Wales vs South Africa match buildup.

First topic message reminder :

OK boys, this weekend Wales and South Africa will both attempt to begin their Autumn Internationals with a win.

Both teams for different reasons.

Wales will want to build on their Six Nations form of the last two years, they will want to confirm to themselves that the British and Irish Lions tour was won because of their players, and they will want to progress from being Northern Hemisphere kings, to a team that has the ability to beat South Africa, New Zealand and Australia.

In my view, and possibly in the view of their supporters the time is now, it has been a while since Wales has been so dominant in Europe, the only thing missing before they can call themselves world beaters is to take the next step.

How much of it is mental, how much of it is due to the fact that they struggle to put 80 minute performances together I cannot be certain of, but what I do know is they have the ability, sadly it seems Cuthbert and Roberts will not be part of what I deem as the most talented and dangerous backline in Europe. For two reasons I might add, it is the most settled back line in Europe, and also very experienced.

Since the World Cup in 2011, Wales have won 9 of their 10 Six Nations matches, undoubtedly a very good record, however their problem was the seven match losing streak in between the two Six Nations.

South Africa on the other hand, has a new coach, been there for near two full seasons and he has made a difference.

Still not yet consistent, the concern is always how will Meyer ensure that the springboks perform on a consistent basis. In the past 18 months under Heyneke Meyer the boks had their fair share of poor games.

Last year out of the twelve test matches played the springboks managed to win 7 tests, drew 2 and lost three.

Although the three tests they lost were against New Zealand (twice) and Australia, there were a number of other performances that were not up to par. England in the third test at home, Argentina in Mendoza and New Zealand at home, those were poor performances by South Africa.

Although they went through the Autumn internationals unbeaten the were less than convincing.

I suppose the positive out of the performances were even when they played poorly, they managed to be on the right side of the scoreboard most of the time.

Although South Africa has shown improvement this year, the consistency is still under question.

The one aspect of their game that has improved immeasurably is their positive approach to attacking play, looking at the number of tries scored this year in comparison to last year it makes for astounding reading, in 2012 during 12 matches South Africa managed only 23 tries, conceding 16. This year in 9 tests they have managed 39 tries, conceding 18 tries.

Only New Zealand have managed to score regular tries against SA, totalling 15 tries in the last two years, the rest of their opponents only managed 19 tries in 17 matches.

Wales during 2012 managed to score 20 tries in conceding 17 in their 13 matches. During 2013 in their seven tests to date, they managed 11 tries, conceding 7.

If South Africa continues with their positive approach  to attacking plays I believe Wales will be hard pressed, their defence will have to be up to par, there is no doubt Wales will have a positive approach to the game, so from that perspective it should be an entertaining match.

There are some questions over the selections Meyer will make, will he bring Jaque Fourie, JP Pietersen and Bakkies Botha in for the first tour match, which would add significantly to the experience of the team, or will he give debutant Pieter Steph du Toit his first cap?

Of course Willie le Roux and JJ Engelbrecht may yet be inexperienced, but in my view it would be unfair to summarily dismiss them in favour of the old hands.

Wales have a few selection issues as well, who will replace Cuthbert and Roberts, and the ultimate question, will Phillips’ disciplinary record affect his chances for selection?

I still wonder who is the best fly half in Wales.

Come what may, this match should be a tough encounter, will SA prove they have made the step up and show consistency, or will Wales make the next leap towards world domination?

Springbok team for Wales.

The Springbok team to face Wales in Cardiff is:

15. Pat Lambie 29 caps 55 points
14. JP Pietersen 48 caps 70 points
13. Jaque Fourie 69 caps 160 points
12. Jean de Villiers (captain) 93 caps 120 points
11. Bryan Habana 92 caps 265 points
10. Morné Steyn 51 caps 618 points
9. Fourie du Preez 65 caps 70 points
8. Duane Vermeulen 13 caps 5 points
7. Willem Alberts 27 caps 30 points
6. Francois Louw 25 caps 25 points
5. Flip van der Merwe 31 caps 5 points
4. Eben Etzebeth 20 caps 0 points
3. Frans Malberhe 0 caps 0 points
2. Bismarck du Plessis (v-captain) 54 caps 40 points
1. Tendai Mtawarira 50 caps 10 points
Replacements:
16. Adriaan Strauss 30 caps 25 points
17. Gurthrö Steenkamp 46 caps 30 points
18. Coenie Oosthuizen 11 caps 5 points
19. Pieter-Steph du Toit 0 caps 0 points
20. Siya Kolisi 8 caps 0 points
21. Ruan Pienaar 71 caps 130 points
22. JJ Engelbrecht 10 caps 20 points
23. Willie le Roux 9 caps 15 points

