Welsh Squad for Autumn Tests?

First topic message reminder :

I'm not 100% sure of how many players are allowed in the team. I think it's about 35 though. So whilst considering injuries and and choosing players on form, this is what i think the team should be:

Props:
Gethin Jenkins
Paul James
Rhys Gill
Adam Jones
Samson Lee
Scott Andrews

Hookers:
Hibbard
Ken Owens
Matthew Rees

Locks:
Alyn Wyn Jones
Ian Evans
Bradley Davies
Andrew Coombs

Flankers:
Dan Lydiate
Sam Warburton
Justin Tipuric
Ryan Jones
Aaron Shingler

Number 8:
Toby Falateu
Morgan Allen

Scrum Half:
Mike Phillips
Richie Rees
Gareth Davies

Outside Half:
Dan Biggar
Rhys Priestland
Rhys Patchell

Centres:
Johnathan Davies
Ashley Beck
Scott Williams
Andrew Bishop

Wings:
George North
Alex Cuthbert
Eli Walker

Fullback:
Leigh Halpfenny
Liam Williams

Not Available (so far):
Craig Mitchell
Jamie Roberts

I think players like Morgan Allen, Andrew Bishop, Rhys Gill and Samson Lee all deserve at least a start against Tonga.
Rhys has been sharing the one jersey with Vunipolo but i have watched him once and he was solid, I hear he has been part of a strong Saracens scrum though. Plus Ryan Bevington hasn't really done much for the Ospreys so far this season.
8 for me with Wales is a big worry at the moment because with Toby injured and Ryan seen ore a a versatile substitute, however that's still only 1 cover for our starting 8. Morgan is young, fresh, strong and a great talents who is in form with the Ospreys. We need to start bringing youny 8's like Allen and Baker into the set up for the future. I mean Ryan isn't going to last much longer, we need someone know to start to challenge Toby and be a descent back up.
Bishop - is one of the most under rated players in Britain. Such a strong defender, on par with Barett in my eyes. A great player who is safe and has that experience.
Samson Lee -Been the best tightheads out of all the regions so far this season  (Adam has only just come back). A strong scrummager and would give the Tongan a good run for their money. Surly the successor for Adam when he retires. Obviously Adam to start against South Africa, Argentina and Australia but would rather Scott on the bench for those games. As much as i want Samson to shine NOW, he still needs to be bled into the set up first. SO one appearance against Tonga would be great.
Lastly, Patchell like Samson is still young and needs small steps into the set up. I think one appearance of the bench for Tonga would be nice for him. However we all know what can happen when we rush a young 10 into the spotlight. So even though i want him in the team for the experience, i hope were not forced to play him too much this Autumn.

bedfordwelsh wrote:We have more cover in the 2nd row now than I can ever really remember, we have AWJ, Evans, Davies, Coombs. Charteris  all of whom are proven now and wouldn't let us down then we have the likes of king, Pears and Ball coming through and the ;in case of emergency options' in R Jones and Shingler.

I am concerned with Evans currently being out of favour at the Os but on flip side Davies seems to be finding good form and getting a bit of his dog back.

I posted a link to the mails interview with Evans regarding him not making the Ospreys team. He is also injured at the moment.

It sounds like they are just giving him a kick up the backside and bit of time to get form. Gatlamd may view it all differently.

I guess a kick up the arris doesn't hurt now and again and like has been said bringing a few young guns in to stir it up a bit cant hurt either

Not at all. We have the luxury of talented youngsters to add something fresh to the squad and we should definitely use them.


I was thinking another outside bet might be the inclusion of Owen Williams if Tigers...?

Look I see it like this, as long as Alyn Wyn is fit he gets around enough work around the pitch for two flankers.
Alyn Wyn is in fine form as well, still want to know what happened with Evans but at the moment I would say it's Bradley and Alyn Wyn, both big lumps who will bring that physicality to the South Africans. I bet Gatland will stick with Alyn and Ian.

I have always been an Evans fan but for me he disappointed in Oz, if (surprised if not) he's selected today then I would be happy fo him and AWJ to continue.

We have seen time and time again how much players lift their game when in the Welsh set up.

squad announced at one . gats will select the biggest guys and Awj certainly up there . too be honest hes more undroppable ( if that's not a word then it should be ) then warburton so he should be made captain , then at least we won't be stuck with a seven whom is injury prone and non consistent form .

bedfordwelsh wrote:

munkian wrote:Its Biggar's shirt surely ?

