Rugby League in NZ

by MotelMoneyMurderMadness Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:45 pm

We are often told that every kid in NZ grows up wanting to be an All Black. Clearly not as I'm just enjoying the Kiwi v Samoa match and was wondering just how popular RL is in NZ. League is very much a working class game with its strongholds restricted to Northern England. Is it similar in NZ? For example more popular around Auckland yet not so popular say in Wellington?

by MotelMoneyMurderMadness Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:01 pm

Done a bit of digging on the web and RL is very popular amongst the Island community in the Auckland area and the 4th most popular sport in NZ after RU, netball and cricket.

by GloriousEmpire Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:09 pm

Rugby league is seen as a bit of a simple mans game in NZ. It's the closest thing we have to a class system.

by MotelMoneyMurderMadness Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:12 pm

So GE is it class based? Do working class kids in Auckland want to be a Kiwi not an All Black?

by GloriousEmpire Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:13 pm

Nah. They generally find their calling.

by tigerleghorn Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:15 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:Nah. They generally find their calling.

From way across the Pacific!

by Taylorman Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:37 pm

league is big in the heavily pacific and some maori populated areas. In Wellington Wainuiomata is particularly strong where the pubs and clubs will watch a live Warriors match ahead of an AB test match on at the same time. In saying that theres a healthy respect between the two. As with most League national sides this way their stremgth comes from those in the NRL. Recently Auckland union youngsters are being poached by the u20 comp.

Personally I think the pro rugby scene is finally starting to peel back League. Interesting comment from Willie Mason who said in hindsight he should have played rugby... more money and just not as hard on the body.

by Taylorman Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:48 pm

SBW- obviously not used to the short dead ball lines in League...back to Union with you...

by Guest Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:07 pm

How can league we 4th behind netball? Netball can't be taking men away from league, surely?

by GloriousEmpire Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:56 pm

Well it's full contact combat netball in NZ.

by whocares Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:36 pm

And I thought netball was primarely a form of basketball for woman!

by aucklandlaurie Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:00 am

I think the unique thing abot the two rugby codes in Auckland is the way that players (and coaches) hop between codes.

Many well known rugby players had a quite a few of their formative years in the 13 man code. and many went on to become Internationals not only for New Zealand but for many other Countries as well.

by **rodders** Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:29 am

Tana Umaga cut his teeth in League didn't he? Would he be one of those simple types?..... Wink

by dummy_half Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:03 pm

Taylorman wrote:SBW- obviously not used to the short dead ball lines in League...back to Union with you...

One to add to the top 3 blown tries ever. Only out-classed by Dominici's inept swan dive and this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gpzFZadcQ
Couldn't resist Very Happy

by MotelMoneyMurderMadness Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:08 pm

But to be fair to SBW he did seem to lose his footing and slip. Anyway it was a great game to watch. In particular the second half with the Samoan comeback. Would it be fair to say a large chunk of the Kiwi side is of Samoan heritage?

Also Mose Mosoe is a unit and a half...

by kingraf Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:51 pm

My English teacher once convinced me and the gents to join her forma night of....

Action netball. it was fun until her 6'0 100kg frame collided with my jaw.
#TKO

by MotelMoneyMurderMadness Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:37 pm

6ft and 15st....I can picture her now. She wasnt called Miss Trunchbull from Crunchem Hall was she?

by GloriousEmpire Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:51 pm

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:But to be fair to SBW he did seem to lose his footing and slip. Anyway it was a great game to watch. In particular the second half with the Samoan comeback. Would it be fair to say a large chunk of the Kiwi side is of Samoan heritage?

Also Mose Mosoe is a unit and a half...

Like rugby union almost all of the Samoan side is of NZ heritage...

by kingraf Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:58 pm

No... she was called by her actual name... that's how intimidating she was, didn't even get an insulting nickname! Was a lot prettier than Ms. Trunchbull, though. Quite attractive, if you like pretty faces with massive calves, breasts, and arms.

All I remember is jumping up for an interception, and looking up and like massive epiphany, it hit me.

Netball is a fun sport, though, it just irritated everyone that we hit basketball-esque jump shots, instead of one handed dibbly dobblers.

by MotelMoneyMurderMadness Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:16 pm

GE I wasn't looking to kick off the whole NZ/Island relationship thing. I know enough to know there is a large population of people of Island heritage who call NZ home just as Manu, Billy and Mako now call England home.

by GloriousEmpire Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:29 pm

Not quite the same thing. But whatever.

by MotelMoneyMurderMadness Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:37 pm

Maybe not. Anyway, I've dug some info up myself which has answered my question and I'll do that next time instead of asking.

by tigerleghorn Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:59 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:
MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:But to be fair to SBW he did seem to lose his footing and slip. Anyway it was a great game to watch. In particular the second half with the Samoan comeback. Would it be fair to say a large chunk of the Kiwi side is of Samoan heritage?