Wales team for South Africa
Wales

15 Leigh Halfpenny,
14 George North,
13 Jonathan Davies,
12 Scott Williams,
11 Eli Walker,
10 Rhys Priestland,
9 Mike Phillips,
8 Toby Faletau,
7 Sam Warburton (captain),
6 Dan Lydiate,
5 Alun Wyn Jones,
4 Bradley Davies,
3 Adam Jones,
2 Richard Hibbard,
1 Gethin Jenkins

Substitutes: 16 Ken Owens, 17 Paul James, 18 Scott Andrews, 19 Luke Charteris, 20 Justin Tipuric, 21 Lloyd Williams, 22 James Hook, 23 Liam Williams

Taylorman wrote:JDV is really talking up his side so on that basis I'm going for a bok win. Its not like him to talk his side up from what Ive seen. Suggests theyre really on a different level at the moment.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/9381947/De-Villiers-warns-Wales-of-best-shape-ever-Boks

Talking themselves up before a ball has been kicked, how arrogant. They'd look daft if they caught a bit of foot in mouth now wouldn't they...

Sound familiar?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Saint, they've all beaten SH sides since we last did. That's the point.

All record's are poor since then, just not as poor as Wales' which I can see. That wasn't the point though.

I can't be bothered reading the JDV article there, but on another I just read he apparently tells Wales that they'll do their talking solely on the pitch and the writer wrote it like we've talked ourselves up a lot? I wasn't aware we had really.

Blinking headlines.

ok...this millenium- Wales vs the SH 3:

Played 41 won 2...others:
Eng: played 49...won 20
Ire: played 31...won 6
Scot: played 28 won 4
Fra: played 43, won 13
Ita: played 24, won 0.

Thats 2 out of 43 matches the 6N sides have won this millenium. Sure a large number are Englands earlier run but some of these are recent as well.

Any way you carve the numbers up a multiple 6N winning, heavy Lions contributing and one a winning side should have more wins than that. Its almost as out of kilter as the ABs were with the world cup pre 2011.

Theyre fully capable of winning tomorrow as well, but these numbers suggest otherwise. I know there will be reasons for many of the losses but fact is now only wins will correct the situaton. Perhaps starting with tomorrow?

Risca Rev wrote:I can't be bothered reading the JDV article there, but on another I just read he apparently tells Wales that they'll do their talking solely on the pitch and the writer wrote it like we've talked ourselves up a lot? I wasn't aware we had really.

Blinking headlines.

I haven't read it either. Though, all you would have had to have done with the headline is replace SA with Wales and JDV with anyone associated now or in the past with Welsh Rugby and there'd be bloody murder on here.

Taylorman wrote:ok...this millenium- Wales vs the SH 3:

Played 41 won 2...others:
Eng: played 49...won 20
Ire: played 31...won 6
Scot: played 28 won 4
Fra: played 43, won 13
Ita: played 24, won 0.

Thats 2 out of 43 matches the 6N sides have won this millenium. Sure a large number are Englands earlier run but some of these are recent as well.

Any way you carve the numbers up a multiple 6N winning, heavy Lions contributing and one a winning side should have more wins than that. Its almost as out of kilter as the ABs were with the world cup pre 2011.

Theyre fully capable of winning tomorrow as well, but these numbers suggest otherwise. I know there will be reasons for many of the losses but fact is now only wins will correct the situaton. Perhaps starting with tomorrow?

Just a few things wrong with this. One, it's 2013? So why the Millenium? Surely stats from the past two or three years would be the most relevant as opposed to the last thirteen years... Two, the team that has won multiple 6N and contributed heavy to the Lions is a lot different to the team of thirteen years ago. The current Wales team is the most comparable to the 2011 RWC team. Three, when people rely solely on quantitive data they're just showing how little they know. So really, none of this answers what I asked you.

