Margarito vs Martinez: What has change?

by D4thincarnation Sat May 14, 2011 3:13 pm

Sergio Martinez has ever only been beaten once in the ring IMO, I don't count the Williams fight, Sergio one that one for me.

The only man to stop Sergio was one of the best welter of the late 2000s, Antonio Margarito.
Now some of you would not bet against Sergio reversing that defeat now but what has changed in these two fighters?

Say if Margarito injuries do heal and they fight again at light-middle, what will the result be?

You might be thinking Sergio was not the finished article then, but he boxed in the same way, quick feet, quick hands throwing punches from undorthodox angles, lot a head movement, dropping his hands low, the same style.

And Margarito was the younger fighter and nowhere near his prime either.

The only main difference I see is that Martienz has grown into a middleweight and Margarito can only campaign at light-middle.

Margarito's chin, higher punch output and no let up caused Martinez problem and a similar style could be a way to beat the middleweight King today.

Anyway have a look and see what you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDysWuc57fE&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ETzgVOkuM&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p4SHbkoKic&feature=related

by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 3:20 pm

Martinez would win via a one sided beat down before stopping him around the 7/8th round

by D4thincarnation Sat May 14, 2011 3:22 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:Martinez would win via a one sided beat down before stopping him around the 7/8th round

Not answering the question though are you?

by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 3:28 pm

What happened was Martinez getting progressively better with the Cintron fight propelling him on a steeper upward climb and he hasn't looked back since. With wins over Pavlik, Williams and Dzinziruk he's established himself as the clear number one in the middleweight division, also showed a good variety to his game winning each of those fights in a different way.

With Margarito there are far too many question marks over his whole career now and hasn't looked the same since he got destroyed by Mosley. For someone of his size boiling down to Welterweight can't have been easy and he would have had a longer but maybe less successful career if he'd fought more at Light Middleweight. Much like Hatton he relied on physical advantages so felt the need to boil down.

by sweet_pea Sat May 14, 2011 3:56 pm

what has changed?

no more plastercast.

by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Sat May 14, 2011 4:08 pm

Martinez, although older, was alot less experienced then marg. Marg debuted at 15 while Martinez debuted at 22. Marg is alot more of a plodder these days and his hand speed, which looks good in the video, has greatly deteriorated. Martinez has still got the hand speed and the reflexes but he is alot more skill and has really grown in build.

At LMW is see a one sided beatdown. Marg will walk into martinez best shots which wouldn't bode too well for marg. Martinez to pop the jab all night and win from the outside.

by D4thincarnation Sat May 14, 2011 4:25 pm

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Martinez, although older, was alot less experienced then marg. Marg debuted at 15 while Martinez debuted at 22. Marg is alot more of a plodder these days and his hand speed, which looks good in the video, has greatly deteriorated. Martinez has still got the hand speed and the reflexes but he is alot more skill and has really grown in build.

At LMW is see a one sided beatdown. Marg will walk into martinez best shots which wouldn't bode too well for marg. Martinez to pop the jab all night and win from the outside.

Thanks for answering and actually watching the fight.

Marg was only around 21 at the time and had only had a couple for fight that Martinez.

Marg is that same come forward fighter than throws a lot of punches.

I though the body shots by Marg were briliant, went to the body then then went back upstairs.

Martinez has improved but he does many the things the same and I Marg has laid down a marker how to beat him.

Margs also block of Martinez's wide shots, and come back with shots straight down the middle.

by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Sat May 14, 2011 4:43 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Martinez, although older, was alot less experienced then marg. Marg debuted at 15 while Martinez debuted at 22. Marg is alot more of a plodder these days and his hand speed, which looks good in the video, has greatly deteriorated. Martinez has still got the hand speed and the reflexes but he is alot more skill and has really grown in build.

At LMW is see a one sided beatdown. Marg will walk into martinez best shots which wouldn't bode too well for marg. Martinez to pop the jab all night and win from the outside.

