Scotland XV for Autumn Internationals

First topic message reminder :

Right let's get down to business shall we?!

9/11/13
Scotland vs Japan
KO - 2.30pm

17/11/13
Scotland vs South Africa
KO - 3pm

23/11/13
Scotland vs Australia
KO - 6pm

First of all, the schedule for these three matches is super. Unlike last few years, Scotland will play a less formidable team first before two tough matches against SA and Aus. SA are on a roll at the moment and will be a good, stern test for Scotland before Australia. Injuries may be an issue however as we saw in the summer.

If Scotland beat Australia that will make it 3 wins in a row vs the Wallabies which would be a fantastic achievement. But obviously wins over any of these three teams will be great.

Players

Backs M Bennett (Glasgow), C Cusiter (Glasgow), De Luca (Edinburgh), A Dunbar (Glasgow), M Evans (Castres), T Heathcote (Bath), R Jackson (Glasgow), S Lamont (Glasgow), G Laidlaw (Edinburgh), S Maitland (Glasgow), H Pyrgos (Glasgow), M Scott (Edinburgh), T Seymour (Glasgow), D Taylor (Saracens), G Tonks (Edinburgh), T Visser (Edinburgh), D Weir (Glasgow).
Forwards J Barclay (Scarlets), J Beattie (Montpellier), K Brown (Saracens), B Cowan (London Irish), G Cross (Edinburgh), D Denton (Edinburgh), A Dickinson (Edinburgh), R Ford (Edinburgh), C Fusaro (Glasgow), G Gilchrist (Edinburgh) R Grant (Glasgow), J Gray (Glasgow), R Gray (Castres), J Hamilton (Montpellier), R Harley (Glasgow), A Kellock (Glasgow), S Lawson (Newcastle), K Low (London Irish), M Low (Glasgow), P MacArthur (Glasgow), E Murray (Worcester), A Strokosch (Perpignan), T Swinson (Glasgow), J Welsh (Glasgow)

*Sorry for not updating this sooner. My girlfriend and I broke up a few weeks ago after four and a half years, three living together. I've been in a pretty bad place. However, I'm getting better and looking forward to these games so I'll continue to contribute when I can

On scrums - so long as Ford remembers to hook of course

aucklandlaurie wrote:

poddy89 wrote:i can honestly say i have no idea what the scotland leauge team is like, are we in the top 10? would be good and another centre for edinburgh would be really good and an ideal place for some one if there was any leauge stars worth converting

experience is everything so i hope for the same as you that they include some youger players even if just the training squad,

  Scottish rugby could do a lot worse than a player like Danny Brough.

Also, you scottish guys do realise that Luke Douglas who plays second row/lock for scotland, is the brother of Wallaby lock Kane douglas?

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Aw schieze.. Has Jnr Beattie fallen out with another set of coaches ?

Maybe he is going through one his regular, fallen out of love with the game phases.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Aw schieze.. Has Jnr Beattie fallen out with another set of coaches ?

It could be a lot worse. At least Denton is looking dangerous at the moment so we have a good ball carrying no.8 as an alternative.

Got to be honest I don't think I would start Visser anymore, his attempted "tackle" against that kick and chase that let Perpingnan get in for their first try is unforgivable.

Back 3 of Shlong, Seymore and Maitland for me.

He's has his failings radge, which we all know. I still think he's one of the best finishers in the NH though and given that we're still not quite scoring tries easily can we afford not to play him?

RDW_Scotland wrote:He's has his failings radge, which we all know. I still think he's one of the best finishers in the NH though and given that we're still not quite scoring tries easily can we afford not to play him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqCpnLC510g

Can you ever imagine Visser making a tackle like this? Visser's weaknesses are now to big to be covered up by his try scoring record. He really needs to sort his defence out.

I could accept it if he was burned off, side stepped or even flattened. But to Cat out of a tackle like he did against Perp is unforgivable at this level. Especially when you are 6ft 5 and built like a tank.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:He's has his failings radge, which we all know. I still think he's one of the best finishers in the NH though and given that we're still not quite scoring tries easily can we afford not to play him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqCpnLC510g

Can you ever imagine Visser making a tackle like this? Visser's weaknesses are now to big to be covered up by his try scoring record. He really needs to sort his defence out.

