Scotland XV for Autumn Internationals

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Right let's get down to business shall we?!

9/11/13
Scotland vs Japan
KO - 2.30pm

17/11/13
Scotland vs South Africa
KO - 3pm

23/11/13
Scotland vs Australia
KO - 6pm

First of all, the schedule for these three matches is super. Unlike last few years, Scotland will play a less formidable team first before two tough matches against SA and Aus. SA are on a roll at the moment and will be a good, stern test for Scotland before Australia. Injuries may be an issue however as we saw in the summer.

If Scotland beat Australia that will make it 3 wins in a row vs the Wallabies which would be a fantastic achievement. But obviously wins over any of these three teams will be great.

Players

Backs M Bennett (Glasgow), C Cusiter (Glasgow), De Luca (Edinburgh), A Dunbar (Glasgow), M Evans (Castres), T Heathcote (Bath), R Jackson (Glasgow), S Lamont (Glasgow), G Laidlaw (Edinburgh), S Maitland (Glasgow), H Pyrgos (Glasgow), M Scott (Edinburgh), T Seymour (Glasgow), D Taylor (Saracens), G Tonks (Edinburgh), T Visser (Edinburgh), D Weir (Glasgow).
Forwards J Barclay (Scarlets), J Beattie (Montpellier), K Brown (Saracens), B Cowan (London Irish), G Cross (Edinburgh), D Denton (Edinburgh), A Dickinson (Edinburgh), R Ford (Edinburgh), C Fusaro (Glasgow), G Gilchrist (Edinburgh) R Grant (Glasgow), J Gray (Glasgow), R Gray (Castres), J Hamilton (Montpellier), R Harley (Glasgow), A Kellock (Glasgow), S Lawson (Newcastle), K Low (London Irish), M Low (Glasgow), P MacArthur (Glasgow), E Murray (Worcester), A Strokosch (Perpignan), T Swinson (Glasgow), J Welsh (Glasgow)

*Sorry for not updating this sooner. My girlfriend and I broke up a few weeks ago after four and a half years, three living together. I've been in a pretty bad place. However, I'm getting better and looking forward to these games so I'll continue to contribute when I can

reallybored wrote:Suspect that it'll be Scott & De Luca considering they were both withheld from Edinburgh and Bennett played.

Shame.

RB, if that is the case, and NDL lines up alongside Matt Scott (who is a 12 btw), then I will be extremely disappointed - NDL has had his chance, actually many of them, and his time has gone, simple as. Step forward whose time has come, and just in time to get a decent run of games under his belt in time for the next RWC

jimbopip wrote:

George Carlin wrote:True - I think that Schiz is hoping if he hangs around long enough at Scotstoun, he'll get handed a 13 shirt and told to get on with it.

George, while I am second to none in my assessment of Schiz as a fine figure of a man I'm not sure he deserves the 13 shirt for "hanging around long enough". This isn't Edinburgh! No. If he'd been playing regularly, had garnered experience of playing abroad, say Essex, and didn't have a fixture this weekend.. Ah but where would we find such a man?

You're a rarety to be sure, Jimbo. I always said so.

jimbopip wrote:

George Carlin wrote:True - I think that Schiz is hoping if he hangs around long enough at Scotstoun, he'll get handed a 13 shirt and told to get on with it.

George, while I am second to none in my assessment of Schiz as a fine figure of a man I'm not sure he deserves the 13 shirt for "hanging around long enough". This isn't Edinburgh! No. If he'd been playing regularly, had garnered experience of playing abroad, say Essex, and didn't have a fixture this weekend.. Ah but where would we find such a man?

Ouch! Harsh but fair....

Come on SJ, announce that team selection, otherwise I'll have to do some work this afternoon!

funnyExiledScot wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

George Carlin wrote:True - I think that Schiz is hoping if he hangs around long enough at Scotstoun, he'll get handed a 13 shirt and told to get on with it.

George, while I am second to none in my assessment of Schiz as a fine figure of a man I'm not sure he deserves the 13 shirt for "hanging around long enough". This isn't Edinburgh! No. If he'd been playing regularly, had garnered experience of playing abroad, say Essex, and didn't have a fixture this weekend.. Ah but where would we find such a man?

Ouch! Harsh but fair....

Come on SJ, announce that team selection, otherwise I'll have to do some work this afternoon!

The selection is being released at 11.30ish.

Whilst we're waiting for the team, there's an interesting interview with Lamont in the Scotsman.
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/sean-lamont-targets-2015-world-cup-spot-1-3173568
-He's apparently targeting the world cup, where he'll be 34.
-Wants to play for Glasgow until he's at least 38!
-And bizarrely he claims he's the second fastest player in the Glasgow squad???

