Joey Barton - Oracle or Attention Seeker?

Joey Barton has made headlines again by criticising England's 'Golden Generation' and perhaps more controversially stating that Sir Alex Ferguson was not a great coach.

Speaking at the 'Leaders in Football' conference at Stamford Bridge on Thursday here are a few choice quotes from the Scouse rascal.

On the England Team:

"I don't think we've had great players. People go on about the golden generation. I don't think we've had it because they haven't won anything, so they're not a golden generation."

On the culture within British Football:

"We don't honour coaches in this country, we honour managers, we love managers."

On Sir Alex Ferguson:

"I am not here to disrespect Fergie. He is a great manager, the icon, the pinnacle of British management. But he couldn't put on a coaching session to save his life. I've spoken to people about him and he can barely lay out cones. This is not a coach, this is a manager. This is the difference - there is a big, big difference between a coach and a manager."

The full article can be found on the Sky Sports website (I would post the link but as a new member I'm not allowed to for 7 days in case I'm a robot trying to sell you Viagra/steal your credit card info!)

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What does everyone think about this? Is Joey Barton speaking some sense or is this just another attempt to keep his name in the headlines in the run up to the January transfer window (given he is on record as saying he doesn't really want to be playing Championship football)?

Welcome to the forum.  

And Joey Barton is just a mindless attention-seeker, hoping to create controversy every time he opens his mouth. Kind of like David Starkey, whenever he appears on Question Time. Why the media listen to Barton, I have no idea.

Completely disagree, posted that link in another thread, he does come out with some nonsense but for me Joey Barton is spot on with a lot of what he says about the English national team and i would even agree with him to an extent with what he is saying about Ferguson.

Lineker has come out and criticised the FA also today, well Dyke in particular for this panel which has been set up! Barring Hoddle (on it for appeasing the press) it is a panel of yes men and people who are now outdated from the modern game. Old, outdated and out of touch with what is going on in the game now....much like the FA itself!

Yeah, but a lot of the time he's just saying what people actually think, got the balls. Yeah, he's annoying but a character of the game. He's right, England are ****, a lot of people think that & the results showcase that. I even think Fergie would admit he's a better man manager than coach. In his last ten years, pretty sure Fergie did no coaching, just stood there as an onlooker & allowed his extensive back room staff to take control & then he would make the team decisions about who's trained well, from the advice of his coaches.

owen10ozzy wrote: Barring Hoddle (on it for appeasing the press) it is a panel of yes men and people who are now outdated from the modern game. Old, outdated and out of touch with what is going on in the game now....much like the FA itself!

How can you say that when such luminaries of the game as Danny Mills are on the panel!

In fairness to Barton he comes across as a bit of a twit with his new pseudo-intellectual persona (there's a bit of the article where he says he's losing faith in democracy!) but the broader points he makes are pretty accurate.

There is an old guard in British football who are completely opposed to the continental (and arguably more successful) style of sporting director/director of football + head coach structure. That old guard have probably held British football back by about 10 - 15 years.

It's probably a bit strong to say Fergie didn't have a clue about coaching, I doubt anyone could have the success he does without knowing how to coach. But again the broader point that he is a manager rather than a coach is a good one.

He's also right to say the FA are useless, given that their structure is the same as your local village cricket club.

Joey Barton = a moron. For every one comment that makes sense, he has five absolute f-wit moments. He should be muzzled.

Oracle & Attention Seeker

Barton is always good value as he always has something worthwhile to say, his problem is that he lacks the confidence to stick to his point and has to go into hyperbole overdrive which then sees his main point buried.

He said England haven't had a golden generation, have they? I totally agree with him, a golden generation would be seriously challenging for honours, how many times have this golden generation of the last 15 years (8 tournaments) have reached a Semi Final?

Neither - he's a Kumquat

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Neither - he's a Kumquat

Hear hear  

Azzy Mahmood wrote:Joey Barton = a moron. For every one comment that makes sense, he has five absolute f-wit moments. He should be muzzled.

P:laugh: 

The thing that annoys me about Barton, and the twitterati in general is that they're so keen to put the boot in, but not prepared to raise their heads above the paraphet and come up with any alternative solutions. If Barton was to come up with some suggestions, rather than whining like Kevin the teenager, I might take him more seriously.

Kay Fabe made a good point about him going into Hyperbole as well, everything black and white with him and his ilk.

He's just an idiot and even worse he thinks he is smart.

Should just be quiet, a very average player who by all rights should be an unknown- only in people's minds for being a thug and talking absolute crap.

The guy put on a fake French accent to give an interview in English to French journalists - he is a bottom feeder and probably intellectually sub normal.

And Steve McClaren put on a Dutch accent so I don't really see you're point Ent, unless you're saying those two are the same? I'm pretty sure Beckham put a French accent on as well.

While he is a thug, he is actually a decent footballer when his head is on right. I'm sure people will laugh but he would have made a big difference to that QPR last season, he's already made a difference this one. A lot of what he says there is sense, not sure many actually disagree with him.

Putting on a fake accent or more likely adjusting the tone of your accent in orderto be better understood is supposedly a sign of high intelligence.

Doesn't stop it from being hilarious tho..

It makes you muppet.

Speaking Dutch whilst living in holland and then having a twang when you do the occasional interview in English isn't remotely the same.

Steve McClaren wasn't living in Holland at the time it was one of his first interviews at FC Twente, and Beckham had only just moved to PSG.

Do you disagree with what he says in this article? I can't see a lot he's said wrong to be honest.

People just see it's Barton & immediately discount anything he's saying or even pass judgement without even actually listening to him. Yeah, I think he's a to**** & annoying but he's a character & more importantly openly expresses his views, which are pretty much the views of many people in the game who are too scared to come out with them. Agree with many of his points, not all of them.

