Dickinson or Ewers

If Ben Morgan is to be replaced in the England EPS after a poor start to the season would you rather see Northamptons late blooming Sam Dickinson or 22 year old Zimbabwean born Exeter 8 Dave Ewers? Both have had powerful starts to the season, good to see strength in depth emerging in this position after having to play Tom Wood there last year!

Although they both look real good so far, I think it is early for both of them. I wouldn't promote players having their first real strong run of form, and only after 5 league matches. Maybe by the 6 Nations? Seems a bit rushed, no?

Not being negative about either player. I would prefer to give them more of a season then we see where they are. Hopefully portends more depth for England and that's a good thing.

Has Morgan spent this past off-season preparing for the hot dog eating context in New York?
http://www.nathansfamous.com/index.php/hot-dog-eating-contest

You're probably right, mostly a hypothetical idea. But if Morgan is dropped somebody had to come in. Who do you reckon instead?

I would promote from the Saxons, and then bring up either Dickinson or Ewers into that squad. I suppose that means Jordan Crane, Waldrom, Haskell (injured?). None of these guys gets the heart racing, but at least they have been in the England set up.

Think Haskell is injured,hasn't played for wasps all season. Crane has been playing well,not dynamic but very solid with good hands and a good leader. Mightn't be a bad shout!

Dickinson has looked great but Ewers just seems to be a bit special, he doesn't do anything wrong and is an absolute beast.

I'd be inclined to get Ewers involved now and lets the coaching set up work on him a bit, he reminds me of Kieran Read in his style of play a little.

Surely Billy V is the next in line...though I don't want to drop Morgan so quickly.

How's Haskell playing aswell.

Are Ewers and Dickinson both foreign English qualified?

Has Clifford being playing for Quins?

Haskell has been injured I think GF.

I'm pretty sure Dickinson is English and Ewers has been over here 9 years.

Ah cheers Sarge...

Dickinson is English born but a late comer to the too tier of national rugby, he's played his way up through the leagues.

Ewers was born in Zimbabwe but I think he and his family were forced to leave and he has been brought up in England and played all his rugby here.

Crane has been playing ok but isn't showing his best form. Morgan has been anonymous, Waldrom can't get a game for Tigers and, Haskell is injured. Really leaves us with only Billy V. Need to promote one of these two. I would go with Ewers. Dickinson is a little hot headed at times and has conceded a couple of cards. Ewers is more disciplined and has a great work rate to go with his carrying ability.

Get Ewers in asap!!! I'm sick of Enhlish rugby going for the safe option! And to be honest Dave Ewers in terms of Rugby ability is the safest option, much more effective than Vunipola in terms of work rate and is an absolute beast in attack

Rugby is changing and the bigger your pack the better and they don't come much bigger than Ewers

I'd love to see

Attwood
Lawes
Vunipola
Kvesic
Ewers

Kvesic??? I just see what he brings to the table tbh

My thinking being that by picking Ewers and Vunipola you would need a breakdown man as well, I'd pick a link man like Tom Johnson but I'm obviously biased, Robshaw not on form and I'm not convinced Tom Wood is big enough with modern forward packs, always seems a bit bullied

I've seen nothing to suggest Kvesic is this breakdown specialist people keep raving about on here(not aiming at you Tiger).

If any 7 is going to get close to Wood or Robshaw it's Fraser. Kvesic has looked awful this season imo.

I'd consider Fraser over Kvesic, purely cos he's got the bulk and operates on the floor, with the added bonus he scores try's!!

I'd love to see Morgan back to his best cos both Ewers and Vunipola can and have played 6 leaving a straight fight between robshaw and wood for 7!

Wood never again at 8!! To lightweight

Agree with Sgt, Kvesic and Morgan have been poor for Glaws. That backrow unit has yet to really tick.

Robshaw at 7 would be the expected selection with Wood looking rather average for Saints. Fraser needs to get his fitness back before he becomes a serious consideration. Not sure I'd throw both Vunipola and Ewers into the international arena at the same time, we might need a touch more experience for the All Blacks.

Agree Sam, it won't happen.

6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Vuinipola

20. Fraser

With Ewers involved in training squad is more likely.

Kvesic is playing even worse than Crapshaw and that really takes some doing. Fraser is the best pick at 7, even injured he's better than the alternatives.

Agree that I don't think Morgan or Kvesic will get near the team with Gloucesters start to the season. I'm pretty sure Henry Trinder has made more turnovers than both combined! Don't know why Morgan has fallen so badly out of favour with Nigel Davies, maybe just had a poor pre season.

Hard to look past Robshaw at 7, been impressed with his defensive performances in a Quins team struggling for form. Based on line out ability I'd be sure Wood will get the 6 shirt with Croft being out. So if Vunipola starts at 8 I think he'll go with another true 8 on the bench because Haskell is out injured, could be Ewers although Tom Johnson could also fill the Haskell role as an all rounder.