Thanks for answering and actually watching the fight.

Marg was only around 21 at the time and had only had a couple for fight that Martinez.

Marg is that same come forward fighter than throws a lot of punches.

I though the body shots by Marg were briliant, went to the body then then went back upstairs.

Martinez has improved but he does many the things the same and I Marg has laid down a marker how to beat him.

Margs also block of Martinez's wide shots, and come back with shots straight down the middle.

I probably wouldn't use this tactic to beat Martinez. Marg was a come forward fighter, but I think he throws less than Williams does. Martinez looked prone to the body shots, but looking at him, it may be because he was too light. He is a natural LMW and not a welter. Looking at his stature now, I think he could take Tonys best body shots well. Martinez has a good right right left cross combination which he uses more frequently and restricts the wide shots untill he gets good opportunities. Looking at marg against manny, he held a high guard which would make him more prone to that combo and would be harder for him to get his own shots off.

by supremeskills Sat May 14, 2011 5:05 pm

martinez wants to fight floyd or manny because he thinks floyds the best and mannys number 2.so marg doesnt interest him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKAKqoDMk3Y

by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Sat May 14, 2011 5:25 pm

supremeskills wrote:martinez wants to fight floyd or manny because he thinks floyds the best and mannys number 2.so marg doesnt interest him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKAKqoDMk3Y

The problem though is that neither will fight him. Mayweather will most likely fight Ortiz, and I doubt he goes above welter. Mayweathers style won't do well IMO as he won't e able to get close enough to hit or hurt him frequently enough. Pacquaio is looking like Judah and Marquez will be his next two opponents. He won't fight martinez as Martinez would easily KO him even it a catchweight.

Strum and pirog are the standouts in his division which shows how weak the MW division is. The SMW division would be too big a step up. Sergio is a smallish MW, and I can't see him beating the top SMWs. LMW is his next move, cotto would be good but he marg-cotto fight will set that back a bit. He will probably fight the zbik-Chavez winner which he should win comfortably.

by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 5:40 pm

Thing is Martinez doesn't box in one particular way, you have merely listed his attributes

Against Pavlik he took the fight to him relied on his superior handspeed to land first
Against Williams second time round he resorted to counter punching and scored the KO of the year
And then against Dzinziruk he out jabbed the jabber

by D4thincarnation Sat May 14, 2011 5:44 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:Thing is Martinez doesn't box in one particular way, you have merely listed his attributes

Against Pavlik he took the fight to him relied on his superior handspeed to land first
Against Williams second time round he resorted to counter punching and scored the KO of the year
And then against Dzinziruk he out jabbed the jabber

So you can't recognise, Martinez's style.

So against Williams he abandoned his superior handspeed
And against Pavlik he didn't counter punch
And agaisnt Dzinziruk he didn't counter punch and and showed slow handspeed.

by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 5:47 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
The Mighty Atom wrote:Thing is Martinez doesn't box in one particular way, you have merely listed his attributes

Against Pavlik he took the fight to him relied on his superior handspeed to land first
Against Williams second time round he resorted to counter punching and scored the KO of the year
And then against Dzinziruk he out jabbed the jabber

So you can't recognise, Martinez's style.

So against Williams he abandoned his superior handspeed
And against Pavlik he didn't counter punch
And agaisnt Dzinziruk he didn't counter punch and and showed slow handspeed.

I fail to see the point your trying to make?

He saw that Williams left himself open to the left hand counter so focused on that
Against Pavlik he knew he had the quicker so relied on that
He outjabbed Dzinziruk because of his handspeed

by D4thincarnation Sat May 14, 2011 5:49 pm

Martinez has made the most of the middleweight division being light on talent.

I could still see Marg giving him problems at light-middle.