I would start with him after all he's the man in possesion as they say but Priestland has been looking good of late and its likely to be Williams and Davies in the centre so possible Priestland could get nod.

Priestland for me, no doubt about it. Let's be honest, as much as he's worked on his all-round game (and even managed to score a try on the weekend), Dan Biggar's nowhere near the natural footballer Priestland is. Priestland plays heads-up rugby whereas Biggar puts his head up only to see where the touchline is for his next kick. And like Bedford says, with Scott Williams and JD2 the likely centre pairing, it really makes no sense to break up the partnership and understanding the three of them are showing for the Scarlets. And with Mike Phillips's latest misdemeanour, who's to say Rhodri Williams won't feature against the 'Boks? Lloyd Williams might have more experience at senior level, but I'd say Rhodri Williams is just plain better (as are Gareth Davies and Jonny Evans, but that's another matter). Lloyd would get munched by the 'Boks.

just like to say get well soon to Matthew rees . hope you get back to rugby soon as possible .

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:just like to say   get well soon to Matthew rees . hope you get back to rugby soon as possible .

+1 to that. Fingers crossed it is nothing too serious and he can get back to good health soon.

Just read another thread and know what you're on about now. +1 from me, too.

I really hope that Gatland gives the two young Blues centres a chance, even if they just get the exposure of being in the international setup, roomer would have it that Gatland will be fielding a young side against Tonga, I feel that he could get caught out if he does, also I have heard that he is naming a 36 man squad, which is quite a big squad for him, he usually takes a little less people than this.

At least ranking points don't really count for much this autumn, Dowlais.

LordDowlais wrote:I really hope that Gatland gives the two young Blues centres a chance, even if they just get the exposure of being in the international setup, roomer would have it that Gatland will be fielding a young side against Tonga, I feel that he could get caught out if he does, also I have heard that he is naming a 36 man squad, which is quite a big squad for him, he usually takes a little less people than this.

We did that against Fiji a few years ago and just snuck the draw. But that said, maybe that helps ground players, letting them know that they need to give it their all against the minnows as well as the big teams.

I've said it before, but I'd rather we experimented / blooded new players now than during the Six Nations.

Any kids playing against Tonga will get blooded. 

couple minutes and we ll find out the squad . excited  

WALES SQUAD 2013 DOVE MEN SERIES:

Forwards: Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Paul James (Bath), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Ian Evans (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Cardiff Blues), Andrew Coombs (Dragons), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (CAPT - Cardiff Blues), Toby Faletau (Dragons), Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro)

Backs: Rhodri Williams (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Bayonne), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Patchell (Cardiff Blues), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Jon Davies (Scarlets), Ashley Beck (Ospreys), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Owen Williams (Cardiff Blues), James Hook (Perpignan), George North (Northampton Saints), Eli Walker (Ospreys), Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

A larger squad than I was expecting, so the Tonga game may see some major rotation. Obviously Cuthbert's injury is bad enough to keep him out of the squad, he's the only notable exception. Not sure on the need for 4 outside halves though. I would have maybe left Patchell to train with the Blues, great prospect but has had a tricky start to the season from what I've seen.

No Alex Cuthbert ?

WRU website say's Cuthbert was not considered due to injury. Liam Williams or Walker have got a great opportunity to get more game time against some of the big boys. Williams was very impressive against the All Black's last year, I would lean towards him on the wing.

Hooky can cover plenty of positions, great to see him back in there.

I would've thought Navidi, Cudd or Lewis Evans may have got a chance - guess we are blessed with back row players.

No Samson Lee is a surprise

chris_501 wrote:A larger squad than I was expecting, so the Tonga game may see some major rotation.

Lets not hope too muchg rotation as we have seen whats happened in the past when we have done that.

Surprised no Lewis Evans or Aaron Shingler but pleased for the young guys that have been included. For me I would have Sc Williams in for Roberts and Li Williams in for Cuthbert.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

chris_501 wrote:A larger squad than I was expecting, so the Tonga game may see some major rotation.

Lets not hope too muchg rotation as we have seen whats happened in the past when we have done that.

Surprised no Lewis Evans or Aaron Shingler but pleased for the young guys that have been included.  For me I would have Sc Williams in for Roberts and Li Williams in for Cuthbert.

I had forgotten about Shingler, I'm surprised at that too, I think he's on better form than Ryan Jones at the moment.

