Saints vs The Ospreys -HEC Round 2

First topic message reminder :

Kick-off: 12:45 local (11:45 GMT)
Venue: Franklin's Gardens
Referee: Alain Rolland (Ireland)
Assistant referees: Stuart Gaffikin (Ireland), Jonathan Peak (Ireland)
Television match official: Simon McDowell (Ireland)


Northampton: Foden; Elliott, Pisi, Luther Burrell, North; Myler, Dickson; Waller, Hartley (capt), Ma'afu, Lawes, Day, Wood, Dowson, Manoa.

Replacements: Haywood, Waller, Denman, Van Velze, Clark, Fotuali'i, Wilson, Pisi.

Ospreys: Fussell; Hassler, Bishop, Beck, Walker; Biggar, Habberfield; Bevington, Hibbard, Jones, AW Jones (capt), King, R Jones, Tipuric, Bearman.

Replacements: Baldwin, D Jones, Jarvis, Ardron, Allen, Lewis, Tebaldi, Morgan.




 

Yellow card for Biggar!

lol gives Saints a penalty for offside 5 meters out:laugh:  
You can't make it up

The Saint wrote:

Griff wrote:

Ref blamers take note!

Who's blamed the ref? Answers on a postcard if you can find any evidence for me blaming the ref. I've commented on Rolland's performance along with that of both teams.

Ospreys are out of Europe. I blame the Ospreys.

You've been saying that Rolland has been one sided. If the team was to do that, they wouldn't be able to put it right for the next game. 'Fans' should try to look at the controllables too, IMO. But the fact that you say you blame to O's sounds like we're on the same wavelength anyway, so kudos.

wales606 wrote:Feel really sorry for AWJ and Biggar, they have given everything

Don't watch must Os but they were very good. Bigger felt he had to take alot on himself

He want to SH a few times in the 2nd, Haberfield doesn't look good

It would have been closer if Rolland would have Reffed the Rucks evenly

edit - AWJ and Bigger were good, not the Os

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

The Saint wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:I don't understand this coat tail comment? Why is it a bad thing for an Englishman to support an English Club vs a foreign Club in this competition?

It's a trev thing. Yesterday Cardiff had another Irish ref who was incredibly poor and did everything he could to assist a poorly-performing Toulon. Trev was in the midst of it cheering on Toulon and applauding every single incorrect decision against Cardiff and probably dry humped the screen every time Johnny was in shot. He's doing the same again today.

I am a Wasps supporter but also follow all English clubs against foreign ones as Chequered says. I dare say I am not alone in that respect.
What I don't do is get abusive. I give the occasional dig but I call it banter there is a big difference.

Your digs are digs no matter what you personally call them. How about you clear off and let us talk rugby..?

More than happy to talk rugby but don't get stroppy because you lost today. If everyone who had a dig cleared off there wouldn't be many left including me old mate YOU!

Well done Saints totally outplayed & nothing to do with the ref. as some have said.

Saints really should have gone for the 4th try rather than the penalty on the 70th min mark. Big missed opportunity that could cost them in the end.

Can't deny Biggars work rate, commentators mentioned he made 18 tackles last week?

Ospreys are lamentably off the pace and seem to be drifting in some of the big games this season.

That's them out of the equation. Saints will be looking forward to the double header in December - one team should come out on top after that.

Griff wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Griff wrote:

Ref blamers take note!

Who's blamed the ref? Answers on a postcard if you can find any evidence for me blaming the ref. I've commented on Rolland's performance along with that of both teams.

Ospreys are out of Europe. I blame the Ospreys.

You've been saying that Rolland has been one sided. If the team was to do that, they wouldn't be able to put it right for the next game. 'Fans' should try to look at the controllables too, IMO. But the fact that you say you blame to O's sounds like we're on the same wavelength anyway, so kudos.

What is most annoying in games like this that the players are so awareness of the referees, as are the coaches. They know the refs styles, they know their interpretations. They know how to play with that referee and not against him.

Yes some very well known referees have a natural infinity with the home team but there are ways of avoiding confrontation with such personalities.

I blame the Ospreys two poor performances for their inability to win a game yet and no more. It is the IRBs job though to unify the way the game is refereed, and more has to be done in the favour of balance and consistency.

Griff wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Griff wrote:

Ref blamers take note!

Who's blamed the ref? Answers on a postcard if you can find any evidence for me blaming the ref. I've commented on Rolland's performance along with that of both teams.

Ospreys are out of Europe. I blame the Ospreys.

You've been saying that Rolland has been one sided. If the team was to do that, they wouldn't be able to put it right for the next game. 'Fans' should try to look at the controllables too, IMO. But the fact that you say you blame to O's sounds like we're on the same wavelength anyway, so kudos.