He isn't a character he is a special.

Honestly he doesn't deserve your thoughts never mind discussion on a website.

He's no genius. He's following popular opinion and mixing it with statements that flower controversy. Ferguson may have delegated later into his career, but you're telling me he rocked up at Aberdeen or early United and couldn't coach?

Let alone that most of his twitter "debate" often ends with him threatening to release insider "knowledge" that will defame. He's an arrogant Tinkywinky. He's not that good. Frankly, he knows that all this mouthing off works for him. People now believe he's better than he is. The guy honestly thinks himself a player worthy of starting for England. He's not even better than Mark Noble. Let alone the fact he doesn't seem to understand that football is a game where character is hugely important.

He is, and remains, a Kumquat. People who pay him attention are almost as bad

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:He's no genius. He's following popular opinion and mixing it with statements that flower controversy. Ferguson may have delegated later into his career, but you're telling me he rocked up at Aberdeen or early United and couldn't coach?

Let alone that most of his twitter "debate" often ends with him threatening to release insider "knowledge" that will defame. He's an arrogant Tinkywinky. He's not that good. Frankly, he knows that all this mouthing off works for him. People now believe he's better than he is. The guy honestly thinks himself a player worthy of starting for England. He's not even better than Mark Noble. Let alone the fact he doesn't seem to understand that football is a game where character is hugely important.

He is, and remains, a Kumquat. People who pay him attention are almost as bad

Spot on  

To be honest, the only people who could tell you whether SAF was a good coach or not are those who worked with him. Maybe what Barton said in this regard is accurate, and certainly makes a lot more sense when put into the full context of pointing out the difference between being a manager and a coach - there is no doubt that Fergie was one of the finest motivators, man managers and tacticians, but perhaps he (as with Clive Woodward for England's rugby team) was better at delegating coaching responsibility.

As for the 'Golden Generation' comment, I think that's just a straw man - the supposed golden generation was 10 years ago with Gerrard, Lampard , Terry and a young Rooney adding to the nucleus of the Man U contingent (Neville, Beckham, Scholes, Ferdinand) and Owen. That that group of players fell short between about 2002 and 2006 was the disappointment, not that this current team in transition isn't really challenging the big nations.

He's a rat, utterly useless player who has the technical ability of a pub league player. He's also a really bad guy, he may be right with some thing's but what gives him the right to comment on soooo many considerably more talented than himself, recently Thiago Silva, calling him a "ladyboy" what does that achieve? Just bullying from a little thug.

attention seeker all day long

what his point on fergie? i dont get what he's on about, fergie was a manager and not a coach so why does it even matter? he's got all his badges though which is more than mr barton so think id still choose fergie over barton, barton is also being fast tracked through his badges simply because he's a well known footballer while the rest of us going through badges has to slog it out

and to be fair to the england's golden generation it was a great squad, just because we didnt win anything doesn't mean they weren't good. suppose this germany squad is no good because they havent won anything? what about hollands total football team suppose they were rubbish also?

that england team had fair few world class players, scholes, beckham, gerrard, cole, lampard, rio, shearer and owen were all world class in there own right. look at this current squad and ask who's world class? rooney? well im a united fan and he's not been playing to a world class standard for quite a while, so we dont have a single world class player in this current squad (gerrard and lampard have both faded and are half the players they once were)

funny thing is this squad is rubbish but barton still isnt getting anywhere near it

monty junior wrote:He's a rat, utterly useless player who has the technical ability of a pub league player. He's also a really bad guy, he may be right with some thing's but what gives him the right to comment on soooo many considerably more talented than himself, recently Thiago Silva, calling him a "ladyboy" what does that achieve? Just bullying from a little thug.

Agree with most of what people are saying but I do think some people just have it in for him, regardless of whatever he's saying or has been said previously. He was not a useless player at all. Played for some good clubs & was instrumental in Newcastle's promotion back into the EPL. He single-handily set-up the majority of Andy Carroll's goals in the Championship & in our first season back in the EPL. Technical ability of a pub player? Now your just being dumb because of the hatred you have against him & his opinions. Was a superb crosser of the ball in his prime, just ask Andy Carroll. Went onto play for Marseille & even broke into the first team & helped them qualify for the Champions League. Also achieved an England cap. Yeah, it's only one cap but you can't discount it.

Yeah, he's a thug with a big mouth but at least he creates some kind of interest that keeps you people interested on here for so long.

Not at all, I'm a Newcastle fan as well and always thought he completely useless when he faced even reasonable opposition. Always misplacing passes, getting in trouble and could hardly control the ball, yea he played well in the Championship, because that was his level, he was always hopeless in the EPL and I was over the moon when he left to cause trouble elsewhere. Incidentally Newcastle's performance in the league was much better after he moved to QPR. I don't hate him because I don't know him, doesn't stop me forming a pretty fair opinion of him being a horrible human being (beating up drunken teenagers, stubbing a cigarette in a young players eye) , bullying, attention seeking which is pretty irrefutable and frankly at best being an extremely average player, see his one international cap despite his constant slating of his national team. Even Scott Parker has more ability, just a scumbag.

Football wise. He is good. Not as good as he appears to think he is, but good. Mid table PL about as good as he could play.

Opinion wise. He gets some things right, but the every one thing right there's 5 things dickish is pretty nailed on. And by jingo when he says stupid things they aren't half stupid.

Can be an utter bell end, but does have the balls to say things unlike an awful lot of players (probably shouldn't speak more often than not but I from an entertainment perspective I prefer that to the endless dullards that speak <insert majority of PL players here>).