I'm disappointed there are so few Dragons in the squad, but then I don't think there are many cases where a Dragons player has missed out to another player who isn't as good. Lewis Evans was a shout, but all the back rowers picked are quality, so fair enough. (Although Ryan Jones might be a bit long in the tooth?) Maybe Jason Tovey could have been selected ahead of Rhys Patchell (potentially a great player, but still very green) and there's a good two or three scrum halves I'd select ahead of Lloyd Williams, but there you go. It means we're less disrupted than others over the next few weeks!

chris,

Both are currently on better form than R Jones but he is proven quality at this level and another leader etc etc.

Little bit disaapointed that no Rhys Gill either as I really don't rate Bevington.

chris_501 wrote:WRU website say's Cuthbert was not considered due to injury. Liam Williams or Walker have got a great opportunity to get more game time against some of the big boys. Williams was very impressive against the All Black's last year, I would lean towards him on the wing.

I would put Halfpenny on the wing and have Liam Williams as fullback, goal kicking aside, Liam Williams is a far superior fullback to Halfpenny.

Some positions seem pretty over stocked and some very understocked. The only out and out blindside in there is Lydiate, granted Ryan Jones, Warburton and Coombs can cover, but they are not regular starters in that position. The same can be said for the wings. North and Walker are the only real wingers in there, Liam Williams is wasted on the wing, and I really doubt that Halfpenny is going to get moved there.

I guess the 'fit' 23 picks itself more or less, and the rest are just in there for trainning fodder and tackle back duties.

It depends what you want from your fullback, Dowlais. For what it's worth, I agree with you.

bedfordwelsh wrote:chris,

Both are currently on better form than R Jones but he is proven quality at this level and another leader etc etc.

Little bit disaapointed that no Rhys Gill either as I really don't rate Bevington.

Don't get me wrong, I'm one of Ryan's biggest fans too, but sometimes off form he just looks so sluggish. It's nice to have some debates over some players who are playing well for once, rather than needing to pick to make up numbers. Scrum half is not looking great, but I've been really impressed with Rhodri Williams, it's good that he's going to be given the chance to train (and hopefully have game time).

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm disappointed there are so few Dragons in the squad, but then I don't think there are many cases where a Dragons player has missed out to another player who isn't as good. Lewis Evans was a shout, but all the back rowers picked are quality, so fair enough. (Although Ryan Jones might be a bit long in the tooth?) Maybe Jason Tovey could have been selected ahead of Rhys Patchell (potentially a great player, but still very green) and there's a good two or three scrum halves I'd select ahead of Lloyd Williams, but there you go. It means we're less disrupted than others over the next few weeks!

Just chatting about this with a fellow Dragons fan - at least we will be stronger during the AIs

Ok pretty much what we expected. However, i am quite annoyed with 4 choices.
Aaron Jarvis - Yes he is a great Tighthead when fit, however he hasn't had hardly any game time so far, he need to be rested.
However I was to replace Samson for someone it would be for Scott Andrews. He is a big worry for me as well, I mean to get the battering he got against Toulon at  a semi professional age grade was actually scary to watch. His work around the pitch is great for a prop, but until he strengthens his scrummaging to become at least stable he shouldn't really be near the international team.
Rhodri Williams -  still very young mind and ha only had 3 starts i think, still very green with some decisions.
Luke Charteris -  Same case as Aaron
Bevington - is nowhere near as good form as Rhys Gill, Rhys is also such a good scrummager (he is very underrated I believe)

I would have had
Samson for Scott
Richie Rees for Rhodri
Jake Ball for Luke
Rhys Gill for Bevington

Rees for Brynmoor's nipper - never really impressed me

Rhodri Williams looks a great player from what I've seen, wont be surprised if he starts over Ll.Williams

If I was to argue Dragons, then I'd say Lewis Evans, Richie Rees and Dan Evans are unlucky. Ryan Jones is not playing that well and certainly blotted his copybook as a six this weekend. Rees is certainly very unlucky. Dan Evans deserves a place on form, but then again form players like Lee Byrne miss out too, so he's probably not getting a look in.

IronMike wrote:Rhodri Williams looks a great player from what I've seen, wont be surprised if he starts over Ll.Williams

Is Rhodri not a 9 ?  

Overall I'm pleased with the squad, mainly because most players are on form and there is no Knoyle, Pretorious, McCusker, Turnbull, etc... I have the usual few gripes though and I suppose the usual suspects will pick up on this, but I'd love to see how you defend your position.