I stated that in the early stages that he began by showing bias towards the home team. His lottery decisions at the scrum for example, he decided for no particular reason they would go the way of the home team, and only decided to speak to the Ospreys front-row when Saints had commited offences there. I've clearly not blamed the ref. I've highlighted the poor performance of an official set to retire.

The Saint wrote: Yesterday Cardiff had another Irish ref who was incredibly poor and did everything he could to assist a poorly-performing Toulon.

Well, I guess we must have seen two very different matches. I felt that Blues got the decisions their way more often than not.

Sounds like Tandy was annoyed with Rolland too. It's not just me then.

any way, desperately poor by Ospreys today

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

The Saint wrote: Yesterday Cardiff had another Irish ref who was incredibly poor and did everything he could to assist a poorly-performing Toulon.

Well, I guess we must have seen two very different matches. I felt that Blues got the decisions their way more often than not.

Yeah a late charge on Robinson let go. Halfpenny stands his ground and ref awards Toulon 3 points. Ref refuses to YC Armitage for cyncial play in the red zone (hands in the ruck). You're spot on.

Slightly one eyed view there.

For me toulon were porr and unadventurous, but another ref would have penalised Blues off the park at scrum time - and for hands in the ruck - well blues were at it every single breakdown. If the ref lets you - then great - but to then complain about the opposition doing it is a bit silly.

And "red zone"!! Anyone using that term should be made to live in Alabama. Including the commentators.

The Ospreys have little to complain about they know Rowland is a poor ref and gives them very little, they should get the ball away from contact and thee scrums, did not turn up and Fussell should be put out to grass. Well done saints good intensity, the forwards won the game the backs look poor considering the armcchair ride the forwards gave them.

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

The Saint wrote: Yesterday Cardiff had another Irish ref who was incredibly poor and did everything he could to assist a poorly-performing Toulon.

Well, I guess we must have seen two very different matches. I felt that Blues got the decisions their way more often than not.

with you there viet. that awful scrum towards the end of ydays blues game was a bit of a shocker. toulon penalised for shocking blues scrum weakness and technique? what? could have changed course of the match that single decision.

Not quite sure what the difference between 'being one-sided' and 'showing bias towards the home team' is but nvm.

as in - he would have been happy for the ref to be one-sided, as long as he wasnt showing bias towards the home team?  

Some very strange substitutions again this weekend, I cant understand why you would take off players like A Jones, R Jones and Bearman around the 50 mark when the replacements are not in their league baffles me.

Jarvis looked good. R.Jones has been brought back in too soon.

The Ospreys have little to complain about they know Rowland is a poor ref and gives them very little, they should get the ball away from contact and thee scrums, did not turn up and Fussell should be put out to grass. Well done saints good intensity, the forwards won the game the backs look poor considering the armcchair ride the forwards gave them.

Coat-tailers are out in force now. Like I said earlier, it won't take long for you to vanish. I seem to remember it happening not too long ago after Northampton were dealt with by Scarlets and Munster . Try and support your own lads, stop latching on because you hate the (Welsh) opposition.

The Saint wrote:Coat-tailers are out in force now. Like I said earlier, it won't take long for you to vanish. I seem to remember it happening not too long ago after Northampton were dealt with by Scarlets and Munster . Try and support your own lads, stop latching on because you hate the (Welsh) opposition.

   

The Saint wrote:Coat-tailers are out in force now. Like I said earlier, it won't take long for you to vanish. I seem to remember it happening not too long ago after Northampton were dealt with by Scarlets and Munster . Try and support your own lads, stop latching on because you hate the (Welsh) opposition.

Talking of coat-trailers who will you follow in the Quarters Saint??

I'll likely observe as a neutral, as I did today.

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

The Saint wrote:Coat-tailers are out in force now. Like I said earlier, it won't take long for you to vanish. I seem to remember it happening not too long ago after Northampton were dealt with by Scarlets and Munster . Try and support your own lads, stop latching on because you hate the (Welsh) opposition.

   

68 years on Earth and you still can't construct an arguement.  

I thought a decent win by Saints today. But, as a Saints supporter and I have my on-going concerns about my team.  Saints have this unfortunate trend to go to sleep in parts of matches and lose steam off their attack.  I have mentioned this for the past few years and today was another example.  In the middle 20 or 30 minutes I felt Saints did not react well to Ospreys stepping up their aggression on attack and defense.  This drove me nuts, although that is admittedly a short drive.  

Rolland, at times, does tend to give the benefit of the doubt to home teams.  But I thought Saints established themselves as better and more physical at the breakdown early in the match.  And maintained it mostly throughout.  Unfortunately, Saints lost the ball a few times when they were late to the breakdown.  