I notice there are some journalists on Twitter still going on about the alleged story involving Glasgow/Scotland players and claiming that numerous newspaper websites etc are carrying the story but I've had a look around and can't find anything about it anywhere. Very strange.

My calls for Saturday:

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Welsh
4. Swinson
5. Hamilton
6. Strokosch
7. Fusaro
8. Denton

9. Laidlaw (c)
10. Jackson
11. Lamont
12. Scott
13. Bennett
14. Seymour
15. Maitland

16. Dickinson
17. MacArthur
18. Murray
19. Kellock
20. Harley
21. Custer
22. Weir
23. Taylor

There will be changes for the Boks, but we have to start capping some of the youngsters, and giving more exposure to others, with more established players returning next week - Brown to return next week, for example.

Scotsman article suggest that it will be Scott and De Luca in the Centres. They are usually on the money when "predicting" the team, on the morning of a team release.

MacKnocked-on wrote:I notice there are some journalists on Twitter still going on about the alleged story involving Glasgow/Scotland players and claiming that numerous newspaper websites etc are carrying the story but I've had a look around and can't find anything about it anywhere. Very strange.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/scotland-rugby-players-in-assault-inquiry-1-3169317

[quote="Dorothy_Mantooth"]

MacKnocked-on wrote:I notice there are some journalists on Twitter still going on about the alleged story involving Glasgow/Scotland players and claiming that numerous newspaper websites etc are carrying the story but I've had a look around and can't find anything about it anywhere. Very strange.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/scotland-rugby-players-in-assault-inquiry-1-3169317

Thanks, I had seen this one article but not the supposed blanket coverage that the journalist on Twitter is claiming.

GLove39 wrote:Whilst we're waiting for the team, there's an interesting interview with Lamont in the Scotsman.
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/sean-lamont-targets-2015-world-cup-spot-1-3173568
-He's apparently targeting the world cup, where he'll be 34.
-Wants to play for Glasgow until he's at least 38!
-And bizarrely he claims he's the second fastest player in the Glasgow squad???

Fastest players in the Glasgow squad.

1. Richie Vernon
2. Sean Lamont
3. Sean Maitland
4. DTH
5. Stuart Hogg

I'm sure that's right.

MacKnocked-on wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:I notice there are some journalists on Twitter still going on about the alleged story involving Glasgow/Scotland players and claiming that numerous newspaper websites etc are carrying the story but I've had a look around and can't find anything about it anywhere. Very strange.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/scotland-rugby-players-in-assault-inquiry-1-3169317

Thanks, I had seen this one article but not the supposed blanket coverage that the journalist on Twitter is claiming.

Not seen it anywhere else in the print media.

Same here. I had a dig and only the Scotsman seems to be running it.

Hopefully the named players were simply bystanders rather than involved in the attack/fight (whatever it was).

Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Same here. I had a dig and only the Scotsman seems to be running it.

Hopefully the named players were simply bystanders rather than involved in the attack/fight (whatever it was).

Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

It's the claims being made on Twitter about mass coverage across the media that I find strange, I must be living in a parallel universe.

Will be disappointed if it's De Luca, what will we learn from that selection.

Wonder if injuries to Visser & Hogg meant Johnson wanted more experience in the midfield.

reallybored wrote:Will be disappointed if it's De Luca, what will we learn from that selection.

To be honest I don't really buy into the whole "learning" argument. I'd pick Bennett because I think he deserves to play based on his performances this season, albeit that it's a close call.

We do need to be winning these games first and foremost, so I certainly don't suggest we experiment just for the sake of learning.

The reason this selection is exciting is because finally we have some good young players actually in the frame based on merit, rather than the feeling in ASBO's big toe. Players like Duncan Taylor, Chris Fusaro and Mark Bennett should be in and around the squad, whether the WC was tomorrow, next week or in 2015. That's why this one is particularly interesting.

Team announced, no , instead it's De Luca at 13...

Grant - Ford - Murray
Swinson - Kellock
Stroks - Denton - Brown (c)
Laidlaw - Jackson
SLamont - Scott - NDL - Seymour
Maitland

Great to see Tommy Seymour adding to his caps- Stand Up For The Scottish Ulster Man!

MacArthur - Dickinson - Cross - Gray snr - Barclay - Pyrgos - Weir - Taylor

Several mistakes in that selection, I'm afraid => B- for Scott Johnston

1. Time to let Euan Murray go - poor form for Wuss, won't be playing vs SA
2. Kellock's intl days should be behind him
3. Unbalanced backrow
4. NdL

I'm not entirely enthused by that team. The backrow is as unbalanced as it was during the 6N, Kellock doesn't add much beyond the lineout, and Cross has done little to merit even a place in the bench.