Can you imagine what a Benn, Eubank, Hagler, Nunn, Toney, McCallum, Hopkins or RJJ would deal with Martinez?

by WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs Sat May 14, 2011 5:51 pm

I'm with atom here. He executes his gameplan brilliantly. Dzinziruk would have been alot more dangerous if he was winning the jab battle. Martinez stifled his greatest weapon and won very convincingly. Pavlik was/is a limited boxer and Martinez managed to exploit it. He does have a particular style but he used it to different effect depending on the opponents

by D4thincarnation Sat May 14, 2011 5:53 pm

The Mighty Atom wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
The Mighty Atom wrote:Thing is Martinez doesn't box in one particular way, you have merely listed his attributes

Against Pavlik he took the fight to him relied on his superior handspeed to land first
Against Williams second time round he resorted to counter punching and scored the KO of the year
And then against Dzinziruk he out jabbed the jabber

So you can't recognise, Martinez's style.

So against Williams he abandoned his superior handspeed
And against Pavlik he didn't counter punch
And agaisnt Dzinziruk he didn't counter punch and and showed slow handspeed.

I fail to see the point your trying to make?

He saw that Williams left himself open to the left hand counter so focused on that
Against Pavlik he knew he had the quicker so relied on that
He outjabbed Dzinziruk because of his handspeed

That not all he done now what is.

Martinez has his style, he has habits and patterns, I can see it, maybe you can't

by Imperial Ghosty Sat May 14, 2011 6:02 pm

Oh do explain it to me master tactician

Margarito stands no chance against him now, he's just far too good and yes he has exploited the middleweight division being weak on talent but you can only beat those in front of you which he has done.

by J.Benson II Sat May 14, 2011 6:18 pm

The problem I have with Martinez is that I feel he may have peaked too late in his career. For a boxer who relies on handspeed, his age might become a factor in his next few fights.
Either way, I think he beats Margarito quite easily. The Mexican has suffered 2 severe beatdowns in his last 3 fights. Miguel Cotto could well give him boxing lesson next.

Sturm and Pirog would be the best options for Martinez. Sturm is a big MW and is under-rated imo, Pirog has a very cagey, awkward style that blends traditional Europeon and American techniques. Both would be unification bouts and provide a tough night for the Argentine.
If neither can be arranged, than a re-match with Pavlik will be good to see.

by Young_Towzer Sat May 14, 2011 7:46 pm

As he is my best boxer, i have long followed Sergio's career, before he became a world champ with the Cintron win, when he fought Margarito, who was a very dangerous fighter he was nowhere near what he is now, and nowhere near as well schooled, imo he's the 2nd best fighter in the world now, he wasnt then and would comfortably beat Margarito now.

by Imperial Ghosty Sun May 15, 2011 12:49 am

Your silence speaks volumes D4, still awaiting to be enlightened

by Bob Sun May 15, 2011 7:47 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:Martinez has made the most of the middleweight division being light on talent.

I could still see Marg giving him problems at light-middle.

Can you imagine what a Benn, Eubank, Hagler, Nunn, Toney, McCallum, Hopkins or RJJ would deal with Martinez?

And? You've listed fighters over the last 30 years at the weight that would beat him. What fighter is currently so goo we can't do the same? Wlad? Cunningham? Pascal? Ward? Cotto? Pacquiao? Bradley?

You get the idea?

The difference between the two fighters then was experience. Granite chinned swarmers are a difficult fighter to deal with when lacking experience. Martinez admits he now plants his feet a lot more, particularly post Cintron. Coupled with the fact that Marg is shot, and Sergio is now much bigger, stronger and fitter he would smash Marg to bits inside eight rounds.

by D4thincarnation Sun May 15, 2011 8:12 pm

Bob wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:Martinez has made the most of the middleweight division being light on talent.

I could still see Marg giving him problems at light-middle.

Can you imagine what a Benn, Eubank, Hagler, Nunn, Toney, McCallum, Hopkins or RJJ would deal with Martinez?

