, but to be compared to Mayweather then step up to LHW and fight Hopkins, Adonis, Bute, Pascal, Kovalev. Or call out GGG when he proves himself. Even chavez jr.

Facing Gatti in Atlantic city I think it was is nothing to write home about, he was still an american fighting in america against an overmatched opponent.

Not really hammer, he had a hostile crowd and may as well have been fighting abroad as TopHat has already stated.

When have we seen ward do that then?

bhb001 wrote:

Small Time wrote:

bhb001 wrote:England is not a hostile environment to the Welsh. We just ignore them as mainly irrelevant.

Thats incredibly offensive actually.

And that was what I was going for

Thanks. Rowley has made it clear that these comments will be tolerated as most posters make them so its my fault for taking offence.

He cant make Hearn offer him money. I dont know why its assumed Ward is turning down an offer to come over. Chances are there is no offer there. I dont really have much interest in seeing a rematch anyhow. Id rather Froch go to light heavyweight and see him in with Stevenson or Kovalov or even Pascal again. Those would be good fights. Ward coming over and methodically outpointing Foch would be dull and its easy to see why Hearn would avoid it at all costs. The first fight was enough and doesnt call for a rematch.

It does call for a rematch because carl will and has already stated hw wants to avenge his defeat to him. He holds the money at SMW now, is in better and bigger fights, sells out all the time and puts on a brutal show.

Ward cant get that money anywhere on earth and cant sell out his own car let alone Oakland.

Steffan wrote:I think Ward is worried about it being another Dirrell style robbery though probably even worse as Ward would destroy Froch again but not knock him out and Eddie Fast Car is a shifty guy Ward knows this

Can't see it being anywhere near close enough. Dirrel wasn't a robbery any more than Kessler I.

Froch would need a Burns style screwing to escape Ward, even fighting at home.

Of course if The Contradiction calls for a rematch then it must be so. Get his promoter to make a decent offer or if he wants it bad enough go over and do it in NY or Vegas. Ward beats him all day every day in a dull fight. There are much better fights out there for Froch. As a fan I couldnt care less about seeing Froch v Ward II. Give me Froch against Kovalov or Stevenson over that any time.

Think Froch could take Stevenson but would lose his first ever stoppage of Kovalov.

There was nothing in the first fight to suggest a second would turn out any differently regardless of location, Ward is simply better than Froch.

As for Mayweather it's not hardship fighting in your own country, lets see him rematch Alvarez in Mexico.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:There was nothing in the first fight to suggest a second would turn out any differently regardless of location, Ward is simply better than Froch.

As for Mayweather it's not hardship fighting in your own country, lets see him rematch Alvarez in Mexico.

If he can almost get screwed by a US judge fighting in his backyard he'd be made to go to Mehico!!

Steffan wrote:I think Ward is worried about it being another Dirrell style robbery

It was a close fight. No robbery.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:There was nothing in the first fight to suggest a second would turn out any differently regardless of location, Ward is simply better than Froch.

As for Mayweather it's not hardship fighting in your own country, lets see him rematch Alvarez in Mexico.

If he can almost get screwed by a US judge fighting in his backyard he'd be made to go to Mehico!!

He has to prove he can handle the pressure of an overseas hostile atmosphere just like Ward.