We should beat Japan with something to spare, but we've missed an opportunity to bring in a few new faces.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Same here. I had a dig and only the Scotsman seems to be running it.

Hopefully the named players were simply bystanders rather than involved in the attack/fight (whatever it was).

Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

From my source at Edinburgh 3 of them were bystanders but one is in serious trouble. The one in serious trouble is the one who is out injured just now and not currently involved with Scotland or Scotland 7s!

GLove39 wrote:Team announced, no , instead it's De Luca at 13...

I'm a bit "meh" with this non story. Taylor is going to get a big chance from the Bench and I'll be very surprised if the  doesn't get a crack at some point in the Autumn.

Greater concern:

"Ruck Inspector" Kellock, if anyone has been found wanting at international level it is him, not NDL. Especially when you consider how well Gray snr and jnr have been paying.

Also not sure about Brown at 7 despite being excellent in the 6N. Barclay has been superb for the Scarlets and I would have had him start on the blind side. Brown won't let us down though. He never does.

Murray, haven't seen enough to be upset by his selection, but Cross hasn't been able to shift Nel at Edinburgh. Murray's start is logical.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

reallybored wrote:Will be disappointed if it's De Luca, what will we learn from that selection.

To be honest I don't really buy into the whole "learning" argument. I'd pick Bennett because I think he deserves to play based on his performances this season, albeit that it's a close call.

We do need to be winning these games first and foremost, so I certainly don't suggest we experiment just for the sake of learning.

The reason this selection is exciting is because finally we have some good young players actually in the frame based on merit, rather than the feeling in ASBO's big toe. Players like Duncan Taylor, Chris Fusaro and Mark Bennett should be in and around the squad, whether the WC was tomorrow, next week or in 2015. That's why this one is particularly interesting.

Trust me, we'd get a better XXIII selection if we did follow even the hairs on my big toe  

Not overly impressed with this team. Why pick Murray when he isn't going to be playing against South Africa. Strange decision to have Kellock in there as well when he probably won't play against South Africa either.
Back Row should have had a genuine openside be it either Barclay or Fusaro.
Half backs are fine and so are the back 3 but this game would have gone with Bennett in the centre as he needs to be tested to see if he is ready yet.

Bench isn't too bad however would have gone Cusiter over Pyrgos.

They should have gone for pretty much the full strength team so they could then build and gel as a team for the South Africa test but there will be a few players who are going to come into the South Africa game with no game time for a couple weeks.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Several mistakes in that selection, I'm afraid => B- for Scott Johnston

1. Time to let Euan Murray go - poor form for Wuss, won't be playing vs SA
2. Kellock's intl days should be behind him
3. Unbalanced backrow
4. NdL

I entirely agree on all fronts. Whilst there are no "Hines at 6" complete howlers, I do think those 4 criticisms above are correct.

On the positive side, Matt Scott is at 12......

 

Very conservative selection there. Kellock starting is a big surprise!

Kellock does bring things to the team (set piece solidity, leadership... Intimate knowledge of ruck composition...), but none of these are really needed against Japan . What we do need (bulk, scrummaging power, youth), he doesn't have.

I'd still include him in my squad, but I'd be using him against Australia when we can lose a bit of power in the scrum in order to dominate at the line out, particularly if we're playing a territory game.

I can see what SJ is doing, but it's bot something I'd have done!

The bench is good though - plenty mobility in the forwards (Gray and Barclay will really add something coming on for Kellock and Strokosch) and it's good to see Weir back and having Duncan Taylor on the bench.

It's probably our strongest scrummaging front row, so we ought to gain some ground in the scrum, and 4-8 are all good lineout options so provided we get "good Ford" rather than "bad Ford" the lineout should run well.

If we look back to Johnsons comments about this series being some players "Last chance" then this selection makes sense.

If the players renowned for being inconsistent and or cr*p in a Scotland can produce a good performance against a team like Japan then they become useful squad players with the world cup in mind - capped players who can do a job if leading players are injured and no more.

If however they don't perform against a team like Japan then we know for certain they will never produce th goods for Scotland and can be ditched. I reckon that Johnson will through players like Bennett and Gray Jr against SA- typical OZ attitude, if they can play against the best then they are ready, dont need to ease them in against Japan

De Luca has a worse try record than Strokosch at International level.

Kellock is an interesting selection, wonder what the thinking is. Personally think he's lucky to be in Glasgow team ahead of Swinson & Gray.

Disappointed that Barclay hasn't been selected.