Also Mose Mosoe is a unit and a half...
Like rugby union almost all of the Samoan side is of NZ heritage...

That's interesting GE, New Zealand Rugby League high performance manager Tony Kemp said this

“It’s World Cup year,” he says. “The Cook Islands, Tonga and Samoa want the strongest team possible. If you look through our team, we have a raft of Polynesian players so their heritage is being challenged but, as far as we are concerned, these guys want to play for New Zealand. They are currently New Zealanders.”

Source Islands Business http://www.islandsbusiness.com/2013/4/sport/tug-of-war-over-pacific-talent/

So Islanders go to play for New Zealand and New Zealanders go to play for Samoa?

by GloriousEmpire Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:19 pm

Do you know what Polynesian means?

I think you've completely misinterpreted what he said.

Polynesia = grouping of culturally aligned islands in the pacific. It INCLUDES New Zealand. Get it?

I guess its easy to make such a mistake when you're predisposed to what you want to read, eh?

by blackcanelion Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:38 am

Few thoughts:

Re Polynesian representation. There is some debate as to whether the connection is location based (i.e. poorer working class suburbs in Auckland and wellington) or a function of culture and genetics. In Wellington for instance we have 8 league clubs and I think about 18 union clubs. The league clubs are concentrated in the Hutt Valley and Porirua. These tend to be more working class and a higher percentage of the population is Polynesian.

NZ league started in 1905. The players returning started up clubs. League clubs locations tended to reflect where the players came from (mostly Auckland). League initially struggled (lack of clubs and grounds). With many of their top players unavailable (due to club commitments in the UK) they struggled internationally as well.The big boost came in the seventies and eighties with full professionalism in Australia and air travel. The 1990's saw the first NZ professional club. Since then we have had a school competition, a professional junior squad at the warriors, high school kids under contract to Australian clubs or o sports scholorships in Australia and now increasing targeting of high school union talent.

The side is essentially based on NZ players and Australian players with NZ heritage. Here's a few figures.
24 players in the NZ league squad.
1 player born in the island Tuivasa-Shek (moved here at the age of 2)
4 players born in Australia
19 players born in NZ
12 Players grew up in Australia (at least three on scholarships)
12 players grew up in NZ
6 players grew up playing rugby union (more played union and league)
17 players playing in Australian clubs
18 players with Polynesian heritage (e.g. some Samoan, Tongan, Maori) (this is a quick estimate).
A number of players qualify for other nations due to leagues eligibility rules.

by rainbow-warrior Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:25 am

Lads, lads, lads. You may as well not bring this up again. There are a few things that New Zealand folk will never agree with despite the facts being there, even when the evidence is put on the table by the people who waved the might NZ $$$$$ in front of the PI players. It's like saying there were other cultures in NZ before Maori, masses of evidence to prove this, undeniable evidence at that. It is like telling a North Korean that there is better lifestyles elsewhere Smile

by aucklandlaurie Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:39 am

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:So GE is it class based? Do working class kids in Auckland want to be a Kiwi not an All Black?

Ask Sonny Bill.

by blackcanelion Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:02 am

MMMM,
Here's some links.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZn2PZFB64M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arBxidYbwIM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dosPWRkrW6c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt8GRqHhaI4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULFFhTD-fvg

by MotelMoneyMurderMadness Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:30 am

Thanks BC I appreciate the time you've taken to get this together. Very interesting and impressive stuff.

Are the youngsters attending Keebra being on scholarships and is this a case of Aussies looking to poach? Some very talented kids. Likewise with the lads at St Pauls.

I noticed pretty much all the lads were Polynesian but then this would tie in with your earlier statement about socio economic groupings. The posher kids play RU then as in England?

I really was surprised by the stat about NZ providing 30% of the players in the NRL but totally amazed that you have to endure Corrie on the telly too.

Also forgot how simply awesome Jonah was...

by tigerleghorn Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:43 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:Do you know what Polynesian means?

I think you've completely misinterpreted what he said.

Polynesia = grouping of culturally aligned islands in the pacific. It INCLUDES New Zealand. Get it?

I guess its easy to make such a mistake when you're predisposed to what you want to read, eh?

Really? then why did the NZ coach say "If you look through our team, we have a raft of Polynesian players so their heritage is being challenged"
if their culture included NZ get it? picard

by blackcanelion Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:18 pm

MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:Thanks BC I appreciate the time you've taken to get this together. Very interesting and impressive stuff.