Far far too early to be writing off Ben Morgan. He had a poor start v Sale and has only started once since. He's not really had the opportunity to demonstrate a regaining of form.

Presently it would seem impossible for him to start given the lack of game time and as such it has to be Billy V at 8. That still worries me slightly, he's still only 20 and has a lot of learning left to do.

Ewers looks special that's for sure, i'd like to see him involved with the Saxons asap. I'm surprised he's not appeared at any age-grade level for England. He's stood out for a while if only as a replacement.

Here's my monster pack:

1. A Corbisiero
2. R Webber
3. D Wilson
4. D Attwood
5. C Lawes
6. D Ewers
7. C Fearns
8. B Vunipola

16. D Hartley 17. M Vunipola 18. H Thomas 19. E Slater 20. B Morgan

You can't say that pack lacks for carriers. Maybe a touch one dimensional in the line-out though but i'm sure Lawes can handle it.

Should Lancaster be playing the best available right now or have one eye on who will/should be the best come 2015.

If thats not the case then why has Nick Easter remained uncapped under Lancaster?

Kvesic, Fraser, Ewers, Vunipola.... one of them at least is going to make it out of the 4 over the next 2 years... you don't want to get into a situation similar to England in 2011 when they only finally acknowledged Manu Tuilagi 2 months before the competition started and too late to get him settled into the squad.

ARG and AUS are two games where Lancaster can experiment a little and with the 6N, the NZ 2014 tour he's going to have few other opportunities to blood inexperienced players.

fa0019 wrote:Should Lancaster be playing the best available right now or have one eye on who will/should be the best come 2015.

If thats not the case then why has Nick Easter remained uncapped under Lancaster?

Kvesic, Fraser, Ewers, Vunipola.... one of them at least is going to make it out of the 4 over the next 2 years... you don't want to get into a situation similar to England in 2011 when they only finally acknowledged Manu Tuilagi 2 months before the competition started and too late to get him settled into the squad.

ARG and AUS are two games where Lancaster can experiment a little and with the 6N, the NZ 2014 tour he's going to have few other opportunities to blood inexperienced players.

It seems that this EPS has been the key one. They're taking that as the settled group with one or two introductions as and when injuries strike. The likes of Ewers, Fraser and Vunipola deserve a shot on merit. As you say though FA he's got maybe two or three games one might be able to chalk down as more 'experimental' ones.

Anyone who's coming in now such as B Vunipola and the like will need to be ready and able to show they're not going to let the shirt go lightly. No second chances from here on in I would say.

Its about bringing them in with confidence and that they play alongside veterans.

If you blood a new centre vs. the RC sides you want an experienced player on both sides.

Same at flanker.... I remember when Lewis Moody came into the side in 2002... SCW blooded him as starter in all 3 AI matches and he alternated Hill, Back and Dillaglio around his education.

Fearns would be an even worse choice than Robshaw and Wilson is rubbish. Although he did look good against a largely second rate or amateur Argentina over the summer.

True fa, the only issue being we don't have any veterans bar Toby Flood. If Vunipola or Fraser were to come in they'd likely play alongside Tom Wood and Chris Robshaw (Morgan for Fraser) I think they have combined caps of 29!

can pack a punch though... even Bruce Lee would have been proud of that 1inch jab. That deserves a call up surely??

Trevor40 wrote:Fearns would be an even worse choice than Robshaw and Wilson is rubbish. Although he did look good against a largely second rate or amateur Argentina over the summer.

Yes if you'd like to apply the skills of reading and re-read that post you'll see it's a)hypothetical b) somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Wilson is a long way from rubbish. Fearns is more a 6 or 8 for my money. I'm sure you're aware he's been a physical presence for Bath in that slot though.

Awww bless. Have we got a new wum?

Chjw131 wrote:

Trevor40 wrote:Fearns would be an even worse choice than Robshaw and Wilson is rubbish. Although he did look good against a largely second rate or amateur Argentina over the summer.

Yes if you'd like to apply the skills of reading and re-read that post you'll see it's a)hypothetical b) somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Wilson is a long way from rubbish. Fearns is more a 6 or 8 for my money. I'm sure you're aware he's been a physical presence for Bath in that slot though.

 

No 7&1/2 wrote:Awww bless. Have we got a new wum?