Tramptastic wrote:I reckon that Johnson will throw players like Bennett and Gray Jr against SA- typical OZ attitude, if they can play against the best then they are ready, dont need to ease them in against Japan

I would be stunned if Gray Jr plays against South Africa. It would be an utterly ridiculous decision to play him in that game ahead of Gray, Swinson and Hamilton.

Back in the 6N I think was the time to test out MacArthur. He was playing some really good stuff whilst Ford was really struggling. Can't help think a baby in the house might have been a problem for Ford in the Spring.

He has looked pretty devestating for Edinburgh so far this year though, accurate in the lineout and destructive in the loose. He just needs to hook the ball at scrum time. I'm interested to see how Grant, Ford and Murray get on as a unit in the Scrum. That's a powerful front row by any standards.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:I reckon that Johnson will throw players like Bennett and Gray Jr against SA- typical OZ attitude, if they can play against the best then they are ready, dont need to ease them in against Japan

I would be stunned if Gray Jr plays against South Africa. It would be an utterly ridiculous decision to play him in that game ahead of Gray, Swinson and Hamilton.

Gray Jnr on the bench? orrrr he throws him in against Australia - Hamilton not needed for Oz probably, not his kind of game! Need athleticism

Hello, I have been following this forum for a while and thought it was about time I joined in. As pretty much a lifelong Scottish exile it has been a great source of info to me about the Scottish game, which I have followed for better or worse pretty much all my life.

Along with many others it seems, the selection of Al Kellock, who despite his many admirable qualities, has never really convinced as an international and it is hard to really see him featuring in 2015, is the big surprise for me. The other contentious ones, Murray, Strokosch/Brown and De Luca all have a case of sorts. I guess they have been told what they have to do!

Anyway the team is what it is and I will be right behind it as always

Welcome to the mad house BigGee!

Most important question - Edinburgh or Glasgow??

For anyone who hasn't seen the full team yet and doesn't understand what we're wittering about:
 
15 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors) 5 caps, 1 try, 5 points
14 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps
13 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby) 38 caps, 1 try, 5 points
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) 15 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
11 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) 79 caps, 11 tries, 55 points
10 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) 21 caps, 3 conversions, 2 penalties, 2 drop-goals, 18 points
09 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) 21 caps, 2 tries, 21 conversions, 47 penalties, 193 points
 
01 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors), 10 caps
02 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) 68 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
03 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors) 56 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
04 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps
05 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors) 55 caps, 1 try, 5 points
06 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) 35 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
07 Kelly Brown (Saracens) 58 caps, 4 tries, 20 points CAPTAIN
08 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) 14 caps
 
Substitutes
 
16 Pat MacArthur (Glasgow Warriors) 1 cap
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) 27 caps, 1 try, 5 points
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby) 22 caps, 1 try, 5 points
19 Richie Gray (Castres) 31 caps, 1 try, 5 points
20 John Barclay (Scarlets) 41 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) 9 caps, 1 try, 5 points
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) 5 caps, 1 conversion, 2 points
23 Duncan Taylor (Saracens) 3 caps
 
I actually don't mind this team, although there are some *interesting* selections.
 
If we're going to play the Ruck Inspector against anyone, it should be Japan. I don't want him being thrown around like a doggy chew toy against the Springboks. I think that we'll see Swinson and one of the Grays start then. What surprises me is that Barclay is preferred to Fozzy but then again Johnson will be seeing how they are all training.
 
Henners instead of Cus is also an interesting one. I am assuming that if Laidlaw comes off, then SJ wants to replace one goal kicker with another.
 
The biggest mistake would have been to leave out Denton and I'm glad this hasn't happened.

Well I was born in Dumbarton and my dad is from Govan if that gives you any clues!

One of the better parts of being an exile however is that you are fairly free to support any Scottish side at any time particularly when they are doing well. You have to take it when it comes at the end of the day!

In terms of using this match to look at young players and see what they might be able to do then this selection is a bit of a non event.
However, in terms of asking older players if they still want to have an international future...
Ford, Murray, Kellock, NDL all need to step up to the mark and show us why they should be there.
All that aside, I cannot find a reason for the make up of the back row. Barclay, Fozzie, Rennie and Kellybrows list them in order of preference purely in terms of being a good no7 and you'll not find too much agreement about numbers 1-3 but I'm fairly certain that there will be a consensus on who's number 4 in that list.
Still we should be too strong for Japan.

BigGee wrote:Well I was born in Dumbarton and my dad is from Govan if that gives you any clues!

One of the better parts of being an exile however is that you are fairly free to support any Scottish side at any time particularly when they are doing well. You have to take it when it comes at the end of the day!