And? You've listed fighters over the last 30 years at the weight that would beat him. What fighter is currently so goo we can't do the same? Wlad? Cunningham? Pascal? Ward? Cotto? Pacquiao? Bradley?

You get the idea?

Middleweight is a weak division, and there is one fight what we can't do the same with.

So the only thing that has change in Martinez is his size and experience.

Martinez could well get found out if he stops chasing welters and steps up to supermiddle.

Margarito put down a blue print on how to beat him.

The difference between the two fighters then was experience. Granite chinned swarmers are a difficult fighter to deal with when lacking experience. Martinez admits he now plants his feet a lot more, particularly post Cintron. Coupled with the fact that Marg is shot, and Sergio is now much bigger, stronger and fitter he would smash Marg to bits inside eight rounds.

by Bob Sun May 15, 2011 8:34 pm

"So the only thing that has change in Martinez is his size and experience.

Martinez could well get found out if he stops chasing welters and steps up to supermiddle.

Margarito put down a blue print on how to beat him."

One minute you're talking about a blueprint of how to beat him based on a welterweight fight, the next you're telling him to stop chasing welterweights and jump up and fight at super middle?

And as for this blueprint b0llocks, Do you think Thompson set a blueprint for beating Haye? Mitchell for Hopkins? Toorecampo for Manny?

Experience is critical for a cerebral fighter like Martinez. He is a perfectionist who is always improving.

And the chasing welters? I presume you mean Manny and Floyd? He does right. Both claim to have been champions at 154lbs. Martinez would fight them at a weight at which they were champions. I suppose they were just paper champions who benefitted from a weak division (true). What does 168 have to do with anything?

You enter dangerous territory by stating Martinez has no challenges at 160lbs, so should move up to where there is one. Manny has no challenges at 147lbs. Should he move up and face the P4P number two? What's the diference?

by coxy0001 Sun May 15, 2011 8:42 pm

What has changed?

Do you want me to answer that?

For starters he stands taller and doesn't "duck" under and off balance. He rolls punches using a far far far different stance and defensive technique. He throws shorter punches with more power as he's better set.... etc etc etc etc

Every boxer will display traits from when they first started. I still hold a golf club with a very very strong top hand grip - same applies to every sportsman with their traits. Fact is he's an infinately better fighter now, he was what - 20 fights into his career? Without any amateur experience? He wouldn't just beat Marg now, he'd potentially kill him

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Mon May 16, 2011 9:13 am

Bob wrote:"So the only thing that has change in Martinez is his size and experience.

Martinez could well get found out if he stops chasing welters and steps up to supermiddle.

Margarito put down a blue print on how to beat him."

One minute you're talking about a blueprint of how to beat him based on a welterweight fight, the next you're telling him to stop chasing welterweights and jump up and fight at super middle?

And as for this blueprint b0llocks, Do you think Thompson set a blueprint for beating Haye? Mitchell for Hopkins? Toorecampo for Manny?

Experience is critical for a cerebral fighter like Martinez. He is a perfectionist who is always improving.

And the chasing welters? I presume you mean Manny and Floyd? He does right. Both claim to have been champions at 154lbs. Martinez would fight them at a weight at which they were champions. I suppose they were just paper champions who benefitted from a weak division (true). What does 168 have to do with anything?

You enter dangerous territory by stating Martinez has no challenges at 160lbs, so should move up to where there is one. Manny has no challenges at 147lbs. Should he move up and face the P4P number two? What's the diference?

Well put.

I was going to do a long reply until I seen this.

Think D4 is a little weary of Martinez.

by D4thincarnation Mon May 16, 2011 12:33 pm

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
Bob wrote:"So the only thing that has change in Martinez is his size and experience.

Martinez could well get found out if he stops chasing welters and steps up to supermiddle.

Margarito put down a blue print on how to beat him."

One minute you're talking about a blueprint of how to beat him based on a welterweight fight, the next you're telling him to stop chasing welterweights and jump up and fight at super middle?