Still, supporting Wales and hoping for a win tomorrow none-the-less.

Taylorman wrote:ok...this millenium- Wales vs the SH 3:

Played 41 won 2...others:
Eng: played 49...won 20
Ire: played 31...won 6
Scot: played 28 won 4
Fra: played 43, won 13
Ita: played 24, won 0.

Thats 2 out of 43 matches the 6N sides have won this millenium. Sure a large number are Englands earlier run but some of these are recent as well.

Any way you carve the numbers up a multiple 6N winning, heavy Lions contributing and one a winning side should have more wins than that. Its almost as out of kilter as the ABs were with the world cup pre 2011.

Theyre fully capable of winning tomorrow as well, but these numbers suggest otherwise. I know there will be reasons for many of the losses but fact is now only wins will correct the situaton. Perhaps starting with tomorrow?

Christ, I didn't realise Wales' record was that bad against the big 3!

Interesting to think that they have a very good chance of winning the same amount in 4 weeks as they have in the last 13 years. Fingers crossed anyway!

Griff wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

The Saint wrote:Not sure what you're getting at? Just watch the Wales team play on Saturday then you can decide whether they're any good or not.

if i were gatland i would target etzebeth. he is a giant, but also an extremely loose cannon. the look in his eyes when something kicks off is scary. get him sin-binned or sent off and it would be game on. especially with the new scrum laws.

Just that qoute i seemed to find odd

Yep, that quote seems to come from Quins, an English poster  

indeed. etzebeth is the biggest strongest player on the SA side but the weakest mental link. i hardly think thats a controversial statement.

quinsforever wrote:

Griff wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

The Saint wrote:Not sure what you're getting at? Just watch the Wales team play on Saturday then you can decide whether they're any good or not.

if i were gatland i would target etzebeth. he is a giant, but also an extremely loose cannon. the look in his eyes when something kicks off is scary. get him sin-binned or sent off and it would be game on. especially with the new scrum laws.

Just that qoute i seemed to find odd

Yep, that quote seems to come from Quins, an English poster  

indeed. etzebeth is the biggest strongest player on the SA side but the weakest mental link. i hardly think thats a controversial statement.

One yellow card in 20 odd test matches hardly makes him the weakest link compared to The Bismarck who's known for his temper and dishing out retribution illegally.

Duty281 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:ok...this millenium- Wales vs the SH 3:

Played 41 won 2...others:
Eng: played 49...won 20
Ire: played 31...won 6
Scot: played 28 won 4
Fra: played 43, won 13
Ita: played 24, won 0.

Thats 2 out of 43 matches the 6N sides have won this millenium. Sure a large number are Englands earlier run but some of these are recent as well.

Any way you carve the numbers up a multiple 6N winning, heavy Lions contributing and one a winning side should have more wins than that. Its almost as out of kilter as the ABs were with the world cup pre 2011.

Theyre fully capable of winning tomorrow as well, but these numbers suggest otherwise. I know there will be reasons for many of the losses but fact is now only wins will correct the situaton. Perhaps starting with tomorrow?

Christ, I didn't realise Wales' record was that bad against the big 3!

Interesting to think that they have a very good chance of winning the same amount in 4 weeks as they have in the last 13 years. Fingers crossed anyway!

True, but in a way it points to how poor England are in that they can beat the SH fairly regularly but then lose a lot to the lowly Wales. Does that point to some sort of mental block for you guys???

Bullsbok wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Griff wrote:

Bullsbok wrote:

The Saint wrote:Not sure what you're getting at? Just watch the Wales team play on Saturday then you can decide whether they're any good or not.

if i were gatland i would target etzebeth. he is a giant, but also an extremely loose cannon. the look in his eyes when something kicks off is scary. get him sin-binned or sent off and it would be game on. especially with the new scrum laws.

Just that qoute i seemed to find odd

Yep, that quote seems to come from Quins, an English poster  

indeed. etzebeth is the biggest strongest player on the SA side but the weakest mental link. i hardly think thats a controversial statement.