I couldn't agree more! I'm an Edinburgh boy living in London. All for one and one for all etc.

George Carlin wrote:
 
Henners instead of Cus is also an interesting one. I am assuming that if Laidlaw comes off, then SJ wants to replace one goal kicker with another.
 

I don't think Cusiter is up to speed yet. He has still only played a handful of games in the last year. Give him a bit more time to see if he can get back to the player he used to be. Sam H-C and Kennedy are coming up fast on the rails at Edinburgh and may well be the future at scrum half anyway

funnyExiledScot wrote:

GLove39 wrote:Whilst we're waiting for the team, there's an interesting interview with Lamont in the Scotsman.
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/sean-lamont-targets-2015-world-cup-spot-1-3173568
-He's apparently targeting the world cup, where he'll be 34.
-Wants to play for Glasgow until he's at least 38!
-And bizarrely he claims he's the second fastest player in the Glasgow squad???

Fastest players in the Glasgow squad.

1. Richie Vernon
2. Sean Lamont
3. Sean Maitland
4. DTH
5. Stuart Hogg

I'm sure that's right.

I would have thought Tommy Seymour would have been in that list. He has a pb of about 10.75 for the 100m. Also would have thought Mark Bennett would have been up on that list as he is pretty rapid.

George Carlin wrote:For anyone who hasn't seen the full team yet and doesn't understand what we're wittering about:
 
10 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) 21 caps, 3 conversions, 2 penalties, 2 drop-goals, 18 points

I know wee Greig kicks the goals but that's has to be the lowest points tally of any international fly half after 21 caps!

Kelly Brown's got 2 more than him!

Captain_Sensible wrote:

BigGee wrote:Well I was born in Dumbarton and my dad is from Govan if that gives you any clues!

One of the better parts of being an exile however is that you are fairly free to support any Scottish side at any time particularly when they are doing well. You have to take it when it comes at the end of the day!

I couldn't agree more! I'm an Edinburgh boy living in London. All for one and one for all etc.

Absolutely with the cherry picking. I'm an Ayrshire boy who lived in London for 12 years and who now lives in the UAE.
 
And I can get misty eyed without paying any income tax. Bonus.

George Carlin wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:

BigGee wrote:Well I was born in Dumbarton and my dad is from Govan if that gives you any clues!

One of the better parts of being an exile however is that you are fairly free to support any Scottish side at any time particularly when they are doing well. You have to take it when it comes at the end of the day!

I couldn't agree more! I'm an Edinburgh boy living in London. All for one and one for all etc.

Absolutely with the cherry picking. I'm an Ayrshire boy who lived in London for 12 years and who now lives in the UAE.
 
And I can get misty eyed without paying any income tax. Bonus.

The UAE? I'm out in Dubai for a conference in April next year. Not looking forward to the heat...

The 'experts' on Facebook are debating the team selection...
"should have chosen Dunbar & Barrett instead".  
Who's Barrett?

Majestic83 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Same here. I had a dig and only the Scotsman seems to be running it.

Hopefully the named players were simply bystanders rather than involved in the attack/fight (whatever it was).

Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

From my source at Edinburgh 3 of them were bystanders but one is in serious trouble. The one in serious trouble is the one who is out injured just now and not currently involved with Scotland or Scotland 7s!

Thanks for the further info

BigGee wrote:

George Carlin wrote:
 
Henners instead of Cus is also an interesting one. I am assuming that if Laidlaw comes off, then SJ wants to replace one goal kicker with another.
 

I don't think Cusiter is up to speed yet. He has still only played a handful of games in the last year. Give him a bit more time to see if he can get back to the player he used to be. Sam H-C and Kennedy are coming up fast on the rails at Edinburgh and may well be the future at scrum half anyway

Not to mention Ali Price and Scott Steele too

Captain_Sensible wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:

BigGee wrote:Well I was born in Dumbarton and my dad is from Govan if that gives you any clues!

One of the better parts of being an exile however is that you are fairly free to support any Scottish side at any time particularly when they are doing well. You have to take it when it comes at the end of the day!

I couldn't agree more! I'm an Edinburgh boy living in London. All for one and one for all etc.

Absolutely with the cherry picking. I'm an Ayrshire boy who lived in London for 12 years and who now lives in the UAE.
 
And I can get misty eyed without paying any income tax. Bonus.

The UAE? I'm out in Dubai for a conference in April next year. Not looking forward to the heat...

April? Piece of p!ss. It doesn't get to 50 centigrade until July.
 
And you're going to Dubai, not Abu Dhabi (where I live). So you'll be too hammered to even notice the temperature.