I could accept it if he was burned off, side stepped or even flattened. But to Cat out of a tackle like he did against Perp is unforgivable at this level. Especially when you are 6ft 5 and built like a tank.

 at the 606v2 swear word filter! 10 points if you can guess what I was really meaning!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:He's has his failings radge, which we all know. I still think he's one of the best finishers in the NH though and given that we're still not quite scoring tries easily can we afford not to play him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqCpnLC510g

Can you ever imagine Visser making a tackle like this? Visser's weaknesses are now to big to be covered up by his try scoring record. He really needs to sort his defence out.

I could accept it if he was burned off, side stepped or even flattened. But to Cat out of a tackle like he did against Perp is unforgivable at this level. Especially when you are 6ft 5 and built like a tank.

It's the old Shane Williams Problem. Can a steady stream of international tries compensate for defensive weaknesses? With Wales, the answer was clearly 'yes' as no other winger came close to what Shane could do but with Scotland, I don't think it is quite so clear cut. Every time I see Tommy Seymour I am reminded what a top drawer finisher he is. Hmm.

Can't someone give Tim a good slap and get him to sort out his defense?

He is happy to run into people when he has the ball. Why wont he do it when they have the ball??????????????

Also, is the training squad announced yet?

tigertattie wrote:He is happy to run into people when he has the ball.  Why wont he do it when they have the ball??????????????

Because he is a Jedi Knight Bag.

5 newbies in the squd.
- Ickle Gray
- the  
- Fusaro
And then 2 chaps from London Irish that I've never heard of
Kieran Low?
& Blair Cowan?

 5 uncapped guys,

 
Gray Jr
Fusaro
Kieran Low  
Blair Cowan

Anyone know about these guys? Both London Irish backrowers apparently...

Disappointed to learn that Blair Cowan is a back rower. With a name like that I assumed that the SRU's top secret player breeding program had produced its first scrumhalf.

Backs -
Bennett
Cusiter
De Luca
Dunbar
Evans
Heathcote
Jackson
Lamont
Laidlaw
Maitland
Pyrgos
Scott
Seymour
Taylor
Tonks
Visser
Weir

Forwards -
Barclay
Beattie
Brown
Cowan
Cross
Denton
Dickinson
Ford
Fusaro
Gilchrist
Ryan Grant
Jonny Gray
Richie Gray
Hamilton
Harley
Kellock
Lawson
Keiran Low
Moray Low
MacArthur
Murray
Strokosch
Swinson
Welsh

Who on earth are those LI players, and am I right in thinking they are in there over Vernon?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Who on earth are those LI players, and am I right in thinking they are in there over Vernon?

so it would seem. Something of a kick in the balls for Vernon if that is the case.

as for the mystery guys :

Blair Cowan

Keiran Low

clickety click

Fair enough I suppose, the Autumn Tests is a good way to cap these guys, bind them to us and let them play in the crucible of Test match rugby. I just hope we don't get burned the way we did with Shingler.

I feel I should add that this bringing in players who qualify through Grans and Mothers is a bit cheap, expecially when guys like Vernon have come back to try and stake a claim for the Scotland Jersey.

I don't want to take guys who have clearly had aspirations to play for their countries of birth (England and New Zealand) when we have guys who could arguably play just as well (Vernon). He has been playing soem good stuff at Glasgow so I'm a bit surprised by his ommision.

I wonder how much of an influence Cotter has had in this selection.

 

SRU Website wrote:Low, who has previously represented England under-20, told www.scottishrugby.org:  “Committing to Scotland was an easy decision to make. I want to grab the chance to play international rugby.”

To me that seems to be the wrong reason. He might as well have said :

"England think I'm pish, but the Scots are desperate and need to increase their backrow depth... apparently. Anyway here I am playing at Murrayfield, I would rather it was at Twickers but hey... beggers cannot (cannae) be choosers."