I am generally happy with the forwards, but are disappointed Saints lost one of our own scrums (was it two?).  Dowson showed his value with good smart play.  I thought Hartley, Manoa, Dowson were good, Lawes and Wood very good.  Stevie Myler was fine and his kicking was great.  Saints got the ball to North more but not so much in space, and that needs to improve.  Foden was his usual smart and assured self.  Pisi and Burrell made some poor decisions which cost possession or killed momentum.

It seemed Ospreys had plenty of ball but somehow seemed to get less from it.  For the obvious reasons I was paying less attention to Ospreys players than my own, but I am always impressed by Adam Jones and Alun Wyn Jones.  Biggar was very energetic, and I would have thought Ospreys would try to get Eli Walker the ball more. I think this lad has a lot of talent.

Overall, I thought a deserved win and not a bad performance by Saints, but they will need to step it up for the next round against Leinster.  Hoping for the Green, Gold and Black................

Given the pool, I think they could rue going for 3 points rather than the bonus point when 24-16 up.

markb wrote:Given the pool, I think they could rue going for 3 points rather than the bonus point when 24-16 up.

Maybe. Though perhaps securing the win first is a sensible choice.

The Saint wrote:

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

The Saint wrote:Coat-tailers are out in force now. Like I said earlier, it won't take long for you to vanish. I seem to remember it happening not too long ago after Northampton were dealt with by Scarlets and Munster . Try and support your own lads, stop latching on because you hate the (Welsh) opposition.

   

68 years on Earth and you still can't construct an arguement.  

Well I decided you would probably understand pictures more than words.

Perhaps.

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

markb wrote:Given the pool, I think they could rue going for 3 points rather than the bonus point when 24-16 up.

Maybe. Though perhaps securing the win first is a sensible choice.

I agree.  I think Saints wanted a double-digit lead.  Ospreys are too good to assume they are out of it with 10 minutes to go.  Extend the lead, then take the last 10 minutes to go for the fourth try.  If there were only a few minutes to go, then I think Saints would have gone for the try.

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

markb wrote:Given the pool, I think they could rue going for 3 points rather than the bonus point when 24-16 up.

Maybe. Though perhaps securing the win first is a sensible choice.

In general yes, but they were already 2 scores ahead, the penalty was close to the tryline, so finding touch within 5m was a given and their lineout and drive had been working really well. With Leinster in your group and 2 wins under their belt you've got to go for those sort of kill moments.

I get your point. And I agree every possible point in this pool will be critical. But not Mallinder's way. Hope the pool is not decided by that one point - or I guess I owe you a beer.

Ha, ha.  Yeah, I hope it doesn't either, though I think BPs will end up deciding this pool or at least the possibility of a runner-up place.  I think Saints & Leinster will win their home games against each other in the double-header and Saints in Wales and Leinster in France could go either way (though I suspect Castres will be a bit stronger at home than Ospreys if they haven't already given up on the HC in favour of the Top14 by January as French sides sometimes do).  On the plus side, although Leinster have the 2 wins they don't have a BP from any of those.

Lose the lineout and then some mazy running from Eli Walker and the lead is down to 1pt and squeaky bum time.

I am old fashioned I guess and feel you respect you opponents and take the points offered until you are at least two full scores clear.

After all I still remember the Blues/Leicester semi-final. Most people remember little more than the penalty shoot out - but the stand out memory for me is still the two tries in as many minutes scored by Blues right at the end that brought them level.

Certainly possible Viet, but the way Saints were playing, particularly at the lineout and the driving maul, I think with a two score cushion you've got to take that chance if you want to top your pool, as pool runner-up qualifiers rarely win their away QF.

All that said, if Biggar didn't play the ball on the ground and keep it from coming out right at the end, Saints had a good chance to score the 4th try right then.

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

The Saint wrote:

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

The Saint wrote:Coat-tailers are out in force now. Like I said earlier, it won't take long for you to vanish. I seem to remember it happening not too long ago after Northampton were dealt with by Scarlets and Munster . Try and support your own lads, stop latching on because you hate the (Welsh) opposition.

   

68 years on Earth and you still can't construct an arguement.  

Well I decided you would probably understand pictures more than words.

Perhaps.

If you're going to poke at sombody else's comments though you should at least be able to construct an answer as to why you have done that. I can't help but feel the world has moved on from what you know.

Quite true doc, could have been a last minute BP like Tigers the other day. As I said, I just hope their progression doesn't come down to not committing to the BP earlier in the game. Last year demonstrated again that there are such fine margins in getting through to the knock-out stages.

Perhaps I am just senile - who knows.