One yellow card in 20 odd test matches hardly makes him the weakest link compared to The Bismarck who's known for his temper and dishing out retribution illegally.

etzebeth v ben youngs
etzebeth reaction to hamilton
headbutt on sharpe

watch the videos and his face. that is not a man in control. i could care less how many yellows he has received, he is a volcano waiting to go off.

and my impression of bismarch retribution is that he knows exactly what he is doing...he's a mean player, but generally in control. correct me if i'm wrong i dont watch much super 15 rugby.

Griff wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:ok...this millenium- Wales vs the SH 3:

Played 41 won 2...others:
Eng: played 49...won 20
Ire: played 31...won 6
Scot: played 28 won 4
Fra: played 43, won 13
Ita: played 24, won 0.

Thats 2 out of 43 matches the 6N sides have won this millenium. Sure a large number are Englands earlier run but some of these are recent as well.

Any way you carve the numbers up a multiple 6N winning, heavy Lions contributing and one a winning side should have more wins than that. Its almost as out of kilter as the ABs were with the world cup pre 2011.

Theyre fully capable of winning tomorrow as well, but these numbers suggest otherwise. I know there will be reasons for many of the losses but fact is now only wins will correct the situaton. Perhaps starting with tomorrow?

Christ, I didn't realise Wales' record was that bad against the big 3!

Interesting to think that they have a very good chance of winning the same amount in 4 weeks as they have in the last 13 years. Fingers crossed anyway!

True, but in a way it points to how poor England are in that they can beat the SH fairly regularly but then lose a lot to the lowly Wales. Does that point to some sort of mental block for you guys???

points to the fact that england v wales is a bigger match for the welsh than the english, and the welsh rise to occasion more significantly than the english. england v aus/nz/SA/Fra are our big matches which we always believe can have a chance of winning no matter how dire out recent performances...viz last year. wales need to get some self belief, whenever you get close to beating a SH team it always looks so incredible nervy towards the end.

quinsforever wrote:

Griff wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:ok...this millenium- Wales vs the SH 3:

Played 41 won 2...others:
Eng: played 49...won 20
Ire: played 31...won 6
Scot: played 28 won 4
Fra: played 43, won 13
Ita: played 24, won 0.

Thats 2 out of 43 matches the 6N sides have won this millenium. Sure a large number are Englands earlier run but some of these are recent as well.

Any way you carve the numbers up a multiple 6N winning, heavy Lions contributing and one a winning side should have more wins than that. Its almost as out of kilter as the ABs were with the world cup pre 2011.

Theyre fully capable of winning tomorrow as well, but these numbers suggest otherwise. I know there will be reasons for many of the losses but fact is now only wins will correct the situaton. Perhaps starting with tomorrow?

Christ, I didn't realise Wales' record was that bad against the big 3!

Interesting to think that they have a very good chance of winning the same amount in 4 weeks as they have in the last 13 years. Fingers crossed anyway!

True, but in a way it points to how poor England are in that they can beat the SH fairly regularly but then lose a lot to the lowly Wales. Does that point to some sort of mental block for you guys???

points to the fact that england v wales is a bigger match for the welsh than the english, and the welsh rise to occasion more significantly than the english. england v aus/nz/SA/Fra are our big matches which we always believe can have a chance of winning no matter how dire out recent performances...viz last year. wales need to get some self belief, whenever you get close to beating a SH team it always looks so incredible nervy towards the end.

Pretty much what Quins wrote.

Wales haven't beaten Australia for 5 years.
Wales have only ever beaten SA once.
Wales haven't beaten New Zealand for over half a century.

Quite clearly a mental block with the weight of history. Six Nations level - Wales are fine, more than fine infact. Above that? Absolutely nothing.

Only solution is to draw a line on what's gone before for Wales, and go again. Beat Australia, and, at the very least, give South Africa a fright this autumn. Certainly have the players to do just that.

quinsforever wrote:points to the fact that england v wales is a bigger match for the welsh than the english, and the welsh rise to occasion more significantly than the english. england v aus/nz/SA/Fra are our big matches which we always believe can have a chance of winning no matter how dire out recent performances...viz last year. wales need to get some self belief, whenever you get close to beating a SH team it always looks so incredible nervy towards the end.