I won't be interested in seeing him handed a cap if that is his attitude.

Also they have only played a handful of games between them this season. Strange decision

We're not exactly struggling in the backrow department either. Vernon will be gutted.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote: 

SRU Website wrote:Low, who has previously represented England under-20, told www.scottishrugby.org:  “Committing to Scotland was an easy decision to make. I want to grab the chance to play international rugby.”

To me that seems to be the wrong reason. He might as well have said :

"England think I'm pish, but the Scots are desperate and need to increase their backrow depth... apparently. Anyway here I am playing at Murrayfield, I would rather it was at Twickers but hey... beggers cannot (cannae) be choosers."

I won't be interested in seeing him handed a cap if that is his attitude.

at least he was honest - like DuPreez

I prefer that to the Shingler nonsense of " I have always felt scottish and wanted to play for scotland"

RDW_Scotland wrote:We're not exactly struggling in the backrow department either.  Vernon will be gutted.

I agree - did Vernon kick Johnsons cat?

Does the squad get cut down nearer the Japan game? 41 players is far too big a squad to carry during the 3 weeks.

Normally gets cut down to 28 or so leading up to the games.

Being picked over Vernon is one thing, but if these guys are chosen in a match day squad over Brown, Strokosh, Harley, Beattie, Denton, Fusaro or Barclay then it will be ridiculous.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Normally gets cut down to 28 or so leading up to the games.

Being picked over Vernon is one thing, but if these guys are chosen in a match day squad over Brown, Strokosh, Harley, Beattie, Denton, Fusaro or Barclay then it will be ridiculous.

Fair enough. Would be good to get an A game during the Autum Series, but I suppose the issue of getting appropriate opposition is a stumbling block.

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Normally gets cut down to 28 or so leading up to the games.

Being picked over Vernon is one thing, but if these guys are chosen in a match day squad over Brown, Strokosh, Harley, Beattie, Denton, Fusaro or Barclay then it will be ridiculous.

Fair enough.  Would be good to get an A game during the Autum Series, but I suppose the issue of getting appropriate opposition is a stumbling block.

He could give them a run out against Japan.

I’ve said it on here before – there’s no way we can take Japan lightly and put out a 2nd team.  Maybe 1 or 2 new caps, but certainly not an A team equivalent.

I'm pretty pleased Blair Cowan's been called up to be fair. He's been mentioned a couple of times in previous threads and is a Premiership rugby veteran. This Kieran Low guy is a bit of a surprise, but I can't see him ousting any of our blindsides or second rows and Johnson has explained his reasoning for including them both.

Scott Newlands and Richie Vernon might be a bit miffed, but competition should be welcomed, as should any increase in depth. At least it might mean we keep Barclay at 7, Stroks and Brown at 6 and Denton at 8.

I see Hogg has been completely omitted , I thought they would include him on the off chance he would be fit, but it looks like he's been given a good bit of time to fix his arm which is v sensible.

Also interesting to see Rambo has been asked to train with the squad. They really must rate his chances of becoming an international hooker...

Very slightly off topic, but anyone received their season passes or tickets to the AI's yet?

Got tickets for Japan and SA, the other half booked the tickets for Oz so knowing her supreme talent for booking things online, they are probably winging their way to the wrong address!

The SRU ticketing people started sending them out a week ago, I think, although Royal Mail are seemingly utterly useless at the mo - I've had 2 different letters take 10 days to reach me having been posted first class.

I like the look of the squad, good to get Gray and Bennett involved though I know absolutely zilch about the LI guys. Bit disappointing not to see Scott Newlands given how he's said to have been performing in France. Then again, with Harley, Brown and Stroks we've got plenty of good options at 6.

I wonder if the Italians will throw young Tommasso in for a 5 minute cameo at some point then!

GLove, my tickets arrived on Saturday.

I'm actually fairly happy that Vernon has been ommitted - in my opinion, he just hasn't been playing enough for Glasgow to warrant inclusion. I'm not saying Cowan or Low deserve a call up more than Richie, but there hasn't been a game where I've been genuinely impressed with Vernon. Granted, he hasn't really had a consistent shot at any one back-row position, but them's the breaks.

