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When is an amateur not an amateur seems to be a question that is raised ever more frequently these days.  We are used to the tale of college kids getting the best coaches, full time practice, access to experts in areas such as fitness and club/ball technology, which renders them pro's in all but the pay cheque.

There seems to be a new way to become a pseudo pro even before you set foot on a college campus and that is receiving a large donation from the son of the owner of a manufacturer.  Peter Uihlein - the son of Acushnet's CEO - and current European tour player has donated £10,000 to the Scottish Golf Union.  Which is all well and good but he has stipulated it is solely for the development of one players career.  That player is  Bradley Neil with whom U-line played with in the Dunhill links.

This seems odd as I thought amateurs were unable to promote or be associated financially with individuals or companies?

Is this a step too far and should the authorities intervene and prevent this payment before we see many more backhanders from the manufactures to the top amateurs.  As I mentioned, in many cases top amateurs already have the same access to tour vans as the pro's but this is more than just using clubs it seems to be a sweetener for the day the player turns pro.  And presumably signs with the company that paid for his amateur career.

What do you guys make of this and what should be done?

In general does something need to be done to preserve the amateur game?

Could we see the day where top junior/college golf has to be separated from what we traditionally thought of as the amateur game? i.e the gary wolstenholme type players.

Amateurs haven't been amateurs for years Mac,
these guys are virtual pro's, most on national teams taken away to SA and Dubai over winter.
I've known a few "amateurs" who have tried to make it and fail or simply can't make enough money and end up doing a real job.  You need major financial backing.
Mind you, it's the same in every sport these days.


Up early today Mac, blow up doll kick you out of bed?

Bradley is a member at my club. Great player. I thought it was a great gesture by Peter. I do think a lot of good amateurs struggle for money when mum and dad aren't loaded. The SGU do a good job, happy to see all the good young players taken away in the winter to SA and Abu Dhabi etc, to help them improve, but money is so important. He helped Peter to second in the team event too, so not sure if Peter got money for this, but they seemed to get on really well. Nice touch I thought.

I've seen him a few times, and having played in front of him at an event can vouch he's a great player, but I hear he's got a reputation for being a bit of a man sausage, can you confirm Spaceman?

Odd one this as in most sports now there is a seamless change from being amateur to being a pro. Rugby is a pretty new professional sport but you can work your way up from paying to play to being paid and all the shades in there with no problem to jump up and down.

Obviously rugby is a team sport so the top pro clubs have academies who look after the players before they become full time pros. Golf is obviously individual so less groups with a vested interest to invest in youth. Would this mean less players are able to try and make their living by playing as it would be more down to individual benefactors rather than unions?

But then when a player turns pro he/she needs some pretty serious cash behind them to fund them to begin with.

Maybe tennis is a better example where I don't think that there is a demarcation but you play tournaments and as you get better the purses get bigger.

Is the idea of having professionals and amateurs a relic of a bygone era? There are very few players who stay as amateurs but things like the Walker Cup are just part of the process to being a 'pro'?

super_realist wrote:I've seen him a few times, and having played in front of him at an event can vouch he's a great player, but I hear he's got a reputation for being a bit of a man sausage, can you confirm Spaceman?

Ha Ha! No not heard that! No he's a good lad, played a bit with him when he was younger, little bugger used to take pro v's off me on the putting green. Think he is good friends with Ewan Scott, good rivals. Do you know him Super?

I know who he is but I don't know him. St.Andrews is a bit of a clique Spiff, so don't really get to know many of the players, nor do I really want to, a bit minky, parochial and insular in my experience, and overly Scottish, so Gael would probably like them very much. Full of people who've never left St.Andrews in their lives.

There's something really irksome though about all those National players who wear their badge emblazoned team clothes virtually everywhere.

When I read the story it seemed like a nice gesture. He has just make a donation to help home hoping forward. Don't see the issue st all.

Go over to Spain and Portugal any year, and you will see hordes of young amatuers who are trying to get on in the game, and they spend their summers 'on tour' entering any open they can get into. They hope to earn enough to keep them in cheap hotels and fast food. last year we joined up with a 2-ball who were doing this at Miraflores. They said they were playing in the open the following day so were getting a look a th the course. They were playing in opens at La Cala, Marbella and all around the Costa del Sol.

As far as I'm concerned these guys should be classed as pro's as they make a living playing golf? Not actually fair on the real am's entering these comp's is it?

Golf is so international I don't get how an amateur could do it without pseudo sponsorship? If it has to be self funding it accentuates elitism as only the rich kids could do it. Or the hugely talented players that find the miracle job that affords a good enough salary combined with enough time off to play the events (and practise).

In other sport teams hoover up the talent in the hope that they make it and sporting and commercial success follow, is golf not the same? If I were head of development at Titleist/Taylormade etc that's absolutely the route you have to take and if I were in any way talented and young that'd be the way in I'd want.

The amateurism (not sure that's the best way of putting it though!) I think being alluded to still exists, it's just that much further down the ladder. Ways and means simply have to exist for those wanting to climb the ladder and to me the luck of perhaps playing with someone willing and able in some way to fund the development is a great way.

I've been thinking about this quite a bit and think that the whole idea of amateur and professional is really very outdated. Surely we should just have an open system as it sounds pretty close to it already. There could be some sort of qualification system that decides what level of competition you could play in. They have similar schemes in rowing where you earn points for winning competitions and as you gain them you go into higher level competitions.

Students on golf scholarships in US unis are professional in all but name and even at my level I can win a few quid in the monthly medal.

The other side of the coin is that you can turn pro with a handicap of 4 and work in a pro shop but let's be honest you are not making enough money through your playing to survive so you are arguably more 'amateur' than the amateurs trailing round Europe.

It seems to date back to the era of gentlemen and players.

Most of the low "amateurs" at a club will actually be better than the "pro" a.k.a mars bar salesman at their club.

I guess the real definition of an amateur is someone who plays the sport only for the love of it. The Olympic ideal if you wish. The amateur golfers who intend to make this their career, are really doing an apprenticeship to becoming a professional golfer.