Still lovin' the excuses . Hate to break it to you but for me, they aren't that big a scalp nowadays. We keep beating them coupled with the fact that they hardly win cups is probably the reasons for that.

Then a real lack of professionalism for the English, if they can't be bothered to put the effort in to beat those supposedly below them?!

To be honest with you I'm biting and joshing to have a bit of fun. I'm not really a WUM. But if you still think the Welsh only get up for the English then you're living in the late 90s and early 2000s which, judging by a lot of posters on here, is not really that uncommon.

Duty281 wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Griff wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:ok...this millenium- Wales vs the SH 3:

Played 41 won 2...others:
Eng: played 49...won 20
Ire: played 31...won 6
Scot: played 28 won 4
Fra: played 43, won 13
Ita: played 24, won 0.

Thats 2 out of 43 matches the 6N sides have won this millenium. Sure a large number are Englands earlier run but some of these are recent as well.

Any way you carve the numbers up a multiple 6N winning, heavy Lions contributing and one a winning side should have more wins than that. Its almost as out of kilter as the ABs were with the world cup pre 2011.

Theyre fully capable of winning tomorrow as well, but these numbers suggest otherwise. I know there will be reasons for many of the losses but fact is now only wins will correct the situaton. Perhaps starting with tomorrow?

Christ, I didn't realise Wales' record was that bad against the big 3!

Interesting to think that they have a very good chance of winning the same amount in 4 weeks as they have in the last 13 years. Fingers crossed anyway!

True, but in a way it points to how poor England are in that they can beat the SH fairly regularly but then lose a lot to the lowly Wales. Does that point to some sort of mental block for you guys???

points to the fact that england v wales is a bigger match for the welsh than the english, and the welsh rise to occasion more significantly than the english. england v aus/nz/SA/Fra are our big matches which we always believe can have a chance of winning no matter how dire out recent performances...viz last year. wales need to get some self belief, whenever you get close to beating a SH team it always looks so incredible nervy towards the end.

Pretty much what Quins wrote.

Wales haven't beaten Australia for 5 years.
Wales have only ever beaten SA once.
Wales haven't beaten New Zealand for over half a century.

Quite clearly a mental block with the weight of history. Six Nations level - Wales are fine, more than fine infact. Above that? Absolutely nothing.

Only solution is to draw a line on what's gone before for Wales, and go again. Beat Australia, and, at the very least, give South Africa a fright this autumn. Certainly have the players to do just that.

Agree completely. I'm not drawing anything from the numbers other than they just need to win, and soon. The figures not only look bad, they just look wrong. Theyre certainly good enough and can beat the boks tomorrow. Gats will know of the stats as hes been part of a lot of them. How he gets his side up for this will be interesting. How he uses the winning mindset from the recent Lions tour here is equally important, and very relevant.

Griff wrote:Then a real lack of professionalism for the English, if they can't be bothered to put the effort in to beat those supposedly below them?!

To be honest with you I'm biting and joshing to have a bit of fun. I'm not really a WUM. But if you still think the Welsh only get up for the English then you're living in the late 90s and early 2000s which, judging by a lot of posters on here, is not really that uncommon.

That's just the way it seems. Why can't Wales play against the "big 3" the same way that they did against England earlier in the year?

There must be a reason. You'd probably beat Australia and maybe even South Africa playing like that.

We often do play that well against the big 3. But lately that level of performance has still led led to narrow losses, such is the step up from England to the top 3. It's was good enough to win by a margin against England this year, but not to topple the others. I know that sounds like a wind up, but it's true. We played no better that day against England than we did against SA in the word cup or the 3 out of the 5 games against Oz where we were winning until the last couple of minutes. Perhaps more an off day for England recently than an amazing Wales performance?

Back then it was on, we had the chance to regain the title after having a dismal autumn. Would love to explain the record against the big 3 (joubert anyone?), but for the most part we haven't been good enough to win when it boils down to the occassion.

Griff wrote:Then a real lack of professionalism for the English, if they can't be bothered to put the effort in to beat those supposedly below them?!