I'm not so sure "new" would be the correct adjective

Are you sure that there are changes to the EPS & Saxons other tan those forced thru injury? I think that Croft and Haskell are the ones to be replaced? I'd go with Dickinson, let's leave Ewers out of it for the time being

Too early for both ewers and dickinson, and i dont agree of knee jerk selections due to a player being popular for a short period of time. Personally over this year i would like to see crane and waldrom phased out and definatley at least Ewers promoted to the saxons, then one injury to either morgan or vunipola and they get there chance. Fraser looks the real deal to me at 7 but once again he will have bide his time as he is below robshaw and kvesic. For the AI we will see Wood Morgan Robshaw, with either vunipola or kveisc on the bench.

sirtidychris wrote:Too early for both ewers and dickinson, and i dont agree of knee jerk selections due to a player being popular for a short period of time. Personally over this year i would like to see crane and waldrom phased out and definatley at least Ewers promoted to the saxons, then one injury to either morgan or vunipola and they get there chance. Fraser looks the real deal to me at 7 but once again he will have bide his time as he is below robshaw and kvesic. For the AI we will see Wood Morgan Robshaw, with either vunipola or kveisc on the bench.

I wouldn't be overly suprised if Ewers was currently being considered by Lancaster considering Morgan's not pulling up trees. The last thing we need is for him to consider Wood at 8 again. Fraser is definately behind Robshaw but he would probably have been the 7 in the summer but for injury. Don't think it's beyong the realms of possibility for him to be involved.

Lancaster had this to say on the matter last week:

"The good thing is that we're developing strength in depth," the coach said in Morley, where the latest England playing strip was formally unveiled. "It's not long ago that we went to Wales in the Six Nations with Tom Wood [the specialist blind-side flanker from Northampton] at No 8, which wasn't ideal. But to pick an elite squad in July or August and then see someone like Dickinson come along and have a great September… that's part of the challenge.

"Ewers is another playing with real power, but while bringing players in from outside the squad is something that can be achieved, it hasn't been achieved yet. On current evidence, a player like Sam would certainly be there or thereabouts for the Saxons."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/stuart-lancaster-frustrated-at-block-on-sam-dickinson-8867474.html

No 7&1/2 wrote:

sirtidychris wrote:Too early for both ewers and dickinson, and i dont agree of knee jerk selections due to a player being popular for a short period of time. Personally over this year i would like to see crane and waldrom phased out and definatley at least Ewers promoted to the saxons, then one injury to either morgan or vunipola and they get there chance. Fraser looks the real deal to me at 7 but once again he will have bide his time as he is below robshaw and kvesic. For the AI we will see Wood Morgan Robshaw, with either vunipola or kveisc on the bench.

I wouldn't be overly suprised if Ewers was currently being considered by Lancaster considering Morgan's not pulling up trees. The last thing we need is for him to consider Wood at 8 again. Fraser is definately behind Robshaw but he would probably have been the 7 in the summer but for injury. Don't think it's beyong the realms of possibility for him to be involved.

Yeah, im not seeing anything from Kvesic so far this season...him and Morgan have been poor.

What the hell are the Glos coaching staff doing?

To be fair it's really their front 5 that are killing those two. And the total lack of gameplan at times.

Tiger/Chief wrote:Get Ewers in asap!!! I'm sick of Enhlish rugby going for the safe option! And to be honest Dave Ewers in terms of Rugby ability is the safest option, much more effective than Vunipola in terms of work rate and is an absolute beast in attack

Rugby is changing and the bigger your pack the better and they don't come much bigger than Ewers

I'd love to see

Attwood
Lawes
Vunipola
Kvesic
Ewers

 Well, there's some very traditional British names in there. Sounds more like a BaBaas side. 

Sorry, I could not resist.  

Hardly surprising in a multi cultural society, have you been in a coma for the last 50 years or are you just plain ignorant?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hardly surprising in a multi cultural society, have you been in a coma for the last 50 years or are you just plain ignorant?

 

Unless the whole team share two surnames it's not de rigueur apparently.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hardly surprising in a multi cultural society, have you been in a coma for the last 50 years or are you just plain ignorant?

 

Chjw131 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hardly surprising in a multi cultural society, have you been in a coma for the last 50 years or are you just plain ignorant?

 

Unless the whole team share two surnames it's not de rigueur apparently.

Touche.

LordDowlais wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hardly surprising in a multi cultural society, have you been in a coma for the last 50 years or are you just plain ignorant?

 

I take it the latter than.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hardly surprising in a multi cultural society, have you been in a coma for the last 50 years or are you just plain ignorant?

 

I take it the latter than.

I was trying to make a little light hearted fun on here, hence all the smiley's, christ some people are so precious. 

Or maybe it just wasn't funny

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Or maybe it just wasn't funny

Please, lighten up. 

Come come now ladies. Let's not de-rail another thread with the 'foreign' player argument again. The Welsh are just bitter they missed out on the Vunipolas.

Chjw131 wrote:Come come now ladies. Let's not de-rail another thread with the 'foreign' player argument again. The Welsh are just bitter they missed out on the Vunipolas.

 

Oi, they were ours, no wait they were Samoas, no they were.................... arghh. feck it.

They must have chosen the easiest route available to them, the proof is in ther pudding.