Scott Andrews and Ryan Bevington can't scrum, and simply put we're facing SA and Argentina. If some guys are out and these are relied upon then we're doomed. I'm pleased to see Jarvis back in, however I would have also opted for Gill and Lee (guys who can actually scrummage among other things). I've wanted Ryan Jones to come back but his form is very poor, I think that's in part due to Tandy chucking him back in against top level opposition instead of coming in off the bench. His selection is questionable. I might have opted for somebody like Ball over Charteris as well, mixing a few more green players with the vast experience. Beck shouldn't be anywhere near the squad with his form. I think over time he is continuing to show he'll only be a decent club player, provided there are good players around him. Patchell shouldn't be there ahead of Tovey. Why opt for an erratic fly-half who is increasingly error prone against a settled fly-half with years more professional experience? Got a feeling he'll just be holding tackle bags there.
Others who I support and that I feel were unlucky are Lewis Evans, Richie Rees; but there are a few good players in those positions right now. And it's looks as if Hook has been brought in to be super-sub.

Risca Rev wrote:If I was to argue Dragons, then I'd say Lewis Evans, Richie Rees and Dan Evans are unlucky. Ryan Jones is not playing that well and certainly blotted his copybook as a six this weekend. Rees is certainly very unlucky. Dan Evans deserves a place on form, but then again form players like Lee Byrne miss out too, so he's probably not getting a look in.

The thing is that Lee is an old man now, Dan is still a nipper.  I honestly think this selection seems to be based on historic form, and hype about emerging 'stars', and not actually paying any attention to what players have been performing well and who have been slacking.

I really can't see how the following have been selected ahead of others, especially seeing as the squad seems a bit mis-ballenced

Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys) - I would have gone for Samson Lee, but I guess he will only get his shot when he joins the mighty Ospreys  
Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), - Like others have said Gill has played well recently, but Phil John has been a real force in a very strong pack for the Scarlets and IMO the Scarlets front row coming on from the bench would cause some issues for the opposition.
Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), - Richie Rees has been playing very well this, and last, season.  Lloyd has been in a key position in an underperforming Blues backline, and must shoulder some of that blame.
James Hook (Perpignan), - there is no need for a 4th fly half, there is no need for a 5th (6th as North can play there) centre.  Dan Evans is a very good wing/fullback which would be useful in the squad, and can also cover fly half if a 4th fly half is really needed. Or even Hallam Amos young and skilled on wing and at fullback.

Also possibly I would consider dropping Ryan Jones, who is looking very off form (past it?), for either Shingler, as an blindside/lock, Lewis Evans, back row cover, or Ieaun Jones, outright number 8.  But I can see Ryan has experience and versitility so I can almost understand that call.

From the squad picked I'd go for:
1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. AWJ
5. Davies
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Priestland
11. North
12. S,Williams
13. Davies
14. L.Williams
15. Halfpenny

16. Owens, 17. James, 18. Jarvis, 19, Evans/Coombes, 20. Tipuric, 21. Ll.Williams, 22. Biggar, 23. Hook/Allen/O.Williams

Undecided on some of the subs.

SS, I forgot about Phil John, you're correct there. On Dan Evans; he's played well since joining the Dragons and is yet to see his form rewarded, I think he is ahead of Hook if Hook is considered a 15. Lee should be there ahead of Andrews. Jarvis has played for Wales before and is a good understudy to Jones, plus he is a good scrummager and looks to have adapted to the laws better than Jones. Shingler has played well like you say, I would consider Lewis Evans first though. Shingler is a unique type of player in a sense that he can be easily countered (same with Croft really), these guys player well at club level but a combo of big, strong flanker's can nullify them too easy.

Gutted Gill hasnt been selected, hes the right mixture of James/Bevingtons qualities and I think the next in line for an extended run in the shirt (imo of course). Phil JOhn could have done a job but he probably wont be around for much longer.

Samson Lee I'm assuming is paying for his recent misdemeanour because Scott Andrews has been selected ahead of him.......

Ian Evans selected despite not being in good enough for for the Ospreys before getting injured? Would rather have seen someone else getting some exposure. I am a big Ian Evans fan though so I kinda hope he comes good and can battle Davies for the second of 2 starting lock spots.

Lewis Evans could have been selected, but there's experience in there and players who have done the jobs asked of them very, very well beforehand and have versatility.