And as for this blueprint b0llocks, Do you think Thompson set a blueprint for beating Haye? Mitchell for Hopkins? Toorecampo for Manny?

Experience is critical for a cerebral fighter like Martinez. He is a perfectionist who is always improving.

And the chasing welters? I presume you mean Manny and Floyd? He does right. Both claim to have been champions at 154lbs. Martinez would fight them at a weight at which they were champions. I suppose they were just paper champions who benefitted from a weak division (true). What does 168 have to do with anything?

You enter dangerous territory by stating Martinez has no challenges at 160lbs, so should move up to where there is one. Manny has no challenges at 147lbs. Should he move up and face the P4P number two? What's the diference?

Well put. I was going to do a long reply until I seen this.

Think D4 is a little weary of Martinez.

Why should I be weary of Martinez for?

He needs to fight some big fights, so he has to step up to super middle.

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Mon May 16, 2011 1:37 pm

D4thincarnation wrote:
Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
Bob wrote:"So the only thing that has change in Martinez is his size and experience.

Martinez could well get found out if he stops chasing welters and steps up to supermiddle.

Margarito put down a blue print on how to beat him."

One minute you're talking about a blueprint of how to beat him based on a welterweight fight, the next you're telling him to stop chasing welterweights and jump up and fight at super middle?

And as for this blueprint b0llocks, Do you think Thompson set a blueprint for beating Haye? Mitchell for Hopkins? Toorecampo for Manny?

Experience is critical for a cerebral fighter like Martinez. He is a perfectionist who is always improving.

And the chasing welters? I presume you mean Manny and Floyd? He does right. Both claim to have been champions at 154lbs. Martinez would fight them at a weight at which they were champions. I suppose they were just paper champions who benefitted from a weak division (true). What does 168 have to do with anything?

You enter dangerous territory by stating Martinez has no challenges at 160lbs, so should move up to where there is one. Manny has no challenges at 147lbs. Should he move up and face the P4P number two? What's the diference?

Well put. I was going to do a long reply until I seen this.

Think D4 is a little weary of Martinez.

Why should I be weary of Martinez for?

He needs to fight some big fights, so he has to step up to super middle.

When he is more of an natural light middle and he's already jumped up recently?

Pac needs a big fight, why doesnt he step up and fight Martinez at 154? How do you see that one panning out?

by D4thincarnation Mon May 16, 2011 1:39 pm

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
D4thincarnation wrote:
Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
Bob wrote:"So the only thing that has change in Martinez is his size and experience.

Martinez could well get found out if he stops chasing welters and steps up to supermiddle.

Margarito put down a blue print on how to beat him."

One minute you're talking about a blueprint of how to beat him based on a welterweight fight, the next you're telling him to stop chasing welterweights and jump up and fight at super middle?

And as for this blueprint b0llocks, Do you think Thompson set a blueprint for beating Haye? Mitchell for Hopkins? Toorecampo for Manny?

Experience is critical for a cerebral fighter like Martinez. He is a perfectionist who is always improving.

And the chasing welters? I presume you mean Manny and Floyd? He does right. Both claim to have been champions at 154lbs. Martinez would fight them at a weight at which they were champions. I suppose they were just paper champions who benefitted from a weak division (true). What does 168 have to do with anything?

You enter dangerous territory by stating Martinez has no challenges at 160lbs, so should move up to where there is one. Manny has no challenges at 147lbs. Should he move up and face the P4P number two? What's the diference?

Well put. I was going to do a long reply until I seen this.

Think D4 is a little weary of Martinez.

Pacquiao has jumped 10 weight classes already and get vastly outweighed at the division he is now.

Martinez is a middle, if he is that good he should step up to a division that got some talent in.

Why should I be weary of Martinez for?

He needs to fight some big fights, so he has to step up to super middle.

When he is more of an natural light middle and he's already jumped up recently?

Pac needs a big fight, why doesnt he step up and fight Martinez at 154? How do you see that one panning out?

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