To be honest with you I'm biting and joshing to have a bit of fun. I'm not really a WUM. But if you still think the Welsh only get up for the English then you're living in the late 90s and early 2000s which, judging by a lot of posters on here, is not really that uncommon.

i'm not wumming either. i grew up 200m from the old arms park! would deeply love to see Wales win a world cup. and if i'm honest i think they will never have a better chance than 2015 with this group of players...minus phillips, and assuming RP can really blossom a la sexton in terms of game control and tactical awareness. i think that 6N has historically been a bigger focal point for wales and ireland precisely because there was a nagging belief that 6N was the level they could be competitive. both lacked the historical self-belief in a RWC context. so yes some of it's being motivated by playing against england, but some of it was also viewing the 6N as the apogee.

i think an excess of professionalism, and a slight lack of passion, or lack of a sense of occasion is more the criticism i would level at england against wales last year for example.

Griff wrote:We often do play that well against the big 3. But lately that level of performance has still led led to narrow losses, such is the step up from England to the top 3. It's was good enough to win by a margin against England this year, but not to topple the others. I know that sounds like a wind up, but it's true. We played no better that day against England than we did against SA in the word cup or the 3 out of the 5 games against Oz where we were winning until the last couple of minutes. Perhaps more an off day for England recently than an amazing Wales performance?

1 - Well I would say England are ahead of Australia, slightly behind South Africa, and behind New Zealand. If you can beat England, you should be able to beat Australia and worry the Saffers. After all, Wales are the only team to heave beaten England in the last 9 games.

2 - Well I do remember England's second half in that game being absolutely diabolical. Probably the worst half of Lancaster's reign thus far. The intensity of the Welsh was a joy to behold though.

Since 2011 theyve gone very close in just about every match- the diffs...1,3,6,8, 2, 1, 23 and 2 so thats 6 or 7 they could have won so its really just a mater of closing out in tight situations to get them out of this rut.

The above is quite compelling actually and if anything this Welsh side is possibly stronger now still. Be very wary the Boks, an overdue win for Wales is certainly on the cards...cant wait for this one...

Quins: I'd agree that the 6N is Wales' focus. If it's not England's then fair enough, we can't help that and it's none of our business (although it's a convenient excuse to use when you're not winning it much lately). But then it's the tournament itself that gives the disparity in motivation, not the different motivations of Wales and England towards each other that you suggested. By your logic, saying that the 6N is Wales focus', them maybe that's why they haven't beaten the 3N much - it's not their focus, whereas it is for England. Same logic, different application.

For me, Ireland and Wales seems just as big a rivalry these days. I think the players get up for that just as much.

Griff wrote:Quins: I'd agree that the 6N is Wales' focus. If it's not England's then fair enough, we can't help that and it's none of our business (although it's a convenient excuse to use when you're not winning it much lately). But then it's the tournament itself that gives the disparity in motivation, not the different motivations of Wales and England towards each other that you suggested. By your logic, saying that the 6N is Wales focus', them maybe that's why they haven't beaten the 3N much - it's not their focus, whereas it is for England. Same logic, different application.

For me, Ireland and Wales seems just as big a rivalry these days. I think the players get up for that just as much.

they certainly will get up for Ireland Wales this year

More posters have read through the 10 debate and realised that there are quite a few of us who are not going to follow the rest and agree with gatlands choice.

I love it that the coaches don't agree with posters view point. who cares luckless that the coaches don't agree with us? we're not following them to support a populist view. Thats too easy. if you are all wrong then you are all wrong together , so that makes it ok??? be brave like the biggar supporters, don't think they must be right because they are the chosen ones in charge.
Hasn't done much for our record against the worlds best , hasn't done anything apart from show sheer bloody mindedness where rp is concerned, over and over again.

Yeah, certainly looking forward to Ireland vs Wales this season . I'd love to see us keep an unbeaten record against the other 4 too, France and England especially as they're likely to be the next best teams. I don't think Italy or Scotland will be able to beat us in Cardiff. There'll be talk of it being the 'banana skin/dark horse' as per but I don't see what they'll be doing differently to what they've done the last the 2 or 3 tournaments.

am excited to watch the game tomorrow. much more than the Eng Arg match. SA may be #2 in IRB rankings but Wales feel like based on potential, they should be 3 or 4.

lets hope its a cracker and Wales carry the day.  