Rhodri Williams deserves his spot, hes on fire, very intelligent player, seems to make the right decision at the right times. Lloyd williams is playing the best rugby Ive seen him play in a fair while (admittedly that still doesnt speak volumes) and Philip's back on the sauce. I would have preferred Richie Rees come in for on of them to be honest.

Could we be looking at a backline with 5 scarlets + North & Halfpenny?

Very happy with Allan/Owen Williams making the squad, we could have seen Dixon in over Beck had he not been injured, this just means we're going to see Evans and Hewitt trotting out for the blues. Par.

Patchell/Tovey/Hook would have been close but I'd have taken Hook for his versatility and leave the other 2 to gain form and keep playing regularly.

Anyone know when Copeland qualifies for Wales?

Comfort wrote:Samson Lee I'm assuming is paying for his recent misdemeanour because Scott Andrews has been selected ahead of him.......

I don't buy that, what was the reasoning for Rhodri Jones going to Japan ahead of him as a tighthead in the summer (and being over looked for the AIs and 6Ns last season too). I think his face doesn't fit and he is going to be one of those great players that never gets to really show what they can do on the big stage.

Copeland doesnt qualify for Wales, and probably wont until 2015 or so if he wants to.

The Saint wrote:From the squad picked I'd go for:
1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. AWJ
5. Davies
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Phillips
10. Priestland
11. North
12. S,Williams
13. Davies
14. L.Williams
15. Halfpenny

16. Owens, 17. James, 18. Jarvis, 19, Evans/Coombes, 20. Tipuric, 21. Ll.Williams, 22. Biggar, 23. Hook/Allen/O.Williams

Undecided on some of the subs.

Swap Liam Williams around with Halfpenny and that is a seriously good side, and that is without Jamie Riberts and Alex Cuthbert.

Has maybe Samson Lee not been picked as a warning for in-discipline maybe not sure.

I think the side for the Boks game is pretty much inked in already and whilst I hope players are given the chance to impress for the Oz game I hope we don't make wholesale changes for the the other two games or we will come unstuck like last season and seasons gone by.

For me against the Boks I would go for

James (Jenkins likely to start)
Hibbard
A Jones
AWJ
Evans
Lydiate
Faletau
Warburton

Phillips
Biggar (Though just as happy if Priestland starts)

North
Sc Williams
JD
Li Williams (Or at XV with Halfpenny on wing)

Halfpenny (Or at wing with Li Williams at XV)

Jenkins (Guess it will be James)
Owens
Davies
Tipuric

R Williams
Priestland
Walker

Thats my choice though its quite a strong squad IMO so whilst others may dis-agree I would be happy with some of the alternatives.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Comfort wrote:Samson Lee I'm assuming is paying for his recent misdemeanour because Scott Andrews has been selected ahead of him.......

I don't buy that, what was the reasoning for Rhodri Jones going to Japan ahead of him as a tighthead in the summer (and being over looked for the AIs and 6Ns last season too).  I think his face doesn't fit and he is going to be one of those great players that never gets to really show what they can do on the big stage.

SS, well somethings up I agree with you, even as a Blues fan (and if I wanted too) theres no way I could argue that the guy who got lifted 6ft in the air mid-scrum is a better fit in anyway shape or form for the welsh squad than an old school scrummaging TH who looks like he loves nothing more than the physical battle and has equalled or bettered every LH hes come up against so far this season.

Something aint right, but then, I cant see any reason Bevington would get selected ahead of Gill either, so go figure I guess!

Copeland will qualify one day. Someone get that man a lovely little welsh beauty to tend to his dragon and get that welsh fire in his belly.

In the past I have been one of Andrews' biggest critics and I dreaded seeing his name on the team sheet and the sight of him warming up pitch side.

That said and despite his getting mullered on the weekend last season when he was called upon he surprised more than just me and had some very good performances.

Lets hope once back in the Welsh set up he lifts his game again. Bevington over Gill really disappoints but not surprises me.

Yes Andrews surprised us against the Aussies last year and against the mighty Japanese, but his form doesn't merit selection. Nor has he kicked on and developed from these promising but very rare performances. Getting lifted 6ft in the air during a scrum was a final straw for me.

Byrne sounds a little bitter, but their is a grain of truth

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24627551

They knew the score as such and there are better, younger players than Byrne in Wales at the moment currently on form as well.

If Byrne had said this, say last years AI series or the tour to Japan, then he'd be 100% on the button. I don't think he's correct now though, I'd opt for Halfpenny, Williams and Hook ahead of him. Doesn't help that he's always been an arrogant man, which can explain the tweet.