I guess I just have a problem with the idea that just because he has moved back to Scotland, all the sudden he deserves a call to Murrayfield.

Never heard of nor seen Cowan or Low to be able to comment. It feels odd spending so much time following Scottish rugby not to have even heard of two players in the Scotland squad....

It's a big squad. I'd have selected less players, and Vernon wouldn't have made my smaller squad, so no issues with him being left out.

On the squad proper, I'm very happy for Gray Jnr, Fozzy and Mark of Nazareth. Jonny and Bennett have been consistently impressive this year, have never looked overawed, and whilst they're young, the timing seems right for at least a start against Japan.

Chris Fusaro (or 'Sir' if I ever met him face to face) has, for me, been a symbol of the long-running pro-Edinburgh bias at the SRU - that he wasn't called up two years ago has been a travesty. That being said, I'm delighted for him now - it says a lot that he received an ovation from the Toulon faithful when he was subbed off last week. He's a class act, a Jeffrey-esque SOB to have to play against. Slightly easy to rile up, perhaps, but he'll surprise some people this autumn, I reckon.

For me, the real question in selection is not so much who we pick to play Japan, but rather who we pick against South Africa, and how that affects the Japanese selection. Can we really drop someone like Jackson straight into the 10 shirt against SA without at least a run-out against Japan? How does that affect Weir and Heathcote? Similarly, with Scott our standout centre, do we shunt Dunbar to 13, or start against Japan with a Dunbar-Bennett axis? What about Taylor?

Now I know how it felt to plan D-Day.

We should pick the strongest available team to play Japan. If there are 50/50 calls, then yes go with the younger guy, but apart from that pick the best team.

For me Scott and Laidlaw are the only certainties from Edinburgh to start at all. Denton will have to keep up his current form all the way till November. Fusaro has been magnificent.

Captain?

Brown? Laidlaw? either of those 2 would be my choice, is Brown a little out of favour with Sarries though?

johnston has been saying for a good while about making our pool wider, vernon has been on the scotland scene before and hasnt had enough game time so would be a very unlikely matchday inclusion so the call might have been to let him have his run at gasgow over the autumn series instead of training with scotland to still not get game time. whereas the other two have been brought in and will gain experience from the training and might well get capped for the A team whenever our next year so think it is just making the pool of players wider.

i am a bit suprised that newlands didnt get included though,

but dissapointed to see de luca and evans still here but hopefully they will be cut when the squad is cut down,

not surprised about hogg not being included, could play a big part in our six nations and world cup so why rush him back when wasnt even on great form before the injury, so let him recover get game time with glasgow and if form picks up he will be back in for 6 nations, mean while strengthening a back up 15 for scotland

poddy89 wrote:johnston has been saying for a good while about making our pool wider, vernon has been on the scotland scene before and hasnt had enough game time so would be a very unlikely matchday inclusion so the call might have been to let him have his run at gasgow over the autumn series instead of training with scotland to still not get game time.

good point. the opposite of what happened with Weir last season. On the bench for Glasgow then in the international squad only to sit on the bench. He would have been better served getting some game time

I actually thought that our other long forgotten Hogg (Allister) might have got a call up to a squad that size. He was massive last season, has been pretty good this season and I don't think Johnny Beattie has been setting the heather on fire. 

Perhaps because there isn't a lot of heather in the Languedoc-Roussillon.

poddy89 wrote:
i can honestly say i have no idea what the scotland leauge team is like, are we in the top 10? would be good and another centre for edinburgh would be really good and an ideal place for some one if there was any leauge stars worth converting

experience is everything so i hope for the same as you that they include some youger players even if just the training squad,



Scottish rugby could do a lot worse than a player like Danny Brough.

had a look at some highlights and seems to be impressive with ball in hand, great attack and awareness, whats he like in defence/contact? as highlights didnt really show that,

would be the first time any went from leauge to union in a scottish set up i reckon, cound be very good for edinburgh if he did want to switch

Re: Fusaro if we have a form and fit openside then I'd far rather see said openside playing than Brown shunted to 7 to play alongside Strokosch at 6, or Brown shunted to 8 (although that said a back row of Strokosch, Fusaro and Brown would be fairly handy at the breakdown).