I actually felt your post was needlessly insulting, and done purely for effect. Perhaps you mean what you say, but it looks just like attention seeking to me. The bit that really got my goat though was playing the nationalist card of "because you hate the welsh". But you know what, you are young and you now have the chance to create a world that reflects you - perhaps you will do a better job of it than me and my generation did.

Don't worry we will. We're post Thatcher . Comments on this forum certainly reflect an anti-welsh view. They always have done ever since I signed up back in 2008.

markb wrote:Certainly possible Viet, but the way Saints were playing, particularly at the lineout and the driving maul, I think with a two score cushion you've got to take that chance if you want to top your pool, as pool runner-up qualifiers rarely win their away QF.

As I said, I am old fashioned. Protect what you have - because some bugger will always try and steal it.

In the end we will never know what may have happened - so we can have fun debating. I have to say that based on what I have seen from Saints over the years, they are rather averse to taking risks - so I never really expect them to. Equally I am not sure 1 point will make much difference - as having won in Wales, Leinster should be firm favourites for this group.

The Saint wrote:Don't worry we will. We're post Thatcher . Comments on this forum certainly reflect an anti-welsh view. They always have done ever since I signed up back in 2008.

Well I would reckon NZ fans reckon this place is anti them.
Ditto for Saffers and the English.

To be honest, when you have been shot at by people on 4 different continents - insults from a minority of people you will never meet are nothing to worry about.

Have to say i thought Rolland was a bit of a homer today but take nothing away from Saints whose physicality will really challenge Leinster. That could be a cracker.

I commented weeks ago when the Ospreys named the side to play Ulster that they were overusing their Lions this early in the season and i stand by it. Adam Jones doesnt look right and despite the fact they are excellent players i dont think any of Tipuric, AWJ, Hibbard or indeed Evans have looked sharp. They need to rotate some of those guys.

Standulstermen wrote:
I commented weeks ago when the Ospreys named the side to play Ulster that they were overusing their Lions this early in the season and i stand by it. Adam Jones doesnt look right and despite the fact they are excellent players i dont think any of Tipuric, AWJ, Hibbard or indeed Evans have looked sharp. They need to rotate some of those guys.

They will probably get a rest from playing next week - but after that it is 4 weeks of international duty - then head to heads with Castres.

tough times.

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

markb wrote:Certainly possible Viet, but the way Saints were playing, particularly at the lineout and the driving maul, I think with a two score cushion you've got to take that chance if you want to top your pool, as pool runner-up qualifiers rarely win their away QF.

As I said, I am old fashioned. Protect what you have - because some bugger will always try and steal it.

In the end we will never know what may have happened - so we can have fun debating. I have to say that based on what I have seen from Saints over the years, they are rather averse to taking risks - so I never really expect them to. Equally I am not sure 1 point will make much difference - as having won in Wales, Leinster should be firm favourites for this group.

They are, but far from out of the question for Saints to also win in Wales, particularly if Ospreys think they're already out of the HC by January and that it's best to throw the kitchen sink away at Ulster in the PRO12 the week before whilst Ulster have an eye on Montpellier the following week.

And as I said, given that last year Munster made the QFs but Leinster went down to the Amlin with the same points but less tries scored, BPs could make all the difference in terms of progressing one way or another.

VietGwentRevisited wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:
I commented weeks ago when the Ospreys named the side to play Ulster that they were overusing their Lions this early in the season and i stand by it. Adam Jones doesnt look right and despite the fact they are excellent players i dont think any of Tipuric, AWJ, Hibbard or indeed Evans have looked sharp. They need to rotate some of those guys.

They will probably get a rest from playing next week - but after that it is 4 weeks of international duty - then head to heads with Castres.

tough times.

AKA 4 weeks of Yawnsville, Arizona. The AIs just don't do it for me i'm afraid.

Cardiff Dave wrote:AKA 4 weeks of Yawnsville, Arizona. The AIs just don't do it for me i'm afraid.

I would not go any where near that far - but I do see where you are coming from.

Meetings with SH opposition used to be a rare occurrence and all the more special for it. We meet Australia for the umpteenth time in 2 years and that familiarity breeds staleness and ennui. I know we won't see tours like the amateur days when just one team would visit playing club sides, provinces and all 4 B&I countries. In clubhouses in Munster, Llanelli, Ottley they still cherish those days and famous wins.

Disappointed that Saints couldn't quite get the bonus-point try today. They were in control for the majority of the game (Ospreys occasionally dangerous on counter though).

Impressed by Biggar. Quality kicker and found a few gaps today. He's a strong lad and doesn't lack confidence (more controlled now).

Saints may rue that missed point. Ospreys pretty much out now.

Big games for Lawes, Hartley and Wood. Great news for England.