Are the youngsters attending Keebra being on scholarships and is this a case of Aussies looking to poach? Some very talented kids. Likewise with the lads at St Pauls.

I noticed pretty much all the lads were Polynesian but then this would tie in with your earlier statement about socio economic groupings. The posher kids play RU then as in England?

I really was surprised by the stat about NZ providing 30% of the players in the NRL but totally amazed that you have to endure Corrie on the telly too.

Also forgot how simply awesome Jonah was...

Not quite the same as the UK. My take on it that the areas that traditionally have league clubs are often in poorer areas. having said that union cuts right across the board. I'd guess the majority of professional rugby players are from working class backgrounds.

Where we are in Wellington there aren't any league clubs. The kids down the road have a cousin who's a recent kiwi captain and would play league if the choice was there. Our club has a high percentage of pacific islanders (my sons coach last year captained Tonga). My thoughts are location/opportunity is the biggest factor followed by elements of culture and money.

Bear in mind I've had pretty limited exposure to the game.
My neighbor I grew up with was a well known union player who converted to the NRL for cash.
One the kids I went to school with boy is his first year in 1st grade in the NRL. He started off playing union but changed to league when the family moved to south Auckland. I've got a couple of extended family members who have just retired. They both played league as young kids. One went to boarding school and played rugby (super 12) the other played league.

The other thing in NZ at the moment is that we know have non academic kids at school to 18. Many schools have a senior sports program where the kids train for sport. What do these kids do when they leave. Only a few get contracts.

by doctor_grey Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:35 pm

dummy_half wrote:
Taylorman wrote:SBW- obviously not used to the short dead ball lines in League...back to Union with you...
One to add to the top 3 blown tries ever. Only out-classed by Dominici's inept swan dive and this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gpzFZadcQ
Couldn't resist

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Can't imagine anyone would mind seeing Carling get his due, little snot that he is.

Legal Disclaimer: There is no positive medical or physiological evidence that Carling is actually comprised of mucus. This is only conjecture and not proven through pathology. There may be anecdotal evidence, testimony from many people, but is not sufficient to make a positive correlation.

by GloriousEmpire Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:38 pm

tigerleghorn wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:Do you know what Polynesian means?

I think you've completely misinterpreted what he said.

Polynesia = grouping of culturally aligned islands in the pacific. It INCLUDES New Zealand. Get it?

I guess its easy to make such a mistake when you're predisposed to what you want to read, eh?
Really? then why did the NZ coach say "If you look through our team, we have a raft of Polynesian players so their heritage is being challenged"
if their culture included NZ get it?

Wow you are REALLY obtuse. How about just read it a few times until the penny drops.

by blackcanelion Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:10 am

blackcanelion wrote:
MotelMoneyMurderMadness wrote:Thanks BC I appreciate the time you've taken to get this together. Very interesting and impressive stuff.

Are the youngsters attending Keebra being on scholarships and is this a case of Aussies looking to poach? Some very talented kids. Likewise with the lads at St Pauls.

I noticed pretty much all the lads were Polynesian but then this would tie in with your earlier statement about socio economic groupings. The posher kids play RU then as in England?

I really was surprised by the stat about NZ providing 30% of the players in the NRL but totally amazed that you have to endure Corrie on the telly too.

Also forgot how simply awesome Jonah was...
Not quite the same as the UK. My take on it that the areas that traditionally have league clubs are often in poorer areas. having said that union cuts right across the board. I'd guess the majority of professional rugby players are from working class backgrounds.

Where we are in Wellington there aren't any league clubs. The kids down the road have a cousin who's a recent kiwi captain and would play league if the choice was there. Our club has a high percentage of pacific islanders (my sons coach last year captained Tonga). My thoughts are location/opportunity is the biggest factor followed by elements of culture and money.

I feel it's a mixed bag. Bear in mind I've had pretty limited exposure to the game. Knowledge is limited to people I know rather than my own experience. e.g.
My neighbor I grew up with was a well known union player who converted to the NRL for cash.
One the kids I went to school with boy is his first year in 1st grade in the NRL. He started off playing union but changed to league when the family moved to south Auckland. I've got a couple of extended family members who have just retired. They both played league as young kids. One went to boarding school and played rugby (super 12) the other played league.

The other thing in NZ at the moment is that we know have non academic kids at school to 18. Many schools have a senior sports program where the kids train for sport. What do these kids do when they leave. Only a few get contracts. League at the money offers more money at a younger age. I can see the attraction.

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