From Edinburgh Denton, Laidlaw, Scott and Visser will be sure to start in my opinion assuming they are fit. Ford will feature in the matchday squad, although could be relegated to the bench for MacArthur. I think that'll be it.

ok turns out i dont know how to add my comment to someone elses, i copied and pasted which obviously didnt work:doh: 

poddy89 wrote:ok turns out i dont know how to add my comment to someone elses, i copied and pasted which  obviously didnt work:doh: 

Click 'quote' and add your text below the original text you are quoting, i.e. after the [/quote] text

what to do with visser! does he score trys out of nothing enough to justify himself?

its tough because i can see him doing well against japan

think he isn't up to facing the physical boks

but could fit right in against aus, especially if it breaks up

id suggest a bench player so could be an impact sub but dont suppose that would be handy if you were trying to grind out a tight win,

very tough call and all the mixed opinions are justified

RDW_Scotland wrote:

poddy89 wrote:ok turns out i dont know how to add my comment to someone elses, i copied and pasted which  obviously didnt work:doh: 

Click 'quote' and add your text below the original text you are quoting, i.e. after the

text[/quote]
all seems so simple now  

poddy89 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

poddy89 wrote:ok turns out i dont know how to add my comment to someone elses, i copied and pasted which  obviously didnt work:doh: 

Click 'quote' and add your text below the original text you are quoting, i.e. after the text

all seems so simple now  

Close enough!

Interesting couple of lines in the BBC's coverage of the squad announcement: "Johnson, who has surprisingly left out the Glasgow flanker Tyrone Holmes after his man-of-the-match performance in the Heineken Cup last Sunday, said he has had no contact from fly-half Tommaso Allan despite calling him on Monday morning." So, its seems some people expected Holmes to make the cut (I'm not sure I'd agree) and young Tommy Allan looks to have made his choice.

For Edinburgh Visser is a no brainer, we need him and he's better than Lee Jones.

I think it's a more legitimate question for Scotland, particularly if Hogg is fit at 15 and Maitland is at 14, because then you have Sean Lamont and Tommy Seymour both competing for the jersey with Visser.

Having endured decades of complete rubbish on the wings for Scotland, it's a nice problem to have. Personally I'd pick Visser at 11 every time - his attacking capabilities are worth the odd defensive lapse in my view - even at international level. Sean Lamont just doesn't have the gas, and whilst I'm a huge fan of Seymour, with Maitland likely to play 15 in the AIs in Hogg's absence, I think Seymour will play at 14 in any case, leaving 11 open for Visser.

The other possible wing option is Duncan Taylor, who although playing 12 very well for Sarries at the moment, can also play on the wing as he has done previously. I think Taylor would be a good alternative to having Lamont on the bench; one for the future and covers both centre slots and wing.

Didn't realise Holmes was Scots qualified. Hasn't he only played two games this season....

Feels too early for a Scotland call-up, although these days with the likes of Shingler, Cowan and Low getting call-ups you never know.

I'm starting to feel a little neglected not having been called-up. Having lived in England for almost half my life they'd better snap me up before I join the dark side.....

Irish fan here....

Cowan is more than ready for international rugby. As a kiwi his skills are obviously good, but it his workrate and ability at the breakdown that has impressed. He isn't the most physical carrier, but due to his excellent footwork and speed off the mark can make as many metres as bigger player. I think you will be pleasantly surprised...

Low is surely in on potential. I would like him to focus on being a lock, but he is quick and fit enough to play at 6. Brian Smith is a big fan of his. Don't read too much into his lack of appearances - he has been non-stop injured since he joined the Irish set up four years ago. When fit it looks to me like he would be in Brian's first choice side. He is a little raw in terms of handling ability and ball retention at the breakdown, but I think he has international potential. I'd be surprised, however if he made the Scotland 23 immediately.