You guys put far too much emphasis on the rankings.

The rankings is flawed in its design.

We don't play the same opponents every year, we don't play the same venues, we don't play the same conditions.

Above all the rankings are influenced when teams are at different rankings when we play each other.

You don't need rankings to tell you whether you can beat a team or not.

Each of you have the evidence of whether your team can beat another by way of results.

England and Wales are both due a win against SA, England hasn't beaten SA for ten atches, Wales hasn't beaten SA for 13 matches. At home bith teams come close most of the time, even sometimes away from home.

Either team therefor will eventually beat us. Once you bea a team once, you try doing it twice and then consistently.

The rankings mean squat. It doesn't tell you whether you can or should beat a team.

They're only ever a guide but can have practical value in deciding pool positions in the same way tennis uses it for its seedings. But like Serena Williams is rarely ranked no.1 for her grand slam only approach there's no doubting who the better player usual is.
In rugby the SH 3 are usually going to remain top 3 and the 6N 4-9 because of the higher rate of playing within those groups. The odd crossover win...such as england over NZ and oz is what nudges them above oz, who arent winning in the RC. Argie will power up the list when and if they start beating the SH 3 because of that connection have the most potential.

Good luck today Wales - hope it's a cracking game and that you enjoy a good victory and many beers.

Good luck Wales, just not too much.

How did this turn into a Wales vs England thread?

Jhamer25 wrote:Interesting article:
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-south-africa-how-6286068

Did anyone else notice that many of the boks seemed to have black eyes or facial injuries....that's the boks for you...

Not sure Wales606, partly my fault. Sorry!

I have to say though that this thread has been a pleasure. 10 pages and generally good discussion and banter. We usually struggle to keep this sort of thread from descending into wummery, so kudos to all involved!

Have a good game Wales and SA. I'm obviously hoping for a Wales win. I don't think we will just based on SA's upwards trajectory over the last few years and Wales' inability to go the extra yard and beat an SH team and also that we don't seem (IMO) to have progressed that much in the last few years (where SA have). We haven't regressed either, but I think SA may have opened a wider gap than perhaps existed between us a couple of years back in the AIs.

Overall though I just don't want us to capitulate and get a hammering. Memories of the 98 point drubbing still lurk at the back of my mind somewhere. I'm 100% positive that won't happen. Just want a close game and to gain a bit of respect from the opposition.

Apparently there's around 8000 tickets to sell. Time for prices to drop really. Also, for games they aren't going to sell out, why not give more away to worthwhile charities for raffles or sites like Tickets For Troops like the SRU do.

One thing I will say, is I assume there is going to be a silence for Remembrance Day today, so I hope it's better respected than the last time I went to the same game (though it was 5 years ago)

Good luck Wales - no doubt in my mind that you can beat the mighty Boks!  

Really struggling to call this game. On paper, it is probably a narrow South Africa win.

However, a lot depend on how well Wales start - first game of the Autumn, if they are rusty, they will be in trouble. Equally, SA were excellent in their last game, but have fluctuated wildly on the road - particularly when their pack is taken on by the Argentinians.

This game will be easier to call 10 minutes in when he see which team has turned up to play, for both sides.

Head - SA by 4
Heart - Wales by 6

I think it all depends on who hits their straps.

If Wales play poorly then they will lose, if SA play poorly they will lose.

Nervously awaiting the match.

It certainly is one of the strongest set of forwards I've seen us play against. These Bokke guys are so strong in the maul and tackle area.

Quite an entertaining 1st 10 mins, I know I should stop beig shocked but how bad is that pitch?

What a bloody try

Pathetic from George. Didn't know we had a player down either. Ah well .

That was awful defense.

Shaun Edwards is going to go mental

Think there was a Welsh player down which gave SA the mismatch

geeez...if that try didnt make a statement...

Not good news for us if Beck has to come on for Davies. There goes our chances.

Great try. Good running. Good support. Good hands.

George north got burned though.

Ouch Liam Williams took a bang, shame for the lad hope he's ok

Davies off,

huge huge blow.

Big uphill slope now

And Davies too, not a good few mins for you guys

Here comes the big maul./...